General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMeanwhile, in the World's Largest Muslim-Majority Country: Bali Braces for Proposed Alcohol Ban
Expect a huge expat migration, if this comes to pass...
Draft legislation that was submitted to the Indonesian Parliament earlier this year, seeking to ban the sale and consumption of alcohol, may be signed into law in 2014 stoking fear in the tourist mecca of Bali that such a law would cripple the local economy.
The Bill for a Ban on Alcoholic Drinks, put forth by the conservative Islam-based United Development Party (PPP), would be applied nationwide. Proposed penalties for those found in violation of the law are severe.
=snip=
Indonesias Islamists won a major Supreme Court victory over the summer, overturning a 1997 presidential decree that blocked local governments from enforcing alcohol bans in their own communities. The Islamic Defenders Front (FPI), an ultraconservative group that forced Lady Gaga to cancel a sold-out performance in Jakarta over threats of violence, was behind the ruling.
The FPI, which is classified as a terrorist organization by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, has gained notoriety in Indonesia for its strict enforcement of Sharia law. They are known for raiding bars and nightclubs, as well as attacking religious minorities and members of the LGBT community.
Full article: http://thediplomat.com/asia-life/2013/10/bye-bye-bintang-bali-braces-for-proposed-indonesian-alcohol-ban/
Tourists at Legian Beach in Bali, Indonesia. A draft bill would ban alcohol in the worlds largest Muslim-majority country.
By JOE COCHRANE
LEGIAN, Indonesia They have defaced Britney Spears posters, denounced Pamela Andersons charitable work and threatened Lady Gaga and Miss World beauty pageant contestants. And now, hard-line Muslims in Indonesia, in concert with Islamic-based politicians, are eyeing new targets: Johnnie Walker, an award-winning local pilsner called Bintang, even the exotic drinks with cherries and little umbrellas favored by the countrys many international visitors.
=snip=
(Conservative Muslim groups saying they would lobby hard for the legislation during an expected debate in Parliament in the coming weeks) has kept alive fears that, even in a country that has a long tradition of moderate Islam and is led by a secular government, a ban on alcohol could pass. Critics of a ban note a possible wild card: with elections scheduled for next year, legislators might be willing to back prohibition to appeal to conservative Islamic voters.
Before the 2009 election, a similar dynamic led to the passage of a controversial (and now lightly enforced) morality law that outlaws art, movies and music that can arouse sexual desires and/or violate public moral values. And last month, the government ordered that the finals of the Miss World pageant, which some Islamic groups denounced as immoral, be moved from the outskirts of Jakarta to predominantly Hindu Bali.
Nyoman Suwidjana, the secretary general of the Bali Tourism Board, said that criminalizing alcohol would have a significant impact on the economy of Bali, which is heavily dependent on the tourism industry and drew a record 2.9 million visitors in 2012.
Full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/world/asia/hard-line-push-to-rid-indonesia-of-alcohol-worries-tourism-industry.html
arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)changed since 1984, I sure have no desire to go back there!
BainsBane
(53,038 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)DU'ers always seem to side with the genocidal dictators.
You get used to the fucked-u[ness of it after a while.
BainsBane
(53,038 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)due to threats of violent attack. To state that it is just banning alcohol that makes folks want to avoid that place seems to discount the bigoted attacks as something acceptable. Minimize and dismiss.
arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)a dictatorship
Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #23)
Scootaloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Simply noting that in 1984, Indonesia was ruled by Suharto and his "New Order" policy. Do you know what their GLBT policy was? Murder. yeah, see, gay peopel were seen as a "communist plot" to undermine Indonesia's strength, and so they were put to the gun like any other leftist, dissident, or person the regime just didn't like, and were thrown in the same shallow mass graves as every other victim. That number likely exceeds a million people dead, over the entire reign of Suharto.
When our friend Arthritis is lamenting the loss of the Indonesia he knew in 1984, that's more or less what he's sad for losing. Maybe it's unintentional, just a thoughtless "gosh, I liked being a wealthy tourist drinking beer on a Bali beach where I could ignore the genocidal dictatorship the locals suffered under!" I don't know. Not a mind reader. But I promise you, Arthritis wasn't longing for the fair treatment and welcoming embrace that Suharto gave LGBT people in 1984, because there was no such fucking thing.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)...
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Hitchens was right.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)we let emotions run what we ban (like a religion to some) and we accept and welcome a dialogue where we call people names on the one hand (smokers are evil/dirty/bad, gun owners are nuts/psychos/killers, people who have abortion are murderers/baby killers/etc) while the people in opposing parties and sides of the issues decry both the name calling and controlling of others as bad.
Hate and fear can drive people to try to control others through banning/restricting things. We know this, we decry it, yet day in and out the cheerleaders of such bans are seen as the victims (but only depending on which side of the aisle you are on - against choice on abortion you are an evil rw'er who wants to control someone Else's body. Want to stop others from smoking/eating things/drinking things/owning things you are awesome and anyone who does not agree is a libertarian/rw'er to be labeled and mocked).
In between these 'religious' wars of trying to control others sit the 'atheists' trying to get both sides to apply the logic and values they are using fairly instead of in a biased way. But the religious will not hear of it since it may offend their god.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)The Islamists could even give similar reasons to the New Yorkers: alcohol is dangerous, detrimental to families, etc. The drive of others to protect you from yourself using the government is dangerous.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)nobody is gettign executed for sodas, whereas there are some in Bali that want to execute for liquor.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
Turborama
(22,109 posts)And no-one, not even the non-Balinese have been saying they want to execute people over drinking.
Read the articles and you'll understand more.
Here's something else to help broaden knowledge on the topic (Bali is the red island)...
And, to further complicate matters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Indonesia
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)The other ethnic groups may do so.
Turborama
(22,109 posts)There might be a law in Aceh banning alcohol for everyone, but that's a small region on the tip of Sumatra. The recent Supreme Court ruling may mean they aren't the only region that does impose such a law, though.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Another dumb idea brought to you by fundamentalism.
Violet_Crumble
(35,976 posts)Bali without alcohol would be like the US without Disneyland!
Turborama
(22,109 posts)JI7
(89,259 posts)which i see going down if they ban alcohol. they get a lot of euro and aussie tourists .
msongs
(67,430 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)It's becoming popular as a site for Japanese weddings. Get married and have your honeymoon in the same place.
http://www.jtb.co.jp/wed/bali/
JI7
(89,259 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)The latest figures from Bali Discovery...
Growth in foreign tourists visitors to Bali is coming primarily from the following markets:
Mainland China up 23.59% year-to-date and now the 2nd largest source of tourist visitor to Bali after Australia.
Japan up 14.19% year-to-date. The 3rd largest source of foreign visitors to Bali is staging something of a comeback, steadily regaining lost ground after five years of steadily declining arrivals.
Taiwanese arrivals are up 27.3%, dramatically regaining ground lost in 2012.
Singapore arrivals are at an all-time high, increasing 13.05% year-to-date through the end of August. Singapore is now the 7th largest source of Bali visitors.
U.S.A. arrivals have increased 10.42% during the first eight months of 2013 and are operating at record levels.
German visitors are up 17.25% year-to-date with 62,690 visitors through the end of August.
Russian visitors year-to-date have increased 10.07%.
The Dutch market has improve 10.07% year-to-date through the end of August with 44,484 visitors.
Indian visitors are a new and emerging source of visitors to Bali. Now ranked 14th among all markets, Indian visitors increased 42.85% totaling 42,616 through the end of August. Indian visitors are poised to soon outpace Dutch visitors to the Island.
The Runners Up
Australian visitors remain the top source of visitors to Bali totaling 530,861 through the end of August. But, the days of double-digit growth from the Australian market appear to be at an end with year-to-date arrives ex-Australia down 0.64%.
U.K. arrivals to Bali have also gone flat, decreasing 0.50% year-to-date through the end of August.
http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=9931
Looking at this graph, you can see the Chinese rise in numbers has almost mirrored the Japanese drop...
Bali's numbers are rising stratesphorically, but as it is only a small island, is it a bubble that's about to burst...?
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)...
yuiyoshida
(41,834 posts)and for them to start prohibition there, would absolutely kill the tourist business. People would refuse to go and since tourism is important there, it will kill the economy. It will just become another poor, Islamic country.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)it is majority Hindu.
yuiyoshida
(41,834 posts)And heard there are some Buddhists there as well. But again, with prohibition it would ruin the tourist trade.
JI7
(89,259 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,834 posts)becomes poor and desolate. They did their job pushing the religion over the tourist trade and they will be happy they won!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Republicans. Both are trending downwards to.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)gopiscrap
(23,762 posts)and cut costs on courts and law enforcement...not sure I would agree with it though.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)If that country wants to ruin themselves with fundamentalist idiocy and sharia nonsense, give them no support and avoid them like the plague they want to become. Prayer rugs and korans will not fill an empty stomach. Maybe the people living there will come to their senses and create a government that has a clue and wants to allow sensible freedom for its people.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,847 posts)Enjoy your fundamentalist hellhole!
Turborama
(22,109 posts)The answer to why is in the articles and some of the previous replies in this thread.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Of course, it is difficult to go back with so many addicts.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)Lets go back to 11,000 BC. The good old days.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)Many sociologists theorize that a major reason humans settled down into farming communities in the first place was because of the abillity of such communities to produce alcohol. If not for alcohol the whole human civilization ball might have got rolling a lot later.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)hard-line Muslims, and fundamental Christians, and all of the other "we get to rule the world" religious nuts just shut the fuck up and leave the rest of us alone?
If alcohol is a sin, don't drink it. If sex is a sin, don't do it. If abortion is sin, don't have one. Just leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Like when young Barack Obama went to the "madrasa", which was basically the equivalent of Catholic school.