Looks like Maria will be back in the loving arms of her family soon

[Boudica the Lyoness]

And what a lovely bunch they are!

Poor little girl might be going from the frying pan into the fire.

A Bulgarian Roma woman believed to be the real mother of the ‘blonde angel’ found in a Greek gipsy camp declared yesterday: ‘I want her back.’

Mother-of-ten Sasha Ruseva, 35, claims she did not sell Maria, now four, but was forced to leave her daughter with a friend in Greece as a baby because she could not afford the legal documents required to take her home to Bulgaria.

But the Daily Mail can reveal that a woman of her name has twice previously been arrested for trying to sell babies in Greece – and on both occasions skipped bail.

The father said, ‘I can’t remember all of my children’s names because there are so many of them.’ His brother said Mr Rusev has been ‘out of his mind’ since he first saw a picture of Maria on Bulgarian television two days ago and has barely stopped drinking since.

The family survive on child benefit payments of £40 a month from the Bulgarian state and live on potato soup and homemade bread.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2475971/Bulgarian-Sasha-Ruseva-believed-Marias-mother-wants-Greece.html

[jberryhill]

1. "Barely stopped drinking" what? The soup?

[Boudica the Lyoness]

2. Good point.

Booze is not cheap.

[jberryhill]

3. Wait for the follow up story...

"...since having been re-united with his daughter, Mr. Rusev has been so overjoyed, he's barely stopped drinking since."

[Boudica the Lyoness]

4. That made me ....

[jberryhill]

5. We're gonna need more of that potato soup!

[LisaL]

10. Certainly they are both very fertile. That soup must work wonders.

[pinboy3niner]

17. Or as it's more commonly known in the region...

...vodka.

[moriah]

12. I really suspect she was better off with the family who took her in.

The accounts all seem to indicate she was one of the best-treated children in her camp, lots of clothing purchased specifically to flatter her coloring.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

28. yes. child trafficking is great.

[MADem]

36. One report said she was being groomed to be a 12 year old bride for some wealthy pervert.

That doesn't sound like a good deal to me. No wonder she always had that sick look on her face in video and photograph.

She lived in a house, with only one bedroom, but her ersatz siblings didn't have a room that was all decorated. I guess they slept in the living room with Ma and Pa, or something?

Some suspect (with good reason) that the room was ginned up AFTER she was taken into custody for the photographers to take pictures of it, that it wasn't actually her room. The lice and insect bites on the kid would kind of bear out that theory, but what do I know?

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/maria-the-girl-found-in-a-gypsy-camp-was-groomed-to-be-a-child-bride/story-fnh81p7g-1226745995205

[moriah]

37. I had a feeling the "stage" was set there, yes.

I know my roommate's kids' bedroom is nowhere near that neat.

Still, unless they have concrete evidence that a particular old pervert was stalking her and waiting for the right time, it is a bit of a stretch to call traditional dowry and marriage practices that any Roma child in that particular area would likely experience "grooming for child marriage". If this family is her biological family of origin, it's likely she'd have experienced similar pressure to marry at way too young of an age.

Given the epidemic of Roma children in state care in Europe, the tendencies of state agencies to cut minority children completely apart from their cultural heritage when they go into care, and the extreme importance that Romani place on belonging, on the Roma/gadjo dichotomy... it's unsurprising that many would prefer their children to go to another Roma family that was better off than they were, if they felt they had to give up a child.

None of this is good. None of it.

[MADem]

39. Sorry--you're losing me. Forcing 12 year olds to marry is not culture, it's child abuse,

exploitation, trafficking, and slavery. The reports were that the family took her for begging, short term, and the dowry payoff at age 12.

The Greek couple (that supposedly bought her for about a thousand bucks) turned against each other pretty quickly once they were arrested, each accusing the other--now they have separate lawyers.

They didn't have a particular pervert in mind, from what I understand, they wanted to sell her to a wealthy Roma--one of those guys who has one of the big villas in the old country. Apparently there's a market for 12 year old brides, they're worth a bundle and more so if they're fair of skin and hair.

Historical perspective at this link. This is some sick shit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3148364.stm

[moriah]

41. A handful of "Romani kings" for well over a million Roma....

There's no doubt it's sick. And I really wish I could rescue every child going through these nightmares. Being pressured by family and the potential of ostracism to marry even someone your own age when you're still a kid yourself is wrong (and that's the more normal function of the custom from my understanding -- and I'm glad that girls are standing up to their parents and refusing to cooperate with those plans.).

What bothers me is the speed at which people have jumped to the conclusion that this was obviously the calculated, diabolical plan of this horrible couple, without considering that it's possible the mother might have wanted the child for the same reasons US couples adopt children -- to love them and be loved in return.

[MADem]

50. Not just the kings, the "players." The pimps and the exploiters.

If you watch the PANORAMA programme that aired on this topic, you'll see the villas, the wealth disparity, and the way the children are used as commodities. The Roma are both traffickers and trafficked; the poor are used by the wealthy, the children serve as livestock, cash cows, who beg, steal and get married off for a price. There is a value inherent in children--a CASH value. They're little earners, worth a hundred grand or more a year.

Also, when the couple turned on one another in jail (and they did, quickly, too) each accused the other of scooping up the kid for her earning potential. Sometimes, if it walks like a duck....

It's not like the Greeks just marched through this town (not a "camp"--these folks were not the "pick up and run" types, they were settled, Greek citizens, drawing social assistance benefits from way too many municipalities) and started busting down doors to screw with these people, they were targets of an investigation into drugs/guns/stolen property, and they found all of the foregoing when they went into that town. The kid was not part of the equation--she just stuck out, like she didn't belong.

Child exploitation IS a problem. Take an hour and watch this--it will curl (or uncurl) your hair.

[moriah]

51. I've seen it. Take 5 minutes and watch these two videos.

Last edited Fri Oct 25, 2013, 06:01 PM - Edit history (2)

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/25/world/greece-roma-children/ (edit: CNN adjusted the link of the video I referenced here since my post, I'll try to get the actual one I was referencing linked)
Second edit: The link to the video I originally referenced is now here: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/24/world/europe/greece-roma-visit/index.html -- and the mentions of non-Roma people buying children from Roma couples is what I think is going to end up being the big news.)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/lightbox/world/videos/9326794/Suspected-mother-in-Greek-Maria-case?KeepThis=true

I do think you are making more of the fact they had separate attorneys than I would -- any couple in such a situation would be recommended to have individual attorneys, they were arrested. And each lawyer is going to try to get the best deal for their client, which means adversarial proceedings usually even in much less notorious cases where a married couple are accused of a crime.

Yes, this kind of thing does happen. Saying that's absolutely, positively what's happening here based on extremely biased news coverage and some documentaries from other countries is the same as suggesting that "Banging In Little Rock" is good enough reason to assume that a random black family in Atlanta is affiliated with gangs.

And your "this is not" was actually a pretty accurate characterization of what DOES happen to Roma in Greece -- no, they weren't going in to check the skin colors of all the kids, but there was no specific probable cause against this family for them to have entered their home in the first place, and that was noted in the very beginning of this investigation and excused by all involved as an "ends justify the means" situation. Notice they haven't been charged with guns or drugs, or even having a headdress.

[loli phabay]

14. booze aint that expensive, you can get cheap vodka or rotgut easily

[LisaL]

27. Yea, but got mutliple children and they all supposedly just eat soup because they can't afford

anything else. So where did he get money to buy booze?

[loli phabay]

31. you know that booze is real cheap, pennies for liters, you know people all over the world buy

Little luxuries even when they are in poverty.

[Cleita]

52. Maybe it's cheaper in Bulgaria.

The reason our booze is so expensive is because of all the sin taxes piled on it. Also it's possible to brew moonshine vodka from all those potatoes.

[Egnever]

6. so it wasnt some nefarious kidnapping plot

Just a massive rush to judgment...

Nice!

[pnwmom]

7. No, it appears to be a simple child trafficking case.

That's so much better.

[Egnever]

8. Hardly it looks like situation normal for the Roma.

Not my thing but it isn't my place to tell them how to live either.

[pnwmom]

9. You're right, it's up to Greece and Bulgaria.

But selling children to the highest bidder isn't legal in either of those countries either.

"Greek police think Maria may have been sold on by a baby-smuggling gang who offer newborns to childless couples for up to £22,000. It is believed that Maria was sold for a knockdown price because police were moving in on child smugglers in the area."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2475971/Bulgarian-Sasha-Ruseva-believed-Marias-mother-wants-Greece.html#ixzz2ihq41XXD
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[moriah]

15. From all accounts, though, she stayed with this family for years.

I think if she had been taken in to be farmed off to US couples, they'd have done it by now. People don't want to adopt older kids in the US from foster care, and four is considered "older".

[pnwmom]

22. But she's not too old to be sold for a child bride, which is the other

possibility the police are investigating.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474417/Maria-groomed-child-bride-Roma-Gypsy-couple.html

Police now believe that Maria, who is thought to be four or five, was being prepared for marriage at the age of 12.

Her pale skin, near-white hair and blue eyes would have made her a ‘prize bride’ among the gipsy community.

She would have fetched Salis and Dimopoulou a large dowry, according to police sources.

Officers investigating the case believe the prospect of a bridal pay-off is why Maria had not yet been sold.

She was treated as an ‘investment’ to be nurtured and protected until she reached the traditional Roma ‘coming of age’ - usually at the age of 12.

[moriah]

26. And now that gets into some cultural issues.

I really don't like the concept of dowries, whether they're paying for a bride, or paying a person to take a bride off your hands. I really also don't like child marriage, or arranged marriage.

But this is a traditional culture, and for centuries this has been their practice, for youths to marry at a young age and it pretty much be arranged by the parents. The associated tradition of "kidnapping" a bride so that they can marry without their parents consent is also disturbing, and both practices have been linked as factors to vulnerability for exploitation. Suggesting that she was going to be sold as a bride, if they're referring to that practice, is kind of extreme.

Also, I saw in the documentaries that a dowry of 7000 Euros was allegedly paid for a girl who was a good thief. I think it costs far more than 7000 Euros to raise a child for 10 or 12 years. I suspect the only way they were making any real money off of this child was benefits fraud (one sighing of possible begging does not make it systematic). And as much as defrauding the government is a bad thing, it's the least of what they've been accused of with very little individual basis for suspicion.

[LisaL]

29. If the girl is a "good thief" then she brings in profit every day.

[moriah]

34. Yeah, that was the point in the documentary, that'd they'd make the money back.

That was a very high dowry amount, apparently, in comparison to the average.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

30. it's bizarre how much you are defending these Roma folks and their sale of children

what is the background for your willingness to constantly find excuses for the horrible act of selling your children into god knows what kind of circumstane? Most of the child trafficking in the world does involve parents as the sellers in places like India, Thailand, and elsewhere.

[moriah]

32. I find missing person's cases fascinating, to the point I volunteer to help out with the cause.

As a matter of fact, I had suspicions about albinism the moment I saw the nearly white hair of the girl combined with a mention of eye problems, and emailed the Greek charity taking care of her the first night I read about this case, to ask if they had considered it as a possibility. A genetic condition in a child is a *massively* important figure to help narrow down possible matches. I didn't really expect a reply, and was very pleased when there was an individual specific reply a few hours after the autogenerated one saying they'd look into it.

I also find racial profiling extremely disturbing. "Parenting While Gypsy" is no more a crime than "Driving While Black" is. Neighbors are truly the best way missing children are found, and that's why getting pictures and profiles out for the public is so important in missing persons cases. But so many wrong lessons seem to be coming from this story, and it's bringing to life a blood libel that's been perpetrated against a culture that has so many strikes against it already insofar as poverty and persecution.

[pnwmom]

33. Not if they bought her to make a profit by selling her as a bride,

which is what is being investigated. That's still child trafficking.

And, as Gloria Steinem says, when it involves men and their rights, it's called politics. When it involves women, it's called culture.

I would just edit that to say, "when it involves women or children, it's called culture."

[moriah]

35. As I said, dowries irritate me as a feminist.

But there are a lot of religious and "cultural" practices that piss me off that way, and I can't do very much about them, either.

It also irritates me to see stereotypes come out in full force and hurt innocent families, and it especially irritates me to see practices done by both rich and poor called by different names. American couples buy babies all the time. They pay exorbitant fees to "charities" which are often just as corrupt as any group the tabloids refer to as a "child trafficking ring" -- and are often probably the same groups. Adoption fees being paid were part of my old company's benefit package, it's that accepted. Kids suffer here in foster care because everyone wants the youngest baby, and poor families have little chance of adopting.

A private adoption between poor people that don't trust authority and who happen to be of darker skin, however? If they shared a meal, some would call it child trafficking. God forbid them possibly deciding to pay what she was asking just to help her out when they would have taken the child for free, out of love. Family, togetherness, belonging, is *very* important to the Roma, as they are in any group that has been persecute and had families torn apart by those in authority, and especially among cultures that have origins in "shunned" groups. No one mentions that, but the minority living in abject poverty struggling to survive are treated to victim-blaming on a massive scale and used to paint the largest ethnic minority in Europe with an incredibly broad brush.

The bitter irony of the situation is that white people have stolen kids from minorities for centuries, yet we are so paranoid they're going to steal ours.

[Cerridwen]

11. Aw, look; you brought the dailymail here as a

reliable source for information.

Well, if it confirms your bias, I guess that's all that's needed.

BTW and OT, what exactly did Boudica know of lions other than the words of her enemies?

[moriah]

13. Yeah, I posted a Mirror article in GD instead of LBR because of that -- look at the source.

Still, it is very interesting to me that the family she may have come from had albinism as a genetic trait. The Roma community members mentioned they'd taken the little girl to the doctor about her eyes, and I saw her squinting a lot in pictures, particularly in bright light. Ocular problems and severe photosensitivity are common in albinism.

[Cerridwen]

16. Yes, interesting. Newsworthy?

Using a powerless group's prejudice to attack the group? Wow. Sounds exploitative. A way to catapult propaganda with little to no consequences.

It's so easy to bully "the least of us."

[moriah]

19. The article is absolute trash on their tone, for sure.

And many of their assumptions.

But the story about a Bulgarian couple who had remained in contact with the Roma family had been a persistent one. The DNA isn't back yet, which is probably why most news sources are not talking about this yet. For those who have been keeping up with this saga and the appalling effects of the hysteria surrounding it, it is an interesting article for the sheer fact it may shed light on the girl's true origins, but like everything one must consider the source before taking all the claims as credible.

[pnwmom]

23. Here's CNN, quoting the Greek government news agency:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/24/world/europe/europe-mystery-girls/

The Greek government news agency also raised "the possibility of the existence of a ring bringing pregnant women to Greece from Bulgaria and then taking their children for sale." The agency cited past reports that empty coffins had been found for infants who supposedly were stillborn to foreign mothers in Athens.

[MADem]

40. Here, the same information is carried by the BBC. There's not a lot of interpretation going on when

it comes to collection of DNA and the statements made by the Bulgarian woman.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24657552

[WolverineDG]

18. Poor kid

At least the Roma couple cared for her. These losers didn't even report her missing

[LisaL]

21. She wasn't missing.

The alleged biological mother admits she gave her up.

[pnwmom]

24. Still only alleged. The alleged bio mom also says she doesn't remember

the girl's birthdate or the name of the woman she gave her to -- although she also claims to have called the woman on the phone several times to see how the girl was doing.

[SoCalDem]

38. Here's hoping the Bulgarian authorities can help this little girl get a better life

than the one she has ahead of her in either "family"..

[pnwmom]

25. All the people involved are Roma, both the parents who "gave"

the girl and those who "accepted" her.

[patricia92243]

20. Thirty five years old and ten children! That is sad in so many ways :(

[moriah]

42. Agreed. An article with video:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/9325727/Couple-could-be-Marias-parents

A relative says she absolutely did not sell her kid, and said "If she had, she would be living a lot better than this" essentially. I see his point.

[a la izquierda]

43. The Roma have been a much maligned group...

throughout history. Seems like you're quite happy to jump on that bandwagon. Why does that not shock me?

[whttevrr]

44. This whole thread is tragic...

... words escape me ...

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Yes.

The defense of child trafficking on "cultural" grounds is horrifying.

[whttevrr]

48. {:o(

We desperately need more women in charge of things.

[leftyladyfrommo]

45. A friend of mine adopted a Roma baby.

She was the last of 9 children and the family simply could not afford to feed her.

They adopted her from Romania. She is doing great here. She has done really well in school and is just a beautiful child.

[leftyladyfrommo]

46. I'm trying to find some good info on the Roma in Europe.

I did read that there are 5 or 6 million Roma spread out all over Western Europe. They originally came out of India. And I think that they have always been "outsiders." They have a very strong cultural sense and are close knit.

If children are being exploited then the governments of those European countries need to investigate and put child protection laws in force that will protect their children. We need to do more in this country. There is child slavery here, too.

But what seems to have happened with these children is a pretty commonplace practice in lots of countries in the world. Female children are a commodity. They are bartered and sold.

This is one of the reasons that it is so important for people everywhere to fight for the freedom and respect of women and young girls. Part of that is the fight for education for females.

This sort of abuse will end if people are educated, if people are respected and if child abuse is recognised for what it really is. Awful in any form.

[whttevrr]

49. This: " We need to do more in this country. There is child slavery here, too. "

It's horrific anywhere, but damn...

Sex Trafficking of Americans: The Girls Next Door

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/05/sex-trafficking-201105?currentPage=all

Even as celebrity activists such as Emma Thompson, Demi Moore, and Mira Sorvino raise awareness about commercial sex trafficking, survivor Rachel Lloyd publishes her memoir Girls Like Us, and the Senate introduces a new bipartisan bill for victim support, the problem proliferates across continents, in casinos, on streets, and directly into your mobile device. And, as Amy Fine Collins shows, human trafficking is much closer to home than you think; victims, younger than ever, are just as likely to be the homegrown American girl next door as illegally imported foreigners. Having gained access to victims, law-enforcement officials, and a convicted trafficker, Collins follows a major case that put to the test the federal government’s Trafficking Victims Protection Act.

A 13 year old for $500...

Continued (page 3 of 8)

Then, one day in December 2003, at a sleazy motor inn on the Berlin Turnpike—an 11.2-mile time-warp stretch of asphalt, lined on either side with at least 37 other no-tell motels—Paris remitted Forbes $1,200, and the girls, court documents show, were his. Buying girls like livestock is not unusual. Cheryl, a gems girl, at about 14 was sold by one pimp, “Love,” to another pimp, “Junior,” for $600. The New York City Police detective Wayne Taylor—convicted in July 2008 for the attempted kidnapping of a 13-year-old—purchased his thrall for $500 from a Brooklyn “pimp partner.” In fact, the price for an adolescent female slave is far lower than it was in the mid–19th century, when, adjusted to today’s dollar, the going rate was roughly $40,000, the price of a car.

What a nightmare...

[Cleita]

53. Ever heard of the Travellers?

They originated in Ireland where they are called Tinkers because the men are often metal smiths by trade. They have Roma traditions although they are fair like Europeans and often have red or blond hair. There are communities of them here in the USA. They also marry their young girls at the ages of twelve or thirteen, but I don't see any outrage about that here?

[leftyladyfrommo]

55. The Roma are an anthropologist's dream come true.

I have gotten a ways into one book that was written by a sociologist who grew up around the Roma and then went on to study them. Their culture is a closed one but it is just fascinating. It's ancient and in many ways resembles the ultraorthodox Jews. It is fascinating.

Their marriage laws are ancient. They came from India and were an untouchable class there. They found their niche as entertainers and muscians. But they left India hundreds of year's ago. But their culture is very like the ancient Indian culture they came from.

I never really thought about it, I guess. But the gypsies have a very complex culture.

But, they do have child brides - after the girls menses begin - so 13 or 14. By our standards that is too young. But in their traditions it is normal.

[gopiscrap]

54. good