I'M THE 14-YEAR-OLD WHO WROTE THE "JESUS ISN'T A DICK SO KEEP HIM OUT OF MY VAGINA" SIGN IN TEXAS AN

[Bennyboy]

WAS LABELED A "WHORE" BY STRANGERS ONLINE

My dad came to my defense online, but for the first time I am outing myself publicly. I'm 14. Please stop calling me a whore.


Tuesday Cain

I'm a 14-year-old girl who has lived in Austin, Texas, my whole life. I like art, music and talking on the phone with my friends. When I grow up, I'd like to become a science teacher.

I also believe in the right to choose and the separation of church and state. Or to put it another way -- to put it the way I wrote it when I was protesting at the Capitol last week:

"Jesus isn't a dick so keep him out of my vagina."

Yes, that's my sign.

I came up with it last week when my friend and I were trying to think of ideas for what would get people's attention to protest the scary restrictions that are happening in my state trying to take away a woman's right to safe and accessible abortions.

more: http://www.xojane.com/issues/billy-cain-tuesday-cain-jesus-isnt-a-dick-so-keep-him-out-of-my-vagina

[MotherPetrie]

1. K&R. Great slogan.

[marshall]

7. Vagina is a little too formal

Stylistically I think it would sound better to use a word that more closely matches the tone of "dick." But the sentiment is great.

[MotherPetrie]

41. Such as?

[BlueJazz]

56. sorry, wrong person

[marshall]

91. Take your pick

There are many choices that would match the informal tone, and be equally as provocative.

[MotherPetrie]

96. What are the choices to pick from?

[marshall]

102. Anything less formal than a medical term

And something that might be used by a young person in the same context and with as much childlike whimsy as "dick." And it doesn't have to be vulgar--better that it not be, because as Third Rock from the Sun showed us, making puns on the word dick (even in reference to Jesus) is not necessarily vulgar.

Maybe some would say its over thinking it, but I edit writing everyday, and look for balance of tone in word choice. So in that light, if other choices don't leap to mind, and avoiding terms I find too vulgar for this context, I might suggest the now popular vajayjay, or older terms like coochie, or more childish terms like woowoo.

[MotherPetrie]

117. I totally disagree. I think her slogan was worded perfectly.

[marshall]

126. It is certainly effective in conveying her thoughts

And it plays on the bizarre notion was somehow sexless.

[nomorenomore08]

172. "That Jesus was somehow sexless"? Is that what you meant?

Just clarifying. And I agree it's bizarre, especially considering the presence of Mary Magdalene in his life.

[marshall]

173. I've found that many people don't like to think of Jesus as a man

With man parts. So her phrase has two meanings--it lampoons the notion that Jesus lacks a penis, while it also conveys the belief that he was kind (i.e., not a dick). I love double meanings in writing.

[nomorenomore08]

176. Gotcha. Whatever one believes about Jesus' divinity - I've never bought into it myself, even being

raised/educated Catholic - there's no reason to think he wasn't just like any other man, libido and all.

[Quantess]

97. No. (no text)

[NYtoBush-Drop Dead]

150. The oak state senator said it best

"If I wanted the government in my womb, I'd fuck a Senator.

[Zorra]

2. You go, grrrrl. nt

[Coyotl]

98. Here she is with her Dad and the sign

[freshwest]

108. Those haters HATE JESUS! She spoke truth!

Thanks for keeping us up to date on what's going on down there, Coyotl. A long hot summer is in full swing. When it cools off, take these RWNJs out of office!

[justiceischeap]

3. You know, it's kinda sad that a 14-year-old girl has more sense on this subject

than most adults. How does anyone justify calling a child a whore because you disagree with her opinion? Especially if you belong to the "moral minority?"

[kentauros]

18. Because they think that they (and they alone) "know" Jesus,

and she shamed them. She basically told them "they don't know dick" about Jesus, and they can't stand that kind of shaming/truth.

They may be "moral minority" but they have single-digit EQs (Emotion Quotients.) A friend of mine came up with the EQ idea, and that politicians most often have low-EQs due to how childlike they often act (think of Boehner's threats and tantrums.) These people are acting like spoiled children. And so, where's that rod?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

76. They have low IQs, too.

Lets not let them get off easily

[Dash87]

4. They don't care. She's still a whore to them.

Actually, having a vagina makes you a whore to them. Watch the nuts attack her even more now...

[snooper2]

5. Well, her heart is in the right place...but REALLY

he kind of is

[dionysus]

9. .

[AtheistCrusader]

10. That is AMAZING

[ismnotwasm]

11. Oh..... Hell, that's where I'm headed

Because

[RC]

15. That's the real Jesus.

You can tell because he looks Caucasian, you know like a real American does.

[calimary]

35. Absolutely! Just ask ann coulter! I mean, she knows! She's seen the pictures!

He's got blue eyes and white skin and light-to-medium brown hair with no split ends and a perfectly trimmed beard! He's Super-Anglo! White-bread Jesus. Wonder Bread Jesus! For us nice Americans. (You know, us white people!)

(<<< Just in case anybody misinterprets.)

[arely staircase]

83. you know why jesus was a northern european in all the old paintings?

because the models that posed for them were. why he is still depicted that way is another story.

[MADem]

125. He looks like Peter Fonda in those sketches!

He should look more like a youthful Yassir Arafat...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/1282186

Matthew's description of the events in Gethsemane offers an obvious clue to the face of Jesus. It is clear that his features were typical of Galilean Semites of his era. And so the first step for Neave and his research team was to acquire skulls from near Jerusalem, the region where Jesus lived and preached. Semite skulls of this type had previously been found by Israeli archeology experts, who shared them with Neave.

With three well-preserved specimens from the time of Jesus in hand, Neave used computerized tomography to create X-ray "slices" of the skulls, thus revealing minute details about each one's structure. Special computer programs then evaluated reams of information about known measurements of the thickness of soft tissue at key areas on human faces. This made it possible to re-create the muscles and skin overlying a representative Semite skull.

The entire process was accomplished using software that verified the results with anthropological data. From this data, the researchers built a digital 3D reconstruction of the face. Next, they created a cast of the skull. Layers of clay matching the thickness of facial tissues specified by the computer program were then applied, along with simulated skin. The nose, lips and eyelids were then modeled to follow the shape determined by the underlying muscles.

Read more: The Real Face Of Jesus - What Did Jesus Look Like? - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at PopularMechanics.com

[Wait Wut]

22. Good thing I didn't see these about 30 years ago.

I would've remained a Christian.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

25. that right there is some funny shit

[opiate69]

28. I literally lol'd... my boss thinks I'm losing it! great stuff!

[Apophis]

30. Thanks for the chortle!

[libodem]

81. LOLOLOL

Snort.

[tridim]

85. I think that's Jim Morrison.

There's your problem.

LMAO @ "Shut the fuck up Jesus". That's so "The Dude".

[surrealAmerican]

92. Where did you find those?

[nomorenomore08]

93. That is fucking amazing! Where'd you find that?

[RedRocco]

112. one of my favorites

[img][/img]

[Coyotl]

139. Jesus has a real spelling problem

Guess those Egyptian schools weren't so awesome after all

[bettyellen]

116. whoa awesome- can you link me to these?

[awoke_in_2003]

128. STFU Jesus is my favorite. nt

[hifiguy]

130. ROTFLMAO!

[Just Saying]

6. Whore is what some people call any woman

Who stands up for the right to make her own choices about her body and health. This young lady is in very good company and I'm so proud of her!

I see a future Texas leader right there!

[calimary]

36. And "bitch" will be next.

People in the business end of Hollywood used to describe Barbra Streisand as "bitch." And she said it was because she stood up for herself and asserted her rights to direct, write, and run things and not just be a pretty voice. In other words, she was doing what all the big-shot men were doing, only THEY were called "powerful," "ballsy," "smart," "assertive," "shrewd," and so forth. When SHE did it, she was called "bitch."

[niyad]

105. when I am called a bitch, I just look and reply, "but. . .you say that like it's a bad thing"

one of my friends always replies, "akc registered, darling"

[calimary]

120. Love your reply!

AND your friend's, too!

[niyad]

121. one of my favourite buttons reads: "I am not A bitch, I am THE bitch--and to you, I am MS. BITCH"

it confuses the hell out of people who think they are going to insult you when you have no problem with the words they use, and I have heard them all.

[Wednesdays]

8. Now, that's ironic

Being called a "whore" for wanting to keep something OUT of one's vagina.

[kentauros]

20. They're not too good at using a thesaurus,

mostly because they think it was a type of dinosaur that lived with Jesus back in the day

[blackspade]

110. Don't you mean ridden by Jesus?

[RedRocco]

113. no, that would be a jesarus n/t

[blackspade]

114. golf clap....

[kentauros]

134. "golf clap"!

[kentauros]

133. If it lived with Jesus,

I'm sure He rode it!

Now, how do you break a wild thesaurus...?

[riqster]

136. The Thesaurus is a fearsome beast.

Just ask Frito, Spam, Moxie and Pepsi.

[kentauros]

138. That brings back memories!

However, it also brings back the memory that I got bored with "Bored of the Rings" and didn't finish the book. I think I got about halfway through it.

[TNNurse]

135. Sorry

but irony is lost on those closed minded people. They apparently do not have the capacity to understand.

[dembotoz]

12. read the link its very nice

[ismnotwasm]

13. K&R

[Hulk]

14. PROUD of you!

I'm a father of four wonderful kids; two daughters and two sons, and I'd be damned proud if any one of them were YOU! It took some "grit" and determination to stand up and shout out to the folks in this country who are so simple minded, puritanical and ignorant - and THOSE are the ones who resort to name calling.

You used the word "vagina", and you see, nobody is supposed to use that word out loud. Especially a young girl. They are so offended by that, that they totally forget the issue, and you are now their target of hate and ignorance.

This, my young lady, is what this country has devolved to. I'm a retired elementary school teacher, and I wish I had had the opportunity to know you and your family. I'd be damned proud to stand by your side. But I'm so turned off by this activity in Texas and around this country, that I'd have chronic heart burn if I had to be surrounded by such fools. It's bad enough where I live up here in the Pacific Northwest.

I often debate my neighbors, who are mostly fox-nonsense fools; and you know something, I'll probably NEVER win persuading them to consider something other than what they have deep seeded in their simple minds. I'm straying; but bless your heart. Bless your courage and don't be hurt by their insults; because they will throw insults at you. It's all they have.

Proud of you. And you should be proud of yourself! But don't expect it to come easy, cause there are some evil, angry and despicable low-lifes in this world; and they will do anything they can to hurt you - verbally. Just let it blow off your shoulders, and remember: "sticks and stones".

Good for you!!

[decrepittex]

115. I couldn't have said it better

I think she is a girl most fathers would be proud of. I just wish there were many more like her in Texas. Our state government seems to have gone totally bonkers. It's great when people like this young lady stand up to the ole' boys club and the religious taliban.

[bunnies]

16. You tell em, Tuesday.

Well done.

[LittleBlue]

17. Let them out themselves as extremists

Let the world see these sickos attack a teenage girl. Feel bad for the girl, though, being called a whore. Hope she knows she's taking one for the team on this, and we all appreciate it.

[Stainless]

19. I can only wish my 16 Yr Old Grandaughter had your intelligence.........

Keep on making your daddy proud young lady!

[Raffi Ella]

21. The next generation, hopeful and inspiring.

Good on her.

[Coyotl]

141. Even if people don't change, at least the old ones die

One of my favorite political axioms There's hope

[Raffi Ella]

166. ha, right?

I'm liking the New Ones.

[H2O Man]

23. Rec #50!

Beautiful!

[NM_Birder]

24. The sign is......

as class-less and offensive as the legislation it is protesting.

I don't Applaud a 14 year old girl holding a sign "Jesus isn't a dick so keep him out of my vagina". The sign is meant to piss off as many people as possible, in order to bring attention to the unfair Texas legislation, and I'm sure it will be successful in polarizing the issue even further, bravo.

At some point in time I hope protesting becomes more about changing minds thru rational thought and example, instead of who can exhibit the most extreme example of shock.

14 years old,..... her sign is repulsive to me.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

26. As opposed to medical rape?

I think the kid is showing admirable restraint...

[NM_Birder]

72. You may misunderstand my point.

I don't have an issue with her intended message, nor her desire to be involved in the debate. My objection is in the use of such shockingly vulgar language by a 14 year old girl.

I'll bet she likes the attention this gets her, and eventually she will have to be MORE shocking and vulgar the next time to stand out. That's not a lesson I appreciate nor encourage in kids. She is still a kid, assuming she is the prophecy child, just because she can be vulgar and her dad approves does not make sense to me. "And a child will lead them",...that's an actual post on this thread.

if this is admirable restraint in your opinion,....we simply have different lines of acceptable behavior for 14 year old girls.

"Medical Rape" ?..that is a slogan that has a point to the topic. However it's not shocking enough to compete with the 14 year old's "Jesus isn't a dick keep him out my vagina", approval crowd. Popular opinion says you need to up the wattage.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

77. I understand your point entirely....

Had she used less-shocking language, her point would have gone completely unnoticed.

And by "admirable restraint," I meant that if I were a woman, the first motherfucker who can at me with a probe would be picking tiny pieces of lead out of his skull.

I admire anybody who stands up for her rights and takes shit from nobody.

[NM_Birder]

79. How shocking would you encourage...

a 14 year old girl to be ? Because we both know that her comment will indeed SHOCK, but ultimately have no effect on the debate.

Send her a pistol then, so "the first motherfucker" that comes at her with a probe can "pick tiny pieces of lead out his skull".

I see now why you approve of her method. You only say that for SHOCK, and attention, if you believed any of what you just said you would go see "any motherfucker" that goes at a woman with a probe. But...since we are not women,......fuck it.

[noiretextatique]

27. blah, blah, blah

blah blah blah blah blah

[hueymahl]

40. LOL

[noiretextatique]

60. that's an even better response

[nomorenomore08]

95. +1

I only wish they'd said something stupid enough to be alert-able.

[NM_Birder]

170. I agree, I didn't say anything stupid, ..... whats stopping you ?

[nomorenomore08]

171. I (and others) just think you kind of missed the point here. That's all.

Focusing on the "vulgarity" of the sign rather than the conditions which made it necessary.

[NM_Birder]

174. The entire thread,...

Is chock full of people praising this girl for her courage to hold up that sign. I applaud her desire and passion for wanting to be a part of the experience, I admit I was not that motivated to engage the political system at that age. She has the poise and desire that many don't.

If people are allowed to be so inspired by a 14 year old girl's ability to use graphic vulgarity, I am also allowed to voice my opinion as well. There are several attempts to invoke some sort of reaction, just for the sake of getting to alert on someone. There was no conversational value, nor opinion related substance......pure desire to point fingers and cleanse the general opinion flow.

Who knows, maybe you did "alert" on me, and I'm being watched like the eye in the sky right now for signs of non-conformity - I wouldn't have any idea.

You wished me to say something "stupid" so you could pounce and alert. Keep following me, I'm sure I'll say something else you don't like and you can tell on me then.

[nomorenomore08]

177. I didn't alert on you, and I won't. And it's not about "conformity" - it's about what's really vital

here, i.e. women's basic rights as full citizens and full human beings. Compared with that, how could anyone possibly be worried about a PG-level "naughty" word?

[opiate69]

31. Where exactly is your lawn?

Just so I can better keep off it...

[cliffordu]

32. Good thing your opinion means just about dick.

[NM_Birder]

43. Wow, you impress me. I bet you impress everybody.

[cliffordu]

46. It should be "I'll bet" or mebbe "I'd bet"

But yes, I do impress just about everyone. And their bodies.

Have fun during your stay at DU!!

[NM_Birder]

50. LOL,..."mebbe" ?? you made my day, Cheers !

.

[cliffordu]

52. Yep - Mebbe- Sort of an innernets slang I use,

like the word 'innernets'

I believe you are becoming clearer by the minute.

[NM_Birder]

57. happy days, mebbe I'll get to talk to you again.

[cliffordu]

62. Mebbe not. It's a fine line we all walk.

[NM_Birder]

64. What line ? i believe in my own opinion.

[Raffi Ella]

33. ha, I am so glad this got your attention...

You seem to not like a lot of things We like; Al Sharpton, The NAACP, you think the media drummed up the Trayvon Martin murder and this quote of yours is quite something too:

"It's really surprising, and honestly quite shocking how many here, openly display an ignorance of facts, just to be able to put on an outraged performance. "

You're putting quite a performance on yourself there. Welcome to DU.

[NM_Birder]

38. How about "keep your cross out my cu*t" ? ....

It's all about where do people draw lines, this girl and her sign crossed mine, not yours. I would NOT approve of my daughter holding that sign.

I'm flattered you took the time to research me so completely.

I gave rational, coherent reason why I think the way I do, regarding every one of my opinions you note.

I'm guessing you didn't read the explanation I gave for the NAACP comment did you ? You would have won me another lunch.

However with regards to the the Martin case, I said very directly, that Zimmerman killed Martin unjustifiably, and manslaughter should never have been a question.... in my mind, and I said it over, and over and over and over. "you think the media drummed up the Tr avon Murder" that's hardly accurate a description of the multiple comments I've made, nor the argument I made, over and over and over. Kindly give me the facts that proves Zimmerman to be a racist, and if "black teenager with skittles" is all you have then don't bother.

White Hispanic, edited 911 calls...yeah that was an example of swinging for the fence before the ball was pitched. Murder 2, unattainable with the facts of the case. The prosecution ? unimpressive. the prosecution's witness accounts ? They DEFINED "reasonable doubt". Offering manslaughter after the half-assed prosecutions performance ? desperate. They lost it, and is was theirs to lose.

And Al Sharpton ? He may be your hero, but he ain't mine, and I'm not ashamed to say that.

I will NOT, "adjust my opinion to fit the general flow of other DU'ers", did you catch that too ?

[Raffi Ella]

45. Again, I am SO glad this thread got your attention.

You seem to argue with and have a contrary opinion to almost all who you come into contact with at DU...what's the constant in that equation?

[NM_Birder]

51. I have my own mind.

[Raffi Ella]

53. and we don't, got it.

You are just a delight!

[NM_Birder]

58. awww, you don't mean that. But I like the sentiment.

[calimary]

44. Well, then perhaps a lot of US here at DU will be repulsive to you, too.

That smart, courageous, assertive, valiant young girl certainly calls it the way I see it, myself. And many others here feel the same way. Many women in Texas feel the same way. Many women EVERYWHERE feel the same way. And sometimes maybe we have to say shocking things to get the unthinking masses to stop for a moment and notice (and perhaps also, start paying more attention).

I not only don't want the teabaggers and mysogynists' version of "Jesus" in my vagina, I don't want the frickin' Pope in my vagina - and I'm a lifelong-even-if-rather-lapsed Catholic. I don't want the President in my vagina (regardless of his party affiliation), I don't want the governor (of ANY state regardless of party affiliation) in my vagina. I don't want any state legislators, federal legislators, federal or state or local regulators, the city council or frickin' school board, or ANY self-appointed moralist, ayatolla, or mullah here in America or elsewhere in my vagina.

That little piece of real estate from my shoulders to my knees belongs ONLY TO ME, and the jurisdiction over it and the last word over it and EVERY decision regarding it is MINE and MINE ALONE. This is not open for debate. This is NON-NEGOTIABLE. This is an ABSOLUTE, even in a world in which there are few absolutes. This is absolutely one of them.

I find her sign strengthening and reaffirming. I'm THRILLED that young girls who'll grow up to help run this country feel the way she does. That way, the rights my generation (I'm 60 now) fought and marched and protested and lobbied and petitioned for will be protected and sustained for later generations. Including HERS. GOOD on her! Hey, before you know it, you might see ME out there standing next to her, with a similar sign of my own.

And Welcome to DU, btw. Not sure you'll be very comfortable here, but there it is.

[NM_Birder]

61. perhaps you will be repulsed by me,

But I don't like a 14 year old girl holding that sign.

How about "keep your cross out my cu*t" ? That's even MORE shocking, when is "shocking" shocking enough ?

[calimary]

70. Nah - not at all!

Might disagree with you but certainly not repulsed by any means!

And if you really wanna know, the question you just posed is a REALLY good one. WHEN is "shocking" shocking enough? When is provoking just for the sake of provoking - enough? I see that in the entertainment biz all the time. I've never forgotten a quote from Madonna when she was just starting out and she was big on pushing the envelope until it didn't look like an envelope anymore. And when asked about it - "Madonna, why do you wear your bra and corset and slip outside your clothes and the rosary around your neck?" - she answered "I want to provoke." And now almost any female singer you see anywhere appears in public in her underwear. So how's she gonna provoke next time? So then you'll have Lady Gaga wearing meat. And Rihanna wearing next to nothing at all. And it goes on from there.

At some point, it just loses its effect, I think, and people become so jaded they see that and they're unimpressed, even bored. I went to a rock music expo awhile back where it soon degenerated into - "okaaaaaaaaayyy, when will we have reached the 'Too Loud' and 'Too Growly' and 'Too Surly' level?" And when they do, all I feel like doing is finding myself a good cream pie to throw in their faces.

Not sure I would put this girl's protest sign in that category, even while it seems shocking to some. But then again, what's going on that PROMPTED HER to make that sign - is what is REALLY shocking, and quite disgusting, at least to me. To the point of genuine outrage.

[NM_Birder]

75. thank you for your response......

I appreciate it, and agree with it, my tolerance for shock is different but in principle I think we agree.

The problem is, when the cream pie doesn't back people down, you 'll have to try rocks, and when THAT doesn't work....and so on and so on and so on. until eventually the other side skips pies, and goes straight to baseballs, and from there .....baseball bats.....and so on and so on and so on.

I think the outrage at unfair and unjust Texas legislation is real, and well deserved. My personal opinion though, is that egging on a 14 year old girl to be as vulgar and shocking as possible doesn't raise the debate to an adult level. I suspect her father was an influence in her choice of words, "no boundaries" is usually a risky proposition with teenagers.

Cheers, have a good day.

[calimary]

82. I guess it depends on the parenting. I read the story in the link, and it didn't appear as though

her father goaded her on or put words in her mouth, at least from my reading of it. Sounds like she's not the type of young woman who would allow someone else, especially a male someone else, to put words in her mouth. I applaud that. But it does suggest that she's grown up in a household where all things are open for discussion, even the coarser ones. I raised my own kids that way. NO subject was off limits. All those things one is told not to discuss in polite company - religion, sex, and politics - we talked about them all. MANY times. Kicked those ideas around all the time. At home, in the car, everywhere and anywhere. Like they say on NPR - "All Things Considered"!

It was an interesting exercise for me, and a seriously challenging on. They were both in Catholic school. I'm a lapsed Catholic. They had questions about all the provocative subjects, especially the ones in which real world stuff didn't quite square with what they were being taught - or what they knew some of the parents of their friends and fellow students felt about things. Some of their friends came from very conservative homes - either wealthy GOP supporters or devout religious believers, or both. During the bush/cheney years, when so many of their friends came from staunch bush supporters, it was REALLY challenging. Because I was pretty active in the local anti-war movement and took them both to rallies with me when they could come. And I suddenly discovered that it fell to me to try to explain stuff in as objective and even-handed a way as I could, attempting to avoid condemnation or slanted coverage - even slanted toward the broad-minded, feminist, pro-choice, pro-peace, etc.

They've grown up with broad minds of their own, and I'm VERY gratified, whether I had anything to do with that or not. Btw - some of those friends and classmates from conservative families wound up rebelling, dating outside their social class (gasp!) or race (OH! GOD! THE HORRORS!!!!!!), getting involved with all kinds of mixed-up stuff, leaving home, and cutting ties. A couple of 'em even OD'd. A few of them have NO relationships with their parents whatsoever. More still don't have any kind of relationship in which they feel they could talk to their parents openly and honestly, or ask about stuff that was really on their minds. Sometimes, later on, one or two of them would mention to me during carpool that they liked listening to what we talked about, and that they hadn't heard stuff like that, or considered it, before. I'm just grateful both my kids still want to speak to me and have me in their lives, now that they're grown up. You learn that they're far smarter and more observant than you ever expected. I think my daughter was nine or ten when she turned to me at one point and said "I like our talks!" That was one of the coolest things she's ever said to me!

And one more thing. I believe in keeping it to cream pies. Besides, baseball bats and so on aren't my thing. Desserts are my thing!

[NM_Birder]

87. I have no problem with "all topics on the table", I agree parenting should be that way.

I simply have a different shock tolerance than this parent. "Jesus isn't a dick so keep him out my vagina" is not the kind of language I would allow my 14year old daughter to use. Call me old, but 45 doesn't seem THAT old.

maybe when NPR has------ And now some "fucked up shit that will blow yeast out your sock hole" I'll give in and lighten up on my intolerance for vulgar language in debate......nah I won't,...... it's just the way I am. When the argument goes into shock and vulgarity, I lose respect for the deliverer of the message.

More compromise can be made over desert.. than bloodshed I admit it, I used bats for "shock" value, lol. take care.

[hunter]

103. Speaking from personal experience...

...14 years is well past the age a parent can "allow" anything other than "No way, I'm Not Paying for That!"

If one has a relationship with a kid, argument is possible, but the kid decides.

A parent has to build a foundation for open discussion many years before.

The golden age of "allowing" and "not allowing" ends soon in early adolescence. Try to be the enforcer after that and the kid simply jumps out the window and goes their own way. Unless they've been beaten down into subservience.

My kids never experienced subservience nor have they ever felt any need to jump out the window and flee.

[NM_Birder]

137. 14 is not past the age where a parent is still calling the shots,

A 14 year old kid is still being raised,... they have an opinion, a say, an argument, and beliefs... and I believe they need to be allowed to express whatever they have to say, in whatever way they choose........to a point. I don't take vulgarity for the sake of being vulgar seriously, it shows a lack of respect, and it makes BEING respected difficult. Where do you draw the line ? Is it OK for a 14 year old girl to tell her parent, 'Fuck you mom/dad, I'll be home for dinner whenever the fuck I please, I'm 14 and it's not like you can do shit about it anyways" ? Not in my house it isn't, without boundaries how far do you think a 14 year old girl is capable of pushing ? Pretty. Damn. Far.... has been my experience.

I simply have a different tolerance level than this parent, "Jesus isn't a dick so keep him out my vagina", to me is absolutely unacceptable language for a 14 year old girl to use. As an adult, cutting her own path in life she is free to be as vulgar, disgusting, and offensive as she chooses to get her point across. "I can say what I want, whenever I want, in whatever manner I want" is a 14 year old philosophy, but in the real world there are social rules of acceptability, not to everybody, ....but to me there are. And I'm the parent, not the kid.

I doubt very seriously you would go to a restaurant and expect to be served professionally, if you purposely tried to be as vulgar as possible. You can sure, that is your right, but we don't because there is a common line of civil courtesy,...manners.....they still matter to me.

Respect is earned, and appreciated,... and kids respond to mutual respect. A 14 year old kid is also testing the limits of their independence, having understood and mutual boundaries is not the same as being "beaten down into subservience".

[calimary]

123. OMG!!!!

"...maybe when NPR has------ And now some 'fucked up shit that will blow yeast out your sock hole'"

OMG!



Dammit, NM_Birder, you almost made me blow hot tea all over my computer!!!!!!

[NM_Birder]

149. ;) a little laugh makes all the difference, take care.

[niyad]

118. would love to see this as its own thread, so I can rec it!

[love_katz]

119. I LOVE you, calimary!

And, what you said, plus a gazillion.

[caseymoz]

65. The issue can't get more polarized.

So, there's no fear of that. The antichoicers have already taken the Lord's name in vain by invoking it into this argument.

The main problem with demanding rational argument to change minds is the one that does it unilaterally will lose. Should the pro-choice side be expected to engage in rational argument until all abortion and birth control are illegal? And then how many more decades should we engage in rational argument while they're illegal?

We've already been through the rational arguments in 1973-76. We find ourselves here because they've been rejected. A fetus is not a child, that's a no-brainer, no pun intended. They simply say no, pretend it is, and dehumanize you as you repeat the arguments.

[NM_Birder]

69. I have no issue with her desire to be involved, however

I do have a problem with a 14 year old girl holding a sign like that. How long before someone says she should be president, based solely on her ability to be "shocking"?

If everybody is shocking, then nobody is listening. And if shock is the only way to get a message out, then how far is "too far" in the "shock competition" ?

When "shock" eventually doesn't get the message across, maybe we should just throw a rock or two ? And if that doesn't work, maybe we up the auntie and stoop directly down to the lowest level possible and just call it what it is "the end justifies the means". Honest debate is rejected because the elected officials in the "honest debate" are not honest. THAT is what I think the problem is, stooping to a lower level in order to engage in a false fair debate isn't working.

I have people picking little squabbles, because I don't chant their opinions like a good little follower. Wanting a better solution and stating honest personal opinion didn't use to be so offensive, it used to be a conversation starter.

"Shock" arguments with people who live life by a bible will have no effect on their opinion, just like yelling at a block wall won't make it a window.

Thanks for your response, I appreciate it.

[caseymoz]

99. She's fourteen-years-old

Subtlety at that age is scarce. Socially, it doesn't exist. If she put that on the a sign, it's because that's the way she and her friends talk when adults aren't listening, and because at her age, shock is probably the only weapon in her arsenal. However, if any adult is shocked by that, there's something wrong with them.

I mean, what's wrong with the phrase? Is it the use of the word "dick?" Is it using Jesus and dick in the same phrase? Is it using Jesus, dick, and vagina? Surely adults have heard or told jokes that are worse. Is it suggestion that the anti-choicers are using Jesus as a rape instrument? That's metaphorical and a straw man, but it's easy to disprove.

No, this is what's shocking: it's a fourteen-year old female who's saying it. And if you listen to what they're calling her, it's apparent that her being female is what's driving their anger. If I, as a male, said something similar (keep Jesus out of my corn hole), they would have no trouble ignoring it.

I saw an anti-choice propaganda vid on Youtube. They went to a pro-choice rally, and the entire video they made was nothing but shocking their anti-choice supporters with the dirty language the grown women at that rally were using. There were no rational arguments to be found in it, and no news being reported.

And what did the comments say? That the women were all whores, all possessed by the devil, etc. No, no misogyny there.

The object is not to get any message across to the other side. Communication broke down long before shock tactics came into it, before even the anti-choicers adopted tactics like gory pictures. As I said, one can't adopt the "rational discussion" tactic unilaterally. It's called losing everything.

A few other notes:

It's not elected officials that have caused this thing to break down. Randall Terry isn't an elected official. An elected official didn't shoot Dr. Tiller. Elected officials are the followers in this debate, not the leaders.

Converting them to your side isn't going to happen. Not by rational argument, not by anything else. The most you can do is unmask them as savages and let the people sitting on the fence, especially the younger generation, see them as what they are.

What this girl Tuesday did was good if only because it makes the anti-choicers to drop their platitudes about having respect for and life fetuses being children. They show the misogyny which is the real basis for their position, and one hopes people sitting on the fence of this will recoil in disgust.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

101. ^^^This^^^

[NM_Birder]

160. I do not disagree with her intent, or passion just her choice of language.

Arguing reality with anyone who lives according to the bible is pointless at best, it doesn't matter how SHOCKING you try to be, you can't yell at a block wall and turn it into a window. She got her message out alright, but the message got lost and all that's being talked about now is her dad defending her right to use offensive language.

My issue is about a 14 year old girl and her choice of language, I think it was inappropriate, and gives her nor her argument any benefit. I don't give respect to the most offensive phrasing possible, I do give respect to most rational message and it's delivery but that's me.

"Keep your cross out my CU*T" that's even MORE shocking, that should do the trick right ? if shocking language isn't enough to get a point across, ..how about violence ? Right wing radicals don't have a problem resorting to violence, does that mean we should too ?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

80. I bet you're a hit at parties!

Sorry, she couldn't live up to your standards.

[NM_Birder]

84. purely argumentative, but not worth an argument.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

100. Just making an opinion.

Same as you.

[niyad]

104. as you can tell by this thread, most of us do not share your opinion. apparently, the only way

to get through to some of these closeminded, woman-hating idiots is to use simple, small words and images that they MIGHT be able to comprehend. Rational thoughts is NOT their strong suit, by quite a bit.

I would say, welcome to DU, but with your elevated sensitivities, you might find the atmosphere here a bit on the overwhelming side.

[NM_Birder]

142. I'm not looking for a cheering section,

isn't that what the "like" button on facebook is all about ?

I think the atmosphere here in the GD, is exactly what I was warned it would be. There are threads of provocative topics, and things people do and do not agree with, and I am free to choose threads and respond with the obviously sought after pat on the back agreement, ....there are PLENTY of threads where agreement is not just sought after, it is DESPERATLEY sought after.. Or... I can choose the threads that offer some conversational value because there is a difference of opinion, if it's all about just agreeing with each other in a uniformed manner what's the point ?

"elevated sensitivities",...nah ....I'm proud of the way I was raised, the values I learned and hold.... they have helped me be successful and I won't compromise them to "fit in"......no matter where I am. And if compromising my own beliefs is a necessary sacrifice to be accepted at Democratic Underground, then I question what the meaning really is.

I get my point / opinion across, and I do it in a respectful, adult manner, same as I do in my real life as an actual person.

[niyad]

148. wow, be careful that you don't break something patting yourself on the back like that,

and thanks for the back-handed insult to everyone here.

[NM_Birder]

151. No back handed insult to everyone intended,

if that's how it was taken I apologize,.... I though you understood what I meant.

Confidence is not patting myself the back, ironically I DO understand what you meant by your comment, no worries I won't beak anything.

better tomorrows.

[greiner3]

111. "At some point in time I hope protesting becomes more about changing minds thru rational thought..."

"14 years old,..... her sign is repulsive to me."

Uhhh, then don't look!

[classykaren]

132. I agree

[Raffi Ella]

167. said classykaren.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Do you also agree with the Xtians calling this 14 year old a whore?

[Mushroom]

140. Stand back, everybody! Give the man some air!

Maybe you should sit this protest out, Birder, and let the sturdier ones handle it.

[NM_Birder]

144. LOL..I'll live....AND I expressed my opinion,....

isn't that what this is all about ?

I'm sure someone will come along shortly and agree with you, ...feel better ?

[Mushroom]

168. I feel fine.

I'm not an angry man competing against a 14 year old girl and losing my shit.

[NM_Birder]

169. lol...still nobody likes your comments ?

You missed the entire point, take care "mushroom".

[Coyotl]

143. The sign is one of the best EVER and deserves a place in the pantheon of awesomeness

I'm guessing you have never held a protest sign once in your life.

[NM_Birder]

146. You missed the entire point of my opinion.

"pantheon of awesomeness"......I'm sure the 14 year old kid agrees.

I'm not 14.

[Coyotl]

147. Only if you say so

[NM_Birder]

152. clever,...glad we agree.

[Coyotl]

153. So it is true then, you have never carried a protest sign

Never too late to start ....

Now this is what we call offensive around here:

[NM_Birder]

155. I disagree with that protest sign for it's content,

Not JUST the content, but the source of it's information, and it's ignorant delivery as well. I don't believe in the bible anymore than I think "Jesus is a dick so keep him out my vagina" is appropriate language for a 14 year old girl.

There are a lot of true things we could talk about, but conversation is not what I think you are going for here.

The way you fumble around at trying to start a pointless argument isn't offensive, but it is uninteresting.

Take care.

[Coyotl]

158. So it is true then, you have never carried a protest sign,

not even once?

[NM_Birder]

163. Are you out of picture examples already ?

I know you are all tensed up waiting to pounce, and prove yourself,......but like I said I'm not 14.

[Just Saying]

154. Which word is so offensive to you?

I think the whole point is the fact that the law is offensive. If for instance this girl were raped (God forbid) and didn't choose to have her rapist's baby, the TX legislature has made it more difficult and expensive for no reason outside of their own religious ideology. Now THAT'S repulsive!

I've had people shocked that I taught my son's to call their penis "penis."

[NM_Birder]

156. "Keep your cross ot my CU*T" do you think...

a 14 year old girl holding that sign would be offensive ?

I draw the line in a different place than you, I find her desire to be in voled inspiring, I find her use of language inappropriate for a 14 year old girl.

[Just Saying]

159. I don't know if you've ever been involved in a protest

And/or made signs for one but provocative and clever is what gets attention and is remembered. And that's the whole point of a protest sign. Her sassy sign is why we know this young lady was protesting in the first place.

I would guess most 14 year olds have used the words "dick" and "vagina." I personally find the word "cu*t" particularly vulgar slang probably because it's more often used as a slur on women than to describe anatomy.

You didn't really answer my question of which word in particular you found offensive. Or is it the "out of my vagina" statement? Are there different words she could have used that you would have found appropriate while still conveying her strong feelings about the law?

[NM_Birder]

161. "Jesus isn't a dick so keep him out my vagina"

We are not going to agree, I find in in appropriate for a 14 year old girl to use that language, you don't. Would you be Ok with a 10 year old ? how about 8 ?

Her father is now the focus of her shocking content, but only to show his approval of his daughters use of vulgar language. Not everybody responds positively to vulgar shocking language, and if you want proof,...use it in everyday life and see how seriously you get taken. Bet you don't do you ? if you don't ask yourself why ?

vulgar signs held by young teenage girls don't inspire a change of thought, or adult debate of fact... isn't THAT what a protest is all about ? If they did, the naked "Femen" group would make more headway than they currently are. Making a spectacle of yourself doesn't inspire people who think differently to believe in your message. It clouds the focus of your message, brings out the like minded people who already agree sure, but isn't the point to change minds ?

[Just Saying]

162. I think the point is to get attention for the cause.

And she did.

I don't think it's necessarily appropriate for small children to protest issues they can't understand but I don't think 14 is too young. There's a big difference in maturity between children and teens. She seems to be smart and knowledgable about this issue as well as motivated to make her voice heard. No, I'm not offended by a teenager using the words "dick" or "vagina."

No, we are not going to agree as I don't take offense to the words she used or the sentiment she expressed.

[NM_Birder]

164. appreciate the conversation,....

We don't necessarily agree, but also don't have to call each other names or bully push. I appreciate it, take care.

[Just Saying]

165. Enjoy the rest of your day

Nice talking with you.

[dionysus]

175. bless your little heart.

[PDJane]

29. Good for you. She still has more sense than most.

And profanity doesn't bother me nearly as much as the stupidity she's protesting against.

Profanity doesn't bother me as much as being told that an ice-less north pole is a hoax. It doesn't bother me as much as trying to get every bit of fossil fuel out of the ground before we become extinct. It doesn't bother me nearly as much as a man who says that late-term abortion is a 'convenience.'

There are lots more things than common, if rude, language.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

34. This saying comes to mind: And a (little) child shall lead them.

Good for her!

She has a very clear vision, and is not afraid to express it. Brava!

[Duval]

48. Great post, CaliforniaPeggy!! n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

49. Thanks! I did wonder if anyone would notice in a thread this big!

[Metro135]

37. When the time comes

Tuesday Cain for president

[blackspade]

39. I can only hope that my daughter is this smart and brave.

[DinahMoeHum]

42. Great ending in the piece.

". . .adults are not acting like adults. . ." indeed!

[Duval]

47. Hooray for you, Bennyboy!! n/t

[sheshe2]

54. Tuesday Cain, brava!

Normally, I prefer to look up to adults as role models. But what is happening in Texas right now it's hard to find adults who I want to look up to.

I don't look up to an adult who is taking away a woman's right to choose.

I don't look up to an adult who is calling a 14-year-old girl a whore.

I don't look up to an adult who is screaming in my face and saying I am ugly.

http://www.xojane.com/issues/billy-cain-tuesday-cain-jesus-isnt-a-dick-so-keep-him-out-of-my-vagina

Thanks Bennyboy

[UTUSN]

59. R#94 & K for, best slogan ever!1 n/t

[Mr.Bill]

63. If she wants to be a science teacher

she needs to leave Texas.

[caseymoz]

67. Plenty of females need to leave Texas.

It's a state that hates them.

I get the idea that's the only thing that will get through to those haters.

[Bennyboy]

78. I have a lot of women musician friends in Texas and they ask

if they can move here (Northern CA).. sadly I tell them no, Austin is cool and there is live music everywhere. Out here live music is frowned upon. Playing every night of the week at a club in your hometown when not on tour would not happen, it would be more touring rather than hometown gigs.

And let me tell ya, they are pissed off and right there at the Capitol. Carolyn Wonderland is leading the deal....

[surrealAmerican]

94. If all the brave, smart girls leave ...

... it will only make matters worse for the more timid and the less intelligent. They don't deserve to be abandoned just for needing help.

[caseymoz]

107. They're not expatriating.

People move to other states all the time.

If you think that will be a problem, organize something similar to the Underground Railroad to get them out.

I tend to think, though, that Texas will become rather dull, and the men there will become more reasonable before anything like that is necessary.

I mean, for comparison, Wyoming was the first state to have women voters, and for no other reason but the territory had a significant shortage of women, and needed badly to attract them.

[caseymoz]

66. A brave girl, but . . .

. . . I'm not sure she knows what kind shit storm she's bringing on herself and her family.

No, I don't think it's blasphemous. It calls out antichoicers on their invocation of their savior into this argument. If anything, this brave girl will bring out the rottenest misogyny. It will show the nation how little the War on Women has anything to do with respect for life.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

68. Funny how many dicks this aroused.

[AmyStrange]

71. I can understand the need to tie clinics in with hospitals...

-

it makes sense, to try and make it safer for the mother, but the way they are doing it in Texas is wrong. It makes it less safe. More probable a young mother will go alternate routes. If they really were doing this with the health of the mother in mind, they would force (by law) all hospitals to have clinics, on site.

Personally, I am against abortion, BUT I am also against making laws that force my belief on others.

No matter what religious people say, it is NOT about the children, or the POTENTIAL children, because no matter how hard you argue against it, a fetus is ONLY a POTENTIAL CHILD and not an ACTUAL child.

The reason it isn't about the child is because, if you take the "potential" child theory to it's logical conclusion, even not having sex is killing a "potential" child. Doesn't the bible say, "be fruitful and multiply"? Why aren't they also out there encouraging people to have sex and having kids? It's because the religion has nothing to do with what they believe. It's only use is as an excuse to do what they want. It enables them to be mean, IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!

I also believe that rather than trying to "virtually" ban something, they should be making sure children (remember, it's suppose to be about the children) are taken cared of after they are born, proper daytime care (if the mother has to finish school or work) and a good education, including College.

And also, someone should be figuring out a way to take the fetus ("potential" child) from one mother and giving it to another mother to take care of it until the child is born and after.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, but thank you for letting me vent.

So Bennyboy, you're not this Tuesday Cain, right? Either way, doesn't matter, that article was very well written and smart.

Thank you,

d

-
ETC: "it'" to "it's"

[RVN VET]

73. Austin just freaking rocks!

It's been said that if a Conservative tries to enter the city limits of Austin, he hits an invisible wall of decency and reason, splits his near empty skull and just can't go any further.

(Actually, Hal Sparks described that on the Stephanie Miller show)

[RVN VET]

74. Oh, and Tuesday is now officially my favorite days of the week!

[roamer65]

86. I have to visit Austin in the near future.

It amazes me just how much of a progressive island it is in a sea of right wing swill. Must be a cool town.

[Coyotl]

145. Texas cities are Blue zones in a vast red sea of rural voters.

[hughee99]

88. Jesus may not be a dick, but a lot of people who do things in his name are dicks. n/t

[Bill USA]

89. conservatives are very happy to wield Government power in people's personal affairs if they can use

it to enforce their idea of 'morality' on those who don't agree with them.

great post. recommended!

[maddiemom]

90. I'm sure Tuesday has the brains to go into science, but I hope she goes into

an area that involves dealing with education and the public, as she'd be wasted in a strictly laboratory or research job. Science is going to need much help in the future to counteract the fact that so many today are reactionary and ignorant about scientific advancement. We need to go back to the attitude that we had in the decades following WWII, when "rocket scientist" was high praise and we welcomed the advances that beat polio and put a man on the moon, for just two examples. We've gone back to paying too much heed to the superstitious religious nuts. If there is a God, science would definitely be one of the mysterious ways in which He works.

[niyad]

106. good for you, tuesday. keep telling it like it is.

[xfundy]

109. But, according to his loudest PR teams -

- He really is a dick. A very hateful one, demanding worship upon fear of eternal torture.

He loves us unconditionally, as long as we do EXACTLY what he says.

No, thanks.

[GETPLANING]

122. Never underestimate young people.

They are far, far more intelligent than most people give them credit for.

[Fawke Em]

124. My son is 14.

He's cute!

I'd love to have him date someone like you.

Seriously, you're a doll. I'm not into matchmaking (but my son is dark curly-haired, tall cute!).

You are a doll because you rock and as a pro-choice woman, I thank you for continuing the fight. I have your back.

[hifiguy]

127. That is one inspirational and courageous young woman!

I happily doff my hat to you Ms. Cain, and never back down!!!

[mettamega]

129. thank you for your courage - I appreciate your creative intuition -

I am so happy you feel moved to stand up for American Women - we are lucky to have you -

[livingwagenow]

131. Recced. nt

[niyad]

157. . . .