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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThey are doing everything right, but still one bad break away from poverty
http://www.ohio.com/news/local-news/they-are-doing-everything-right-but-still-one-bad-break-away-from-poverty-1.250917<snip>
Nelson, 54, of Akrons Goodyear Heights neighborhood, doesnt consider himself poor. He has worked most of his life, owns his own home and never needed to accept charity.
Theres a lot of people worse off than me, he insists. But after being without steady work for more than a year and having used up most of his savings, he admits hes at risk.
Im tapping into what I might have retired with but I have to live for today. You have to live like its your last day, he said recently. I dont want to live high on the hog. I just want to pay my bills and live a quiet life and retire sometime.
Part of his risk is that he doesnt have health insurance at the temporary, $10-an-hour job he recently took. His wife, Joleen, works cleaning a restaurant at night. She could buy health insurance at about $250 a month, but they cant afford it.
Hes not alone.
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![](http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/mpkartist/image.jpg)
That "take steps to balance the scale" is pretty cold and unrealistic IMO. The system is a runaway train and individual efforts to "balance" can be like throwing kleenex into a raging inferno. I also question the frame of "everything right"--even people who do something "wrong" should not be living with a sword over their heads if they make one misstep.
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Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)[div class='excerpt']It is harder for the folks who dont know the system, that dont know where to go and then I think the attitudes of people are different, said Frances Ladd, assistant director of programs....'''
You know one of the things were noticing with the new people that are out there that are losing benefits, they have no patience, Ladd said of people new to long lines at government offices. When you are chronically poor, you learn patience.
It's not patience, dillweed. It's called being worn down.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)And why should people be patient for this? How horrible. Their future is being stolen.
barbtries
(28,873 posts)she works there and still doesn't get it?
Abin Sur
(771 posts)Every one of my answers was on the left side of the balance, and the conclusion "poverty is not likely unless your circumstances change drastically" seems quite accurate.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I'm glad things are going well for you. Bless your heart.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)for you.
Abin Sur
(771 posts)Abin Sur
(771 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)in another thread around that time, when I asked if you were a materialist, you said you were.
and yes or no, do you support paying more in taxes so that people who have little can have the basics of food, shelter, clothing, education and so forth?
and yes or no, do you support cutting your taxes if the cost was that people who have not enough of the basics will end up with less of them?
Abin Sur
(771 posts)I don't care for anybody but myself"...does it?
in another thread around that time, when I asked if you were a materialist, you said you were.
Do you know what a materialist is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
In philosophy, the theory of materialism holds that the only thing that exists is matter; that all things are composed of material and all phenomena (including consciousness) are the result of material interactions. In other words, matter is the only substance. To many philosophers, not only is 'physicalism' synonymous with 'materialism', but they use both words to describe a position that supports ideas from physics which may not be matter in the traditional sense (like anti-matter or gravity).[1] Therefore much of the generally philosophical discussion below on materialism may be relevant to physicalism. Also related are the ideas of methodological naturalism (i.e. "let's at least do science as though physicalism is true" and metaphysical naturalism (i.e. "philosophy and science should operate according to the physical world, and that's all that exists"
.
How in the world is my being a materialist relevant to any conversation that we've ever had? In any case, I'm not on this board for the purpose of wearing my emotions on my sleeve for all to see. I'm simply here to amuse myself. At the moment, I find this conversation amusing...hence this post.
and yes or no, do you support paying more in taxes so that people who have little can have the basics of food, shelter, clothing, education and so forth?
and yes or no, do you support cutting your taxes if the cost was that people who have not enough of the basics will end up with less of them?
I'm sorry, but the questions are too broad. If it clarifies things, allow me to present my general take on taxes. Here's a chart of government spending (federal, state, and local combined) as a percentage of GDP.
This chart's moving in the wrong direction, overall. Given my druthers, I would reduce federal spending to about 17% of GDP. This would be accomplished via across the board cuts to all sectors of the federal government, no exceptions. No bank bailouts. No stimulus spending. A somewhat reduced military. Etc.
On the tax side of the equation, I would implement a flat tax at whatever percentage of income is required to fund this level of spending. No exemptions. No deductions. No exceptions. If this raises or lowers my personal tax rate, so be it For what it's worth, I currently pay a combined federal & state marginal income tax rate of about 30%. My gut feeling? That's plenty, and I'd like to see it go down.
Hope this helps!
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)or even a compassionate conservative.
Oh noes, gubmint spends too much and taxes too much. Cut Liheap, SNAP, and Head Start and cut my taxes too.
A flat tax?
Nope, none of that is the slightest bit progressive.
Abin Sur
(771 posts)It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate on our discussion forums in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints.
(emphasis mine)
Now, let's look at a recent poll which asked about support for a flat tax:
http://www.langerresearch.com/uploads/1127a5FavorabilityNo5.pdf
Favorable rating for the idea of a flat tax:
Republicans: 56%
Democrats: 40%
Independents: 46%
Overall: 47%
Say what you like about a flat tax, but it is objectively not an idea at the fringe of politics. It has has broad support among the country as a whole, and among close to half of Democrats.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Rich people can easily promote an idea which greatly benefits them, and even many Democrats are gullible enough to buy it.
It is an idea which SHOULD be at the fringe, because it is a really terrible, horrible, stupid idea. Well, stupid unless you are one of the rich people who gain lots of money from it, and you like the idea of living in a third world country.
Abin Sur
(771 posts)I pointed out DU encourages an exchange of ideas from the center and the left. You then questioned my views on taxation. I provided them, and pointed out that they are centrist.
So what's the beef?
As for a flat tax making a country a third world hellhole, I suggest you check out countries such Hungary which have adopted a flat tax. Hungary's is 16%.
I could live with that.
alittlelark
(18,891 posts)Not so for almost 99% of our fellow counrymen.
What do you not understand?
Abin Sur
(771 posts)Why is this the case? If some was on the "right" side of the scale and took actions the moved them to the "left" side, they would indeed by less likely to fall into poverty, would they not?
alittlelark
(18,891 posts)whose father has 3 PhD's?
Perhaps instead distilling Meth?
Robbing a bank?
Winning the Lottery?
Becoming a SUPERMODEL?
Becoming a WWF dude? ...........
Perhaps being my hubbies best friend who made almost a billion off his hedge funds?
WTF?
How many small companies can 'make it' anymore w/ the Chinese undercutting any and all.
STOP trying to act like it is a level playing field.....
IT IS NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.
Capitalism was supposed to create one and FAILED.
Abin Sur
(771 posts)I somehow managed to be on every "left" side of the scale just by being responsible and holding a steady job...
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)and as long as we allow the "financial services industry" to create money for nothing in order to lay claims to goods and services, there will be hard-working poor people who will never have any security in their life and who will live shortened lives, and then there will be game-players on the "right side" who waste enough for ten lifetimes.
Corporations must be killed, along with all their financial clap-trap, and production, not "profits" made the goal of the economy.
Nothing new or radical here. Adam Smith said the same in 1776.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)"Corporations must be killed, along with all their financial clap-trap, and production, not "profits" made the goal of the economy."
Adam Smith said it, but the corporations rose anyway. The economy and government is in the hands of the people who profit. Eliminating monopoly would be a good first step, but I would like to remove their power to keep rising. Otherwise, it is like we have to keep "belling the cat". And they keep starving the mice down into "chronically poor", so we can exhibit "patience".
xchrom
(108,903 posts)hunter
(38,471 posts)Where'd I leave those magic boots?
But hey, if they are talking about REVOLUTION. Then I'm good with that.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)RainDog
(28,784 posts)meow2u3
(24,828 posts)Many new poor are used to getting by largely on their own and, because of the sense of pride they developed over the years, are unaccustomed to asking for a hand up and are too proud to seek support, something many are forced to do for the first time in their adult lives.
Ladd also said it can be lonely for proud, newly poor people who dont like to share their problems with friends.
One thing I think with the new poor is that they dont have the supportive services that the chronically poor have because the chronic poor are all in the same boat, Ladd said. When you are new poor, you dont want everyone knowing your own business, so you dont have the same support. When you lose your house and you are in a new neighborhood, you dont know who to talk to.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Good thing I did, too. It more than paid for itself.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)What if you don't own a home to mortgage? So many people are living in the edge of a cliff....at some point, it's all going to crash down, collectively.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I had no health insurance.
It would have been a huge waste of money if I had.
Even now, after four days in a hospital, an EGD, and knee surgery for a torn meniscus, my employer has paid far more into insurance for me than I have received in beneftis over the last seven years or so.