Reinstate the Selective Service "Draft."

[jonthebru]

Last edited Thu Jul 25, 2013, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Representative John Conyers and others have in the past tried to reinstate the selective service and the draft. The concept is that if everyone was in for being drafted there would never be stupid wars. The "Professional" Military and those who it is in bed with, the Industrial complex are one of the major problems with our nation. The problem is as seen with these recent wars that not every citizen has a stake in them. A whole scale draft to say the least would remedy that situation. As crazy as it sounds it is a little like the frickin' fascists saying their anti women's rights bills "protect" Women.

On the anti war draft bill (2003)
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/01/03/575/58810/militarydraft/Conyers-Joins-Rangel-in-Call-for-Draft


On the Frickin' fascists belief that they are all things to every Woman. (Within the last few weeks.)
http://occupydemocrats.com/republicans-sneaking-abortion-bills-through-america/

Many of the comments make my point. DU being a microcosm of our culture, the idea of a draft is repugnant. My point and I believe Rep Conyers point as well is to get everybody involved to have skin in the game as it were. It will take much more than this to get out Country to stop creating useless wars that destroy lives and waste money.

[cyberswede]

1. "butthole buddy?"

You couldn't think of a better descriptor?

[xfundy]

6. I have to agree.

[Gravitycollapse]

14. A little homophobia tends to spice things up.

[Scootaloo]

2. So long as we pick up right where we left off in the 70's!

Yup, find out the last number pulled... and start the new pull with the person immediately after that one. No deferments or exemptions, mind you. People like Conyers want the draft back, well, then they can be at the front of the line down at the recruitment office.

[xfundy]

8. So people too old to be effective should be drafted?

Interesting lack of logic there.

How about we force all young men, on their 18th birthdays, to become eligible for the draft, as it was in the good old days? Except senators, etc's sons and rats like Cheney can't be exempt, can't claim "other priorities."

That would be an equal thing, would it not?

[Scootaloo]

18. Oh, it's perfectly logical

From what i've seen, every single person who calls for a reinstatement of conscription is someone who traditionally would be considered "too old." There shouldn't be age discrimination either, should there? After all, as Geraldo recently showed us, 70 is the new 50, medicine's come a long way since 1973, and gosh there are so many of these people, and like you, there are so many of them who thump their chests and talk about patriotic service! So... Why deny them?

By all means - let's have a truly equal draft. One that is not sexist nor ageist. We pick up where we left off - people born in 1954. My suspicion is, after a few grandpas are wheeled out the back of a plane in a box, their fellows in congress - who will not be exempt, because I agree with your opposition to "other priorities!" - will suddenly remember why they opposed it in the first place.

Sorry, there's just something fundamentally fucking wrong with middle-aged shitbags who never got conscripted and who are too old to get called, demanding that conscription be reinstated so other people's children can go get blown up in some shithole backwater portion of the planet. It displays a severe lack of ethics, bordering on sociopathy. That so many of these assholes, so many of these messed-up motherfuckers call themselves "liberal"? It boggles my mind.

[LeftofObama]

23. I wish I could reccommend this reply!

Perfect!

[Javaman]

38. +1000!!! nt

[onpatrol98]

32. Maybe the point is...

It's time for old men to stop thinking of ways to send our children into war, period. You want to stop war. You don't have to go grab someone's unsuspecting child to send to his death to end war. JUST STOP FUNDING WAR. It will stop.

A NEW DRAFT is akin to this other stupid idea they had a few months ago. You know the one...we'll create a plan to reduce the deficit that is so heinous we'll do anything to avoid it happening...sequestration. What happened? It wasn't heinous enough to stop it from happening. So, the bright idea is to try the same idea with people's lives..."It will be so horrible, we'll stop war."

No it won't. Because they will always find a way out for themselves. So, yes. I agree. The only new draft I will support better put every single congress critter who agrees with this idea on the front line.

In fact, I believe that will stop war. From the White House, Senate, and the House of Representatives. Get a white horse for every single male or female interested in going to war and let them lead the troops into battle. Charge!!! THEN, they'll use a lot more discretion as to when and where we'll go to war, and who we give weapons to.

International Headline: The US has stunningly declared WAR unconstitutional.

[Go Vols]

3. Draft = less money

for the private Army.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

4. John 'Stop Collecting Data' Conyers wants to collect people against their will

and force them into armed conflict?

What a stand-up guy.

[xfundy]

9. Wow.

Are you that ignorant of history?

Our fathers and/or grandfathers considered it the highest duty to defend their country.

You gonna outsource your duty?

[RedCappedBandit]

19. What was the last war the nation has fought

in which our troops 'defended' this country?

[Scootaloo]

30. Good question!

"Unlisted" drone wars in Pakistan and Yemen - OPTIONAL
Iraq invasion - OPTIONAL
Afghanistan - OPTIONAL
Bosnia / Kosovo - Asked to intervene by allies for humanitarian reasons, I'm going with "defensive" here
Haiti - OPTIONAL
Somalia - OPTIONAL
Gulf War - IFFY - Intervened to protect Saudi Arabia, after letting Kuwait get fucked by our other friend, Saddam
Panama - OPTIONAL
Libya - OPTIONAL
Grenada - OPTIONAL
Lebanon - OPTIONAL
Cambodia - OPTIONAL
Vietnam - OPTIONAL
Korea - IFFY - Was a defensive line until Chinese involvement
World War 2 - Iffy, leaning to defensive - We were attacked, but it's possible the attack could have been avoided
Archangel Invasion - OPTIONAL
World War 1 - OPTIONAL
Everything between WWI and the Civil War - Not just OPTIONAL, sometimes blatantly GENOCIDAL
Civil War - DEFENSIVE; south Carolina fired upon a Union fort.
Utah War - OPTIONAL
Japan - OPTIONAL
Mexico - FUCKING DEFINITION OF OPTIONAL
Second Barbary Wars - DEFENSIVE - the Bey of Algiers declared war on us. Pops.
1812 - OPTIONAL
First Barbary Wars - DEFENSIVE
First round of "Indian Wars" - OPTIONAL
Revolutionary War - OPTIONAL

The last time US troops defended the United States was arguably World War 2. before that, the Civil War. In between is a broad stretch of colonialist, imperialist wars and engagements that should make ANY idiot who says "we fight more wars with a volunteer force!" blush with embarassment.

[Javaman]

40. Even better list...

List of wars involving the United States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

[onpatrol98]

34. I actually did enlist, by the way.

New draft = dumb idea.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

39. Damned straight I will. All of that nonsense doesn't mean jack to me. nt

[McPops]

5. I'm not sure this is a bad idea.

Too many kids with time on their hands getting into trouble. I figure that if you can't get into college and you can't get a job, then maybe the military isn't such a bad deal. They would get free meals and pay and long-term benefits. And giving them a chance to see what the world looks like beyond their own neighborhood would have its rewards.

It would decimate gang membership in this country. Why even bother joining a gang if you are going to be shipped off when you turn 18 because you couldn't be productive?

Not sure the military wants all of them, though.

What I especially like about this idea is that I am too old to get drafted. That just seals it for me.

[Pelican]

7. Make an intentionally inefficient army...

Great plan...

[McPops]

13. Inefficient?

How would it be inefficient?

[Pelican]

21. On a daily basis I work through the BS of people who volunteered to be here...

I can't even imagine the bitches, gripes and complaints of someone forced over here.

You want the "right" wars? Then elect the "right" leaders. There's no need to hang a stone on my neck...

[Brother Buzz]

42. Draftees bitched and complained, but they did their job with a high degree of integrity

All soldiers bitch and complain, that's their nature, only draftees maintained a moral and ethical high ground to bitch and complain.

[Pelican]

43. right...

Only draftees have morals and ethics...

Bullshit...

[Brother Buzz]

10. This dumb draftee is against it but the late Colonel Hackworth had an interesting perspective

"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price Of admission." - Colonel Hackworth, About Face

[Mojorabbit]

15. Great post! nt

[bluedigger]

22. Those are some valid points for a draft.

But I don't think Conyer's goal of reducing our lust for war by renewing the draft has much chance of succeeding.



We like war.

[catnhatnh]

25. Great quote...

There's a reason a real military leader like Hackworth ditched DC for Australia, and it has to do with relative bullshit levels...

[HeiressofBickworth]

11. I posted this response back in January

My opinion has not changed.

It is nothing more than involuntary servitude -- slavery. Exceedingly poor wages, working conditions that the EEOC and/or OSHA would never approve and the availability of these military slaves makes war all too readily possible to carry out.

If someone wants to volunteer for military service, and the facts of military life and women's chances of rape or sexual assault don't dissuade them, then I have no objections to anyone taking that step. Unfortunately, the military is allowed to lie to potential recruits about the availability of job training and/or education, giving potential recruits the wrongful impression that the military is a solution to a crappy civilian economy and lack of jobs with upward potential. They prey on young, impressionable kids who are facing an uncertain job market. If the military was made an actual equivalent job market with safety measures, commensurate salaries, and adequate after-service health care, then people might legitimately be recruited into service.

My opinion hasn't changed since my brother applied for conscientious objector status when he was 18 during the Vietnam war. Since we were all atheists, he was denied CO status since, at that time, only a couple of religions were allowed CO status. That later changed to "individual who has claimed the right to refuse to perform military service on the grounds of freedom of thought, conscience, and/or religion." He and my mother and sister moved to Australia the year he turned 18. My mother has since died but my brother and sister still live in Oz.

I remain opposed to a draft.

[Warpy]

12. Yeah, the peacetime draft worked really well to prevent wars

like Korea and Vietnam.

The main reason we didn't invade Iran is because we didn't have a draft. I'd like to keep it that way, clip the wings of the war hawks in the government and in the military.

No draft, not ever. There were a lot of great reasons we got rid of it.

Learn them.

[Gravitycollapse]

16. As the jury failed miserably here, I am kindly requesting that you remove "butthole buddy"...

from your post. It is a derogatory term for gay men and it is offensive. Please remove it.

[uppityperson]

17. SHAME! Spend the energy cutting the current wars rather than trying to persuade congress to

Last edited Wed Jul 24, 2013, 03:27 AM - Edit history (1)

pass draft legislation that is equitable and without loopholes for their own.

If you think they would pass such a thing, I have a bridge to sell you. Instead work toward passing legislation ending current wars and making it harder to get into more.

Throwing more bodies into the mill never ends wars. Stopping them from starting is the key instead.

As far as the "SHAME". "butthole buddy? Seriously? Why use such offensive term? Please delete that, thank you.

[Socal31]

20. Selective Service is still active and ready to go if necessary.

I had to register when I turned 18. You can be denied federal benefits if you are a male who did not register.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. We had a draft in the 1960's ...

... and so, there was no stupid war. Nothing happened in Vietnam.

John Conyers' theory needs some work.

[SamKnause]

26. Draft

NO !!!!

No one should be forced to fight in a war that enriches corrupt politicians and corrupt corporations.

Iraq was no threat to the United States.

Afghanistan was no threat to the United States.

Vietnam was no threat to the United States.

All of the Latin American countries that we destroyed with our coups and financial terrorism were no threat to the United States.

If people want to volunteer to fight for corporations and corrupt politicians, let them.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. "Selective service" is the exact opposite of universal service.

Even Conyers should know that.

[madville]

28. A draft is a waste of time these days

There are waiting lists to join all the services and they are looking to trim qualified volunteer members they already have who want to be there, why on earth would they want involuntary draftees?

[dairydog91]

29. How on Earth can someone argue that a draft reduces stupid wars?

All the major players who started WWI used conscription. Germany had conscription in place when it decided to give the ol' World War thing another try. Japan had conscription when it decided to charge into China in the 1930s (aka The Really BIG Version of the Vietnam War). The U.S. blundered into Vietnam with conscription still in place.

[Puzzledtraveller]

35. ^^this^^

[GreenStormCloud]

31. I remember when progressives wanted to end the draft...

...and conservatives wanted to keep it. The draft was a mistake then, and I still think it is a mistake.

[Puzzledtraveller]

33. Those were the days.

What the hell happened?

[Captain Stern]

36. I don't think this country will ever have another draft.

For the simple reason that it just wouldn't work any more.

The people that are eligible, by age, to be drafted now don't even remember the draft existing....it's just something out of a history book. Lots of their parents are young enough not to remember it either, and most of them that do remember it existing, probably weren't old enough to actually be eligible for it.

If we tried having a draft now, most of the folks selected just wouldn't show up. The numbers of people that would be in noncompliance would be so large that we just wouldn't have the resources to really do anything about it.

I think that's a good thing. I think that if we can't find enough people to fight a particular war voluntarily, then that's probably a good sign that it's a war we shouldn't be fighting. (of course that doesn't mean that just because we can find enough volunteers, that war is worth fighting)

[bluedeathray]

37. Part of me agrees with the concept of National Service

But it is immoral and wrong-headed on at least 2 levels:

1. Consider the institutions and practices we'd be defending.

2. If the nation can't get up enough people who agree with the issue at hand to join a defense, maybe we ought to reconsider it.

Peace out.

[Javaman]

41. This BS gets floated every 6 months to a year.

and all it does is get peoples bile up for no good reason other than to stir up shit.

Please, to the OP and all other DU members, stop posting this inane stance.

[jonthebru]

44. So, just remember

Freedom of speech does not exist here unless this person agrees to it!
Got it, get it? Good!

[Javaman]

45. did I say they couldn't post it? No.

I was just pointing out the inanity of this post and how it serves no useful purpose other than to shake out the crazy in DU.

I was making a request, not demanding.

So, how is your day?

[Lurks Often]

46. Not this stupid idea again

The only people who want a draft are those with the mistaken idea that a draft would reduce our chances of getting into a war. History disproves that theory, since we had plenty of wars prior to the elimination of the draft in the 1970's.

The only thing a draft will do is get more Americans dead.

Anybody wanting a draft should be the FIRST people drafted, regardless of their age or gender, and sent to the front lines with a rifle.