General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRachel Jeantal's smackdown of Don West's daughters.
Piers Morgan asked her what she thought of that photo put on FB by one of West's daughters, mocking Jeantal and belittling her.
She said something like "Look at the picture. Blond white girls! Where I live we consider blond girls to be dumb."
Ouch!!!
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Does she not like white girls or just not blond girls?
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)By mentioning something that she said insulting two women? Or by mentioning that she brought up race? Or do you just not like blonds?
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Cha
(297,574 posts)do that.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)like you, bigoted and gun types.
Tunkamerica
(4,444 posts)that is a legitimately ignorant statement. You obviously know that hair color has nothing to do with intelligence. If she had said that asians were dumb, or Inuits, or whoever it still would've been just as ignorant. True to her life experience? Maybe... but ignorance is ignorance.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)big difference. As a blond myself I totally get her point...somehow you don't seem to....are you blond?
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)and agree - good post.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Is that what you think about yourself?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but go ahead and miss the damn point. Right wingers do not get sarcasm....I think it must be genetic.
Tunkamerica
(4,444 posts)She said she and her friends think people with blonde hair are dumb. If you agree with that, then you just might have fallen into an ignorant stereotype.
Obviously, this does not defend the Facebook post by the daughter.
Full disclosure: I am not a blonde or a female. I am white. I do think Zimmerman was guilty of a crime.
malaise
(269,157 posts)like those jurors - oh wait!!!
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I barely have enough hair to determine the color now. Thirty years ago, maybe light brown.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)with African-American jokes, especially if the blond girl is in the minority. It is cruel. That does not speak well for Jeantel. Blonds cannot help being blond any more than African-Americans can help being African-American. None of us can help who or what we are. Women who have curly hair wish they had straighter hair, and women with straight hair wish theirs was curly. We have to accept ourselves and each other.
But Jeantel is very young and has a lot to learn. She has a tough time, I'm sure. But girls with blond hair don't necessarily have it easy. Some do, and some don't.
FSogol
(45,524 posts)those little blonde girls. Racism and the being the butt of a joke is exactly the same, right?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Brunettes tend to get the good end of racism.
The individual child knows nothing about churches that blew up. They only know the pain of being teased and bullied. That can happen to any child of any race.
Societal racism is one issue. It tends to cause a lot of individual racism. But individual racism, teasing a child for having a different skin color or a different kind of hair is cruel on an individual level.
We all need to be far more loving toward each other regardless of race. I say that from the point of view of living in a very mixed neighborhood in Los Angeles in which we enjoy our diversity.
It is also wrong to tease kids because they are bigger or smaller or heavier or thinner than others.
FSogol
(45,524 posts)I have a hard time worrying about it.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)"Thanks for the refill!"
.
.
.
.
.
.
Yes, I am blond, too.
Bake
(21,977 posts)She was a terrible witness for the prosecution. She apparently made stupid remarks on CNN. Maybe she ought to quit while she's ahead.
Unless you want to open up the whole "creepy ass cracker" thing again.
Bake
FSogol
(45,524 posts)Bake
(21,977 posts)But in your view, apparently, never.
I guess it's no longer proper to criticize ANYONE of Afrivan American descent for anything on this website. Regardless of whether its true.
The truth is that her testimony was AWFUL for the prosecution. You may not like that, but its the cold hard truth. And she did no favors for the prosecution, given the composition of the jury, with her combativeness and especially the lengthy exchange about "creepy ass crackers."
That was catastrophic for the prosecution. You can piss and moan all you like, but that may well have tipped the jury in favor of GZ. She was poorly prepped and a terrible witness. She didn't help herself on CNN either.
Bake
polly7
(20,582 posts)Let me guess, she should just take it and pretend it doesn't hurt ....... cause she's black. Don't you ever get tired of defending bigotry and hate?
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)but since she's the one that brought up race, I'm not going to defend her either.
It has to go both ways.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Sickening.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Defending a legitimate jury verdict is not defending bigotry or racism. Verdicts aren't racist or stupid just because they don't go the way you think they should.
Go ahead though...call me racist or whatever you like. Get it all out. It will make you feel better. I'll sleep fine either way.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Anansi1171
(793 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)or you haven't been paying much attention.
wtf.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Racism is only one way? I don't understand your post.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)But racism can be any way -- by definition. Racism is judging people by their race. Anyone can judge someone negatively just because they are of a different race.
Just being blond does not mean you are mean. It is such a big mistake to think that.
Tunkamerica
(4,444 posts)Maybe re-read the posts you are responding to.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Moses2SandyKoufax
(1,290 posts)I also hope that his fellow gun nuts get the boot as well. The gungeon is like our very own stormfront game preserve.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)mind after she learned that her friend was dead, at that young age. As she said herself, it was unreal, looking at the time of death afterwards, she realized her friend had been shot just two minutes later.
And what were West's daughters doing posting her photo on the internet? Got anything to say about inappropriate it is for an attorney's family to do something like that?
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)No, I'm not defending Don West's daughters. I don't doubt that they are spoiled, privileged jerks.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)of a friend, to react however they feel to the totally inappropriate attack by the daughters of an attorney INVOLVED IN THE CASE???
I think she was far too nice frankly.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)to which you replied, I was agreeing that yes, Don West's daughters' behavior was inappropriate.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the consequences of the action that set everything else in motion. Eg, if George Zimmerman had obeyed the advice to remain in his truck, a teenager would have chatted on the phone with his friend on his way home from the store, and he would have made it home as he had a right to do. And we would never have heard of him. George Zimmerman otoh, is someone we may have heard of considering his propensity for violence, as evidenced by his police record. Rachel's response to West's daughters would never have happened had they not behaved in a seriously inappropriate and cruel manner.
Bake
(21,977 posts)But you're right.
Bake
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I got flamed over it. It turns out, though, that Rachel Jeantel didn't mention race; the OP did.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Can't have this negress getting all uppity, now can we? She ought o know her place, and watch what she says!
Ugh.
Some DU posters are making my skin crawl. They should go back under the fucking rock.
polly7
(20,582 posts)JI7
(89,262 posts)i keep seeing their names pop up wondering why they haven't been banned yet.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)seems like du likes their trolls.
JustAnotherGen
(31,874 posts)I have one on another thread who has brought up the old whine about some people getting to use the n word. How She has to be sensitive and others don't. Blah blah blah.
eta
But it's such a crass word I doubt I will find a use for it anyway.
I asked why it was important to use that word. When you whine about a word - but refuse to admit that there is extreme inequality in our criminal justice system - I see your true colors.
That - and when someone tells me the "had/have a black friend once".
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)they are mean. Some blond girls are mean, and some are wonderful. Each person should be judged by their character and not the color of their skin or hair.
She is right to be angry at the girls for humiliating them, but not right to think they are mean because of their hair color or that all blond girls are mean. That's like thinking all African-Americans are dangerous. No. That is absolutely not true. That was Zimmerman's mistake.
MagickMuffin
(15,951 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 17, 2013, 04:35 PM - Edit history (1)
altogether.
Just another reason I rarely post here. I usually have this issue of not being able to discuss my options as well as I should and it makes people crazy.
Tunkamerica
(4,444 posts)Hillary?
MagickMuffin
(15,951 posts)as I recall as a young woman her hair was brownish.
That does not mean she is dumb. Plus I never said blonds are dumb. So, perhaps you should reconsider your outrage!
The burden of proof is on you to prove that I said anything about anyone being dumb.
Dumb people come in all colors. Skin, hair, even so called smart people can be dumb.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)I'm amazed at the bigotry I see excused here so long as it's directed at the right people. West and his ilk nauseate me, that doesn't mean that Jenteal's comments are any less stupid.
I now suppose I'll be called a racist because I agree with you? Oh well, I can handle it, I know I'm not as does anyone else who knows me.
reusrename
(1,716 posts)Considering our long history of oppressing blondes, the two are exactly the same.
You exhibit such sensitivity about this that it's no wonder you fear being called a racist.
premium
(3,731 posts)as I said, those that know me, know I'm not, I could care less what people on a chat board think.
MagickMuffin
(15,951 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 17, 2013, 04:36 PM - Edit history (1)
Reason posted above!
EOTE
(13,409 posts)By saying that you can change the color of your hair but not the color of your skin. If that's not justifying those stupid comments, I don't know what is. Saying that those girls are dumb simply because of the color of their hair is stupid, period. And this is from someone who's fairly certain those girls are as vapid as they come. I can't believe the cheerleading I'm seeing over this shit here.
MagickMuffin
(15,951 posts)Reason posted above!
EOTE
(13,409 posts)It was pretty much required considering how off topic and incomprehensible it was. Again, you didn't say anything about people being dumb for their hair color. I challenge YOU to show where I said anything about you saying that. What I DID say was that your comment was an idiotic attempt to justify those stupid comments. I'd ask you why exactly you mentioned being able to change hair color as opposed to not being able to change skin color unless it was to defend Jenteal's stupid comment. I would ask that, but I'm guessing you'd just post the same off topic nonsense again. How does your comment that people can change their hair color as opposed to skin color have ANYthing to do with the OP? It doesn't unless you're trying to excuse the stupid comments.
MagickMuffin
(15,951 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 17, 2013, 04:38 PM - Edit history (1)
Reason posted above!
EOTE
(13,409 posts)Actually no, just more idiocy. Not upset, just don't suffer fools gladly. And the sure sign of a fool is to constantly change the subject when his idiocy is pointed out to him.
MagickMuffin
(15,951 posts)However, your insults will not upset me. Calling me a fool and an idiot shows that you really know how to throw insults around. Yet, you become extremely outraged over someone being called dumb.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)It's incredibly stupid to call someone stupid for having blonde hair. It's quite appropriate to call someone stupid for actually being stupid.
Tunkamerica
(4,444 posts)first even-headed comment i've read.
Do people really think it's okay to say all blondes are stupid? Does blonde hair excuse terrible behavior? Apparently it does for almost every poster above your post.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I don't see what you mean "that it says more about her than them". Their behavior was pretty despicable, publicly mocking a witness in one of their father's trial. Some people would even call it bullying. Please, explain your thinking about how it says more about Rachael than the defense attorney's daughters?
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I don't remember anything like that ever coming out, and I don't have twitter or facebook. What did they say?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)With the crypt keeper defense attorney and his daughters the day Rachael testified said, "we beat stupidity celebration". They were talking about Rachael.
Again, I really would like to know your thinking when you say, It says more about Rachael than Don West's daughters?
If you weren't aware of it, How did you know it was twitter or facebook? I don;t tweet or facebook either, but I knew about it.
Spazito
(50,444 posts)and also note the #daddykilledit as well. This was posted the night West has completed cross examining Rachel:
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I had seen the pictures but not the text. Pretty stupid thing to post in the middle of a trial.
Spazito
(50,444 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)Moses2SandyKoufax
(1,290 posts)Mainly that you're a disgusting, racist piece of shit.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I might not sleep tonight after that particularly insightful analysis of my character.
Response to NaturalHigh (Reply #58)
Post removed
Tunkamerica
(4,444 posts)Can we please keep things civil?
I have no knowledge of prev. posts from this poster, but you are out of line just judging from this thread.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)mocking her first.
where i live, turnabout is fair play.
so no, it says more about the blondies.
Moses2SandyKoufax
(1,290 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,874 posts)Fair assessment.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)It was started by white males in positions of power and influence. It's cast in movies since i was a kid and I am 70. It's the brunt of millions of jokes everywhere. Even other women make the same references...especially in the south where they can't afford to bleach their hair.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Does she not like white girls or just not blond girls..."
I'd imagine she rather dislikes blond, white girls who post pictures implying her she's stupid... which in fact, illustrates much, much more of the West girls than anyone else.
However, you may of course, interpret it in any form which casts her, rather than the blond, white girls who initiated the vulgarity in any negative manner if you feel better validated by it.
crim son
(27,464 posts)she is pretty sharp, if not kind, when attacked.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Response to grasswire (Original post)
Post removed
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Ever seen a sign that said "No Crackers Allowed" in front of a rest room?
ceonupe
(597 posts)Not all racial names are published on him crow signs
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but I am old enough to remember the 60's and you aren't....
ceonupe
(597 posts)I am an 80s baby but I don't believe racism frozen in the 1960s.
Many times I see some of my black friends make the most racist of remarks about other people I'm quick to correct them but I'm usually take back. Keep in mind these are college educated almost all from college educated parents in what I would call good homes. Surprised but I guess they feel others do it to them so........
But I don't agree.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)So yeah....I don't remember "Strange Fruit" being written about "Crackers" hanging from trees...do you?
editted to add
You think that it ended in the 60's?
Again ask your Grandparents about that!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Oh yeah....
Wonder what those Crackers that wrapped that chain around his neck before they dragged him to his death called HIM?
and THAT wasn't the 60's
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Grandma will box your ears young man!
Whisp
(24,096 posts)unless black people used whites as slaves for those many years and considered them less than human for how many years.
jesus, wtf!
Beacool
(30,250 posts)JI7
(89,262 posts)I forgot these guy's names.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)That photo came out before Jaentel gave her testimony. It wasn't aimed at her. The bullshit never stops.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Spazito
(50,444 posts)These are the responses by West and others on the defense team:
Update - 7:05 p.m.: Zimmermans defense team confirmed that picture was of Don West and his mortified daughters.
Evan Benn @EvanBenn
Zimmerman defense team spokesman confirms photo, says Molly West 'is mortified,' Instagram acct closed.
4:22 PM - 28 Jun 13
Reply
Retweet
Favorite
Evan Benn @EvanBenn
Don West: "We're not always proud of things our children do, but we love them anyway, and then we move on."
4:22 PM - 28 Jun 13
Reply
Retweet
Favorite
Evan Benn @EvanBenn
Spokesman: "We understand the context of the comments with what's happened in court this week are grossly insensitive."
The photo itself was taken before Rachel's testimony, the posting of it and the caption were put on her Instagram page AFTER her testimony.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/george-zimmermans-lawyer-goes-out-for-ice-cream-after-defend
Edited to add link.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)was not about what happened on or before Tuesday (West's opening arguments)? I grant that it might have been a swipe at Jaentel, the least credible witness ever, but to insist that it was is pure speculation.
Spazito
(50,444 posts)"Spokesman: "We understand the context of the comments with what's happened in court this week are grossly insensitive.""
If you assume it is pure speculation then the spokesman for the defense team must have been purely speculating as well.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)that the photo was taken before Jaentel's testimony.
Spazito
(50,444 posts)The photo was a 'selfie', a photo taken by West of himself and his daughters during a recess on the day of his opening statement. His daughter posted the photo with the caption "We beat stupidity celebration" AFTER West cross-examined Rachel.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)and that celebration occurred before Jaentel's testimony, it stands to reason that the reference to a "we beat stupidity celebration" was not a reference to Jaentel. Get it?
Spazito
(50,444 posts)I know you get it, you just refuse to admit it. Her father and his defense team 'got it' that it WAS about Rachel.
It is such a pretzel twist to think that a caption that says "We beat stupidity celebration" on a photo of a celebration might refer to what was being celebrated in the photo and not to something that happened later. (sarcasm)
polly7
(20,582 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
But this guy likes your style.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)that the caption "we beat stupidity celebration" might be referring to the celebration in the photo, which was a celebration that occurred before Jaentel's testimony.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Response to polly7 (Reply #106)
Vattel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)During a trial, the daughter of a member of the defense team referred to the prosecution's case as stupid. That was really dumb.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)that the photo was taken before Jaentel's testimony.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Sheesh, it's not compllicated.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Let me see if I can explain it to you.
The photo was a photo of a celebration that occurred before Jaentel's testimony.
On the post, West's daughter called the celebration a "We beat stupidity celebration."
So it appears that her post was not directed at Jaentel's testimony.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)The picture was taken beforehand.
The picture was POSTED AFTER.
The caption was ADDED AFTER.
So it appears that her post WAS directed at Jaentel's testimony. That's why her daddy expressed his embarrassment at his daughter's conduct.
Here, since you're having such enormous difficulty wrapping your head round the concept, let me give you an example--a simple, obvious one-- of a picture that was taken PREVIOUSLY, that is posted AFTER, and has a caption added AFTERWARDS.
"Lookee me, Ah'm an ASSHOLE!!!"
See? Picture taken BEFORE.
Picture posted AFTERWARDS.
Caption added AFTERWARDS.
Not.
Rocket.
Science.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I can't help you if you don't understand the easy logic there.
MADem
(135,425 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"the daughter of a member of the defense team referred to the prosecution's case as stupid..."
Is not that "pure speculation" also, as was your charge insofar as it referred to the young lady? Or do you have additional and absolute knowledge of the specific target of the caption?
We often illustrate our own biases when we hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I should have been more cautious. I am not certain what the target was.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)I wasn't aware of the timeline, and you're absolutely correct.
It was disgusting of Piers Morgan to even bring the West daughters into this for comment. Of course, we already know that Jeantel is willing to use "retarded" as a slur, so maybe he thought he could get her to use the word "cracker" again.
I said it before, I'll say it again, her testimony did not do the prosecution any favors.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)The comment was made later, yes, but the comment was "We beat stupidity celebration." The comment clearly suggests that the photo was of a celebration of beating stupidity. But that celebration occurred before Jaentel's testimony. So it seems reasonable to suppose that the stupidity being referred to was not stupidity that occurred after the celebration.
It's not rocket science people.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)It's that simple for anyone who is not trying to rationalize their bigotry and gun nuttery.
"The picture shows West and his two daughters holding ice cream cones. Molly West, 23, posted the picture to her Instagram account under the handle mollywestttt along with the caption We beat stupidity celebration cones. The hashtags #zimmerman, #defense, and #dadkilledit were added on as well." Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/29/zimmerman-attorney-says-daughters-instagram-post-immature-and-insensitive-apologizes/#ixzz2ZDrxdZmo
An Example: Here is a photo from 1950/60s of a racist who ran for office in Georgia. He claimed he was not a racist, even though his ads included words like "n_____s and J__s," and he was later convicted of bombing a church in Alabama.
My Caption 07/16/2013 -- "How many times can a man turn his head, Pretending he just doesn't see?".
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)If I had seen those entitled princesses celebrating the murder of my friend, I would have said some things that would have gotten me banned. Those people make me sick.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)stereotypes of Rachel Jeantel. You cannot judge people by their hair or skin color.
She will be ridiculed for this.
GiaGiovanni
(1,247 posts)Agreed.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)]People on their stereotypes.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Does that mean something?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)apples and oranges
(1,451 posts)Just hair color.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They come in brunette too.
JI7
(89,262 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)She has class. It's a shame the Westies don't know what real class is.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)handmade34
(22,757 posts)just watched it...
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/piers-morgan-conducts-riveting-interview-with-trayvon-martins-friend-witness-rachel-jeantel/
I want to give that girl a big hug
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)well, mostly gray now, and I thought that was a delicious response.
I think Rachel Jeantal shows a real sense for irony. The girl is not so stupid as some would believe.
Glimmer of Hope
(5,823 posts)mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)What the hell going on. Who gives a sweet fuck about those dizzy broads. Tell them to go say it to her face. Betcha they won't. They are nothing more than face book thugs. I am really impressed.
marshall
(6,665 posts)Jeantel got belittled for her race and appearance, and she does the same to two other women. Our society is in a loop of prejudice.
Response to grasswire (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)That is sexist and hair-colorist. Prejudice in different clothes is still prejudice. But because Jeantal said it, many are in a swoon of loving it.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Now, white doesn't necessarily mean European, even though that's what most people think of when you talk about white people in the US. Clearly, Z is referred to as white, even though his skin color isn't white and he's not of European descent.
Easy way to keep score: If you're white, or look close enough to being white, you are assumed racist and anything you say or do can be twisted as proof. If you're not white, nothing you say or do can possibly be racist in any way. Facts are irrelevant.
The kicker? These rules are made and enforced by people who angrily denounce racism. Ironic, ain't it?
Kurska
(5,739 posts)What a classless response.