IMF suggests nations tax the rich to lower deficits

[RainDog]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/11/international-monetary-fund-strongly-suggests-countries-tax-the-rich-to-fix-deficit/

Tax the rich and better target the multinationals: The IMF has set off shockwaves this week in Washington by suggesting countries fight budget deficits by raising taxes.

“We had to read it twice to be sure we had really understood it,” said Nicolas Mombrial, the head of Oxfam in Washington. “It’s rare that IMF proposals are so surprising.”

Guardian of financial orthodoxy, the International Monetary Fund, which is holding its annual meetings with the World Bank this week in the US capital, typically calls for nations in difficulty to slash public spending to reduce their deficits.

But in its Fiscal Monitor report, subtitled “Taxing Times”, the Fund advanced the idea of taxing the highest-income people and their assets to reinforce the legitimacy of spending cuts and fight against growing income inequalities.

The IMF is speaking out against the Republican Party. While in D.C.

[Turbineguy]

1. Teabaggers have a better plan

Destroy the world economy and deficits won't matter.

At least they think it's a better plan.

[Initech]

37. They're using the South Park underpants gnomes system of economics.

Step 1: destroy global economy.

Step 2: ????

Step 3: Profit

[truebluegreen]

2. well, well, well...

some of our children is learning!

[RKP5637]

28. +++ 1,000 +++ n/t

[MarchemintotheSea]

3. Well it beats the past policies of Kill the Poor!

and the IMF will become a Marxist, Socialist Communist Organization in ......3.......2.......1.......

[leftyohiolib]

8. you forgot kenyan muslim

[Cosmocat]

4. Uh ...

Not sure that advocating for the obvious will carry much weight in the conservative spin media.

[tecelote]

5. Hah!

They have come to realize that the poor and what's left of the middle class just don't have enough money to be concerned with.

They're turning on each other.

[RKP5637]

30. I think you're onto something. After the poor and middle class are carved out they will

have to start devouring the lower echelons of their own, and they will do that, their lower echelons of wealth will become the "new" poor and middle class to be decimated to enhance the wealth of the top dogs. They have no sense of loyalty, conscience or respect, not even for their own. They are fueled by greed, only the acquisition of $$$$$ counts, it is really a sickness and is destructive to a healthy society.

And, they destroyed the safeguards over the years, such as, a functioning progressive taxation system. They will eat their own, then finally, maybe, they will cave in and be gone ... and a healthy society will replace the ravages left after their gorging.

[B Calm]

6. Well duh, we been saying it for years! Instead,

our republicans want to spank the low paid working people!

[BillyRibs]

7. Dear IMF,

YA THINK!?

[malaise]

9. So then are they returning to Keynes

because it's been all Hayek and Friedman for the past 40 years.

[yardwork]

10. Wow! The IMF models must show that things are looking very dire.

Their data must be pretty scary. My guess is that they're seeing a future where countries fall apart due to economic insecurity. That's not good for rich people.

[RainDog]

13. A strong middle class is the strongest indicator of a strong democracy

The U.S. has been losing its middle class since the 1980s.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41421642?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21102767499123

Not to say the IMF cares about democracy, but the alternatives are all worse, so maybe the recent populist revolt from the right is stirring concerns about political instability in the U.S. because of a failure to address growing economic inequality.

There are lots of lessons from history about the damage to nations from economic crises.

[yardwork]

16. Europe is worse off than the U.S. economically. Things are getting bad globally.

Plus the IMF probably acknowledges global climate change.

[RainDog]

20. and austerity is to blame

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/10/austerity-europe-debt-red-cross

the lesson, over and over again, is that cuts in a recession don't help - something Krugman wrote about extensively during the 2008 crisis - and he noted the stimulus wasn't sufficient. But when you consider what the administration was up against, it was what could be done.

But, obviously, it was not good to bail out the bankers and let the homeowners lose their homes...

[YoungDemCA]

42. "A strong democracy" is not a desired goal for the rich...

In fact, the rich have done an awful lot throughout history-whether in America or in other countries-to undermine democracy, or at least manipulate the democratic process for their own ends.

[RainDog]

43. "The rich" are not a monolith

just as the middle class is not (c.f. the tea baggers.)

c.f. The Roosevelt family, etc. etc. etc.

sometimes people recognize a crisis and respond.

[RKP5637]

31. That, is the path we are currently on, countries will definitely fall apart as

the financial destruction of the majority continues, it's just a matter of time, and what could replace them is a good guess. The IMF wants to ensure the wealthy elite survive as the top dogs.

[RainDog]

38. In this case, the wealthy and the middle and lower classes are on the same side

because the suffering from an economic catastrophe that the Republican Party is offering will hurt ordinary people far more than it will hurt the wealthy.

And it is in such hard economic times that fascist movements gain strength (i.e. Golden Dawn and Ted's Cruzaders)

[MH1]

11. Think it might have anything to do with their recently new Managing Director, Christine Lagarde?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lagarde

[RainDog]

12. she claims Adam Smith as her economic guru

...and she also told Greeks to pay their taxes.

so, who knows.

[MH1]

18. Adam Smith may not be as one-sided and shallow as conservatives make him out to be.

I know, shocking, isn't it? that conservatives mischaracterize a historic figure to play to their own positions.

Of course, I'm hardly an expert, but have been listening to some lectures about the history of economic thought lately, and the part about what Adam Smith really said was quite interesting.

[mountain grammy]

19. She speaks out of both sides of her mouth, but at lease she sees two sides.

She actually acknowledges the poor exist! Big step for the IMF who helped create this mess.

[PETRUS]

14. Don't go thinking the IMF are your friends. From the article:

"..the Fund advanced the idea of taxing the highest-income people and their assets to reinforce the legitimacy of spending cuts..."

We do not need deficit reduction, right now we need more public spending and higher deficits. The reason to tax the rich is because inequality is unhealthy.

[RainDog]

15. LOL.

No doubt.

The issue, however, seems to me to be the introduction of the idea of taxes on WEALTH, not just income, to offset inequality.

Republicans have simply refused to address the issue of increased revenue as a way to deal with deficits. They simply will not address the issue.

So, what's important about the statement, imo, is the idea that the spending cuts that Republicans insist upon, are not sufficient to deal with the fiscal issues at hand if someone actually cares about deficit reduction.

And what's important is this person is talking to the wealthy with this statement, in regard to the current Constitutional crisis here.

[PETRUS]

17. It's noteworthy for sure.

And I'm certainly not trying to pick on you, just pointing that bit out for everyone.

[RainDog]

23. what's so weird

about this moment is that the "usual suspects" among the elite are responding to the current pending economic crisis while the Republicans fiddle with their tea bags.

That's what happens when you have to appeal to extremists to maintain any political power at the federal level - and, it seems for the Republicans, when their dominance is threatened, they decide to just blow up the world, economically.

One thing this crisis has indicated it that Republicans are not the party of fiscal responsibility.

[PETRUS]

26. It is pretty weird.

I guess I'm more or less sympathetic to the "Koch brothers created a monster and lost control of it" explanation.

[RainDog]

27. I wonder what kind of shit they're getting

because I think the letter they issued - saying... hey, we didn't want the tea baggers to do what we said we wanted them to do - was in response to people with financial power saying, in effect, "we will fuck you up if you cause a worldwide depression" ...in so many words.

But they're just two of the most familiar faces.

Dick Armey is right in there, as is Jim DeMint of the Heritage Foundation (which, btw, backed "Obamacare" when it was "Romeycare".)

[MH1]

22. "and fight against growing income inequalities." << also an important clause of the statement

There is the recognition that income inequality can be a problem.

While the IMF may still be problematic in many ways, this looks like a move in the right direction.

[PETRUS]

25. Sorta

A consequence of deficit reduction (and one we're living with right now) is unemployment and lost output. This hits middle and lower income people hardest, reduces their bargaining power, and leads to lower wages. It's contradictory to promote a policy of higher taxes on the rich for inequality reduction when it's paired with the idea of deficit reduction during a demand shortage involving mass unemployment.

[mountain grammy]

21. Oh no, she's French. Back to stupid "freedom fries."

[RainDog]

24. LOL

if the Republicans don't stop the default, I doubt too many people will care about their bullshit grandstanding. They'll be too busy guarding their backs from all the people who want to wring their necks for being so inflexible.

[doc03]

29. That will make the headlines at Faux won' t it? n/t

[RainDog]

33. I wonder how this will be received on the news here

and how politicians will respond.

[lonestarnot]

32. Beware of IMF fuckwads.

[Uncle Joe]

34. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, RainDog.

[RainDog]

35. thanks Uncle Joe

[Uncle Joe]

36. ..

Peace to you, RainDog.

[kentuck]

39. Oh, that's non-negotiable!

Much more preferable to cut Social Security and Medicare and all those "entitlements".

[RainDog]

40. and they're specifically talking about economic inequality

perpetuated by the last thirty-plus years of Reaganomics.

You know what's funny? Not funny ha-ha, but funny, ironic.

The Cruzaders are at the barricades yelling "tear down these walls" or some such racist dog whistling, pretending to be the gipper, pretending Obama is a commie bullshit, while the IMF is telling Republicans to tear down the wall of Reaganomics.

It's sort of like the moment that marks the death of a dreary ideology.

[BluegrassStateBlues]

41. This political and economic climate makes for the damndest bedfellows.

Time to get some rubbers.

[RainDog]

44. Erasers?

Gardening boots?

maybe Europeans recognize the danger of a nascent fascist movement, even if Republicans don't.