Is it just me?

[MannyGoldstein]

Or does our country's situation just get more appalling each day?

We're being held hostage by crazy people, and the negotiators are only negotiating for a share of the ransom, not for us hostages.

I can't see how this ends nicely.

[brooklynite]

1. Yes, it's you...

Personally, I think we can always work through our problems.

[sabrina 1]

51. No, it's not just him, there are at least two of us. However I agree we can work through our

problems but not by remaining complacent, which it appears a few people think Liberals should do.

[Enthusiast]

198. John Lennon thought "they" were insane.

[kardonb]

102. you

please , please , please , don't join the negativistic " sky is falling " crowd . We , as a nation , have overcome many bad times , we will overcome this one , also . But it takes confidence in our strengths , looking confidently into the future , hard work , and PULLING TOGETHER , not whining and giving up on our great nation .

[TBF]

123. Of course you do - you can afford to have that perspective.

Most of the rest of the country is not in your position.

[brooklynite]

128. My income doesn't protect me from crackpot Tea Party policies...

...I just don't let it get me down. There's always the ability to change things, given enough effort.

[TBF]

133. The civil rights issues can be changed

by voting out the nut jobs (particularly here in TX) - I do agree with that.

In terms of economics it is much more complicated.

[Bluenorthwest]

180. It clearly provides you with needed status feelings, you are one of just a few DUers

who make sure others know their income, the rest of them are broke. The ONLY reason anyone thinks you are the 1% is because you tell everyone, and go on about doormen and the Four Seasons being attacked by OWS and such.
Why announce that which most keep private if you don't draw from that announcement some sort of benefit?
It's great to have money, it sucks to pretend it does not matter. 'I'm just positive' says the guy who buys his way out of the problems most fight hard to get through.
Own what you have. Or it owns you.

[brooklynite]

200. The ONLY time I mention my income...

...is when someone posts a comment that high income people are all conservative and anti-Democratic. I've given support to Warren, Grayson and every other significant Liberal candidate, and there are plenty of upper-income Democrats I know that do the same.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

175. How are you going to work through a problem with your head in the sand?

[PDJane]

2. No, it's not just you.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Where are we going?

And what are we doing in this handbasket?

[MannyGoldstein]

8. For some reason, reminds me of...

[ZombieHorde]

29. I love that song. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Isn't early Pink Floyd great?

Under-appreciated, I think.

[Dragonfli]

37. That goes all the way back to Syd

Pipers was also the first album I ever heard stoned, er not that I would ever do such a thing now.

Still one of my favorite Albums of all time, to think I once owned the original vinyl, I wish I still had it.

[MannyGoldstein]

42. Amazing album

Almost every piece on it was outstanding.

[Dragonfli]

55. Agreed, one more for those that may not be familiar with it...

I think there is even a modern cover of this one by someone, this album changed everything IMO.

[MannyGoldstein]

62. That might be my favorite from the album

Such nice memories of listening in the basement in high school, nowhere to go, just using great music to explore the universe.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

199. The modern cover is by Voivod.

Actually quite good.

Edit to add video:

[arely staircase]

46. there is something we actually agree on

love the syd stuff.

[MannyGoldstein]

57. Corporal Clegg

[arely staircase]

59. he won it in the war

1944

[Fantastic Anarchist]

178. Syd Barrett days were pretty cool.

I was born too late, so I only got to experience them after the fact.

Nick Mason is murdering the drums.

&list=FLtQBGbTUO310qGNeaoIW4KQ&index=30

[Enthusiast]

114. Holy crap!

I like all the Pink Floyd. From beginning to end.

[Moostache]

171. I don't dislike it...just sounds HEAVILY influenced by Sgt. Pepper's to me...

Pink Floyd had one hell of a ride as a band and quite a few different twists and turns.

[Enthusiast]

173. A whole lot of music from that period was influenced by Sgt. Pepper's.

And rightly so.

Personally I am crazy about the modern day incarnation of Pink Floyd with the soaring Gilmour guitar and stuff. And I like his solo stuff too, like this one.

[leftstreet]

4. Where is the hostage negotiation team?

[Skittles]

5. no it's not just you, Manny

it is perfectly clear

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Jeez, Manny--

Go watch American Idle or something. There is nothing wrong. Everything is as it should be. This is the best of all possible worlds.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. I love Candide

Jeez, Lenny Bernstein was brilliant.

[markpkessinger]

76. "Amo, Amas, Amat, Amamus!"

Yes, Lenny was brilliant (as was Voltaire)!

One of the most memorable experiences of my life was a three-hour rehearsal I had the privilege of observing at Tanglewood, with Bernstein conducting, just a few months before he died. He was very, very ill at the time. During the rehearsal, they kept an oxygen tank/mask next to the podium. Somehow, when Bernstein was conducting, he manifested the kind of physical energy he was so famous for bringing to his conducting. But when he would stop to give the orchestra instructions, he would first have to take a couple of minutes to catch his breath by huffing on the oxygen mask. It was sad, to be sure, but it was such an inspiration at the same time.

[Oilwellian]

64. American Idle

Did you purposely spell it that way or is it the most appropriate misspelling I've ever seen? LOL

[Jackpine Radical]

125. It was intentional.

Bread & circuses.

Actually, I've never seen the show, nor much of anything else that's been on TV in the past 3 or 4 decades.

[lob1]

7. Hey Manny, it seems to me we're on our own,

and we have been for some time. It'll end nicely for some, but not us.

[Cleita]

9. If you think they are crazy you are only half right.

The crazy people are fronting for the people who really are holding us hostage. Someone suggested that we are heading for another civil war. This time it won't be geographical, but haves against have nots.

[arely staircase]

15. yeah that is totally about to happen

another civil war

[Cleita]

23. Let's hope not, but it's something being discussed by some pundits.

I report. You decide.

[arely staircase]

30. I have decided it isn't

do realize the level of trouble it takes to get to that? last time here it required a decades old fight over the expansion of slavery, succession of several states and an attack by those states on federal troops within their boundaries. In more recent times in other countries it has begun with protests after decades of totalitarian (usually ethnic minority) governments that were bloodily repressed with the slaughter of lots of civilians in the streets.

the US doesn't even have a major issue dividing it seriously right now. its standard of living is relatively high by global and historical standards. there just aren't any of the ingredients needed for a civil war.

[SwampG8r]

80. for some reason

my whole life when I have heard this "second civil war" spoken of
and I am an old southern dude so its been a whole lot so far
whoever is doing the talking forgets a little thing called the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx state name) national guard who will be the first line of defense in each state against any such rebellions
now I don't know where you live but I live in florida
one of Americas most (if not best) armed populations
and the florida national guard has us outgunned
I mean sheesh they gots tanks and planes and bazookas and all kinds of killy stuff
not likely to work out well for anyone but the florida national guard

[arely staircase]

86. and is there really any issue that a sizable number of Americans are willing to kill other Americans

and be killed by other Americans over? Shit no. And I live in East Texas, also very armed and RW and hates the government/Obama but I bet there aren't five people in this county who would literally try to start a civil war and they are in the Aryan Brotherhood and the County jail. So they aren't doing shit except waiting to get transferred to the state prison to serve their sentences for manufacturing methamphetamine. and there are plenty of racist dickheads around here but as long as the Chicken Express is open and their cable TV works, they aren't starting a civil war.

[mountain grammy]

190. love it.. funny, sad and true.

[Jackpine Radical]

142. Well, old white male lunatics

now constitute a minority population.

There has been a decades-long fight for civil rights.

We are just discovering the iron fist hidden in the velvet glove of our so-called "democracy."

And everything moves faster now than in the 19th Century.

[arely staircase]

144. so over what issue do you think a substantial number of Americans will be willing to

kill other Americans as well as risk being killed by other Americans? Enough to make a civil war? Not just a handful of militia loony toons who are easily rounded up by the FBI or local cops.

[Jackpine Radical]

145. You're assuming a bloody revolution.

That may be entirely the wrong model.

Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict (Columbia Studies in Terrorism and Irregular Warfare)

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Civil-Resistance-Works-Nonviolent/dp/0231156839/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374855104&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=chenoweth+sargent

For more than a century, from 1900 to 2006, campaigns of nonviolent resistance were more than twice as effective as their violent counterparts in achieving their stated goals. By attracting impressive support from citizens, whose activism takes the form of protests, boycotts, civil disobedience, and other forms of nonviolent noncooperation, these efforts help separate regimes from their main sources of power and produce remarkable results, even in Iran, Burma, the Philippines, and the Palestinian Territories.

Combining statistical analysis with case studies of specific countries and territories, Erica Chenoweth and Maria J. Stephan detail the factors enabling such campaigns to succeed and, sometimes, causing them to fail. They find that nonviolent resistance presents fewer obstacles to moral and physical involvement and commitment, and that higher levels of participation contribute to enhanced resilience, greater opportunities for tactical innovation and civic disruption (and therefore less incentive for a regime to maintain its status quo), and shifts in loyalty among opponents' erstwhile supporters, including members of the military establishment.

Chenoweth and Stephan conclude that successful nonviolent resistance ushers in more durable and internally peaceful democracies, which are less likely to regress into civil war. Presenting a rich, evidentiary argument, they originally and systematically compare violent and nonviolent outcomes in different historical periods and geographical contexts, debunking the myth that violence occurs because of structural and environmental factors and that it is necessary to achieve certain political goals. Instead, the authors discover, violent insurgency is rarely justifiable on strategic grounds.

[arely staircase]

146. no, I'm assuming a "civil war"

the topic of this subthread. and actually I am assuming NOT a civil war. but the topic here isn't protest or non-violent resistance to something it is civil war.

[Jackpine Radical]

151. Warfare can take many forms.

[arely staircase]

152. and the one being discussed is

"a violent conflict within a country fought by organized groups that aim to take power at the center or in a region, or to change government policies".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war#Formal_classification

[tblue]

61. Because there aren't enough of us

willing to fight and/or die to save this thing. We just don't want to be that inconvenienced. We are not as brave as Americans were back then, or as people in other countries today. We still believe in a peaceful change of power. We still believe we get to vote and that how we vote really matters.

[arely staircase]

66. there is no issue on the table in America currently

that I am willing to kill fellow Americans over. And I doubt there are many who are. Hopefully the ones who are - militia members, skinheads, etc. are under FBI surveillance and about to be arrested.

[awoke_in_2003]

19. I think that is the only remedy...

without real campaign reform all we can do is vote for asshole A or Asshole B, and both are chosen for us ahead of time. They buy politicians on both sides.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. But the crazies can break free from their puppetmasters

and then there's a big problem.

That's how Herr Hitler ended up causing such a ruckus.

[Cleita]

27. I did want to expand on this myself but Godwin keeps getting in the way.

[MannyGoldstein]

33. #%^* Godwin

Never Forget means never forget.

[markpkessinger]

45. Thank you for saying that, Manny!

Here's a problem I have with "Godwin's Law." It seems to rest on the assumption that nothing remotely comparable to Hitler and Nazi Germany could ever possibly happen again (or at least not here). That is a very naive and dangerous assumption. I mean, it isn't as if Nazi Germany just arrived on the scene fully formed in all its horror one day. It occurred over time, and incrementally; and there were conditions that enabled and/or fueled its rise. And when we see conditions in our own time that seem to parallel some of those conditions that fueled the rise of Nazism, we're a bunch of fucking idiots if we deny ourselves the ability to discuss those parallels openly, merely because "Hitler" is too often and too carelessly invoked.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

48. incrementally as in 6 years. from 1933 to 1938 when Hitler went from pogroms to invasions

of Austria and Sudetenland.

Godwin is mostly referring to non geopolitical topics where Hitler is invoked.

[markpkessinger]

69. Nazism, as a political movement, arose over time from WWI . . .

. . . it did not just arrive on the scene in 1933. What's more, the philosophical roots of German nationalism extend back well over a century before that. You should read more history.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

71. I have. I'm speaking of actual rise to power when people supported Hitler to 1938 when the world saw

this guy is a mad man playing for keeps.

There are tons of ideologies out there percolating, but most have little influence until they are given any sort of legislative power or government representation.

[Cleita]

73. You know nothing, Jon Snow, er Pretzel_Warrior. n/t

[Pretzel_Warrior]

75. my brother and I spent years studying WW1...the "cease fire", Spanish Civil War and WW2

So why are you insinuating I know nothing of the rise of fascism in Germany?

[Cleita]

78. Because your words seem to show it.

I was taught WWI by a four star general, who had fought in WWII as a young officer, and whom my history teacher invited to teach us.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

84. that's great. I am sure you learned a lot you couldn't merely from a textbook

but in the fog of war, I am sure there is much even that general couldn't know about the vast expanse of 2 world wars.

The scariest scenario doesn't have as much to do with a particular ideology as it does to total and complete financial meltdown lasting for years. What happened in 2008/2009 was bad, but if the dominos had kept falling, it would have sunk us into a worldwide depression, and in that environment people are looking for answers and will often cling to the loudest and most radical of theories and ideas.

It was that environment in the 1920's that gave rise to people like Hitler and Mussolini who were then able to scapegoat entire swaths of people in their countries and wrest control from all of the normal institutions of power.

Based on that, it wouldn't be the current framework of government I would be worried about as much as a financial collapse causing a general strike and unstable society. From that would spring up new "leaders" and cults of personality that people would follow to their destruction.

[Cleita]

92. My father was a doughboy in WWI. He even marched to Paris and lived.

I know a lot more than textbooks.

[lunasun]

138. You could be right especialy if in the next dexade or so Caucasians continue towards moinority in US

there remains a unstable economy,and our MIC support.

[MannyGoldstein]

52. We should all study the rise of the Third Reich

When I was growing up in the 1960s and 1970s, we discussed the Holocaust quite often in Hebrew School. So many films of the dead stacked like cordwood.

When I first visited Germany, I expected a monstrous people - or at least a cold, unfriendly people. They turned out to be among the nicest people I ever met.

This made no sense: how could people do the stuff the Third Reich did without being genetically-predispositioned sociopaths?

So I made a study of the 1920s-1940s in Germany and the US to see what happened. My conclusion is that what happened in Germany could happen anywhere. It might have happened in the US in the 1930s, but I firmly believe that FDR prevented it.

[Cleita]

65. "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Shirer should be required

reading in all history classes when studying the WWI through WWII era. I'm not Jewish and I was raised in Chile, by an American father who worked for an American company. I was alive during WWII, a toddler, but I remember much of what was going on around me because my Chilean mother and I got stranded in the US with my grandmother during the war. We rejoined my dad in Chile after the war. In Chile, I met ex-Nazis, and actually they seemed like honest Germans who had been caught up in an event of history. I also met many displaced people from Europe, whose lives had been destroyed at that time by Nazis, who hated them. I also met other weird characters of those time known as soldiers of fortune. They were various European, American, British, Aussie types who had forgotten to put down their guns. Actually, interesting people, but I never understood what was going on with them (I was a teenager) until I read that book.

[Enthusiast]

117. I agree, Manny.

Great post.

[Jakes Progress]

136. You begin a visit to the Holocaust museum on the top floor.

Then you move down the floors, each one chronologically advancing.

I was worried about my reaction to what would be on the lower floors - the horror and shame. So I spent a lot of time on the top floor. It covers Germany at the beginning of the third reich. I looked at everything, then descended the floors fairly quickly, unable to force myself to study the horror as much as I did the history.

The result has been that the top floors haunt me still. Those photographs of crowds, those newpapers propagating hatred, the hardening of a people to the pain of others. The haunting part is that people are so easily guided to their worst selves.

I see the parallels in talk radio, fox, the tea-party, and the capitulation of good people trying to make nice with things that are not nice at all. Evil is evil.

There are a lot of song references upthread. Let's see if anyone knows where "Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only joking" comes from. See if anyone knows without google.

(Here's another line from the same song: "My head can't tolerate this bobbing and pretending
Listen to some bullet-head and the madness that he's saying&quot

[MannyGoldstein]

149. And that's the thing - I've studied that period myself

and also see the parallels. And they grow closer by the day.

I was at a family reunion a few years ago, family came from all over the world to meet in New York City. A big family tree was posted. branches of the tree stopped dead in the 1930s and 1940s.

As I watched the many people, old and young, enjoying the event I also saw the ghosts of those branches that had perished. So many snuffed out, so many more not allowed to even start.

This stuff is real.

[chervilant]

193. So profound.

The result has been that the top floors haunt me still. Those photographs of crowds, those newpapers propagating hatred, the hardening of a people to the pain of others. The haunting part is that people are so easily guided to their worst selves.

When I observe -- to those I trust -- that I cannot wrap my brain around the increasingly ubiquitous derision, fear-mongering, and hate-mongering permeating our entire citizenry!

Manny gets a plate full of it with nearly every post.

I keep getting back to Calhoun's works on overpopulation. Virtually everything he observed is made manifest in our species these days. I still cannot wrap my brain around it...

[Cleita]

56. And this is where you get answers like #48, without any thought to the fact that

this was being built up to from WWI until 1933 was reached, or the day Bush, er Hitler became chancellor. Yep, nothing to see here. Let's move along.

[markpkessinger]

70. Exactly! n/t

[Pretzel_Warrior]

74. so what ideology resembling Nazism is taking hold in the US

that you feel is looming danger which could subjugate large swaths of Americans in concentration camps?

[Cleita]

77. We already have concentration camps if you haven't noticed.

We call them prisons and detention facilities for illegal immigrants. Also, there is that place in Cuba where prisoners are kept who aren't charged with crimes, not given any court dates, and are force fed because they won't eat. It seems their crime mostly is being Muslim, sort of like being Jewish was a good entrance into a so-called labor camps in eastern Europe back then.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

82. are you for real? I want Guantanamo closed as much as the next person and some kind of due process

given to those prisoners. But come on. The VAST majority of them are mid to high level al queda who were caught on the battlefield or were apprehended after it was found they were involved in terror plots or carried out terror plots.

I am against private prisons. However, are any of them filled with people who did not receive due process being charged with a crime, etc? Are any of these prisons filled with people who were rounded up simply because of their religion or ethnicity or sexual orientation?

That is really a bad example.

[Cleita]

85. You want it closed? It should never have been opened. The abuses that

went on there should never have happened. We are America! Al Queda should have been flushed out like the Brits flush out the IRA, a police action, not a police state action, and we have become a police state. Never forget it. Abu Ghraib, Gitmo and our black sites in other countries for our CIA to keep and torture prisoners, Muslim ones, of course proves we are not clean in this.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

87. Well they didn't check with me before they opened it

So I don't know what that comment is supposed to mean. Of course it shouldn't have been opened. Are you pretending we're not on the same side here?

[Cleita]

90. We don't seem to be. You don't find this the same abomination

I do and object to the fact that I compare it to other similar historical incidences.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

93. ever heard of false equivalence? it is an insult to the millions of Jews, homosexuals, conscientious

objectors and others who suffered at the hands of Hitler's regime when you compare the indefinite detainment of people who were often IN THE ACT of fighting against U.S. forces in Afghanistan after 9/11. Most of the ones who had been rounded up and found to have no real connection to al queda were released. Some, when they were released joined terror organizations. Most did not.

The ones left are the most problematic of the 9/11 planners and other key al queda figures. I can declare our way of handling them to be absolutely an abomination and having nothing to do with what Americans have stood for in the past and also say it in no way compares to the rounding up of millions of innocents to die in labor camps through disease, exaustion, starvation, and gas chambers.

[Cleita]

97. Yes, that's the excuse. We don't exterminate Jews. I can't think of any Jewish person who would

want another person to suffer and be exterminated like they were. Do you? Yet we seem to be doing it because our victims aren't Jewish, or conscientious objectors yet. I eliminated homosexuals because they have been mistreated by us legally. Also, you forgot gypsies in your little rant too.

[great white snark]

112. People are called delusional when they say there have been Nazi comparisons.

Much respect for your perspective Pretzel_Warrior. History and I thank you.

[woo me with science]

81. An entire industry of private prisons is being developed in this country,

aggressively facilitated by this Democratic administration.

There is now a profit motive on imprisoning human beings.

Money is a powerful corrupting force.

[Warren Stupidity]

120. wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.

Authoritarianism - check.
Militarism - check.
Nationalism - check.
Contempt of democratic processes - check.
Disdain for human rights - check.
Religion and government intertwined - check.
Disdain for intellectuals, science and the arts - check.
Identification of scapegoat enemies - the "other" - check.

Anyone who doesn't see what is happening with the republican party, with complicity from the right wing of the democratic party, and what has happened to this country since 2001 is blind.

[woo me with science]

166. +1

[Enthusiast]

116. Good take. nt

[woo me with science]

88. Agree wholeheartedly, and thank you for saying it.

The comparisons are coming fast now, even from Germans who lived under the Stasi. Godwin's law is only being used to try to silence discussions we desperately need to be having.

This country is brewing something very disturbing.

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/C5faEJPnrDOsTZdnPy2SNw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTIwMDtxPTg1O3c9MzAw/

[TorchTheWitch]

28. not a civil war a revolution n/t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

49. There was a revolution. The super-rich won while the MSM diverted our attention. We lost.

[TorchTheWitch]

111. that was a coup

And the super-rich won because both parties work for them. My attention was never diverted since I don't give a rat's ass what letter someone wears on their sweater nor what pretty speeches they make, I care about what they DO. And after Reagan killed the unions the Dem party had no where else to go for their funding other than the super-rich which is why my entire voting life I've never been able to vote for someone that was NOT working for the super-rich that bought them their seat since without that old big union money the Dems stopped giving a shit about working people. Until the private money gets out of our politics there will NEVER be a party that gives a shit about working people. I can't even get out of this piece of shit country since without a ton of money no other decent country will have me.

[jtuck004]

38. Have nots against the haves, and the people they buy...else it would be awfully one-sided. n/t

[forestpath]

10. I feel the same way.

[msongs]

11. the real republicans and the republican lites are duking it out lol nt

[Hydra]

18. The predators fighting over who's getting lamb for dinner.

[awoke_in_2003]

24. The are both getting lamb...

they are fighting over the choice cuts.

[arely staircase]

13. It's you nt

[Hydra]

14. It's not just you

And we have an even bigger problem- Climate change is going into overdrive. This is the worst time for us to be split as a species...but I don't think it can happen any other way.

If there's a solution, it's going to have to come from us.

[Mojorabbit]

54. I read a DOD report a long time ago predicting mass migration of people

civil unrest, and food and water shortages from climate change expected. I think the ptb are getting their ducks in a row to handle and unruly population.

[Hydra]

72. I'm sure they are

And I'm sure they're expecting most of us to accept our fates while they go into their underground cities.

It's quite the roll of the dice they've made. All or nothing.

[lunasun]

139. Yea there may be no time for issues that divide and the whole danm group needs a time out

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. Not just you. My wife and I, and our daughters, speak of this often.

One daughter escaped NC for Seattle....the other is stuck here. It's bad. It will end bad for everyone eventually (as the earth decides to finally spew us all off and get itself back in balance); perhaps nicely for the fortunate few in the near term, but it will even get them in the end.

But for most, it is pretty awful. And the pathetic part is that it doesn't need to be.....so your hostage description is spot on.

[MuseRider]

17. Nope, not just you.

It used to make my head spin. Now I am used to it. Don't like it but I expect it.

I don't think they are crazy, I think they are greedy and they got themselves elected by lying to us. We bought it hook, line and sinker and we will continue to. We are setting up elections like an American Idol voting.

[limpyhobbler]

20. Life goes on.

We may not have a functioning democracy, but we still have Netflix.

[TDale313]

21. Nope, not just you.

[TransitJohn]

22. Throwing Stones

[zeemike]

39. But that was when the kids did dance and shake their bones.

Now there is no dancing when they get home...

Thanks for that appropriate song.

[woo me with science]

25. No, it's definitely not just you. nt

[robinlynne]

31. I keep seeing a new kind of homeless people on the streets. people who have not

had a bath or change of clothes, or much else human for a long long long time. People literally wearing rags, their skin and rags equally black with dirt. This is something different. This is a kind of poverty I have not seen before anywhere.

[MannyGoldstein]

34. Me too.

It's evil, awful, and seemingly inexorable.

Bad.

[Cleita]

98. I have. In South America, in the 1940s when all the tinpot dictators ruled everything.

A few people were very rich and everyone else on the brink of starvation.

[ornotna]

35. You're not alone

It's not looking very good for us working class folks.

[840high]

47. No it's not. I don't

see much hope for us.

[CK_John]

36. Our biggest problem is only 20yr oil supply and 20 yr supply of potable water

in the southeast US.

Image all of Texas headed for Neb. and everybody else headed for the new bread basket, Canada. Poor Canada.

[Lonr]

40. You are not alone.

I fear the situation in our country is going to get real ugly ( even worse that it already is ), and fairly soon.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

41. on some fronts it is getting better each day

but I agree there is still much work to do as we try to form a more perfect union

[jtuck004]

44. But in the back it really, really sucks for tens of millions of people. And has for some time. n/t

[zeemike]

43. Nope not just you.

I think it is something in the water...you know like Rome and it's heavy metal problem.

[liberal_at_heart]

50. It is not just you.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

53. Not just you.

[bigwillq]

58. It won't end nicely.

The country is in rough shape. I don't really see how it gets better.

[MotherPetrie]

60. No. Not when we have a president who promised to look forward and keeps dragging us back.

[alittlelark]

63. It will not end nicely.

6 years ago I purchased a piece of property between the Jemez Indian Pueblo and Los Alamos. ONE road runs through it. Both sides are substantial, and it is a heavily surveilled road. Saw this coming in 2005. Greenhouse, Fruit trees... beautiful property.......

[jtuck004]

67. "being held hostage by crazy people". If we would quit volunteering to write the damn ransom notes

it would stop.

But too many like the food, and the shackles aren't too bad, and the security is great, what with being locked behind the closet door and all.

[DevonRex]

68. Maybe ya'll should get a compound or something.

We'll keep fighting the Republicans out here. You can join up with Greenwald maybe on the internet. I hear he has super duper encryption instructions. You could make your plans in secret about how to end this "hostage crisis."

Or, hey, maybe your compound could be in Brazil! You could get advice from the man himself, in person, on how to get rid of both parties and run the country yourselves. The not-so-great Libertarian Revolution.

[Dragonfli]

100. I apologize for saying so, but your perspective appears to be incredibly myopic

Sarcasm tag or not.

You see Republicans as the only enemy and fail to see beyond that distraction to what they really are, like Saddam's Republican guard, they are simply the favorite thugs working for a larger enemy that is global and systemic in nature.

Yes, we should fight the guard, they are the most potent of the foot soldiers in this country's battle, but they are not alone among the useful political tools helping to syphon the resources, prosperity, freedoms and very life from this planet and 99.9% of it's denizens.

I should not have to point out another distressing fact. In the fight against these Republicans one does not beat them by joining them in their endeavors and helping them achieve 90% of their agenda as is the way of Centrists and appeasers.

Austerity, the destruction of the liberty required by the populace to effect change and the extraction of common resources needed to pursue a saner path is called "bipartisan" and reveals a collaboration that crosses party and even national lines.

Neofeudalism, shortsighted greed that would place all wealth in the hands of the few and multinational corporatism run by a psychopathic ethic of profit above all else (literally) is the real enemy. This enemy is made of several sociopathic individuals that run or work for (often as purchased politicians) these corporations and would gladly devour each other as well as the rest of us for short term gain.

It is an insane enemy that will kill itself along with the host in the end if not stopped; Manny is correct, they are winning and gaining more ground each day.

They will be the death of us and all you appear to see are the not so bright Republican foot soldiers directly in front of you.

Correct your vision and see the larger dangers that WILL kill us all if we ALL don't wake the fuck up.

[DevonRex]

161. What a

nice reply. Thank you.

[Dragonfli]

162. You're welcome, I have been working on my manners and I am pleased it is being noticed.

[DevonRex]

163. I would have

noticed how nice it was even without the first few words. It discusses issues. That's so rare. I appreciated it.

[grahamhgreen]

165. F*cking brilliant! Couldn't agree more, thanks.

[woo me with science]

189. This is a superb post.

Thank you.

[Apophis]

194. Except, you know, it's not only the republicans screwing over the people.

3rd way, corporate Democrats are fucking us over as well.

[DevonRex]

196. I'm sure

Greenwald has some ideas about how to oust Democrats. You'll have to get your tips from him. Or some other Libertarian or Green. Because I am a Democrat.

Like I said, I'll be fighting Republicans. I've been working my ass off trying to get rid of my Republican congressman for years and replacing him with a Democrat. We almost did it last time. We will do it this time. I don't have time to play games about who is and who isn't "3rd way" or "corporate" according to a few strangers on the internet. Not when he's barely better than Michele Bachman.

[Apophis]

197. I don't look up to Greenwald.

Sorry to burst your bubble there, sport.

Keep voting for the problem Democrats, then. Go out and vote for the Cory Bookers and the Hillary Clintons out there. When the country comes crashing down, don't come whining to me.

[Rex]

79. No, this is what it is like living in a plutocracy.

There was no craziness involved, just decades of careful planning. It is appalling that Reagan and Poppy got away with Iran Contra. It is appalling that Bush Jr. and Cheney got away with Iraq. Some things never change. When they do it is probably a PNAC revival or the Koch rockets of the world trying to decide if they need more police protection.

Then there are kings with their very own army.

[delrem]

83. This has been going on from at least the Reagan wars.

The same kind of dichotomy has been going on, Reagan, with Trigger and a jar of jellybeans, covering for what was done in his name, esp. his Latin American and South American adventures.

This is a very bad situation, there appear to be *no* US leaders with an alternate plan to the neocons.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. nope, it is not just you

[jazzimov]

91. " Is it just me?"

Pretty much, yeah.

I love waking up and Obama is our President.

[HiPointDem]

95. the post isn't about obama. talk about obsession.

[Maedhros]

156. The crisis will not be averted by a cult of personality.

I'd rather wake up and have a functioning democracy.

[blackspade]

94. agreed.

[Scurrilous]

96. I'm walking on sunshine!!

[Kablooie]

99. The internet has enabled the lunatic zealots to organize. The problem is ...

that they don't play by the same rules as everyone else.

They aren't restricted by logic and reason the way everyone else is and this gives them an unfair advantage.

They are the suicide bombers of America and are willing to risk destroying themselves and everyone else in order to achieve their unreasonable, extremist goals and as long as they are allowed to flourish, their Sword of Damocles will continue to hang above our heads.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

101. Manny, you should be at the beach with the rest of us!

Don't let them get to you, yo

[Safetykitten]

103. No, it is not just you.

[spanone]

104. i'm over 60. it's been appalling since & before i was born.

[MrModerate]

105. I'm living in Australia now — temporarily, I thought . . .

But now I never want to come back.

I think I'll go for permanent residency here. Australia's far from perfect, but their crazies-per-thousand rate is about a hundredth of the US's, overreaching religionists are usually dismissed as quacks and conmen, and Aussie men don't seem to think their dicks get bigger the more guns they have (instead, they think their dicks get bigger the more beer they drink — not so different to men from every culture on the planet).

It's downright relaxing, compared to what I experience when I visit the States.

[DeSwiss]

106. I CAN see how this ends nicely.

- Different perspective.



''The shock of discovering that most of the power in the world is held by ignorant and greedy people can really bum you out at first; but after you've lived with it a few decades, it becomes, like cancer and other plagues, just another problem that we will solve eventually if we keep working at it.'' ~Robert Anton Wilson

[center][/center]

[Dragonfli]

108. RAW is correct but in order to solve this problem he knew it would require

A great deal of reprogramming to overcome the primate psychology that is keeping us in the perpetual loop of the greedy and ignorant people guiding our future as they have throughout our entire history. For this is the recurring problem that will lead to our extinction if we do not evolve as a species internally towards a less myopic perspective.

We are living on the planet of the apes and the Ape leaders are as they always have been (this problem has never been solved) at a time when the beasts have the power of self extinction.

It has become a race between our evolution and our extinction.

[DeSwiss]

109. Apes with nukes.

- Oh, and the reprogramming process is underway.

[Dragonfli]

107. I see that aspect of things as well

No, it will not likely end well, and as I am sure you are aware it is a global problem and thus more dangerous than if it were only one country's situation.

At least we have our music and our memories to help us remain sane as we watch it unfold and fight our Quixotic little battles trying to oppose it...

[avaistheone1]

110. Things are definitely messed up.

I place the weight of my complaints squarely on the Republicans. Although our quality of life would be better if the Democrats would grow a spine and stop behaving like Republicans.

k&r

[Enthusiast]

113. It's FUBAR, Manny. K&R n/t

[xchrom]

115. du rec.

[michigandem58]

118. Not just you, there are lots of paranoid and negative people

n/t

[deutsey]

119. No, it's not just you

I'm especially saddened by what a bleak future my children may have if this madness continues.

[matthews]

121. No it's not you. And more and more and coming to the realization every day. nt

[ananda]

122. It makes me want one of those virtual reality headsets..

Real reality is just getting less and less faceable.

[BuelahWitch]

124. Definitely not just you.n/t

[uponit7771]

126. It's you, you complain a lot...I'm not the first person to tell you this either

[ProSense]

127. The country is in worse shape now than when Obama took office

In fact, it's the worst it has ever been, and can only get worse.

The end is nigh!

[LWolf]

129. No, it's not just you. nt

[treestar]

130. Yes.

[MannyGoldstein]

131. I'm glad I finally got an answer from someone

Thanks for taking the time.

[Catherina]

132. Not just you by far n/t

[polichick]

134. Hang on for a wild ride Manny...

before the great U.S. of A. crashes and burns.

Let's just hope something good arises from its ashes.

[HughBeaumont]

143. Unfortunately, "scorched Earth" usually gets you "Norsefire".

[RedCappedBandit]

135. Not just you. The neoliberal agenda has decimated countries around the world.

No reason to think the ruling elite won't/aren't trying to do the same thing here.

Just look at the trend towards privatizing everything.

[Jack Rabbit]

137. No, it's not just you

We can work through this one, as ProSense says, but it's not going to be a piece of cake this time. There will be resistance to the solution to this problem from some very powerful adversaries. We are already seeing that resistance in the form of climate change denial, an anti-scientific set of hooey sponsored by fossil fuel manufacturers, and the promotion of rewritten history that claims the rich are smarter than we are and we peons are the ones responsible for the collapse of the world economy.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is coming, and it must not be allowed to stand. The reason the government is fighting tooth and nail to spy on us is because as far as the real rulers are concerned, we are the potential terrorists.

[msanthrope]

140. Yes. It's you. Gird your loins. Generations before us have faced much worse and

have lived to tell the tale and prosper.

Of course, they didn't have the luxury of complaning about it 24/7. There's nothing like the irony of the 101st Chairborne complaining how bad it is from their air-conditioned living rooms. Or posting from their smartphones while at Starbucks.

[HughBeaumont]

141. Here's a simple thing I'm starting not to stand . . .

. . . the fact that we're constantly being told, through memes or directly or whatever, that we should be happy life isn't worse rather than be mad that it isn't better.

Tripe such as this produces the opposite of a positive message: Those in power use this cliche to get us to accept less and less in life . . . BUT . . . "be thankful your life isn't worse! It could always BE WORSE!!"

Goalposts get moved every month, and before long, "roof over our head", "food" and "clothing" will now be joining "education" and "health care" as former U.N.-declared human rights that are considered "luxuries" now.

American citizens cannot allow or accept their lives to be driven down in a ditch while a vastly overpaid handful takes everything.

[Maedhros]

157. The essence of Progressivism is seeking change for the better.

Not for circling the wagons and holding on to the last scraps of what we once had. This is why the LOTE voting strategy is inherently non-Progressive.

[tblue]

148. No, Manny. But it sucks

to see things this clearly.

[JoePhilly]

150. This has been predicted before ...

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?

Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.

Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.

Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...

Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!

Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Mayor: All right, all right! I get the point!

[MannyGoldstein]

153. A Friend Of My Family Was A Jew In Germany In The 30s

Her dad ran a butcher shop famous for its pork sausages - Jews were as integrated into German society then as they are integrated into America now. 50% of Jews married non-Jews.

Her immediate family up and left Germany in '35 I believe, because they saw the writing on the wall. Friends and family said they were overreacting, that they were nuts.

Almost all of the extended family perished in the Camps.

Had you been in Germany during those times, you, of course, would also have been one of the first to recognize that there was a problem.

[JoePhilly]

155. Ah, so now we're Germany in the late 1930s or so.

I find it interesting that so many Tea baggers are sure that we are about to become Nazi Germany too.

They claim that the ACA is "the writing on the wall". And soon, they tell me, we'll have FEMA death camps.

And yes, I find them to be nuts.

I'm curious ... sounds like you are taking off, leaving the US given that you see the "writing on the wall"?

So, where you headed?

[Snake Plissken]

154. Do you mean stuff like this?

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/07/26/2361651/bank-foreclosure-refuses-to-compensate-victim/

[Egalitarian Thug]

158. K&R for a good point and for bringing out the usual boot lickers. n/t

[ctsnowman]

159. Not just you.

Remember the guy in "Roger and me" He said "some people know what time it is". I listen every day to faux news talking points everywhere I go. There is no sense trying to reason with them. They don't have the tools to do the job.

[idwiyo]

160. No Manny, it's not just you and it's not just your country.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

164. Me neither. We don't have Republicans in this country.

What we do have is extremist right wing, very malevolent freaks.

[bvar22]

167. The Downward Trend for the Working Class continues.

The organized STEALING of the last bits of wealth from America's Working Class continues unchecked.
In fact, it IS accelerating.

50% of Working Americans NOW make less than $27,000/Yr.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023308914

Right now, forty percent of Americans make less than the minimum wage from 1968.
http://pac.petitions.moveon.org/sign/raise-the-minimum-wage-19/?source=search


Daily CEO Pay Now Exceeds the Average Worker's Annual Salary –
http://thecontributor.com/daily-ceo-pay-now-exceeds-us-workers-annual-salary




76% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/index.html


New Rule (Passed by Congress and signed by President Obama) signals Kiss of Death for Pensions
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100694955

Wealthy win lion's share of major tax breaks
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2013/05/29/wealthy-win-lion-share-major-tax-breaks/Ua0UyYle21EUXub7g1suCI/story.html

Half of America is in poverty, and its creeping toward 75%
http://www.alternet.org/economy/real-numbers-half-america-poverty-and-its-creeping-toward-75-0

Wealth gap widens as labor's share of income falls
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/wealth-gap-widens-labors-share-income-falls-1B6097385

As the Economy Recovers, the Wealth Gap Widens
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2013/03/11/as-the-economy-recovers-the-wealth-gap-widens

Top One Percent Captured 121 Percent Of All Income Gains
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/top-one-percent-income-gains_n_2670455.html

Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc


These things ^ do NOT happen by accident.
They take careful planning, preparation, marketing, buying the right politicians, message control, courts packed with Conservative Corporate Rights Judges, and the marginalization and suppression of any opposition.

This trend is also unsustainable.
That is WHY the 1% is urgently building the Surveillance/Security State,
and changing the laws to make "dissidents" (those who challenge Government Authority) the same as "terrorists",
because when the Working Class & The Poor realize how badly they have been screwed by BOTH Political parties,
they are going to need it.

So NO, Manny, you are NOT the ONLY one.
I live in a very poor part of Rural America.
They were desperately poor 10 years ago,
and they are WORSE off today.

We donate the surplus production from our Chickens and Veggie Garden to our local Free Store, and the families lining up for food on Tuesday Mornings are GROWING. They have the same vacant, 1000 yard stare as those in the photographs from the 1920s.
It is heartbreaking,
but Wall Street breaks RECORDS,
so


The Expansion of Medicaid may help somewhat,
but I see NOTHING In-the-Works or On-the-Drawing Board
from the Leadership of either Political Party to address this Economic Trend.

Raising the Minimum Wage is a laughable (in a sick sense) Token gesture,
as are the claims of creating new jobs (low wage, no benefits McJobs).
Despite the claims coming out of Washington, there IS NO "RECOVERY" for those of us who live on Main Street.
The Fast Tracked TPP (NAFTA on Steroids) will make it WORSE,
and those pushing it KNOW THAT,
and apparently do NOT care.
(Well, they "care" enough to try to keep the Working Class from finding out the depth of this betrayal by keeping it "secret&quot


You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity99%![/font]

[felix_numinous]

168. It is not just you.

American mainstream media has kept this country in a state of denial for many decades. People overseas can see what is happening here, because too many of them can see the writing on the wall. They have LIVED what we are now going through and recognize all the propaganda techniques being used on us right now.

Character assassination, divisiveness and aggressively countering anyone who can see the shift in the power structure are THOUGHT STOPPING techniques. We are now witnessing women and minorities now being made into second class citizens--included into this group are peace activists, civil rights activists, or environmentalists, or anyone who is anti corporate.

Also surveillance is INTIMIDATION, nothing else, it is very subtle but powerful way to make people conform to social standards. The old way was to have spies in every community but now this is not needed. The structure is in place for social control, and I think people unconsciously know this, and do not want to be on the wrong side of the power structure (right or wrong) out of a sense of self preservation.

The power structure being put in place rewards people who go along with the program--and believe me I think that UNCONSCIOUSLY this is the bottom line. I think that the militarization of this country works toward intimidating people into compliance. Just go along with the program and stay safe, hoping things will get better--and know you are even safer if you play along and ridicule your brothers and sisters for refusing to be programmed. This is basic psychology of groups.

A good book is The True Believers by Hoffer--I think it should be required reading for DU.

[tclambert]

169. Calm down, Manny. Take a deep breath and repeat: "This is the best of all possible worlds."

Hold on. . . . OK, thanks, I'm back. I had to run throw up. The thought of this horseshit planet being the best of all possible worlds got to me for a moment.

I keep thinking when I die and go to Heaven (I'll wait a few while you laugh at that idea) that the Lord God Almighty is gonna have some 'splaining to do. George W. Bush as President of the United States? God, what were you thinking? Never mind. You were stupid.

I want a refund for being stuck in this crappy universe.

[MissDeeds]

170. It's not just you Manny

I feel this country is becoming unrecognizable, as many of the principles and values that we held dear have been discarded. We have assumed so many of the practices and policies that we reviled in other governments.

[City Lights]

172. It's not just you, Manny!

[Progressive dog]

174. It's just you nt

[GeoWilliam750]

176. Love your bumper sticker

Would be nice to have Dean as a running mate, although others might say that there is insufficient geographic diversity. Personally, my view would be that it would have a high level of ethical integrity.

Would really like that ticket.

[LittleBlue]

177. K&R

Fucking joke this system has become

[JVS]

179. Gozer worshippers may have been right.

[matt819]

181. Nope. Not just you.

In fact, your summary is indeed very brief, but very accurate.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

182. Republicans just gave up their war on gays getting married....

The way you beat them is to force them to go on the record.

All it will take is a little push to proclaim themselves as the Party of Straight White Male Rule.

[Michigan-Arizona]

183. K&R

Not just you, count hubby & myself in feeling that way as well.............

[glinda]

184. No it is not just you FOR Warren 2016. We need help!

[bread_and_roses]

185. No, it's not just you

I drop by here several times a day to scan through LBN ... I always come away reeling.

[tavalon]

186. No, of course it isn't just you

I hope for a slow decline rather than bloody revolution, but if the NSA doesn't already know it, let me be the first to tell them, we are experiencing the end of empire. They are always so similar, the ends, and the inevitability of overreach and destruction just about guaranteed.

[Doctor_J]

187. excellent metaphor

Kick rec

[AAO]

188. I'm afraid we are rolling downhill, picking up speed, with no brakes. I'm a realist.

I think we've reached a point of no return. It won't end well.

[Phlem]

191. No it's not just you.

Thanks to my dickhead father in law for giving me PTSD, I now have Hyper Vigilance disorder. Feels like I can see the future sometimes but yea. We're headed for some hurt. Thanks to the plowing single minded fuck nuts that slunk in here, all of a sudden peripheral vision is something aghast. HVD means I'm looking all ways, over my shoulder to the left to the right up and fucking down with every breath for the past 42 years. Sorry it's just the way it is. We are going to suffer from the rich and ignorant.

-p

[Doc_Technical]

192. It's not you.

This has been going on for at least 150 years now, but
the people running the country have become more
blatant in the last 35 years or so.

[PlanetBev]

195. I agree

I am 62 and this country is now unrecognizable to me. I grew up with some semblance of journalism that would have called out the Republican party for the extremist lunatics that they have become. Now the MSM has worked overtime to normalize them.

I just hate what's happened to this country....