General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIdiocy on the internet, ash on my car, and the wildfire down the road. (update 6: 14,108 acres)
Last edited Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:39 PM - Edit history (3)
First, the wildfire isn't just down the road, it's about 20-25 miles away as the crow flies or about 40 miles by road.
For those who haven't yet heard, we're having quite the summer here in southern Nevada.
The wildfire to which I refer is labelled the Carpenter 1 fire and is now at almost 11,000 acres and 0% contained. 10,935 acres to be "exact." That's up from the 9,031 acres that was reported yesterday and 2,000 acres reported just a few days ago. It's been growing by leaps and bounds. Here's the INCIWeb link: http://www.inciweb.org/unit/43/
About 520 people and their pets have been evacuated from two communities; one on the "Vegas side" of the mountain and the other on the "Pahrump side" of the mountain.
As of these reports, no property or human lives lost. I can't speak to the wild life on the mountain.
A link to a .pdf that shows the general area of the Spring Mountains/Mt. Charleston area on page 2: http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/wilderness/wilderness_fact_sheet.Par.25694.File.dat/Mt.%20Charleston%20Wilderness%20Fact%20Sheet%20Web%20Opt.pdf
Various government agencies, local and community organizations and individuals are helping with pets and horse boarding for the evacuees.
INCIWeb reports "12 crews, 26 engines and five watertenders" (that was yesterday; may be more or different config. today). The local r/w rag, aka the rj, reports (paraphrased so DU doesn't get sued) 12 "Hot Shot" crews. One of their headline writers even blamed the fire for causing a "red flag" weather warning. First, Hot Shot crews are a very specific type of wildland-fire fire fighter and 2, I'm pretty sure the "red flag" weather came about because of our excessive and dry heat which caused dry thunderstorms.
Dry thunderstorms: http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/elevated-wildfire-risk-continu/14844983
<snip there's an informative graphic here>
Although the rain evaporates as it falls, lightning from these storms can still strike the ground and potentially spark wildfires.
<snip to watch paragraph count>
These storms can also have negative impacts on wildfires already burning. Winds produced by the storms allow fires to grow rapidly and switch directions abruptly, making the battle against the blaze even more difficult for firefighters.
Link to a pretty good map showing the size of the fire and it's location relative to Vegas and Pahrump: http://www3.8newsnow.com/maps/canyonfire/
Back to INCIWeb: (snippets)
Current Situation
Total Personnel 422
Size 10,935 acres
Fuels Involved Pinyon Juniper
Fire Behavior Extreme long duration crown runs, spotting and rapid rate of spread.
Significant Events
Fire continues to exhibit extreme behavior. Transfer of command from a type III organization to Great Basin IMT 7 (Marty Adell).
Growth Potential High
Terrain Difficulty Extreme
Fire Behavior Forecast: Extreme fire behavior is likely. Torching of trees or long range fire spotting, with fire rates of spread predicted in sage brush of 5 mph are predicted.
Weather: Partly cloudy in the afternoon with isolated thunderstorms. Wind gusts to 40 mph possible. Temperatures cooler, in the 70s to 80s. Relative Humidity is 15-20%.
(I fixed some spelling)
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Idiocy on the internet: (I've been reading a lot of articles and these are some of the comments)
The fire was started/not contained because...government conspiracy!
The fire was caused by metals in the ground in Arizona.
Question as to why the Forest Service left; was it because of sequestration? (Note: it was because they were replaced by the next shift and the changing Incident Management Team)
People were not "asked" to leave, his friend was "ordered" to leave or be arrested. (I don't have TV or cable yet I've seen the reports since the first day of the fire, July 1st.)
The federal government was taking advantage of this disaster to "order" people around and remind them who's in charge.
One woman interviewed, one of the last off the Mt. Charleston side, never saw firefighters or planes dropping water/retardant. (I guess her TV/internet were/are broken; I've been watching reports of both for days. Hmmm, maybe it's a moon landing scenario?)
The government's been warning this kind of thing could happen; does that mean they caused it? (this idiot has never heard of fire science or forest science or, well, science, I guess.)
There are a lot more comments like that at the various articles. Very sad and horrifically terrifying.
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Finally, there was ash on my car, and still falling slightly, when I left for work yesterday morning about 5:30am local time. Others around the northern part of the valley "nearest" the fire reported the same. Very weird feeling.
I'm watching this closely and reading a lot, as you can tell.
East of the Mississippi y'all got your winter.
Out west, we have drought and a fire season that is now 2 months longer than historically recorded. Oh yeah, and excessive heat warnings and brown/black-outs.
We call it summer, which is also longer and hotter, earlier than in the past.
-------------------------
INCIWeb updated 5 minutes ago: (just snippet of changed piece)
422+fire personnel engaged on the fire.
There are 12 crews on scene, 6 of which are Type 1 Hotshot crews, the most highly trained. The Hotshot crews we have are the same type as the crew recently lost in Arizona.
As of the morning of July 6, there are the following air assets on the fire:
· 5 Type 1 (heavy) helicopters
· 4 heavy air tankers
· 1 VLAT (Very Large Air Tanker. Based on a DC-10). It can drop 11,700 gallons per load.
There are 6 water tenders and 25 engines on scene, with 25 engines on order. The area is very rugged and inaccessible to engines and other motorized vehicles.
------
Additional from INCI about 2 minutes ago:
There are 6 water tenders and 25 engines on scene, with 25 engines on order. The area is very rugged and inaccessible to engines and other motorized vehicles.
Response to Cerridwen (Original post)
LumosMaxima This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)But, I'm watching closely. I don't remember a wildfire being this close or this large. I hope my memory is faulty but I haven't found reports to correct it.
leftstreet
(36,118 posts)This just suckz
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)It's very sad to see.
We're staying inside as much as possible. There are air quality warnings out until Friday.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Too early for this shit.
Take care.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)MuseRider
(34,136 posts)As a farmer living in a part of Kansas that has been finally declared drought free yet we have had less than 1/3 of the measured rainfall for our area on our farm and this area I understand the worry and the need for sanity to prevail. I am terrified of pasture fires. My dry hydrant is still 6 inches above my pond, the ponds are so low. I guess it really is a dry hydrant now!
Anyway, take care and find the sanity where you can. Nobody needs to be extra stirred up during this. Be safe.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)Have you seen the national drought maps? About 2/3s of the continental US. It's truly scary.
I don't have a link handy but if you'd like to see one I can go look for one again. I think it was USDA or perhaps USGS? I've been reading so many maps lately I've forgotten which was what.
MuseRider
(34,136 posts)off the NOAA site and check it frequently. It is terrifying. We began getting dust storms, not bad where I am but I guess in Western Kansas and around the boarder with Oklahoma it was enough to shut down roads. Oddly I never heard about that on the news.
Thanks, I bet we are looking at the same map. It is the one that NOAA directs you to?
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)We're looking for land/property in other parts of the country and I've been checking soil maps, hydrology maps, maps indicating flood plains, county maps, property maps and plats, you name it. My head is spinning a bit.
Geez, you too stay safe and sane. I've looked at one place in SE Kansas and my dear SO practically imploded. LOL The place is just about everything we're hoping to find, at a decent price, but...well, location, location, location.
I'd like to say how surprised I am that you didn't read that in the news, but, as I'm sure you're not, neither am I. There seems to be a lot not making it to the news these days. Even this fire that has the valley covered in smoke and clouds has been hard to track through local news outlets. It's reported but not updated regularly.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)salin
(48,955 posts)Interesting to read your experience and updates. (And the idiocy on the internet is disturbing - but not unexpected.)
Again, be safe.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)This is a bit mind-boggling. Something we've dreaded for a long time but had managed to avoid. Now, I guess it's our turn.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)There are 6 water tenders and 25 engines on scene, with 25 engines on order. The area is very rugged and inaccessible to engines and other motorized vehicles.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)The air quality is dangerous for those with health, especially respiratory, issues. That's not us and we can stay in over the weekend at least.
Thank you, though.
I think I'll just track this from the safety of my home and stay out from underfoot. They don't need looky-loos and they have professional and trained people on it.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)Putting updates in thread; the OP's getting too long.
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Fire continues to exhibit extreme behavior.
Current command: Great Basin IMT 7 Type II Team (Marty Adell).
Future command: Rich Harvey's Type I Team.
-----
The paper local to Pahrump just added an article about the governor dropping by and authorizing a Type I response to the fire.
I'll post a bit more after I update the OP.
-----------
Another update from INCI:
PROJECTED FIRE MOVEMENT: North into Kyle and Lee Canyons, southwest toward Trout Creek and east to Lovell Canyon.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)First, a bit of background.
Pahrump is in Nye County and is as anti-government as they get; there are a few exceptions, very few. The fire originated in their neck of the woods, er, sagebrush. I, and several of my friends, have dealt with them many times over the years.
Their local paper reports that gov. sandoval (r) just authorized a Type I response to the fire. The Type I response is purely "big government" at its finest. I note here the irony and hypocrisy. But, since the "big government" is 1, comprised of "hot shot"s and 2, saving their property, they're peachy-keen-fine with "big government." *sigh*
No, I do not begrudge them one ounce of the help they are receiving. But then, that's what makes me different from those I've met. I have no doubt, since I've read their words, they would begrudge a starving person a meal if they were of the "wrong sort."
There. That's my rant.
Now, back to the fire watch.
By the way, a Type I response is crews and equipment used for more "complicated" fires. With the size and speed of growth of this fire combined with the insane weather here, Type I was being predicted about 2 days ago. I think it took this long to get some of the equipment and people here given all the fires throughout the west and in Alaska.
Stinky The Clown
(67,838 posts)Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)Hugs to you and Sparkly as well.
We're fairly safe here. It's just eerie. We went from 117 several days last week and now we're down under a 100 mostly because the fire is causing a haze and blocking the sun; it's overcast fer cryin' out loud. I can't even describe what it was like having ash falling from the sky.
Good to "see" you again, Stinky.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)Here's the same .pdf from the OP if you're interested in where Lovell Canyon is located. On the map in the .pdf, in the lower left is about where Pahrump is and on the right (due west) is about where Las Vegas is.
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/wilderness/wilderness_fact_sheet.Par.25694.File.dat/Mt.%20Charleston%20Wilderness%20Fact%20Sheet%20Web%20Opt.pdf
Here's a link from a local news channel. The article looks fairly well written and includes most of the information from the INCIWeb site.
http://www.mynews3.com/content/news/story/Mount-Charleston-fire-grows-to-nearly-11-000-acres/dIVD360td0CS4q3H2qW5Tg.cspx
Too much to snippet and give a good reading. One thing that jumped out at me is that the fire "spotted" (jumped) 8 miles last night up in the Rainbow subdivision in Kyle Canyon. Eight miles?! Oh hell.
"He told me it spotted about eight miles and homes on Harris Road were endangered," Cole said. "That's where my home of 30 years is."
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)This shows the perimeter and it's showing 9,031 acres...yay?
http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/NVHTF/2013-07-03-1317-Carpenter-1/picts/2013_07_06-17.10.46.135-CDT.pdf
This shows an infrared (heat) map (this is 10,935 acres).
http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/NVHTF/2013-07-03-1317-Carpenter-1/picts/2013_07_06-14.57.15.815-CDT.pdf
There are a couple of intense hot spots shown down the mountain on the north/east and east side.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)as they were being told to leave the Kyle Canyon area and on their way down the mountain.
edit: geez, I lost a whole day.
Cerridwen
(13,260 posts)From INCIWeb:
There are 16 crews on scene, 8 of which are Type 1 Hotshot crews, the most highly trained. The Hotshot crews we have are the same type as the crew recently lost in Arizona.
As of the morning of July 6, there are the following air assets on the fire:
· 5 Type 1 (heavy) helicopters
· 4 heavy air tankers
· 1 VLAT (Very Large Air Tanker. Based on a DC-10). It can drop 11,700 gallons per load.
There are 8 water tenders and 31 engines on scene. The area is very rugged and inaccessible to engines and other motorized vehicles.
<snip>
Total Personnel 628
Size 14,108 acres
Percent Contained 5%
Fuels Involved
Pinyon Juniper
Fire Behavior
Running fire behavior with short crown runs. Group tree torching and spotting.
Significant Events
Brian Sandoval, the gov. for state of Nevada toured the fire area and ICP today. Rich Harvey's Type I IMT inbriefed today. Team will assume command tomorrow morning. Very large Air Tanker made several retardant drops on the fire today.
<snip>
Remarks
PROJECTED FIRE MOVEMENT: North into Kyle and Lee Canyons, southwest toward Trout Creek and east to Lovell Canyon and Harris Springs Canyon. During the next 24 hours, it may hook north into the lower end of Kyle Canyon.
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nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It reaches the forest though (likely) and things will get uggly.
How worried, hot shot crews, very large bombers requested...crap from ll over...they are worried.
Why am I telling you this? The two very large bombers fighting your fire are Cal Fire, mutual aid...local IC requested them this afternoon as the chariot fire made it's way to the forest...
And so far it's only affecting my rattlers and deer and bunnies. Nt sure by the morning what else.