the hell with the westminster dog show

[rdking647]

the westminster dog show chose a winner that they proclaim "americas dog". but the dog show dropped pedigree as a sponsor becasue they didnt like the "sad ads" showing shelter dogs behind bars. Maybe is the WKC and the AKC didn't breed and sell purebreds when there are so manu homeless dogs in shelters there wouldnt be a need for a "sad ad". every purebred dog bought is one less rescued from a shelter.
I put a similar post on westminsters facebook page. the deleted it and blocked me. I guess "americas dog" organization doesnt like the american idea of free speech.

[edhopper]

1. The way the AKC

continue to inbreed dogs just for their appearance, irregardless of the many medical complications they cause is sin. The dog that one will have severe breathing problems because the AKC decided that their face needs to be as flat as possible, no matter how it affects the animals health.
Get a mix breed, they are better dogs.

[rdking647]

3. the AKC should be banned or breeders should be taxed enough to completely fund every animal shelter

frankly in my mind anyone who spends hundreds of dollars on a pure bred is an idiot. I have 3 shelter dogs. they are the best dogs. And healthier than purebred "AKC" dogs

[renie408]

7. I have to confess...

we have three purebred, registered GSD's. I just love the breed. I have had shelter dogs and rescue dogs my whole life. Then ten years ago we were contacted by a local GSD rescue that needed to find a home for a 4 yr old spayed female who had been having a hard time being placed. They had tried her in three other homes, but she was too neurotic and kept getting returned to the rescue. They told me that if she didn't find a home that she could fit into, they were going to have to regretfully euthanize her. So, we took her. We lease a huge farm and she could basically just hang out there. Long story short, she went from being a crazy dog that was so afraid of her own shadow that no one could get near her to being the best dog I have ever had. She was my shadow. No matter where I went or what I was doing, she was always right there. Even when she got old and had a neurological problem that began to make it hard for her to get around, she would always position herself where she could keep an eye on me. I had her put down last spring and I still get teary eyed just writing about her.

We bought a GSD puppy for my daughter in '05 and that dog sleeps on the floor at the foot of my daughter's bed and if we go in to check on her at night, she will bark at even us. We bred her at two and kept two of her sons. Right now I have two 90 lb male GSD's laying within about six feet of me. They are my constant companions and just the BEST dogs. We have had many, many shelter and rescue dogs that we loved and that were also great dogs, but I have to say that I truly enjoy my pure bred German Shepherds. Ours are NOT 'American' GSD's, BTW. I don't like the American AKC breed standard with the dramatically sloped topline and narrow heads. We have Hungarian bred dogs and they are stouter, broader through the head, have a more level topline and steadier temperament than the American version typically has. Hungarians will also throw a longer coated version and my personal dog, Stanley, has that longer, plush coat.

Ok, as you can see...I likes me some dogs.

[GoCubsGo]

21. Good for you!

GSDs are my favorite breed. I think what has been done to the breed here is disgusting. And, the animals are suffering for it. Thank you for not contributing to that. And, FWIW, I am appalled at what has been done to some cat breeds, too. Persians didn't start out with those pushed-in faces, and Siamese cats used to be stocky. And, don't get me started on the "Munchkin" breed.

[renie408]

30. We train horses...

and for some of the reasons that go into the screwing up of dogs, we avoid 'breed' shows for horses, as well. We show hunter/jumpers in shows where ribbons are based on performance, not adherence to a breed standard. You can screw up anything breeding for superficial, conformational traits which can be faddish. The Quarter Horse was nearly ruined because they began doing a lot of breeding for massive bulk without thought to performance. Because nobody was really paying attention back in the late '70's and early '80's, they didn't notice that the lines that were throwing the huge bulk were also throwing tiny feet and metabolic disorders. Now you have generations of Quarter Horses with HYPP (potassium processing disorder) and that are extremely prone to carb sensitivity and navicular syndrome (a condition of the feet which oftentimes effects horses that are bulky and have smallish, upright feet). Right now we are fighting a case of laminitis in one of our boarded Quarter horses. The little bit of spring grass that is growing too soon because of the mild winter we have had has thrown his system into overload. It is some shit when a horse can't eat a normal amount of grass without risking death.

[magical thyme]

46. same here. It is criminal what is done in the name of winning ribbons at breed shows.

There is the popular quarter horse line that can't grow correct collagen and die horrific, early deaths as their skin literally falls off.

Breed associations are disgusting it seems with every animal. There are canary breeding associations that breed birds with too fancy feathers to fly, bred into terrible upright positions so they can't perch properly, nervous, frightened little birds. It's very, very sad. Criminal.

My rescue arabian was bred for halter. Based on certain behavior issues, we believe he may have had his tail gingered to make him carry it highter...or even had a cattle prod used on him. His grandfather was so effed up and afraid of men that when they sold him, he panicked and took apart the horse trailer. Then refused to let a veterinarian near him. They ended up calling a dog officer to shoot him.

[renie408]

61. That's the 'park horse' influence in the Arabian.

One of the best, most level headed, bravest, least spooky horses I ever owned was an American Saddlebred mare. She died of a brain tumor at 20 about five years ago. I still miss that mare and would take her over all the GD warmblood X's we have in the barn today...added together. But ask most people and they will tell you that Saddlebreds are silly and crazy. And a lot of them are. But that's because for too long they bred them for that LOOK, instead of for performance. So in ASB's you have problems with lordosis and pasterns so long as to be barely functional. Also, since in all breeds that have turned to the park horse show model (Morgans, Arabs and ASB's come to mind), they have gone so far for that high head and bright appearance that they ignored the fact that horses that are high headed and bright are usually scared of something and bred a bunch of horses that spook at their own shadows.

The ASB mare I had was bred from much older, foundation bloodlines than a lot of the ones I was seeing in the mid 80's. She was as solid as a rock and you could have driven a truck between her front legs. So much for ASB's being narrow! And she jumped like a deer, would literally go off the side of a cliff into a swollen river if I asked her too and was gorgeous to look at on top of all that.

God, I miss that mare!!

[Missy Vixen]

71. It sounds like you have wonderful dogs!

When I was still single, one of my roommates had a German Shepherd. Did Kahlua sleep in his room? Oh, no. He slept on the floor at the foot of my bed. Every night.

We have a wonderful chocolate Lab who is most comfortable sleeping in his crate, but I still remember Kahlua.

I hope you'll have many more happy years with your pups. One thing's for sure, German Shepherds steal your heart!

[Progressive dog]

81. Yea GSD's

Have to confess that while we've only had one dog at a time, they have been GSD's. The one we have now is from a GSD rescue and had been picked up as a stray and placed in a kill shelter before the Rescue saved him.

It is possible to get almost any breed from a rescue if you don't insist on a puppy or a dog with papers.

[MH1]

64. it screams "ego" to me when I see someone walking an obviously intensely bred dog.

Maybe that's just me though.

[get the red out]

4. The Collie BoB

The Rough Collie that won best of breed was sired by a blind and deaf dog that was created that way specifically to sire blue merle pups. The breeder of his sire bred two merle collies together, KNOWING the fact that if any of the pups actually survived to birth that they would at least be deaf or blind and likely both; he ended up being the only pup in the litter and both blind and deaf. No matter, anything to get that stunning look, right? Living, suffering dog be damned. And this was rewarded since this poor dog's progeny took best of breed. Of course he was beaten out by the GSD (that appeared to be barely able to trot from his back end being so sloped) for Herding Group.

http://www.doggiestylish.com/store/blog/2012/02/disturbing-news-from-westminster/

I'm very happy with my mutt. I love dogs, so I sometimes watch dog shows, but the constant breeding for exaggerated, physical traits causes such damage to animals I think of as quite precious. It's cruelty.

[rdking647]

6. its time for dog shows to go away.......

[hamsterjill]

32. +1

Well said! Ditto! So true!

With dogs being put down in almost every major metropolitan city in the United States EVERY DAY, the emphasis needs to be on finding homes for those already in existence; not promoting the breeding and increase in number so that more can be euthanized.

[renie408]

8. OH! I know! That's the American AKC standard for GSD's!

As mentioned in my post above, we have Hungarian bred GSD's. They are built differently and are more of a working dog. It seems to me that the AKC's goal is to take perfectly good dog breeds and ruin them by forming bizarre and exaggerated versions of the original conformation.

I love the GSD breed, but don't like the sloped topline, narrow head and overly huge ears of the American AKC bred dog. The AKC recognizes our dogs for registration, but they are bred from stock imported from Hungary.


edited to repair the Freudian slip of spelling 'dog' 'god'

[get the red out]

20. GSD buddy

A good friend has a young GSD (my Aussie-mix's best buddy) and I told her that I would take her dog over the group winner any time because at least he can run! His back end isn't exaggerated and it took her a while to find a pup like that.

I SERIOUSLY doubt any police force would go looking for pups from a lot of these show GSDs for real work. So very sad.

[renie408]

36. They don't any more. That's why you see so many Belgian Malinois

being used for police work. Nobody in the American GSD breeding scene was paying attention to the fact that riding along with the conformational weirdness they were going for was some unstable temperament issues. So when they bred for that certain conformation, they ended up also breeding into a lot of the American lines aggressiveness problems, neurosis, blah blah blah. It makes American bred GSD's sometimes too excitable for police work. You usually see European bred GSD's or Malinois these days.

[Hun Joro]

76. I have a belgian. I found her as a starving, flea-ridden discarded puppy.

She was six months old when people started telling me she looked like a Belgian Malinois.She might be a mix, but she looks exactly like one. One of her front legs is a bit deformed so I think a backyard breeder tossed her out as unsaleable. She's a smart, loyal, beautiful girl.

[OriginalGeek]

91. God is unconditional love

You had it right the first time.

[unionworks]

10. In the late 70s

A second generation British family that bred English (not American, totally different) Staffordshires gave me a pup. These were the REAL English bulldogs. They do dot have the flat wrinkled face, they are powerful athletic animals that make loyal devoted family members for a special type of owner. The modern English bulldog, is a "cull",if I use the correct term. It has been bred strictly for appearance, as you say, and has had it's heart and soul bred out of it. Along with paying for it's appearance with myriad health problems.

[lapislzi]

27. Agreed about inbreeding and ridiculous breed standards.

Some of the smaller breeds would be extinct without outside intervention due to their deep chests and other artificially imposed standards. Pugs, for example, have been overbred to the point of being unable to properly mount.

That's silly.

But there's also good in dog breeding and maintaining good lines. When you buy a purebred dog from a reputable breeder, you can pretty much know what to expect. And, a responsible dog breeder will accept any puppy back for any reason. They don't want their dogs (and their hard work) going anywhere but to an ideal home.

I've always had rescue dogs, and a few were purebred, consigned to shelters because their "owners" couldn't "handle" them.

Read up on dog breeds before making your selection Know what you're getting into. My Jackies (how I miss them!) were NOT suited to apartment life, and wound up in the pound after chewing up their dumb human's couch. On my 27 acres, they were happy as could be, chasing horses and bunnies all day.

A responsible dog breeder would have spoken to the apartment-dwelling human and suggested a different breed (or no dog at all).

[Snake Alchemist]

2. As long as the AKC continues to not recognize the Japanese Akita Inu then I will have nothing to do

with them or anyone involved with them.

[unionworks]

5. K&R

Keep up the good work. 30 years ago adopted a beautiful german shepherd from a shelter. You don't need a piece of paper to get a wonderful animal.

[lonestarnot]

9. K & R!

[renie408]

11. I think you are onto something...

in this economic climate it may also have occurred to the AKC that encouraging people to RESCUE dogs as opposed to purchasing a purebred dog might not be a good idea for their breeders. Maybe even some of the breeders themselves complained.

[GoCubsGo]

12. Wow.

That's just effed up. "America's Dog", as in the one that won their "Best in Show" does not look anything like a dog, so on that level, I guess this shouldn't surprise anyone.

[get the red out]

26. Peke

One of my favorite dogs when I was a little girl back in the early 70s was a Peke that belonged to the little old lady who had been my Kindergarten teacher. She was a friend of my Grandmother and we would visit her sometimes. That little dog would move around the house with ease and come trotting up to greet visitors and beg for affection. She was a much different dog from the almost lifeless winner that could barely seem to move, and I think it is more than all that fur.

[GoCubsGo]

35. I used to dog-sit a couple of Pekes.

They were mother and son, and they looked nothing like that dog, either. I loved 'em to death. Even when Mom was old and decrepit, she moved better than Mr. "Best in Show".

Quite frankly, I would love it had Martha Stewart's chow chow, Ghengis Khan, had won Best in Show--just to see all the different heads explode. He IS a gorgeous doggie, though, and won best of his breed.

[get the red out]

56. I agree

Her Chow is a really pretty dog!

[truth2power]

13. You've stated it exactly as it should be said....

These people are repugnant.

Many years ago my husband and I had German Shepherds (yes, pure-bred). We took them through obedience training and participated in obedience competitions.

The conformation people that we encountered were only interested in appearance and would say things like, "I wouldn't even feed that dog. It's ears are droopy," or something similar.

Both of our German Shepherds eventually were crippled by hip dysplasia, which is a consequence of shepherds being bred for a long, low rump; the better to pose them in the ring. For conformation people, appearance is all.

The two dogs I have now are both mixed breeds.

One additional point. There needs to be continued emphasis on spay/neuter.

[rdking647]

15. every pet should be spayed or neutered

[renie408]

18. ???

And where are we going to get pets in twenty years if we spay and neuter ALL of the ones around now? Yeah, I believe in reducing the population of unwanted animals out there, but spaying and neutering 'every' pet doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Four years ago we decided to breed our female German Shepherd Dog. We really loved her size, her temperament and her athletic ability. We did some research and found a nice, Hungarian bred GSD to breed her to and had a single litter. Out of seven puppies, we kept two. It was a great experience for my kids at the time and we now have a wonderful family of dogs, two of which we raised from birth.

[CAPHAVOC]

14. My Dog is a Mutt I got at the pound. She wins for me.

[rdking647]

16. i have 3 pound puppies

i would never consider getting one from a breeder.
as it says on my car


Dont shop. Adopt

[truth2power]

19. You know those magnetic paw prints people have on their cars? I saw one

that said, "Tell me the truth. Am I adopted?"

Haven't been able to find one like that.

[rdking647]

24. try here,althoug i never used them

http://www.grreat.org/store/magnets_stickers.htm

[truth2power]

89. Thanks.I saw the 'adopted' one. Maybe I'll order it. n/t

[CAPHAVOC]

25. Mine is a Chi mix.

But she acts like a retriever. Loves to run and fetch. I give her a Cherio and she does a flip.

[lapislzi]

17. As the companion of a rescue dog...

I must respectfully disagree.

A friend who was a respected and successful show dog breeder once said that it's impossible to be a responsible dog breeder and make money. Raising dogs responsibly and well costs money.

The problem lies not with breeders of good lines and show dogs. These are responsible people, by and large, who love dogs and care deeply about preserving healthy dogs and maintaining good standards for their breeds. There are many reasons why a purebred dog is a good choice, but that's for another thread.

When purebred dogs end up in shelters or rescue agencies, it's often the result of poor breeding and/or puppy mills. My breeder friend would not hesitate to take back a puppy that didn't "work out" with its family. Good breeders want to match their pups with people who can care for them to the breeder's own standard. Pups that would be disqualified from a show ring are given the same care and treatment in placing them with families as would any would-be champion.

We can lament the ostentation of dog shows and the ridiculous extremes certain breed standards have been taken to (pugs can't mate)...but this is less a cause for ire than people who care less about dogs than they do about making a buck.

PETA et al need to throw their energy behind closing down puppy mills. And I can speak from experience when I say that the love of a rescue dog is like no other. My flat-coated retriever was likely the product of a puppy mill and was found abandoned on the banks of the Ohio River when his "owner" was in jail.

[renie408]

22. +1

[Upton]

29. Pugs can mate just fine..

We've had any number of them for some 20 years. Right now, I have two females...both we bought up near Olympia from responsible breeders, who had both the sire and dam on hand. We also had a couple litters of pug pups back in the 90's ourselves..Now, these were pet quality pugs as opposed to show quality, but to just make a blanket statement like "pugs can't mate" is BS..

[renie408]

37. They are probably referring to the fact that many pugs, as well as Frenchies

have to have their puppies by C-section.

[lapislzi]

40. Apologies; I was misinformed.

I seem to recall reading a NYT article several years ago about purebreeds and crossbreeds. The article specifically mentioned pugs and the difficulties associated with breeding them. I understood from the article that the chests have been bred so deep and broad so as to prevent the male from mounting.

If this is incorrect, I'm rather glad of it. Far be it from me to deny the pug his pleasure!

[get the red out]

59. Bulldog

I'm pretty sure the Old English Bulldog can't mate easily for those reasons. Perhaps the author of the article got the two breeds confused.

[rdking647]

43. the can mate

but breeding has caused them to have breathing problems due to their pushed in faces. they have been bred for looks at the cost of their health

[glinda]

34. Well said. The fact there is only less than 1000 (was it) Otterhounds left in the

world, keeping the Breed alive and healthy is a good thing. Stricter rules needed on regular Breeders. Good Breeders wean out diseases and too flat faces, etc.... and all Mills need to be shuttered. The Mills are the problem. The pet stores that take them are a problem. The import of animals that are then sold are a problem. Ebay is a problem. I love dog shows. Some dogs love to show off. I loved the "Peke" even though it is not a breed or type that appeals to me personally. He was actually a fast Peke btw.
I have three rescues. One is a Springer from a Champion line that was abandoned. The breeder is a "small Mill". The other two are mixes. I love all dogs.

[lapislzi]

41. Eeeek, a fast Peke.

What a freak!

I couldn't detect any discernible canine traits in the Peke (ears? legs? tail?), but I'm not a dog show judge. I assume the woman knew what she was doing.

And I'm sure the Peke's owner loves him to pieces, and that's as it should be.

[glinda]

48. That was the first thing I noticed last year about him. Cindy (Judge) is a huge advocate for Soft

Coated Wheaten Terrier health also. I suspect that she was truly judging along those lines. That pup was in amazing shape because he walked farther and longer as well as had a bounce to his step and was fast compared to all the other Pekes I have seen on Westminster. I think that was very good for the health of the Breed that has a very long and strong Historical lineage. Wheatens also have had many illnesses introduced to them through stupidity and greedy breeding. It is a huge concern for Wheaten lovers. I being one of them and have had two Wheaten rescues.

[kiranon]

60. Had a wonderful Otterhound.

She was quite a dog and had been abandoned by her original owner. I got her from the pound. The groomer told me she was the finest otterhound he had ever seen but with so few of them not sure how many he had ever seen. She had been fixed so no puppies. I already had an Airedale and learned that the Airedale had been created out of a cross between an Otterhound and a black and tan terrier and perhaps a little bit of others. When they stood side by side, you could see the similarities but their personalities were very different. The Otterhound always treated the Airedale like he was a mistake of some kind. The Airedale just acted above it all. Both were great dogs. The Airedale was also a rescue dog.

[edhopper]

50. I have to disagree

it is the very standards of the AKC that make these dogs more and more unhealthy. The features that make them winners at a show like Westminster, also bring on untold medical problems. The best is show Peke, that is the epitome of that breed, will suffer from breathing problems it's whole, shortened life.

[lapislzi]

53. Breathing problems aren't new to shortened-muzzle animals

It is interesting to view older dog show footage to see how the breeds have evolved and been engineered. A great case is the cocker spaniel. My parents had a spaniel with what I'd consider a "normal" muzzle: we called it her "snoot." As the decades have passed, I am dismayed to see the muzzles on these dogs getting shorter and shorter. I no longer find them even cute.

I would agree with you that some breed standards aren't good for the dogs' overall health and longevity, but bull breeds have always had breathing problems (along with snoring and flatulence...)

Shortened-muzzle cats are just as susceptible to breathing issues. I remember attending a cat show years ago. An owner of a Persian that resembled an ottoman more than a cat was grousing to a friend about her animal failing to place. A judge overheard, and in clipped British tones remarked, "It's a cat, madam, not a Pekingese."

Responsible breeders, many of whom you WON'T see in the show ring, try hard to prevent congenital defects, and certainly aren't breeding freaks.

[glinda]

65. "many of whom you WON'T see in the show ring"

True but not always. Take Crufts where docking tails and over-grooming and pinching ears is rarely seen.

[lapislzi]

67. I hate docked ears and tails.

I wish the AKC would start disqualifying for performing mutilations on live animals. There is no reason for it, none, save the vanity of the "owner." It's cruelty, pure and simple.

Overgrooming is just...silly. I heard the commentators discussing the amount of mousse in a certain dog's pouf. My dog was cracking up on the floor. He said he never saw anything so silly, and he'd certainly never date it.

[glinda]

75. lol!!!!

[TwilightGardener]

23. If someone doesn't care what breed they own, pound mutts are great.

I always get my cats from the shelter, but get my dogs from breeders of specific breeds that appeal to me. I like to see the dog's parents, like to meet the breeder and see where the pups live, and I like to know what I'm getting, temperament wise--and I get them as puppies, so I can train them myself. I don't trust what other people do to their dogs. Don't want a biter, a dog that chews up the house, or a food-aggressive animal. (Speaking from past experience.)

[rdking647]

28. i do a lot of work at a shelter

we get tons of puppies.in all sizes

[TwilightGardener]

33. I used to volunteer at the Humane Society, I know that there are

lots of pups--however, where I live, the vast majority of the pups are mixes of four or five breeds: border collie or australian something-or-other, pit bull, chihuahua, labs, and german shepherds. I don't want any of those dog breeds. I have looked into pure-breed rescue, but my local one insists on fenced yards, which I find ridiculous. I think there's a place for responsible breeders. I admire certain dog breeds and want a well-bred and healthy one as a pet. I feel bad for homeless animals, but that doesn't make me beholden to other people's backyard accidents when they irresponsibly do not spay or neuter.

[rdking647]

42. a quick look at petfinder.com

for my area..

166 pages of dogs ranging from dachsund puppies to cockers to yorkies to mastiffs

[TwilightGardener]

62. Yep. I look at Petfinder, too. Most of the purebred dogs on there

where I live are in breed rescues, only a handful from local shelters--I don't like the way most breed-specific rescues run their adoptions. I will not have someone visit my house for an inspection, for example. That's ridiculous--they can meet me and my family when I go to adopt, they don't need to invade my privacy and judge my home or my yard. It's a pet dog, it's not a human baby, for chrissakes. I am not going to get a permit and spend serious $$ for an ugly-ass fence I don't want or need. Etc., etc. I won't rule them out, and I scoped the shelter offerings regularly the last time I got a dog--even visited a few. But in the end, I got my pup from a breeder, and I couldn't be happier with him, don't regret it one bit--and that's really the point. Regrets and mistakes lead to animals in shelters and rescues.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

66. It's not just about size.

There are so many breeds because they were bred for different purposes.

We needed a working dog to work cattle and a dog who would also make an affectionate companion. We bought a 6 week old Australian Shepherd pup from a breeder. She instinctively knew how to herd cattle, loves it and is with us 24/7. By the way, if she was useless with cattle we would still love her.

Over the years I have adopted five mixed breed dogs from the pound but sometimes you can't just hope the pup will be for the purpose you need it for. Dogs were bred for different purposes.

I think dog breeding (and horse breeding) should be regulated. Breeders should be made to purchase expensive licenses for a start. Something has to be done to stop the madness.

[lapislzi]

68. Exactly. We needed a medium-sized, gentle retriever

So we contacted a rescue organization and were matched with a rescue pup who met our needs. They didn't know if he's purebred or not, and we don't care--he's awfully close to the standard for the breed to which he's classified. And that's important if you want a pup that you can be reasonably confident will be good with kids or other pets.

Or can herd things, or bark, or any other things one might need a dog to do.

[PhoenixAbove]

31. K&R

Hate me for it but I see no season for having all these "breeds" when there are so many dogs in shelters needing homes. During the course of my life I have rescued four dogs... all of them mutts. I didn't keep all four but I can say without doubt they were some of the best friends I ever had. I don't think breeders love dogs at all. Quite the opposite. If they truly loved dogs, they'd be rescuing them from shelters.

[lapislzi]

45. You can hold two opinions; they are not mutually exclusive

You can respect responsible dog breeders for the work they do, while still holding to your principles of adopting only shelter dogs.

I know dog breeders and I can assure you they love their dogs to distraction.

Signs of a good breeder:
--Isn't running a zoo. Only keeps as many dogs as is practical, or that she can handle at once. Provides adequate space and comfortable surroundings suitable for the breed.
--Breeds responsibly. Doesn't breed dogs with congenital defects.
--Doesn't inbreed.
--Thoroughly vets (pun intended) potential homes for pups, whether pups are show-quality or not. Won't permit a pup to go to an unsuitable home.
--Will happily take back a pup that doesn't work out with its new home.
--Ensures proper medical care for all animals, including immunizations.
--Rarely keeps more than one or two breeds at a time. If she does, the "other" breeds are for personal companionship, not breeding.
--Doesn't "sell" to pet stores.
--Doesn't make any money on dogs. Any monies made are put right back into the care and feeding of dogs.

If you're making money on dogs, you're not a dog lover, and you're doing it wrong.

Actually, anyone with dogs should be doing the same thing. I had a pair of English bull terrier-mixes many years ago (we called them the "racing pigs&quot . We adopted them from a lady who hadn't intended to breed her bitch, but...accidents happen. She treated those mixed breed pups with as much love and care as any Westminster owner.

[KurtNYC]

38. the Westminster Dog Show is now an arcaic fantasy

In my experience show dogs do not live as long as their littermates who do NOT travel in RVs, airplanes and SUVs to be crated, groomed and judged like the canine versions of Jon Benet Ramsey. Purebred dog shows belong in some prior century.

Perhaps there should be alternate dogs shows where any hybrid breed dog can be awarded a prize for personality, training, condition (health) or other healthy standards.

[lapislzi]

49. Try watching dog trials

Dogs of all shapes and sizes run obstacle courses, dive into pools, and show off their abilities, not just their looks. The dogs seem to love it.

It's an interesting observation you've made about the travel and stress of dogs shows shortening a dog's life span. I hadn't considered that. But, most show dogs are retired from the ring after a few years. My breeder friend's English Bull Terriers lived lives of sex 'n leisure after their stints in the ring. If one of his dogs took a National Championship, he was immediately retired so another dog could have a chance.

*I* should have as good a life as Peter's dogs!

[TreasonousBastard]

39. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems the AKC gets around...

a third of its revenues from puppy mills. And then has the temerity to put on that freak show?


"<...>

In 2006, the AKC registered 870,000 individual dogs and 416,000 litters, and brought in $72 million dollars in total revenues. Well over $30 million in revenues were from dog registrations alone. Sadly, it is believed that 80% of this profit comes from puppy mills. At $20 a dog and $25 per litter (plus $2 per puppy) the AKC makes a pretty penny selling a piece of paper that really does nothing more than state that the dog the dog is a pure bred, or approved cross-bred (designer breed).

The AKC website quotes: “AKC registration means a dog, its parents, and its ancestors are purebred, but it does not indicate health or quality." The AKC takes no responsibility beyond that, nor do they guarantee that the dog didn’t come from unsatisfactory breeding conditions, such as a puppy mill. Again, quoting the AKC website, "Papers" DO NOT indicate quality or promise a healthy dog."

<...>

It was amazing how quick the “certification” process was, and another testament to how little energy goes into the AKC brand. It’s essentially a marketing scam that people buy into without thinking twice. Money is the name of the game, and if you have a $20 bill and a purebred dog, your dog basically has his diploma.

After all "Puppies with AKC papers fetch more owners", since "Nine out of ten consumers prefer AKC-registered puppies.” I learned this from an AKC print ad that came out in the August 2007 issue of “The Kennel Spotlight”, a highly popular magazine distributed at dog auctions across the Midwest.

<...>

http://network.bestfriends.org/initiatives/puppymills/news.aspx?pID=6508

[SwampG8r]

44. many fine dog breeds are also rescue dogs

my tasha is a rescued irish setter
every breed from a mutt to the snootiest pekinese has rescue needs
if you want a dog and are settled on a breed please do the research
petfinders.com has listings for every shape and size of dog
just add love

[lapislzi]

47. Hear, hear! (or, arf, arf!)

We have a rescue flat coated retriever. He embodies every personality quality of the breed and he is the love of my husband's life.

I've also had rescue Jack Russells (not the easiest breed; often found in shelters because they're too damned smart for their dumb humans) who were perfect in every way.

Biased? No, me never.

[SwampG8r]

51. i love my tasha and she loves me

she has every positive aspect of her breed and just enough bad hair to make her unshowable
funny thing is our town has a dog show as part of founders day
she has won best red dog 5 years running
smiliest dog 3 seperate times
thats a champion!
sometimes she puts her medals and ribbons on and shows off

[lapislzi]

54. Sir Codrick of Flumpton (aka, Kodi) won't be taking home Best In Show

but he's every bit the champion in our house and at the bark park, with his disqualifying white tummy. A chocolate doggie with a creamy center! Yum!

[Corgigal]

52. did you see the Pro Plan commerical that ran?

Look at this..its very moving, actually one of the best I've seen

[Odin2005]

55. Dog shows are for the vanity of the 1%.

They don't give a damn about the dogs, they are just a way to display conspicuous consumption.

[Missy Vixen]

70. Your comment just illustrates

you've never actually met anyone who owns a purebred as a pet.

"They don't give a damn about the dogs"? Please. They love their dogs as much or more than anyone else who owns a dog.

The Obamas own a purebred. Was that a way to "display conspicuous consumption" as well?

[Odin2005]

83. I mean the dog owners that do dogshows.

[Missy Vixen]

84. And your point?

The dogs aren't being injured or harmed in any fashion. Nobody's showing a dog that doesn't enjoy the applause and the attention. Those who make it to Westminster have been in scores of local shows, in which someone from the community can pay an admission fee, bring a lawn chair, and enjoy themselves seeing some fun-loving local pups. The people that attend also have the chance to chat with the Lab enthusiasts, for instance, about whether or not a Lab would be a good fit for their household.

Household pets are shown in every cat show we ever participated in or went to - in other words, non-pedigreed felines. Those owners can't wait to show off Fluffy to all admirers, too. It's fun for pet owners to talk with other pet owners.

I'm still wondering if you think the Obamas are bad people for owning a pedigreed dog.

[XemaSab]

90. The dogs aren't being harmed?

Can the Bulldog Be Saved?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/magazine/can-the-bulldog-be-saved.html?pagewanted=all

Pedigree Dogs Exposed

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pedigree-dogs-exposed/

[Missy Vixen]

94. Ooh. Thanks for enlightening me.

I'm not in charge of breed conformation. You'll have to take that up with the AKC and other governing bodies.

In the meantime, you and I both know damn well that every dog at Westminster is spoiled, doted on, and adored. If they weren't, they wouldn't have the temperament to be shown.

[LeftishBrit]

57. Oh, I thought you were talking about the British government...

[Arkansas Granny]

58. I'm with you. My favorite breed of dog is mixed. I just love mutts.

Too many dogs are bred to conformity with no consideration for their health and well-being. A pedigree isn't necessary in order to have a wonderful pet and companion.

[NeedleCast]

63. Never liked Westminster or the people who participate

Love my mixed breed rescue. She wont win any prizes except in loving her family and being a good dog.

[gaspee]

86. Thanks! I love you too!

[Missy Vixen]

69. Our Moose is a purebred rescue

I actually appreciated the comments of the Westminster Dog Show's broadcasting team on making sure each owner does his or her research on the pup that would be most appropriate for one's family situation. They also mentioned the breed research it's possible to do at the AKC website.

Moose came to live with us after I burst into tears during a Pedigree commercial while watching the Puppy Bowl three years ago. They work.

[/IMG]

[KamaAina]

72. News flash: Some of those shelter dogs are purebreds

So much for WKC's haughty "upholding the purebred ideal" crap.

[lapislzi]

79. Not all purebreds are show dogs.

Only a very small percentage.

Most responsibly bred purebreds go to loving homes who enjoy them as companions. Others, the pups deemed "show quality" by their breeders, go to people who want to show them. Most don't make the cut in the show ring, despite being true to type.

In a given litter of purebred pups, there are likely one or two whose markings or other traits render them ineligible for showing.

Personality traits that emerge later in a dog's adolescence can also make them unsuitable for the show ring. Anybody remember the Weimeraner from "Best in Show?"

I imagine it's very difficult to train a headstrong dog like a terrier for show competition. Did you ever try to get a Jack Russell to sit still?

When you rescue a shelter dog from a shelter or rescue organization, there's a good chance it's from a puppy mill with irresponsible breeding practices. Good breeders don't sell to pet stores; just so you know. And a good breeder will take back a puppy if it doesn't work out for you or your family. A good breeder will check up on the puppy well into its second year to ensure it's being looked after.

[KamaAina]

80. "Focused on the purebred mission" were the precise words Westminster used.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/nyregion/westminster-dog-show-parts-ways-with-pedigree-a-longtime-sponsor.html?_r=2&emc=eta1

“They’ve shared with us, when we parted ways, that they felt that our advertising was focused too much on the cause of adoption and that wasn’t really a shared vision,” she said. The kennel club, she said, is “focused on the purebred mission,” including the adoption of pure breeds as opposed to mixed breeds.

So maybe Pedigree should have shown purebreds behind bars?

[Arkansas Granny]

73. Just for the heck of it, here are pictures of 3 pekes who won in 1960, 1982 and 2012, respectively

1960 winner


1982 winner


2012 winner

I can't really tell of there are any big physical differences in these dogs or if it's all in the grooming, but they sure look a lot different to my untrained eye.

ETA: You can find a slide show of past winners here: http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/history/biswinners.html#gallery

[lapislzi]

77. The 1960 Peke at least bears some resemblance to a canine

Ears, feet, a tail. I daresay, cute even. But would that dog win today?

The rolling ottoman is no doubt beloved by its human, but I think the breed and show appearance standards, especially for the "extreme" breeds (anyone catch a gander at the Neapolitan Mastiff?) have become absurd.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

74. The German shepherd won the herding dog class!

What the hell is up with their hindquarters? They look like they have injured their backs! And why is this dog even in the herding group? Guarding maybe...but herding?

We ranch in an area where there are lots of cattle and I have never known anyone to have a German Shepherd as a cattle dog and I would think it would attack sheep.

Ranchers in these parts have Blue Heelers, Border Collies or Australian Shepherds. I have never heard of anyone using a German Shepherd for herding. They must be called "Shepherds" for a reason though. I thought they were police or military dogs.

Why are their backs sloping down and why do their back legs creep along like they are injured? It looks horrible.

[lapislzi]

78. Perhaps the Germans were misinformed.

The top lines and hindquarters on these dogs are absurd. They're not doing their breed or its continuing viability any favors by breeding to these extremes.

I would guess that half the pups from such litters would be culls. It's cruel to the dog and its eventual human to condemn it to a short and painful life due to inherited skeletal conditions.

I hope some sanity prevails and healthier breeding stock is introduced into the gene pool, and that the standards are revised to promote healthier animals.

[progressoid]

82. That is a point of contention.

My daughter and I agree, they look deformed.

From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd_Dog

The Kennel Club is currently embroiled in a dispute with German Shepherd breed clubs about the issue of soundness in the show-strain breed.[44] The show-strains have been bred with an extremely sloping back that causes poor gait and disease in the hind legs. Working-pedigree lines, such as those in common use as service dogs, generally retain the traditional straight back of the breed and do not suffer these problems to the same extent. The debate was catalyzed when the issue was raised in the BBC documentary, Pedigree Dogs Exposed, which said that critics of the breed describe it as "half dog, half frog". An orthopedic vet remarked on footage of dogs in a show ring that they were "not normal".

The Kennel Club's position is that "this issue of soundness is not a simple difference of opinion, it is the fundamental issue of the breed’s essential conformation and movement."[44] The Kennel Club has decided to retrain judges to penalize dogs suffering these problems.[45] It is also insisting on more testing for hemophilia and hip dysplasia, other common problems with the breed.

Breed clubs have typically responded that they feel they are being vilified for issues they were already aware of and attempting to address before the media storm erupted.[46]

- vs -

[gaspee]

85. So happy to see my liberal brethren

So eager to spew ignorance on a subject they have no knowledge of.

Newsflash - the problem *isn't* the small-time hobby breeder who participates in dogshows with their companions.

The problem is the idiot pet owners who won't spay and neuter their pets. The problem is also the overabundance of bully breeds in shelters that are unadoptable due to bad breeding and propaganda.

The problem is also the morons who buy a dog and then do not devote the time it takes to raise them properly. See this pic?

img:

This was taken at my house the morning before the WKC. See the woman on the bed with all the abused CH show dogs? If you watched the groups, you would have seen her in the ring in the non-sporting group the following night.

Every single person I know in shows spends way too much money on their dogs - they don't *make* money on them.

I will put the health and vigor of my 6 generations of health tested dogs against any other dog out there. I have a 16 year old going strong whose mother died last year at 17 1/2 years old.

Spay and neuter all dogs? Fucking genius. Some dog lover. Sure you're not a secret dog hater?

This thread is showing off just how ignorant people like to show off their ignorance.

I've done rescue for years and recently took a break from it because I'm sick of cleaning up other people's messes. None of them show breeders, BTW.

[Odin2005]

87. AWWWW!!!

Cute doggies!

[Missy Vixen]

92. Are they Shiba Inus?

I lost an entire month to the Shiba Inu puppy show on UStream a couple of years ago.

Every person I've ever met that bred and showed purebred dogs or cats lost money, too. People fly small planes, take up golf, scuba dive, and any number of other expensive hobbies. Showing a cat or dog is a hobby. They are (beloved and pampered) pets the other 99.9% of the time.

The pups on the bed with their friend are, obviously, miserable. I hope you'll have many more happy years with them!

[yourpicturehere]

88. garbage

I saw an Afghan Hound when I was five years old and told my mother I wanted one. She told me that purebreds were for rich people (she grew up EXTREMELY poor). I tell everyone that I don't have money, but I have my Afghans. I have had a 35-year love affair with this breed. I have bred 10 litters in this time and I know where every one of them is (or was, since many have died of old age).

I like purebreds because I KNOW what I am getting. I have also done rescue work for 35 years. We have a network that causes late nights and sleeplessness when we hear of an Afghan that needs rescue. Just got one of THOSE calls right before Westminster was due to start, and the dog is in rescue right now. I have also rescued other breeds and mixed breeds. The purebreds that one finds in shelter situations are usually bull breeds and Labs. They are usually NOT bred by show people.

I LOVE my dogs with a passion that small-minded people will never understand. This is a 24 hour job. I want them to run and play and have toys to play with and treats just because it makes them happy. I worry about them like I worry about my children. I don't show everything I breed and I don't breed everything I show. I health test my dogs. Bad temperaments are NOT allowed (and bad temperaments don't just happen with purebreds, I have met MANY insane mutts). Dogs that don't like the shows (some don't) aren't forced to show. OTOH, I have a male right now that has a fit if he doesn't get to go and he drags me to the ring. He thinks he is wonderful, and so do I. Purebreds have to be stable because they are expected to have manners and allow a stranger to touch them all over. They are socialized at an early age and that takes time and work.

My dogs still have the instinct to hunt, because that is what they were bred for, because, you see, they come from Afghanistan and they had to earn their keep in a land that has been the crossroads for conflict for centuries. I WANT them to keep the instinct because that is what makes them what they are.

That all being said, responsible Afghan breeders are very careful about where their puppies go, because this is not a breed for everyone. They will kill cats. They will escape. They can jump six feet straight up with no running start. Anyone that is going to get this breed needs to be prepared for this. We are often though of as snobs because we won't let just anyone have one of our dogs. All dogs have some little quirks that endear them to the people that love them and that would drive others nuts. Oh, and Afghans act like cats. They decide when and where they get attention. Some people can't stand that affront to the ego.

I do this because of the extreme love I have for this breed. I am against anything that changes the ancient breed they are. I am the 99%, but I have made sacrifices for the dogs I love. Most dog show exhibitors are everyday people. They have bills and jobs and families. (Try explaining to your mother that Thanksgiving will have to be postponed for a dog show. Mine just deals with it now.)

I have been left jobless and penniless and have taken care of the kids and dogs. I have taken back dogs. I have paid tremendous vet bills to save my beloved dogs and I have put them down when they no longer had quality of life. They have been my saviors when my life turned to shit because, like all dogs, they ALWAYS love me. I am responsible for them. All puppies born here are ALWAYS MY puppies and they always will be.

The next best thing about dog shows is the friends-for-life that I have made. People that will do anything for me and I for them. The tolerance shown for all walks of life could be a lesson for the rest of the world. IF YOU ARE A RESPONSIBLE BREEDER, you are accepted, no matter what your affiliations. Gay, black, wiccan...whatever.

Go ahead and flame me. I will not reply. I have to take care of my dogs.

[Arugula Latte]

93. I don't like the glorification of purebred animals at that show

F@#$ breeders of dogs and cats. There are thousands of homeless animals who will be killed in shelters, and these people are making more of them, and the people who buy them are taking homes from shelter animals.