Something that happened yesterday has me angry.

[Bluzmann57]

My parents live in a condo complex because they can no longer take care of their house. I am married to Filipina and she has a 4 year old daughter who worships the ground I walk on. No brag, just fact .
Anyway, yesterday Tiffany wanted to visit grandma and after calling my parents, we all agreed that it was just a dandy idea. We arrived at the complex, I punched in the security code and my mom buzzed us in. My sister and her S.O. were over there for a visit as well and they wanted to take her out to a local park to play on the slides. So off they went.
Around a half hour later they came back, called my mom and she went ahead and buzzed them in. But, while in the lobby, they encountered some elderly people who said, "This is a security building, you have to be let in." Scott, my sis's S.O. said, "ok we're doing that now." And the woman replied, "I don't think the Asian child is welcome here." Then the door opened and my sis, her S.O. and Tiffany went up to the condo. The lady then commented to her friend, "They let them in anyway." Scott related this incident to me and I said that it was probably a good thing she didn't say that to me because I may have reacted in an ugly manner. I know damn well I would have said something, likely rude. My mom said that, while it's a pretty good place to live, there are some old folks who are set in their ways and won't change now. That may be, but when they are disparaging a sweet little kid like Tiffany, who loves everybody, that's where I draw the line. And quite frankly, I don't care about one's age, gender, sexual orientation, etc. I will stick up for my step daughter no matter what and if someone makes prejudicial remarks toward her, they better be ready for what will follow.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. That should piss you off, but...

I doubt they have many friends who agree with them or anything would be accomplished by flying off the handle at them.

Sometimes, it's best to just let them wallow in their own mud.

[elehhhhna]

9. sometimes it's dementia talkjing

either way I'd have probably said "No worries, she's our apprentice maid" or something

[notadmblnd]

38. I would have said something like;

and I was told that they don't let bigots in, yet here you are!

[elehhhhna]

59. Or, didn't you hear? The city designed all the empty units Section 8

just to see their faces.

[bemildred]

2. Just don't get violent or make threats. Smile while you talk to them.

And protect that acolyte of yours.

[Bluzmann57]

4. You and the previous poster are probably correct

And you are probably both better people than me. But I am very protective of my Step daughter, as she is new to this country and loves everybody and everything.

[bemildred]

6. I can assure you I am not better people than you.

Although, like you, some people do like me.

Some disgruntled old fart in a condo is not a real threat, and the things we really care about are what we need to focus on, like the kid. The kid needs you.

[mnhtnbb]

3. Too bad she didn't say something like, "Oh, I must have missed the sign

that says only old fart bags are allowed."

Old geezers can be pretty full of themselves.

[eShirl]

7. +1

The only thing that has a hope of getting through such rude ignorance is an immediate short, sharp rudeness wallop right back.

[awoke_in_2003]

21. I would have told her to go fuck herself...

If you say ugly things, you should expect them in return. "Old and set in their ways" is a flimsy excuse for being bigoted assholes.

[southernyankeebelle]

5. That old lady should have studied her history. The people of the Phillipines are a great

people who were there to help the americans during WWII. I loved the country and the people. Believe me when I tell you I can remember living there like it was yesterday even though I was 6 yrs old. I started school there. I got my holy communion there. We had a married couple living with us taking care of our family. Beautiful country also. On the whole a gentle people and try to make you feel good. I don't know what this woman had up her butt and if I had heard her say something like that I know I would have said something to her.

[L0oniX]

10. My reply: Hey how's that Aryan race thing working out for ya?

[ConcernedCanuk]

45. Don't try that if you ever end up in prison

.
.
.

Unless you are one big tough m'fukker

Those guys can be MEAN!

CC

[L0oniX]

61. Oh ...and I was so looking forward to having a nice dinner and dance.

[ConcernedCanuk]

71. No dinner, but you'd be dancing alright . .

.
.
.



CC

[HardTimes99]

56. Or, better yet, "Why don't you go back to Nazi Germany?" - nt

[Ms. Toad]

62. That person may well be in Nazi Germany -

or perhaps kinder and gentler US version of it in the 1940s when we interned Japanese Americans.

A person with dementia often reverts to childhood - and if that childhood was informed by living through the period when our government believed Japanese Americans were a threat, that person may well believe they are a current threat.

Not that that period of our history is anything to be proud of, but many people - including some on DU - still believe the internment of Japanese Americans was appropriate and someone who was a child at that time, and is living there now in her mind, can't be expected to be better than the adults around her or her government.

I don't know the history of the person making the comment, but I am all too intimately familiar with what dementia does to a person. That kind of blurting out of something which is socially unacceptable - and persistence despite others not perceiving the same thing - is very common.

[KT2000]

11. Some elderly people

can be really rude and insensitive about matters of race. They grew up in a different time and they are not going to change at this point. An elderly friend who was in the nursing home had to put up with her room-mate telling everyone she was high German but my friend was low-German. They use ugly slang words. They confront people for being of anything other than Caucasian.

Anger may not be the right response as there are issues of dementia too - they just say what goes through their head. For example, when the old person said "the Asian is not welcome here," saying "Sure she is!" should suffice.

[theHandpuppet]

20. Got a question for you

What is "high German" and "low German"?

[KT2000]

25. From what I gathered,

the room-mate was from Germany and my friend's family came from Austria so I am guessing that people from Austria are considered lower class than those from Germany?

[grasswire]

32. AFAIK, low German is Bavarian.

At least that's what I was taught in German class, regarding the languages and dialects. I was taught "high German". The "low German" Bavarian dialect pronounces words less crisply.

[REP]

43. Low Dutch is a form of Saxon; spoken in parts of Germany, The Netherlands, Mennonites in the US, etc

[Jackpine Radical]

57. It just refers to the 2 major dialect groups.

"High" and "low" really mean something like "highland" and "lowland." High G. Is spoken in the southern, higher-altitude regions & Low G. In the lower northern areas. Dutch is somewhat similar to Low G. Austrian is High German.

High German became the "official" language by the happenstance that Luther wrote his Bible translation in that dialect.

[Skittles]

36. that old folk stuff is just a cop out

no matter what "time" people grew up in they surely know by now it is not cool to go around acting like racist assholes

[KT2000]

39. Of course, but

believe me - it is usually pointless to get upset about it. They are not going to change no matter what you say to them. Sometimes it is just best to write it off as more often than not they are living in their past.

[Skittles]

40. I do not believe it is ever pointless to be upset about racism

I'll call them out every time, regardless of my confidence in their "ability to change"

[Ms. Toad]

49. Just an FYI -

Dementia is real, and it does cause some old people (and even some not so old) to act in ways which seem offensive - even if they are not otherwise obviously under the influence of dementia. Calling them out is cruel - and particularly so to any loved ones with them at the time. The behavior itself is painful, but to have a loved one called out for behavior which is not under her control (and which I don't have the right to explain) makes it far worse.

My spouse is in the early stages of dementia. I have known it for a decade, and others are noticing without understanding what they are noticing. We threw a party and she was responsible for inviting the guests (about 40). 5 people showed up, four of whom were invited by the one person she did invite. She spent the meal calling the others she had expected to show up and repeatedly got the response, "you never invited us." The ones present kidded her about getting old and losing her mind - not realizing she actually was. I just wanted to scream, "Don't you recognize what you are seeing? Isn't it clear that this is real medical problem, not a joke?"

But I didn't because she still believes there is nothing wrong with her (even though she is taking two dementia drugs and is under the care of a neurologist for dementia). Her primary loss (executive function) makes it impossible for her to understand that she is not 100% normal. But it is still her choice not to tell others - so until it is blatantly obvious, aside from telling a few mutual friends I need to support me in this journey, I just have to silently listen to my spouse being called out for behavior which is objectively unreasonable, but which is not under her control.

So I hope you'll think about that the next time you feel it is necessary to call someone out over racism. Sometimes, particularly in the elderly, racism isn't volitional. Sunday was the most recent time my spouse was called out for it. Twice. And, absent the disease, she is one of of the least racist white people I know.

[pipi_k]

60. Thank you...people who

think it's cool or permissible to call others out on what they say suck.

Because what someone says could very well be due to dementia.

Or even, in the case of one of my sisters, because of Aspergers or something.

What are people thinking when they do stuff like that? They're going to change the behavior of someone who honestly can't help what comes out of his or her mouth?

That they're going to look like a HERO for picking on someone who can't help what comes out of his or her mouth?

I think it's always a good idea to first assume that someone might not be dealing from a full deck, so to speak, and, if it's really necessary to spit out a retort, at least make it a civil one

[Skittles]

63. why don't you ASK those people

instead of clucking behind their backs? What are people thinking when they do stuff like that?

[pipi_k]

66. Don't have a clue

what "those people" you are referring to whom I'm supposed to "ask".

Maybe you can explain...

[Skittles]

68. never mind; you really just answered my question

[pipi_k]

72. Cute little

Head game, there

I always figure it's about bullshit when someone leaves what they think is a witty one-liner but then can't explain what the hell they meant

Brilliant "discussion" tactic

[renate]

64. I am so sorry... what a lonely and heartbreaking experience it sounds like

You are so loving and compassionate to put her feelings ahead of your own, by not letting on how dramatically her dementia is affecting you, and by respecting her autonomy--in addition to all the other caretaking roles you've had to play. And you've been doing it for a long and difficult time. I am so deeply touched by your example, and am so sorry that you have had to live it.

[Ms. Toad]

78. Thanks.

It is pretty lonely - and my hope here is that a few people might see the world through my eyes for just a bit, and perhaps be gentler the next time they encounter someone who seems just a little bit off (and perhaps a bit offensive and socially clueless). It doesn't really seem to impact her that much. One one of the benefits of losing your memory is that the sting of reprimands don't stick around long - and also one of the bad things since what triggered the reprimand doesn't stick around long either and you keep repeating it. but if they have a loved one within earshot that extra bit of understanding or empathy can really make a world of difference.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. All I can offer is hugs.

And I did tell skittles the same.

I was told that by a neurologist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3325979

I fear after I read this sub thread I just wasted bandwidth.

Hugs...some of us get it

[Ms. Toad]

79. Thanks. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. The upthread point about dementia is appropriate.

I've found that there's little to be gained by arguing with the elderly about their biases.

[Skittles]

70. there's plenty of elderly folk with their marbles intact

and when I looked after an old not-so-marbled gal who would say inappropriate things, I let the people around us know her condition

[pipi_k]

75. The only problem is

That you have no idea what marbles, or how many of them, a stranger might have.

Even someone you know well could be fooling everyone like my late MIL did for a while. She did and said some pretty strange things when she lived here, and we would relate some of these stories to family members who thought WE were nuts...or lying...for the longest time because she always managed to act "normal" when they were around

After a while she became unable to keep up the facade and other people gradually got to see that she did NOT "have all her marbles"

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. To a point.

It was explained this way to me by a neurologist...bear in mind it does not apply to all old folks.

As he put it, all old folks have lost synaptic connections. Some go back to patterns of behavior that were acceptable when young, not because they are set in their ways, but because those synapses are still there as the oldest and still remaining. He got curious after a family member who was very progressive and forward looking became the worst racist you could meet.

So after some research...he found this to be the case. It is in some ways, or could be, related to dementia.

After he explained that, I got a tad more patience and I have seen that in my own family.

[alarimer]

47. It's not just old people, though, sadly.

There is a deep and ugly vein of racism in American culture and anyone who denies it is a fool.

I can't remember where I read this, but it was an article in Salon or Slate by a woman from Trinidad who grew up in the US but decided to return home because of the ugly racism she faced growing up and even now. I can't say I blamed her. I was astonished at the stories she related, the casual racism she experienced. It wasn't as if people were burning crosses on her lawn.

She was college-educated and would get comments about how she was different from other people of color, i.e. not lazy.

I hear things like that all the time too. And not from old people. From people who assume because I'm white that I must agree with them.

[Iggo]

13. Shoulda hit her on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

"No, grandma! No!"

[OldRedneck]

14. No excuses.

A few of the comments to your post tend to the "oh, well, maybe she was senile . . . " or some other excuse.

Sorry. No excuses.

I would have reacted in what may have been considered an "ugly manner."

There's no excuse for this crap and anyone who pulls it . . . old, young, demented, or whatever . . . needs to be told off quickly, clearly, and forcefully.

[Ms. Toad]

50. Please consider my experience.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023312655#post49

There are forms of dementia which rob the person living it of the ability to understand or change their actions. Telling them off "quickly, clearly, and forcefully" is like telling the same thing to someone with Tourette's Syndrome whose involuntary verbal tics include racist words.

[snort]

16. How about

"Fuck you, you bigoted old piece of shit"?

Works for me.

[Uben]

17. What I have noticed about older folks....

...they (some) still use racist language when talking amongst themselves, and often forget they are in mixed company. I live among them, I know. I think some of them must think we all think the same as they do just because we live where they do. And, as bad as I hate to say it, they're about a hundred times more likely to be republicans. I don't know if that's just because I live in republican hell, or if it's that way everywhere.

And, aren't Phillipinos polynesians instead of asians? These folks who showed their prejudice are just too ignorant and set in their ways to change, I guess. Most of em won't be around much longer due to attrition, and that should lead too even better strides against racism and prejudice.

[Ravens.Ransom]

41. Asian's an improvement

if she's like one elderly woman I know. She still calls everyone "orientals".

Do what you can & remember your daughter is lucky to have you.

[Bluzmann57]

54. Thank you for the kind words.

I do the best I can. I most certainly am not a perfect man, but I want the kid to be a good human being as she goes through life. Nothing more, nothing less.

[JHB]

18. "Ma'am, it's facinating how someone can reach your age without learning common decency"

"or manners".

[Butterbean]

34. Excellent response. n/t

[narnian60]

35. Perfect.

I will remember that if the occasion ever arises.

[Bonhomme Richard]

19. I have found that, as people get older, that filter in...

their brain that stops them from saying the first thing that enters their mind gets turned off.
My mother in law, who was raised in the south, is a good example. I never heard a racist remark by her until she moved in with us. She was in her late 70's and the things coming out of her mouth floored both my wife and I. That is when I first noticed it and since then I have seen it repeated time and time again.

[Ms. Toad]

51. Has she been checked for dementia?

Some forms of dementia turn that filter off.

[AsahinaKimi]

22. There are far worse words than "Asian Child"

and I am glad you didn't get to hear any of those. But, yeah..I would have been in their face too.

[Bluzmann57]

53. Yeah I know about those words

I have never approved of that one particular word and never will. The "G" word and the "N" word are simply not allowed in my house nor were they allowed when we were small kids.

[Schema Thing]

23. "actually, it's White Supremacist that aren't welcome here".

[boilerbabe]

24. Sorry that you had to encounter racism in your family home

I had a great aunt that used to tell mildly racist jokes (she was from Virginia). I think it's ignorance of others and upbringing mostly. I just let it ride in her case (didn't laugh at the joke, but just kind of let her know it wasn't OK without making a total scene). Unfortunately, there are even young people that have developed that same prejudice against types (hate to use that word, but articulacy escapes me) against those that are different from them results in active hatred. People are crass and ugly sometimes.

As you can see by the replies to your post, you have a lot of people on your side. Don't kill anybody if you can help it! Maybe you can leave a flyer from the Southern Poverty Law Center by the front desk of the complex? You can literature from them. I just tried to paste the link, but Windows 7 is really weird on this one. And I think I just donated to them, but that didn't seem to go through either!! I might have donated like 25 times by mistake and will have to work some more OT!

I think the link is something like splc.org They have tons of good stuff for "teaching tolerance". A great organization fighting for the rights of minorities and the oppressed.

[ret5hd]

26. The SPLC just announced they are able to cancel all fundraising for the next year!!!

All because of a single generous donor!

[elleng]

28. That is SO GOOD for them, and for all of us!

My Dad contributed to SPLC for years, and I was about to contribute 'in his name.'

[ret5hd]

30. Maby I should have said I was kidding...YOU were the "single generous donor".

[elleng]

31. If only!

[elleng]

27. I'm with you, very sorry,

and would have said something (out of Tiffany's hearing, of course.) CERTAINLY would have given the 'look.' Imagining it now.

SO SORRY.

[snooper2]

29. Old racists don't bother me as much as Young racists

They'll be dead soon enough

[lunasun]

77. agree

[avebury]

33. How horrid for the old bats to treat your daughter

so poorly. She did not deserve that. I hope that she did not realize that the mean spiritedness was being addressed at her.

You and your daughter are lucky to be a part of each other's lives.

[markiv]

37. innocently ask 'unwelcome by whom besides yourself'?

staring her in the eye as you say it, with a raised eyebrow

answering a rude question with a firm but fair question is powerful

she's implying her remark is supported by someone else than herself, and calling her bluff would put her (and leave her) on the spot she tried to put you on. bet anything nobody else was willing to 'step in it', and help the rude lady out. and in the off chance she did mention anyone else immediatly say 'well, lets ask them', calling that bluff too. Use the ground that's been gained. whatever the people she might mention really think, odds overwhelmingly they're not going to back her up (management absolutely WONT back her up, 100 percent chance)

such a tactic was one of Ann Lander's favorites, she was a master of keeping dignity and cool

you're between the rock and the hard place of respecting elders, vs protecting your young, but protecting your own young cannot be compromised.

learn good, tough and fair ettiquete skills from people like ann landers, dear abby, miss manners etc, their entire livelyhoods were spent offering people advice on how to handle rude people without breaching ettiquete, which exposed the offended party to social scorn if not handled correctly

good luck

[Cha]

42. It's mind blowing how ignorant some people are, Bluzmann.

Probably a gift you weren't there. I know how I would react at the wrong moment.

Maybe something like.. "what do you mean by that?".. ..that's what Pres Obama said to a tennis coach when told the color of his skin might rub off on the draw sheets.

Obama was still a chubby adolescent, just returned from Indonesia and enrolled at the prestigious Punahou School, when he suffered the first such experience. He was one of the kids who played tennis after school, sometimes entering tournaments. One day he and some friends were looking at the draw sheets that had just been posted for a tournament when the tennis pro barked out that Barry shouldn’t touch the board, because his color might rub off.“He singled him out, and the implication was absolutely clear,” classmate Kristen Caldwell later recalled. “Barry’s hands weren’t grubby, the message was that his darker skin would somehow soil the draw. Those of us standing there were agape, horrified, disbelieving. Barry handled it beautifully, with just the right amount of cold burn without becoming disrespectful. ‘What do you mean by that?’ he asked firmly.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110212657

My son just got married to a Flipina girl in Hong Kong.. and they've already talked about having children..

[Bluzmann57]

55. I hope your son's marriage works out as well as mine has.

We also got married in Hong Kong. There is a large population of Filipinos in HK. My wife used to teach a class on organic agriculture to a group of Filipinos and Filipinas. Her garden is like printing money. Fresh organic veggies nearly free.

[Cha]

67. Lucky you all.. fresh organic veggies!

My son's wife is from Boracay Island but she wanted to be married in Hong Kong. They met on facebook.

I hope it works out as well as yours, too, Bluzmann!

[B Calm]

44. After all these years they're still fighting WW2?

[ConcernedCanuk]

46. On topic - racism

.
.
.

On racism:

While in trade school in the 70's, my best chum there was a black guy named Garry.

One day, a few of the other students (white) cornered me - asking me "why you hanging around with that black guy?, they're all assholes you know"

I looked at the ground for a second or two, then at all three of them in the face and said - "ya know, in my 23 years, all the assholes I've met were WHITE!" - The looks on their faces were what we'd call "priceless" - none said a word and wandered off.

I react to people by their behavior, not their color or ethnicity.

That was 40 years ago, I haven't changed.

And I'm a white guy.

A small white guy.

CC

[Enthusiast]

48. It's a plague of assholes........nt

[orpupilofnature57]

52. Part of the Bullet that murdered Trayvon was Revered Xenophobia, a skewed sense of the

Enemy is delusional but accepted . Misanthropic Sycophant Monsters (MSM) has fortified this notion of exclusion to enforce fascism and isolation, or citizens that trust no one but themselves and their kind .

[Ms. Toad]

58. I am sorry your daughter experienced this -

but I hope you will also consider what may have been going on - from my side of similar interactions - http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023312655#post49

One of the things which happens in dementia is a reversion to childhood. For many elderly people, that was a time when the US ripped Japanese Americans from their homes and interned them because they were perceived by our government to be a threat to our security. If dementia takes you there, there is nothing that can be done - particularly by a stranger - to pull you back.

Or if there is - I would love to know about it, since losing a loved one who is still physically present is a special kind of torture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Two things

Enjoy it while it lasts, your daughter worshiping the ground you walk on.



Secondly, I would be pissed too.

One of my elderly neighbors actually sold her apartment and moved away (ironically to a black couple) when another black couple moved in. There goes the neighborhood, I know.

[Drew Richards]

76. My dear bluzmann57 dont get angry it serves no purpose for you but instead....

If you encounter such... Turn to your child and reply in a loud stage whisper " don't listen or take offence honey..many people are emotionally crippled by their upbringing or for forgetting to take their medication to act like mature grown ups in public...you will encounter many in your life, don't be sad for what they say without thinking...be sad that they ever thought it....and...i love you....

Thats my little speech when I encounter such rudeness in front of children...some have even had enough maturity to apologise in front of the child...

Drew.