Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

kpete

(71,994 posts)
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 10:14 AM Jul 2013

NSA Collecting All the Information Needed to Kill You

From the Washington Post:

On the line with the SEAL was the drone operator and a “collector,” an NSA employee at the agency’s gigantic base at Fort Gordon in Augusta, Ga. The collector was controlling electronic surveillance equipment in the airspace over the part of Afghanistan where the CIA had zeroed in on one particular person. The SEAL pleaded with the collector to locate the cellphone in Afghanistan that matched the phone number that the SEAL had just given him, according to someone with knowledge of the incident who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The collector had never before done such a thing. Before even intercepting a cellphone conversation, he was accustomed to first confirming that the user was the person he had been directed to spy on. The conversation would then be translated, analyzed, distilled and, weeks later, if deemed to be interesting, sent around the U.S. intelligence community and the White House.

On that day, though, the minutes mattered.

“We just want you to find the phone!” the SEAL urged. No one cared about the conversation it might be transmitting.

The CIA wanted the phone as a targeting beacon to kill its owner.

By September 2004, a new NSA technique enabled the agency to find cellphones even when they were turned off. JSOC troops called this “The Find,” and it gave them thousands of new targets, including members of a burgeoning al-Qaeda-sponsored insurgency in Iraq, according to members of the unit.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-growth-fueled-by-need-to-target-terrorists/2013/07/21/24c93cf4-f0b1-11e2-bed3-b9b6fe264871_story.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/21/1225525/-Breaking-NSA-Collecting-All-the-Information-Needed-to-Kill-You



Snowden put phones in a refrigerator for a reason
Why Snowden Asked Visitors in Hong Kong to Refrigerate Their Phones
By HEATHER MURPHY
New York Times’ Lede Blog
June 25, 2013, 9:41 am
Before a dinner of pizza and fried chicken late Sunday in Hong Kong, Edward J. Snowden insisted that a group of lawyers advising him in the Chinese territory “hide their cellphones in the refrigerator of the home where he was staying, to block any eavesdropping,” as my colleague Keith Bradsher reported.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/why-snowdens-visitors-put-their-phones-in-the-fridge/

Why a refrigerator? The answer does not, as some might assume, have anything to do with temperature. In fact, it does not matter particularly if the refrigerator was plugged in. It is the materials that make up refrigerator walls that could potentially turn them into anti-eavesdropping devices…http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world/asia/snowden-departure-from-hong-kong.html?_r=2&
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
NSA Collecting All the Information Needed to Kill You (Original Post) kpete Jul 2013 OP
It just gets deeper and deeper. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author Downwinder Jul 2013 #2
Breaking: ProSense Jul 2013 #3
Very important article. Octafish Jul 2013 #4
Who has died right here on U.S. soil as a result of the NSA or a drone? AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #5
List of US Citizens extrajudicially executed as a result of NSA or drones: leveymg Jul 2013 #8
not yet, anyway markiv Jul 2013 #12
OK, the title is stupid. It's not really about who has been killed here in the U.S. cali Jul 2013 #21
They tested and perfected it in the Middle East Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #6
And everyone you know, and everyone they know, and everyone they know. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #7
If a cellphone is off, even the NSA can't find it. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #9
Have to remove the battery. Downwinder Jul 2013 #14
Not in 2004 and probably not today. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #20
cellphones can be turned on warrprayer Jul 2013 #15
Sure they can, got to wrap them in tin foil Progressive dog Jul 2013 #18
Google is your friend... warrprayer Jul 2013 #19
Reading what you find on google is the point. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #22
... warrprayer Jul 2013 #23
The phone wsas bugged, that is how it worked, Progressive dog Jul 2013 #27
Oh great. I feel much safer now. Thanks for that splaination. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #24
I'm glad it made you feel better. Progressive dog Jul 2013 #26
secret surveillance processed by secret software determines who is a "threat"... tk2kewl Jul 2013 #10
Skynet ...coming soon ...to a planet ...where you tried to live. L0oniX Jul 2013 #13
radio transmission has been used for targetting since about 1950 markiv Jul 2013 #11
... warrprayer Jul 2013 #16
Next time I go to Yemen I'm leaving my cell phone behind NoPasaran Jul 2013 #17
USA. nt. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #25

Response to kpete (Original post)

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
4. Very important article.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 10:42 AM
Jul 2013

We the People formed a more perfect Union to stay away from this kind of thing.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
8. List of US Citizens extrajudicially executed as a result of NSA or drones:
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 11:39 AM
Jul 2013

These killings have been abroad, but these things proceed incrementally.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/eric-holder-americans-killed-drones/story?id=19236300

Attorney General Eric Holder has disclosed in a letter to Congress that four Americans were killed by U.S. drones in the course of the government's attacks on terrorists.

"Since 2009, the United States, in the conduct of U.S. counterterrorism operations against al-Qaida and its associated forces outside of areas of active hostilities, has specifically targeted and killed one U.S. citizen, Anwar al-Aulaqi," Holder wrote.

"The United States is further aware of three other U.S. citizens who have been killed in such U.S. counterterrorism operations over that same time period: Samir Khan, 'Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaki and Jude Mohammed. These individuals were not (it is claimed) specifically targeted by the United States," Holder wrote.


Previous to 2009, http://www.juancole.com/2013/05/continue-targeted-killing.html

At least three additional US citizens have been killed in US drone attacks. In the first ever drone strike outside a battlefield, US citizen Kamal Darwish was among six men killed by the CIA in Yemen in 2002. The Bush administration insisted at the time that the intended targets were alleged al Qaeda suspects accompanying Darwish in the vehicle.

And veteran Washington reporter Bob Woodward has revealed that on November 7 2008, ‘many Westerners, including some US passport holders’ died in an attack near Miranshah in North Waziristan.

As Woodward noted in his book Obama’s Wars, in a subsequent meeting with Pakistan’s President Zardari ‘The CIA would not reveal the particulars due to the implications under American law. A top secret CIA map detailing the attacks had been given to the Pakistanis. Missing from it was the alarming fact about the American deaths … The CIA was not going to elaborate.’
 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
12. not yet, anyway
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 12:50 PM
Jul 2013

but if they ever do, they'll be the first to tell us about it

this administration is all about transparency

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
21. OK, the title is stupid. It's not really about who has been killed here in the U.S.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 01:10 PM
Jul 2013

It's about the technology and who controls its use, and who will potentially control it. It's about signature strikes that are happening now. I realize that some not very sharp people are as placidly OK with all of this as cows grazing in a Vermont field. Forgive me if I don't find that terribly reassuring. Too many times in history, surveillance has turned internal with disastrous results. That it may not happen is no reason to be complacent.

 

Arctic Dave

(13,812 posts)
6. They tested and perfected it in the Middle East
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 11:24 AM
Jul 2013

under the pretense of TWOT, now they will use it elsewhere.

Just like they prison state they made Iraq.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
7. And everyone you know, and everyone they know, and everyone they know.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 11:38 AM
Jul 2013

But it is just "meta data".

They fear a general uprising against the kleptocracy far more than jihadist idiots.

Progressive dog

(6,904 posts)
9. If a cellphone is off, even the NSA can't find it.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 12:41 PM
Jul 2013

It doesn't need to be put in a refrigerator, if it has no power it can't put out a signal, if it can't put out a signal no one can track it.

Progressive dog

(6,904 posts)
20. Not in 2004 and probably not today.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 01:09 PM
Jul 2013

It would be possible to make a cellphone that didn't really turn off, the problem becomes how you keep that hidden from the user and why would the manufacturer do this.

warrprayer

(4,734 posts)
15. cellphones can be turned on
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 12:56 PM
Jul 2013

via the CALEB back door without even indicating that they have been turned on to the user. Taking out the battery is the only surefire way to turn them off.

Progressive dog

(6,904 posts)
22. Reading what you find on google is the point.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 01:10 PM
Jul 2013

To access the microphone, the phone must be on. Let me repeat, the phone must be on!!

warrprayer

(4,734 posts)
23. ...
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 01:13 PM
Jul 2013

"The surveillance technique came to light in an opinion published this week by U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan. He ruled that the "roving bug" was legal because federal wiretapping law is broad enough to permit eavesdropping even of conversations that take place near a suspect's cell phone.

Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off." Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set. "

from the cnet link

Progressive dog

(6,904 posts)
27. The phone wsas bugged, that is how it worked,
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 02:19 PM
Jul 2013

the phone had been modified to TRANSMIT the output of the microphone to a RECEIVER.
If an alarm is set and it wasn't a secret on-it turned on for a purpose and sounded an alarm-- like hey I'm bugging you now. Not fully powered down is far away from on.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
24. Oh great. I feel much safer now. Thanks for that splaination.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jul 2013

I've also figured out that if I just stop using all of the tech invented since 1978 my privacy won't be invaded and I'll be safe from intrusive mass domestic surveillance in clear violation of the 4th amendment, except of course that my failure to be "on the grid" will set off a red flag and result in more traditional physical surveillance techniques.

Again, thanks for -splaining this.

Progressive dog

(6,904 posts)
26. I'm glad it made you feel better.
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 02:12 PM
Jul 2013

Did they write the 4th amendment before or after telephones, telegraphs, or other electronic communications?
Anyway, they have to catch Eddie before they go after you, so if they stop talking about him that would be the time to go off the grid.
They might even use your home wiring as a microphone and read what you say from the voice frequency modulation on the power lines, the only way to stop this would be the main circuit breaker unless they can turn that back on too.

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
10. secret surveillance processed by secret software determines who is a "threat"...
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 12:42 PM
Jul 2013

then secret robots eliminate the "threat"

it won't be long before we start eliminating the middlemen and let the machines take care of it all.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
11. radio transmission has been used for targetting since about 1950
Mon Jul 22, 2013, 12:48 PM
Jul 2013

it's what 'CONELRAD' was all about, alternating emergency broadcast tower use so that enemy bombers couldnt use them for zeroing in on targets

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONELRAD

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»NSA Collecting All the In...