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Turborama

(22,109 posts)
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:43 AM Oct 2013

Meanwhile, in the World's Largest Muslim-Majority Country: Bali Braces for Proposed Alcohol Ban

Expect a huge expat migration, if this comes to pass...

Bye Bye, Bintang? Bali Braces for Proposed Indonesian Alcohol Ban

Draft legislation that was submitted to the Indonesian Parliament earlier this year, seeking to ban the sale and consumption of alcohol, may be signed into law in 2014 – stoking fear in the tourist mecca of Bali that such a law would cripple the local economy.

The Bill for a Ban on Alcoholic Drinks, put forth by the conservative Islam-based United Development Party (PPP), would be applied nationwide. Proposed penalties for those found in violation of the law are severe.

=snip=

Indonesia’s Islamists won a major Supreme Court victory over the summer, overturning a 1997 presidential decree that blocked local governments from enforcing alcohol bans in their own communities. The Islamic Defender’s Front (FPI), an ultraconservative group that forced Lady Gaga to cancel a sold-out performance in Jakarta over threats of violence, was behind the ruling.

The FPI, which is classified as a terrorist organization by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, has gained notoriety in Indonesia for its strict enforcement of Sharia law. They are known for raiding bars and nightclubs, as well as attacking religious minorities and members of the LGBT community.

Full article: http://thediplomat.com/asia-life/2013/10/bye-bye-bintang-bali-braces-for-proposed-indonesian-alcohol-ban/



In Indonesia, a Push for Prohibition Strikes Fear


Tourists at Legian Beach in Bali, Indonesia. A draft bill would ban alcohol in the world’s largest Muslim-majority country.


By JOE COCHRANE

LEGIAN, Indonesia — They have defaced Britney Spears posters, denounced Pamela Anderson’s charitable work and threatened Lady Gaga and Miss World beauty pageant contestants. And now, hard-line Muslims in Indonesia, in concert with Islamic-based politicians, are eyeing new targets: Johnnie Walker, an award-winning local pilsner called Bintang, even the exotic drinks with cherries and little umbrellas favored by the country’s many international visitors.

=snip=

(Conservative Muslim groups saying they would lobby hard for the legislation during an expected debate in Parliament in the coming weeks) has kept alive fears that, even in a country that has a long tradition of moderate Islam and is led by a secular government, a ban on alcohol could pass. Critics of a ban note a possible wild card: with elections scheduled for next year, legislators might be willing to back prohibition to appeal to conservative Islamic voters.

Before the 2009 election, a similar dynamic led to the passage of a controversial (and now lightly enforced) morality law that outlaws art, movies and music that “can arouse sexual desires and/or violate public moral values.” And last month, the government ordered that the finals of the Miss World pageant, which some Islamic groups denounced as immoral, be moved from the outskirts of Jakarta to predominantly Hindu Bali.

Nyoman Suwidjana, the secretary general of the Bali Tourism Board, said that criminalizing alcohol would have “a significant impact” on the economy of Bali, which is heavily dependent on the tourism industry and drew a record 2.9 million visitors in 2012.

Full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/world/asia/hard-line-push-to-rid-indonesia-of-alcohol-worries-tourism-industry.html
48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Meanwhile, in the World's Largest Muslim-Majority Country: Bali Braces for Proposed Alcohol Ban (Original Post) Turborama Oct 2013 OP
I cannot believe how much that country has arthritisR_US Oct 2013 #1
You think a genocidal dictatorship was better?!! BainsBane Oct 2013 #4
Given the choice between genocidal dictators, and Muslims banning alcohol... Scootaloo Oct 2013 #8
I don't think I want to get used to that BainsBane Oct 2013 #13
Wow. Gloss right over the 'attacks on LGBT people' and the cancellation of cultural events Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #23
They are going from one extreme to another and their government is still arthritisR_US Oct 2013 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author Scootaloo Oct 2013 #47
Not glossing at all Scootaloo Oct 2013 #48
Fundamentalism ruins everything. ForgoTheConsequence Oct 2013 #2
Religion poisons everything. backscatter712 Oct 2013 #35
And in the US, NYC sends the age to buy smokes up, people want to ban big sodas The Straight Story Oct 2013 #3
Agreed LittleBlue Oct 2013 #6
to be fair DonCoquixote Oct 2013 #17
To be honest, no one is banning soda nor punishing anyone in any way for drinkig soda. Bluenorthwest Oct 2013 #24
That's actually very unfair. This is about Indonesian laws being changed by non-Balinese Turborama Oct 2013 #29
It is already illegal for Muslims in Indonesia to drink alcohol. Bonobo Oct 2013 #5
No, it isn't. It's a sin, just as it is for any muslim anywhere, but it's not illegal Turborama Oct 2013 #7
Forgive me, I meant Malaysia, not Indonesia. nt Bonobo Oct 2013 #9
Pfffft. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #10
But where will Australian bogans holiday now? Violet_Crumble Oct 2013 #11
No more this! Turborama Oct 2013 #21
while Indonesia is Muslim Majority, Bali itself is MAjority Hindu and brings in a lot of tourism JI7 Oct 2013 #12
looks like the hindus are gonna get it from the new Indonesian order eh? nt msongs Oct 2013 #14
Japanese tourists as well Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #15
just read about that, starting to get a lot of Chinese also JI7 Oct 2013 #16
Chinese visitor numbers are 2nd to Australians & American visitor numbers are at record levels... Turborama Oct 2013 #19
What about cannabis? grahamhgreen Oct 2013 #18
It's illegal and anyone caught goes straight to jail. Mushrooms aren't though, oddly. Turborama Oct 2013 #20
Fair trade, I guess, lol... grahamhgreen Oct 2013 #33
I'll take two. ForgoTheConsequence Oct 2013 #38
I have heard that Bali is one of the most beautiful resorts, yuiyoshida Oct 2013 #22
Bali is not Islamic KamaAina Oct 2013 #43
Ah i thought it was... yuiyoshida Oct 2013 #44
i'm guessing it would hurt the entire country although bali itself might be hit worse JI7 Oct 2013 #45
but hey, fundamentalists don't care if the country yuiyoshida Oct 2013 #46
Moderate Muslim states are about as rare as moderate geek tragedy Oct 2013 #25
That should help the inflow of tourist money-NOT! hobbit709 Oct 2013 #26
it would definitely lower car inusrance and health care rates gopiscrap Oct 2013 #27
Boycott and isolate the kooks seveneyes Oct 2013 #28
what's next a bacon ban because you can't keep your religious from sinning? Sunlei Oct 2013 #30
Say goodbye to the tourism money, Bali. LuvNewcastle Oct 2013 #31
If you think this is something Bali wants, you are wrong Turborama Oct 2013 #32
Humanity was civilized once, then came alcohol! Coyotl Oct 2013 #34
Right. ForgoTheConsequence Oct 2013 #37
Just as an FYI about alcohol Kurska Oct 2013 #41
Could we make a world wide law that ohheckyeah Oct 2013 #36
My sentiments exactly! Couldn't have said it any better :) nt arthritisR_US Oct 2013 #40
This is not good. Indonesia used to be a bastion of moderate Islam. KamaAina Oct 2013 #42
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
8. Given the choice between genocidal dictators, and Muslims banning alcohol...
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 03:29 AM
Oct 2013

DU'ers always seem to side with the genocidal dictators.

You get used to the fucked-u[ness of it after a while.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
23. Wow. Gloss right over the 'attacks on LGBT people' and the cancellation of cultural events
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 09:13 AM
Oct 2013

due to threats of violent attack. To state that it is just banning alcohol that makes folks want to avoid that place seems to discount the bigoted attacks as something acceptable. Minimize and dismiss.

Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #23)

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
48. Not glossing at all
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 10:08 PM
Oct 2013

Simply noting that in 1984, Indonesia was ruled by Suharto and his "New Order" policy. Do you know what their GLBT policy was? Murder. yeah, see, gay peopel were seen as a "communist plot" to undermine Indonesia's strength, and so they were put to the gun like any other leftist, dissident, or person the regime just didn't like, and were thrown in the same shallow mass graves as every other victim. That number likely exceeds a million people dead, over the entire reign of Suharto.

When our friend Arthritis is lamenting the loss of the Indonesia he knew in 1984, that's more or less what he's sad for losing. Maybe it's unintentional, just a thoughtless "gosh, I liked being a wealthy tourist drinking beer on a Bali beach where I could ignore the genocidal dictatorship the locals suffered under!" I don't know. Not a mind reader. But I promise you, Arthritis wasn't longing for the fair treatment and welcoming embrace that Suharto gave LGBT people in 1984, because there was no such fucking thing.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
3. And in the US, NYC sends the age to buy smokes up, people want to ban big sodas
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:58 AM
Oct 2013

we let emotions run what we ban (like a religion to some) and we accept and welcome a dialogue where we call people names on the one hand (smokers are evil/dirty/bad, gun owners are nuts/psychos/killers, people who have abortion are murderers/baby killers/etc) while the people in opposing parties and sides of the issues decry both the name calling and controlling of others as bad.

Hate and fear can drive people to try to control others through banning/restricting things. We know this, we decry it, yet day in and out the cheerleaders of such bans are seen as the victims (but only depending on which side of the aisle you are on - against choice on abortion you are an evil rw'er who wants to control someone Else's body. Want to stop others from smoking/eating things/drinking things/owning things you are awesome and anyone who does not agree is a libertarian/rw'er to be labeled and mocked).

In between these 'religious' wars of trying to control others sit the 'atheists' trying to get both sides to apply the logic and values they are using fairly instead of in a biased way. But the religious will not hear of it since it may offend their god.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
6. Agreed
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 03:03 AM
Oct 2013

The Islamists could even give similar reasons to the New Yorkers: alcohol is dangerous, detrimental to families, etc. The drive of others to protect you from yourself using the government is dangerous.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
17. to be fair
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 05:17 AM
Oct 2013

nobody is gettign executed for sodas, whereas there are some in Bali that want to execute for liquor.

Turborama

(22,109 posts)
29. That's actually very unfair. This is about Indonesian laws being changed by non-Balinese
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 09:38 AM
Oct 2013

And no-one, not even the non-Balinese have been saying they want to execute people over drinking.

Read the articles and you'll understand more.

Here's something else to help broaden knowledge on the topic (Bali is the red island)...



And, to further complicate matters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Indonesia

Turborama

(22,109 posts)
7. No, it isn't. It's a sin, just as it is for any muslim anywhere, but it's not illegal
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 03:15 AM
Oct 2013

There might be a law in Aceh banning alcohol for everyone, but that's a small region on the tip of Sumatra. The recent Supreme Court ruling may mean they aren't the only region that does impose such a law, though.

Violet_Crumble

(35,976 posts)
11. But where will Australian bogans holiday now?
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 03:39 AM
Oct 2013

Bali without alcohol would be like the US without Disneyland!

JI7

(89,259 posts)
12. while Indonesia is Muslim Majority, Bali itself is MAjority Hindu and brings in a lot of tourism
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 03:40 AM
Oct 2013

which i see going down if they ban alcohol. they get a lot of euro and aussie tourists .

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
15. Japanese tourists as well
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 05:03 AM
Oct 2013

It's becoming popular as a site for Japanese weddings. Get married and have your honeymoon in the same place.

http://www.jtb.co.jp/wed/bali/

Turborama

(22,109 posts)
19. Chinese visitor numbers are 2nd to Australians & American visitor numbers are at record levels...
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 05:37 AM
Oct 2013

The latest figures from Bali Discovery...

The Winners

Growth in foreign tourists visitors to Bali is coming primarily from the following markets:

Mainland China up 23.59% year-to-date and now the 2nd largest source of tourist visitor to Bali after Australia.

Japan up 14.19% year-to-date. The 3rd largest source of foreign visitors to Bali is staging something of a comeback, steadily regaining lost ground after five years of steadily declining arrivals.

Taiwanese arrivals are up 27.3%, dramatically regaining ground lost in 2012.

Singapore arrivals are at an all-time high, increasing 13.05% year-to-date through the end of August. Singapore is now the 7th largest source of Bali visitors.

U.S.A. arrivals have increased 10.42% during the first eight months of 2013 and are operating at record levels.

German visitors are up 17.25% year-to-date with 62,690 visitors through the end of August.

Russian visitors year-to-date have increased 10.07%.

The Dutch market has improve 10.07% year-to-date through the end of August with 44,484 visitors.

Indian visitors are a new and emerging source of visitors to Bali. Now ranked 14th among all markets, Indian visitors increased 42.85% totaling 42,616 through the end of August. Indian visitors are poised to soon outpace Dutch visitors to the Island.

The Runners Up

Australian visitors remain the top source of visitors to Bali totaling 530,861 through the end of August. But, the days of double-digit growth from the Australian market appear to be at an end with year-to-date arrives ex-Australia down 0.64%.

U.K. arrivals to Bali have also gone flat, decreasing 0.50% year-to-date through the end of August.


http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=9931



Looking at this graph, you can see the Chinese rise in numbers has almost mirrored the Japanese drop...



Bali's numbers are rising stratesphorically, but as it is only a small island, is it a bubble that's about to burst...?

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
33. Fair trade, I guess, lol...
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 11:35 AM
Oct 2013
This guy told me that his dad would kill him if he ever got caught drinking, but that mushrooms are completely chill in his house.

yuiyoshida

(41,834 posts)
22. I have heard that Bali is one of the most beautiful resorts,
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 08:55 AM
Oct 2013

and for them to start prohibition there, would absolutely kill the tourist business. People would refuse to go and since tourism is important there, it will kill the economy. It will just become another poor, Islamic country.

yuiyoshida

(41,834 posts)
44. Ah i thought it was...
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 07:19 PM
Oct 2013

And heard there are some Buddhists there as well. But again, with prohibition it would ruin the tourist trade.

yuiyoshida

(41,834 posts)
46. but hey, fundamentalists don't care if the country
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 08:41 PM
Oct 2013

becomes poor and desolate. They did their job pushing the religion over the tourist trade and they will be happy they won!

gopiscrap

(23,762 posts)
27. it would definitely lower car inusrance and health care rates
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 09:25 AM
Oct 2013

and cut costs on courts and law enforcement...not sure I would agree with it though.

 

seveneyes

(4,631 posts)
28. Boycott and isolate the kooks
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 09:27 AM
Oct 2013

If that country wants to ruin themselves with fundamentalist idiocy and sharia nonsense, give them no support and avoid them like the plague they want to become. Prayer rugs and korans will not fill an empty stomach. Maybe the people living there will come to their senses and create a government that has a clue and wants to allow sensible freedom for its people.

Turborama

(22,109 posts)
32. If you think this is something Bali wants, you are wrong
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 11:28 AM
Oct 2013

The answer to why is in the articles and some of the previous replies in this thread.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
34. Humanity was civilized once, then came alcohol!
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 11:37 AM
Oct 2013

Of course, it is difficult to go back with so many addicts.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
41. Just as an FYI about alcohol
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:01 PM
Oct 2013

Many sociologists theorize that a major reason humans settled down into farming communities in the first place was because of the abillity of such communities to produce alcohol. If not for alcohol the whole human civilization ball might have got rolling a lot later.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
36. Could we make a world wide law that
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 11:44 AM
Oct 2013

hard-line Muslims, and fundamental Christians, and all of the other "we get to rule the world" religious nuts just shut the fuck up and leave the rest of us alone?

If alcohol is a sin, don't drink it. If sex is a sin, don't do it. If abortion is sin, don't have one. Just leave the rest of us the fuck alone.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
42. This is not good. Indonesia used to be a bastion of moderate Islam.
Thu Oct 31, 2013, 02:15 PM
Oct 2013

Like when young Barack Obama went to the "madrasa", which was basically the equivalent of Catholic school.

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