Biden & Clinton supported Iraq war. Neither has apologized....

[Luminous Animal]

both had the power and access to government intelligence and a national platform to turn the tide and neither one of them did.

Glenn Greenwald has admitted that he was politically ambivalent and trusted our democratic form of government. He was a private citizen. He didn't have a blog. He had no influence, unlike Biden and Clinton, to change the tide.

When it became apparent that the trust was misplaced, he wrote a book, not only exposing the lies of the Bush admin, but his own naivety.

When will Biden and Clinton do similar.

When will Biden and Clinton pose the question "How Would A Patriot Act."

[MotherPetrie]

1. K&R. Biden and Clinton also both voted for the Bankruptcy Reform Act.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

8. Rec

Beneficial to banksters.

[JDPriestly]

14. Which makes virtually ALL education loans not dischargeable in bankruptcy

and which enchains millions of students and young people in our country right when the economy is at its near-worst, and many of the students and former students would like to start families.

I hope that Biden and Clinton feel really guilty about this. Their children do not have to worry about student loans of course. Never did. But for the rest of us this is a terrible problem.

Bankruptcy should be there especially for times like these when people cannot get jobs and through no fault of their own.

[Brewinblue]

20. A truly disgraceful vote by any Democrat!

The Act was utterly unnecessary and served no purpose but to punish the downtrodden, often forcing them into poverty or even homelessness. All the while enhancing the already obscene profits of the credit card and mortgage industry.

[Dustin DeWinde]

2. you raise a fair point

That doesn't disqualify either of them from seeking the presidency but it is a legitimate issue they will have to address if they want the oval office.

[ProSense]

3. What a great defense of Greenwald

Bill Clinton!!!!

I mean, hiding Greenwald behind two Democratic politicians is hilarious.


"Glenn Greenwald has admitted that he was politically ambivalent and trusted our democratic form of government. He was a private citizen. He didn't have a blog. He had no influence, unlike Biden and Clinton, to change the tide. "

I didn't support the war. That's a lame excuse.

He "trusted our democratic form of government"? He trusted Bush!

"I had not abandoned my trust in the Bush administration."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023362984

[Dragonfli]

6. ?

He "trusted our democratic form of government"? He trusted Bush!

As did Biden & Clinton so your rebuttal appears to be self negating and nonsensical hence the question mark, you need to edit as I am sure you meant to post it differently
(Hillary Clinton was the one being discussed in this context and I thought I'd point that out because you don't appear to know what she supported)

[sabrina 1]

7. Clinton, Biden, Kerry and a whole host of other Democrats 'trusted Bush'. When will they

do what Greenwald did and apologize for their 'naivety'??

I have the greatest admiration for people who have the strengthe of character to admit when they are wrong. Greenwald need never have told anyone about this, but he chose to do so and it is absolutely shameful to use someone's HONESTY against them. Rovian is not the word.

What do you expect to accomplish by using these tactics? Most people ADMIRE that kind of honesty, so who is this aimed at? Have you changed any minds with these smears?

You probably have, you have probably gained support for him. Was that the goal?

And how come these smears are so 'uniform', as if they came from one source??

And again, when will those Democrats who had the power to send our troops to their deaths, unlike ordinary citizens who did not have that responsibility to cause them to be more questioning about that war, apologize to all those who trusted them with that responsibility??

And why is it so upsetting to you that people are asking this question and will, each time you remind them with this Greenwald smear?

[karynnj]

15. Kerry said to Take Back America in 2006 that his vote was wrong and that the war was immoral

(link -

)
That was not the first time he said his vote was wrong - even if it had never been a vote for war, but rather a vote to give Bush the leverage needed to avoid it. The first very clear time was when he spoke of a path forward in Iraq (to get out) in October 2005. The greater atonement was that in 2006, he led with Kerry/Feingold -- a bill that got just 13 votes in 2006, but got 51 in January 2007. The key provision was that a deadline was needed to be able to get out -- though it was called a timeline in 2008 when Bush backed one - it was what made it possible for Obama to get out of Iraq.

The fact is that before the war started, he said on January 23, 2003 that we should not rush to war and that if we did it would not be as a last recourse. He also said in September 2004 that he would not have taken the country to war - this in his speech on Iraq at NYU. All earlier than Greenwald.

As to Biden, he was an author of Biden/Lugar - the Senate Foreign Relations Committee alternative bill that Howard Dean said he supported. (It was also the bill that Kerry, a member of that committee preferred.) However, once enough Senators favored the IWR bill -- many on the SFRC worked to remove the worst provisions of the IWR (including most things that Gore objected to). In fact, without the changes they won, it is likely that neither men would have reluctantly voted for it. In 2008 in one of the debates, Biden gave an answer to why he voted - and it was not far from what Kerry said through 2004.

[progressoid]

11. .

[NuclearDem]

12. Still waiting on Biden and Hillary to apologize.

But they're Democrats, not libertarians, so I guess they get a pass.

[JDPriestly]

16. Greenwald was not a member of Congress at the time.

No one is perfect. That includes Greewald. But Greenwald has apologized.

Clinton and Biden have not apologized. They had or could or should have had access to the raw documentation on the WMDs, etc. They still supported the war. They were uniquely positioned to find out the facts and vote against that war.

Shame on Clinton and Biden. They should apologize to the American and Iraqi people and especially to those who lost loved ones in the Iraq War.

[NoOneMan]

4. One huge difference

Im not sure what it is yet. I haven't got the memo on it from HQ. When it arrives Ill let you know why Greenwald is a kitten eating devil incarnate

[Douglas Carpenter]

5. At least they are not blabber-mouthing about the NSA surveillance program and getting people

so worked up about that that there is even a very, very grave danger that Congress might have to get involved and respond.

Biden and Clinton and Kerry and a whole bunch of others for that matter have their faults including their support for the Iraq war - But at least that are not smart mouthing, back talking and making trouble for the NSA!! Glenn Greenwald and some others including some folks here on DU should learn from their example!!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

9. Is this sarcasm?

[Douglas Carpenter]

10. Sarcasm? Everyone has a right to disagree but NO ONE has a right to complain

especially about matters like government surveillance of us. They are only doing it for our own good!

"If you criticize the government - the terrorist have already won."

[joshcryer]

13. No excuse.

There's really no excuse for supporting or "being ambivalent" about the Iraq War. The only rational, informed, correct position on the Iraq War is to have been against it. Naivety is not an excuse. Lapse of judgment is not an excuse. No one is perfect, but by the same token, no one should have to apologize for being imperfect. Trusting in the Bush administration is just one said lapse of judgment.

All ignorance and naivety and failure to judge things correctly can do is instruct us further whether or not we're going to place our trust in said person. Some choose to, others don't. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. No side is right or wrong.

[HardTimes99]

17. Kerry said he still would have voted to invade Iraq even if he

knew for a fact that Iraq had no WMDs.

Now how fucked up is that? I swear, you can't make this imperialist shit up.

That it should come from a former leader of Vietnam Vets Against the War is merely the ironic icing on the imperialist cake.

[Ash_F]

18. You don't understand

Arabs were really REALLY unpopular back then.

[HardTimes99]

19. I'm assuming you were being sarcastic. I lost all respect for Kerry after

that faux pas (or maybe it really wasn't a faux pas?) and nothing he has said or done since (including his mealy-mouthed apologia in 2006) has caused me to regain my respect. Yeah, I held my nose and voted for him in 2004, rather than vote for the Nazi Party, v 2.0. But that's really damning him with faint praise since Kerry's argument, in essence, was 'trust me to fight the Iraq War and the GWOT better than Bush has.'

Talk about friggin' pathetic.

[Ash_F]

21. Only partially.

With all the talk of WMDs, terrorism, oil, and imperialism, the simplest and truest motivation for the invasion of Iraq gets forgotten. The bottom-line was anti-Muslim sentiment was high and enough Americans wanted to kill somebody badly enough that voting yes was the safer political bet.

Just like Vietnam, ten years on it was not so safe. A lesson for our leaders and our society which enables them.

[HardTimes99]

22. It's Vietnam that makes Kerry's stance so jaw-droppingly pathetic. He knew better but, just

like Hilllary burnishing her national security credentials, chose the politically expedient route. Too bad that 1,000,000+ Iraqis paid the price. But I guess some Arabs just 'needed killing'. (in case it's needed)