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(28,151 posts)
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 11:53 AM Oct 2013

A northerner's view of the south.

I am not one to start a thread on something there are many threads about.

There are many of these south-related right now and they get quite long and I don't get to spend much time on DU so I wanted to throw this out there: As a northerner from a kind of blue state I think I can actually relate to our southern friends who have to put up with all manner of teabilly nonsense where they live.

While Michigan (my state) goes blue for the WH and Senate it's blood red at all levels of state government and, of course, our Cong districts have been gerrymandered into all manner of contortions so our House delegation is by no means solid blue.

In my view we should all be as encouraging as possible to our southern friends & allies. It's hard enough to be somewhat alone in your views within your own community and can be discouraging. I live in a very red zone of this essentially purple state and it's frustrating as hell.

There are total teabilly assholes in every single state of our nation. Here in a pretty northern end of the mitten I see my share of confederate flags on pick-up trucks and elsewhere. I have been very deeply involved in politics and can tell you that no matter what, a Dem winning in this region is nearly impossible and virtually (so far) from state level on up.

Sure, maybe some regions of the country are unfortunate enough to have a larger percentage of the population that are members of Faux News nation and the like but the fact remains we all have them in our states.

Obviously the answer is not to stifle discussion but we are no better off if any mention of activity in the south spawns half a dozen OPs taking great offense at all the "bashing". Sadly this happens because, even if a south-related OP simply reports facts of some event we all know someone will chime in with some general statement about "the south". People who try hard to affect progressive change in that area can only feel discouraged and disregarded for their efforts at reading such things.

I think we should try to be less general in our choice of terms, that might help. Let's acknowledge the bullshit is from the RWNJs in this state or that.

Now that Michigan seems to have recently gone fascist we could easily be considered a red-state full of enough stupid people to elect the likes of Snyder to Gov and Bill Shuette to AG with GOP held House & Senate. Racism is rampant as is clearly seen in the plight of Detroit and other metro areas.

We need to be cognizant of those who fight the good fight as the under-dog in their communities when it comes to politics. It's damn hard to keep going much less keep others involved AND try to grow your membership in such territory and those who do so deserve much recognition and praise.

And on-going encouragement as well as any other help we can give them such as supporting some of their up-against-entrenched-Rethug state House race or whatever. Phone banking can be done from anywhere and making campaign donations is very simple to do in several forms.

We can create positive energy and end the divisiveness here and possibly start a progressive trend. I would love to see updates on progressive candidates in southern districts during the upcoming mid-terms. Hopefully they can draw some national attention and possible other benefits.

I hope we can start focusing more on our commonalities soon so that we can become successful at achieving our shared goals sooner.

Sorry for rambling...

Julie--who thinks unity is the only way we'll get anywhere

55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
A northerner's view of the south. (Original Post) JNelson6563 Oct 2013 OP
Thank you Julie...that's an incredible post. Much appreciated.. KoKo Oct 2013 #1
This Cheesehead sees the same things as Julie. Scuba Oct 2013 #2
Born and raised in AL... TroglodyteScholar Oct 2013 #3
We have to give the Tea Party credit where credit is due - hedgehog Oct 2013 #4
This nails it!--don't blame the South, per se..... lastlib Oct 2013 #23
Responsible voting is the answer. Chipper Chat Oct 2013 #5
+1 Jamaal510 Oct 2013 #15
Great words, let the bridges be built..... Rebellious Republican Oct 2013 #6
Julie, you are a Voice of Reason ... Martin Eden Oct 2013 #7
My hat is off to you kind lady. JimboBillyBubbaBob Oct 2013 #8
It's everywhere... pipi_k Oct 2013 #9
You would be surprised by how many rednecks live in Oregon N/T Dpm12 Oct 2013 #10
You would be surprised by the number of rednecks in Oregon NT Dpm12 Oct 2013 #11
Here's a map showing concentrations of tea party-type voters: surprise! They're all over. 7962 Oct 2013 #12
Like roaches. nt awoke_in_2003 Oct 2013 #48
thank you. Julie Chaco Dundee Oct 2013 #13
Thank you for providing a great message. TexasTowelie Oct 2013 #14
Agreed. 99Forever Oct 2013 #16
I predict she wont run in 2014. Chipper Chat Oct 2013 #33
Ms Teabagger has already... 99Forever Oct 2013 #37
Good riddance. Chipper Chat Oct 2013 #39
She has her congressional pension sewed up... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2013 #49
Nothing wrong with the south MyNameGoesHere Oct 2013 #17
This Michigander agrees, and is appalled at the state's Tea Party takeover Faygo Kid Oct 2013 #18
This Southern Progressive thanks you! MynameisBlarney Oct 2013 #19
K&R stonecutter357 Oct 2013 #20
I grew up in the heart of Liberal America - the People's Republic of Boulder, gtar100 Oct 2013 #21
''Julie--who thinks unity is the only way we'll get anywhere'' DeSwiss Oct 2013 #22
Your generosity. Many in the south love their civil war stance still. SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2013 #24
Thank you for the words of blue14u Oct 2013 #25
Born and raised in South Carolina and living there now stage left Oct 2013 #26
Welcome to DU... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2013 #51
that was really well written.. stillcool Oct 2013 #27
re:A northerner's view of the south. allan01 Oct 2013 #28
I am a proud southern progressive. dotymed Oct 2013 #29
I was in Michigan when Detroit elected Colman Young.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #30
The laws for redistricting and the electoral college MUST change. They are causing the collapse of judesedit Oct 2013 #31
Northerner from michigan pamdb Oct 2013 #32
Very well said, my friend skepticscott Oct 2013 #34
You can sit on my porch any time. nolabear Oct 2013 #35
I love Julie--who thinks unity is the only way we'll get anywhere TexasProgresive Oct 2013 #36
+1! Ramble on! It is discouraging on many levels. Dustlawyer Oct 2013 #38
Wow, thank you responders! JNelson6563 Oct 2013 #40
Mahalo, ,Julie.. Brilliant observation, Cha Oct 2013 #41
From another Michigander, Bravo! nt MrScorpio Oct 2013 #42
We are allies. We are one nation. ananda Oct 2013 #43
I live in the Pacific Northwest, LWolf Oct 2013 #44
Thank you very much for this, Julie. cordelia Oct 2013 #45
It's like you read a chapter out of my life in NC, love it! SaveAmerica Oct 2013 #46
I live in Oklahoma Rain Mcloud Oct 2013 #47
I'll add that a welcoming inclusiveness is the only way to bring in disaffected redsters. ancianita Oct 2013 #50
Thanks, Julie. StrayKat Oct 2013 #52
Also, StrayKat Oct 2013 #54
Right on the money Julie! erinlough Oct 2013 #53
Thanks so much. A much-needed post. Eleanors38 Oct 2013 #55


(5,477 posts)
3. Born and raised in AL...
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 12:12 PM
Oct 2013

Lived in a very red Georgia when I joined DU. What I learned about dealing with the generalizers is this: it benefits nobody here when I take it upon myself to assume that person is maliciously including me in these broad brush statements. It's usually not the case, so best to bear that in mind when engaging people who are speaking in broad terms about the region. These same people would stop having a problem with the South if more southerners shared my attitudes, so clearly I'm not the intended target of any perceived attack.

No big deal.


(36,286 posts)
4. We have to give the Tea Party credit where credit is due -
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 12:19 PM
Oct 2013

now we have a non-regional designation for Confederacy dead-enders!


(23,142 posts)
23. This nails it!--don't blame the South, per se.....
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:41 PM
Oct 2013

Put the blame where it really lies--on the backs of the Teahadists, Teabaggers, Tea-billies. The problems are of their creation.

Chipper Chat

(9,671 posts)
5. Responsible voting is the answer.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 12:36 PM
Oct 2013

Democrats and liberals/progressives-whatever win national elections for the Democratic Party but are woefully absent in off-year elections. Ergo: the republican candidates win - sometimes in a squeaker BUT THEY WIN. Believe me the Tea Party is organized - especially in the churches. The Sunday before election day the clergy speak fire and brimstone against those 'evil' democrats. The congregation marches home and write "remember to vote on Tuesday" on their calendars - and they do! Result: Rick Snyder, Rick Scott, Rick Perry and all the other (P)Ricks. We need Howard Dean's 50-state strategy back. Especially in 2014.

Martin Eden

(12,843 posts)
7. Julie, you are a Voice of Reason ...
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 12:58 PM
Oct 2013

... and you just delivered a very well articulated message that is orders of maginitude more important than 99% of the threads I see in DU.

Big K&R, and a Big


(1,389 posts)
8. My hat is off to you kind lady.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:00 PM
Oct 2013

I genuinely appreciate your words of reason. As a southerner, a progressive, and one who has been bashed simply for the nom de guerre I use on this site, which began as a hyberbolic joke incidentally, I understand the effect of painting with a broad brush. no rambling perceived from your words, again, just the voice of reason.

Thank You!


(21,020 posts)
9. It's everywhere...
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:01 PM
Oct 2013
I live in a very red zone of this essentially purple state and it's frustrating as hell.

Even in the bluest of Blue States, there are still little nests of red craziness. I see it a lot where I live.

Anyway, we Northerners often take our share of crap too. Maybe not politically, but so many people in the south are quick to point out how "rude" we are up here.

I don't think we're so much rude as cautious. Reserved.

And, in fact, what someone else considers "friendly" I, as a New Englander, might see it as being nosy or intrusive. Whether that's due to the culture here (just learned recently how insulated the French Canadian immigrants were when they came here), or my own family dynamics, who knows.

Kind of sad that people don't take the time to understand the area they're dissing...

Chaco Dundee

(334 posts)
13. thank you. Julie
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:23 PM
Oct 2013

I could not have said that any better if I had tried.now if our friends here in the south could embrace the north as well and we all could let north and south just be a thing of the past,which few of us had any influence on,we might be able to put our combined efforts forward and benefit the democratic cause more efficiently.


(111,912 posts)
14. Thank you for providing a great message.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:24 PM
Oct 2013

There are plenty of progressives in Texas that we can start taking back some of the statewide offices. Receiving the support of the national party with both financial resources and volunteer activity will have a tremendous impact of achieving the goal of turning this state blue again.


(14,524 posts)
16. Agreed.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:25 PM
Oct 2013

Our Senators? Al Franken and Amy Klobuchar.

Our Rep? (If you can call her that.) Bat guano crazy lady Bachmann.

Go figger.

Chipper Chat

(9,671 posts)
33. I predict she wont run in 2014.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:31 PM
Oct 2013

She barely squeaked by her opponent in '12. Look for her to join the Heritage Foundation as their newest link to god. Or maybe a stint on Fux News.


(14,524 posts)
37. Ms Teabagger has already...
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 08:12 PM
Oct 2013

... announced that she isn't running. In fact, there's a fair chance she might be doing time for campaign finance crimes committed during the Batshit Crazy for Prez '12 tour.

We can only hope.



(7,638 posts)
17. Nothing wrong with the south
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:29 PM
Oct 2013

I mean if I was living in Texas I could go around stroking my long gun all day today at the Alamo.

Faygo Kid

(21,477 posts)
18. This Michigander agrees, and is appalled at the state's Tea Party takeover
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:30 PM
Oct 2013

I'm in DC for now (born in Detroit, lived in Michigan 50+ years), but would like to retire back Home in a couple years. However, the corrupt GOP Michigan legislature gives me second thoughts. We considered other spots, like North Carolina, but that allegedly purple state is now in the grip of the worst right-wingers in the nation.

Northern end of the mitten - TC area or the Sunrise Side?

At least the fall colors must be beautiful today.


(12,693 posts)
20. K&R
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:37 PM
Oct 2013

I have lived in Alabama all my life and i can say i do not know one person in the tea party.that being said the place is full of the kelan and Nazis.


(4,192 posts)
21. I grew up in the heart of Liberal America - the People's Republic of Boulder,
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:37 PM
Oct 2013

as it is so affectionately known. My mom was a republican, my neighbors across the street were a bunch of racist Mormons, most of my friends had very conservative parents, and when a new elementary school was built, our friendly and well-liked principal went there and our neighborhood school got a conservative who cut after school programs and art classes I guess to save money. This was in the mid 1970's.

It matters who your immediate neighbors are. Generalizations can break down very quickly. And as liberals, we need to do all we can to not let conservatives dominate conversations. It matters especially to the kids around us.



(27,137 posts)
22. ''Julie--who thinks unity is the only way we'll get anywhere''
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:40 PM
Oct 2013
- DeSwiss--who knows that you're right.




(9,082 posts)
24. Your generosity. Many in the south love their civil war stance still.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:54 PM
Oct 2013

It's got to be something other than losing elections or defeats that could cause a majority of southerners to love all Americans. Southern Dems know them best. Would love an honest discussion on why they take from the Federal govt while demeaning it savagely.


(575 posts)
25. Thank you for the words of
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 01:57 PM
Oct 2013

kindness. I do see broad brushing here at times, for us in the South. The majority of it is true, so I don't take offense, I understand the reputation the South brought on itself.

I fight the good fight daily as a Liberal here in the MS< TN< ARK Tri-State area. I'm about 5 or 6 minutes to Memphis, and about 20 to Arkansas. I am surrounded..

We Dem's are here, we are just not heard from as much as we try. I do feel isolated, and want to leave the area so I can find more like minded people.. It would be a dream come true for me to live where I got to vote for a Democrat. I noticed that my REP. Roger Wicker (R) MS, is on the new budget committee.. What a hack he is and I have never liked him even in person as a person, much less a REP. So here I sit, feeling surrounded, and like I'm not a real person, with real ideals. Some days I feel like I'm the witch they want to find, and burn at the stake.

I keep going , and hope to wake at least one of them up. (No luck so far)..
I spend my time here b/c I know I can read and post with like minded people and that gives me comfort...Thank all of you here at DU for that!!!

If anyone would like to adopt me, I am available and would be so grateful....

stage left

(2,960 posts)
26. Born and raised in South Carolina and living there now
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 02:00 PM
Oct 2013

And I had to get over a good part of the raising. Many didn't get over it. It amazes me how these right wingers, some as poor as dirt, vote against their own interests year after year after year. They vote against their own interests and mine and the interests of human beings everywhere. I know it's mostly about fundamentalist religion and abortion. They're fully ready to see a child, especially a black child, starve, but they raise hell about a bunch of undifferentiated cells being aborted. There's a huge billboard on the road I take to town, railing about life beginning at conception and, of course, against abortion at any point, for any reason. Every time I see it, I want to burn it down.

I really wish sometimes that I could move to Vermont.
If someone's going to bash the stupidity of SC and its elected officials, I'd probably be right there beside you with my own club. It does give me a pang, however, when someone wants to kick the South out of the Union. I mean y'all fought a war, a really bloody war, to bring us back into the fold. At least that was one reason. Abraham Lincoln fought to preserve the union and I don't think he'd much agree about anyone talking about dividing us again. We're brothers and sisters after all.

So, this is rambling. Not your post, Julie. Thanks for your post. It's a really reasonable post and I really appreciate it. I also think we need more unity and less division as Democrats and Progressives. Though, I do, I truly do understand the frustration behind the South bashing posts. I've felt that frustration.


(32,626 posts)
27. that was really well written..
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 02:04 PM
Oct 2013

I am guilty of using the broad brush, particularly with Texas and Florida. Prior to 2000 I did not know or care what happened down south. I lived in Florida for 6 years, and because there were no black people where I lived or worked I saw no signs of racism...except for the staggering poverty in black neighboorhoods. Bush vs. Gore and the internet have made my world much smaller, and stories I would prefer not to have read about...things that have happened partcularly in Texas, have had an impact. The federal government and the actions of elected officials have had a huge impact. There are racist people everywhere, but I do not think systemic racism is as apparent anywhere else. I need to once again take a break from all political/news sites, so I will soon know or care very little about what happens anywhere else.


(5,610 posts)
29. I am a proud southern progressive.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 02:09 PM
Oct 2013

The people here that I know, are uninformed (except by corporate media like faux) and mostly do not even vote.
For one thing, voter I.D. laws make it onerous. Also they realize that many politicians are in it for the money.

They hear someone repeating a faux teevee lie and rather than investigate it, they repeat it, just like the propagandists want.
Many still believe (like when we had The Fairness Doctrine) that "News" shows must tell the truth, so Obamacare, raising the minimum wage, etc.. would destroy America. This is where it gets bizarre, these people are paid a pittance and most of them never had health care. But, being insulated from facts, they suffer and rely on each other to help them survive when they are injured and unable to work their low paying jobs. We do hold fund-raisers and try to help each other during tough times.
I'd guess that 80% of these injured people do not get surgeries or whatever would actually repair them. They SUFFER,
for instance if their rotator cuff needs surgery to restore them to their previous condition, they wait until the major pain subsides and
then figure a way to live with their disability. To them, this is "how it is" and they are convinced that universal health care would wreck America financially. Raising the minimum wage would just be offset by higher prices, etc..

Yes, we at least need the 50 state strategy that Dr. Dean pursued. If for no other reason "they" can be exposed to economists like Reich, politicians like Bernie sanders, etc.. some type of run-around the propaganda machine..


Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
30. I was in Michigan when Detroit elected Colman Young....
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 02:17 PM
Oct 2013

It was a prelude of the tactics and attitude we see since Obama was elected.

Sum it up with: "There goes the neighborhood!" which was followed by a systematic exodus of white people and white business and a concerted effort to deny anyone wanting to open a business within the city any type of business capital or loan.

Now Detroit stands as a warning to the rest of the country. This is what happens when you elect black people.

That "lesson" was learned by the rest of Michigan and that's why it votes for the people who took away their unions and their quality of life. Some of these people actually believe a vote for the Republican Party is a vote for white rule.

You know, because there are so many examples out there of guys who consider themselves to be the king of their castle.


(4,437 posts)
31. The laws for redistricting and the electoral college MUST change. They are causing the collapse of
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 02:43 PM
Oct 2013

this country. I have been getting a bit of an education of these things as I thought the electors were involved in most elections. I have been told this is not true. It is purely redistricting and, of course, voter purges and disenfranchisement that effect the primaries. We must press for changes some how, some way. We cannot continue as we are. We must stand with and support any person working to change these things as they effect all of us. As long as many old, uneducated, white men and women are alive in this country, we will have these obvious racial, homophobic, sexist, elitist lessons taught to the young. Thankfully, many of the kids do not listen to the bigots. Also, the influence big money has is obscene. The Supreme Court justices who voted to allow huge amounts of money to campaigns from undisclosed sources, will pay for the horrible, biased, lobby-bought decisions they've made in this regard. Our own consciences have a way of tormenting us far worse than any outside punishment could. Anyone with any knowledge of how to change the unfortunate situation of having to live with these imposters in our state and federal governments, please, please come forward. Join the minority in the south who are trying. Help us to unite and put this country back in the hands of reasonable human beings who will work for the betterment of this country and the majority of it's people. Otherwise, the 1% will continue to prosper while the rest of us suffer.


(1,332 posts)
32. Northerner from michigan
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 02:44 PM
Oct 2013

Julie, I'm in west michigan. Amash...Huizenga...the whole frigging DeVos clan. Tell me about it.


(12,154 posts)
36. I love Julie--who thinks unity is the only way we'll get anywhere
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 06:00 PM
Oct 2013

The modus operandi of the republican party since Raygun at least. Democrats whether on the far left or center left have to resist the urge to dance to the pukes tune.


(10,494 posts)
38. +1! Ramble on! It is discouraging on many levels.
Sat Oct 19, 2013, 09:02 PM
Oct 2013

The 50 state strategy was very effective, but it has to be a regular thing, one time won't do it! We have to understand that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has been working 35 plus years spending a LOT OF MONEY on state and local elections. They have a plan and they have been working it. Judicial elections and tort reform have been very good for them. They have gone as far as fake newspapers in what they term, "Judicial Hellholes!" Check out www.southeastteaxas.com. It used to run with no ads until they realized people saw through their disguise. It is free right outside of the jury assembly room.
Thanks again for your patience and understanding!


(28,151 posts)
40. Wow, thank you responders!
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 12:23 AM
Oct 2013

Not too long after posting this OP I went to bed as I work a midnite shift.

I really enjoyed reading all of your responses! I see much hope and a bit of varely hanging in there too!

I appreciate the kind words and the thoughtful replies.

If there comes a point any of you tireless but occasionally discouraged southern progressives get discouraged, remember there are many of us in red strongholds sprinkled throughout everywhere else who are right there with you!

Hugs & encouragement to all,


(296,780 posts)
41. Mahalo, ,Julie.. Brilliant observation,
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 12:53 AM
Oct 2013

analysis, and sage advice.

I so appreciate your thread! That's how Pres Obama was raised in Hawai'i.. looking for the "commonality". Not the differences. And, it shows in his history of community organizing and the way he governs. I think he may have met those who it's impossible to find any commonality with, though.

Here's to positive energy and a GOTV2014 that kicks gop/teakoch !!


(46,179 posts)
44. I live in the Pacific Northwest,
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 11:22 AM
Oct 2013

and we have plenty of teabaggers here.

I'm a middle school teacher. 8th grade studies the Civil War. I have students, every year, who get all excited, want to display Confederate flags and talk about how great the south is, even though they've never been there, and listen to a bunch of Lynyrd Skynyrd. They are clueless, but are sure that the south is a stronghold of...something. These are the children of rural teabaggers.

Ignorance is not limited to one area, and neither is wisdom. We've all got them both. A local friend IS a transplant from the south, having married a local; she shares a lot about growing up in the south. She's not ignorant, not bigoted, and, while she's still a Republican, she considers herself a "Rino," and is quite active in opposing the RW. Her kids, now in college, are Democrats.

My mom, whose been a staunch Democrat for most of my life, anyway, can still be heard spouting some of the conservative ideology she was raised on; the "taking advantage of the system" crap about people on welfare, etc.. She was raised by poor working people to whom "charity" was, and still is for her, anathema, even though she's volunteered for organizations that help people all of her life. One sign for me that the poor-people-are-leeches propaganda has been increasing is that I'm hearing more on the subject from her. I patiently and gently offer up examples of people in need; I don't have to look far, being a public school teacher. That quiets her down.

Nobody, and nowhere, is pure.


(2,174 posts)
45. Thank you very much for this, Julie.
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 11:40 AM
Oct 2013

If you're ever down Atlanta way, I'll treat you to as much peach cobbler as you can eat, and as much iced-tea as you can drink (but you don't have to endure the sweet stuff; even I can't stomach that.)

Thank you again.


(5,342 posts)
46. It's like you read a chapter out of my life in NC, love it!
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 12:08 PM
Oct 2013

And thank you for your comments.

This is worth a pile of gold if you ask me:

"We need to be cognizant of those who fight the good fight as the under-dog in their communities when it comes to politics. It's damn hard to keep going much less keep others involved AND try to grow your membership in such territory and those who do so deserve much recognition and praise."

And we had progressive candidates in '08, got them in office and they conveniently forgot they were even Democrats so they could stay in office (and they don't get votes from Republicans anyway so I've never understood that tactic). They read their districts and state wrong and kept on using old school southern politickin and we were floored as we watched it. So yeah, to be exactly the Democrat that you've described here, have that horror happen after all of our hard work is bad enough. Then to have the constant scab picking in this Democratic Forum is even worse.

So, thank you for your comments, they are appreciated.


Rain Mcloud

(812 posts)
47. I live in Oklahoma
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 12:19 PM
Oct 2013

until recently Norman,the home of the University of Oklahoma,the most liberal county in the state.
In 1993 it was tough to get a job,luckily my uncle in Montana was considering buying a semi-tractor and driving over the road.
He was hauling red cedar out of Canada on the back of a flatbed 3-ton he had bought at auction.
So i went to MT to help him.
The town was extremely depressed,the forestry had taken a huge hit by Reagan and so nearly all of the 3800+souls there were on foodstamps.
The locals had a pretty good barter system in place where foodstamps were exchanged for bullets and beer with the staple diet being in this order;beer,venison,elk,fish and potatoes and in season berries and apples or whatever they could grub.
The majority of people in town lived in pickup campers at the town dump by the river.

At the time this was the most conservative place that i had ever seen and they did not appreciate me laying the blame for their misfortune at reagan's feet.
It was always someone else's fault(usually minorities)but never their own and never the fault of republicans.
Then i started working in Canada,which in most ways was no different than what was going on in my new home.
I had started a friendship with some of the local Indian folks about my age,descendents of the dog people.
I mentioned to a friend about the observation that there were just as many hillbillies in western Canada as in the US,he just nodded sagely and replied(paraphrasing)Where ever there is white people there is white trash.
Later,i would verify his theory traveling all over the northern states and now via the interwebnitudes and having correspondence with people in northern Europe,i can verify;wherever there are white people,there you will find rednecks.

In my new home town in the year 2013,there are people who wander the town,drunk and scruffy with backpacks and American Flags invariably poking out of the flaps,looking for day jobs and handouts.
I have to look back and think how lucky that i have been and wish these poor people would quit blaming everyone else and educate themselves.

I love Michigan by the way.
I used to love to see the kids getting ready for Hackey season by testing the thickness of the ice like we used to test if the water was warm enough to swim by sticking a toe in in the spring time.


(35,926 posts)
50. I'll add that a welcoming inclusiveness is the only way to bring in disaffected redsters.
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 01:16 PM
Oct 2013

It's never too late for Republican voter friends to come on over. We're a big tent and they should be told that we need them.


(570 posts)
52. Thanks, Julie.
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 02:03 PM
Oct 2013

I've been wondering where these kinds of posts have been amid all the back and forth. I've also been disappointed that more people (myself included) haven't expressed their realization of the disadvantages of self-segregation, in-fighting, and secessionist rhetoric.


(570 posts)
54. Also,
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 02:16 PM
Oct 2013

I wanted to add a thank you to everyone who responded positively to Julie's post. It is good to see.


(2,176 posts)
53. Right on the money Julie!
Sun Oct 20, 2013, 02:07 PM
Oct 2013

I live in an all red part of the state where a Dem can't get elected as dog catcher and what Julie expressed is true. We all experience this.

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