Is There a Revolution Coming? Americans Finally Realize Global Capitalism Is a Murderous Sham

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/revolution



“Did you ever ask yourself how it happens that government and capitalism continue to exist in spite of all the evil and trouble they are causing in the world?” the anarchist Alexander Berkmanwrote in his essay “The Idea Is the Thing.” “If you did, then your answer must have been that it is because the people support those institutions, and that they support them because they believe in them.”

Berkman was right. As long as most citizens believe in the ideas that justify global capitalism, the private and state institutions that serve our corporate masters are unassailable. When these ideas are shattered, the institutions that buttress the ruling class deflate and collapse. The battle of ideas is percolating below the surface. It is a battle the corporate state is steadily losing. An increasing number of Americans are getting it. They know that we have been stripped of political power. They recognize that we have been shorn of our most basic and cherished civil liberties, and live under the gaze of the most intrusive security and surveillance apparatus in human history. Half the country lives in poverty. Many of the rest of us, if the corporate state is not overthrown, will join them. These truths are no longer hidden.

It appears that political ferment is dormant in the United States. This is incorrect. The ideas that sustain the corporate state are swiftly losing their efficacy across the political spectrum. The ideas that are rising to take their place, however, are inchoate. The right has retreated into Christian fascism and a celebration of the gun culture. The left, knocked off balance by decades of fierce state repression in the name of anti-communism, is struggling to rebuild and define itself. Popular revulsion for the ruling elite, however, is nearly universal. It is a question of which ideas will capture the public’s imagination.

Revolution usually erupts over events that would, in normal circumstances, be considered meaningless or minor acts of injustice by the state. But once the tinder of revolt has piled up, as it has in the United States, an insignificant spark easily ignites popular rebellion. No person or movement can ignite this tinder. No one knows where or when the eruption will take place. No one knows the form it will take. But it is certain now that a popular revolt is coming. The refusal by the corporate state to address even the minimal grievances of the citizenry, along with the abject failure to remedy the mounting state repression, the chronic unemployment and underemployment, the massive debt peonage that is crippling more than half of Americans, and the loss of hope and widespread despair, means that blowback is inevitable.

[ejpoeta]

1. when enough people are starving and losing their shirts....

when people realize WHO is responsible and that it is not the poor and old people.... and when they cut off the cable.... then people will take to the streets.

[Myrina]

38. Therein lies the problem ....

.... the Right Wing has their base so thoroughly brainwashed that the other poor folk are the enemy that it will take .... a miracle, essentially, for them to wake up & realize they've been played by those they 'trusted'.

[Cannikin]

138. I find that a healthy dose of Christian scripture...

knocks their attitudes towards the poor for a loop when you confront them. I hate to use religion as a political tool, but our opponents don't. Its the most useful tool I've found for forcing them to confront their own hypocrisy.

[Zorra]

50. We may also have to learn how to fix stupid before

any significant number of conservatives realize who is responsible for their misery.

Conservative media and manipulation by RW churches and leaders controls their minds, and lives, and manipulates them to act against their own interests.

[ejpoeta]

171. that is true. they have people blaming a group who has absolutely no

power to fight back or to even have caused the problem. Until things affect some personally they refuse to see the reality of the situation and why we all need to help each other.

[kelliekat44]

169. "Global capitalism?" So is domestic capitalism...it was murdering long before global capitalism.

[Nye Bevan]

2. And don't forget other evil capitalist countries like Norway, Switzerland, Denmark and Germany.

These places put a "friendly face" on capitalism by providing universal health care, mandated vacation time, paid maternity leave, and plenty of other generous social benefits, thus helping to disguise the true horror of capitalism.

[pampango]

9. Nicely said. n/t

[Laelth]

28. Yes, those liberal (but still capitalist) countries ...

Frankly, I like "friendly face" capitalist countries. Liberalism works quite well.

-Laelth

[polichick]

87. They have a good combination of capitalism and socialism...

with a big ol' dose of intelligence!

[Nye Bevan]

91. And LOTS of free trade (nt)

[polichick]

98. They also have tons of protections for their people...

As just one example, most products (health and beauty) in our drug stores are illegal there because of toxic ingredients. In the U.S. we don't try to prevent cancer because it's too big a business - that's the kind of capitalism our leaders fight for. They protect the pharma and chemical industries, as well as the cancer industry - and screw the people.

[antigone382]

160. And what of the people who live in the developing countries where their products are made?

Is Norway party to any free trade agreements that diminish the ability of developing/underdeveloped countries to protect their own environments, economies, and citizens' rights? In the context of climate change, how is the rest of the world effected by Norway's economic dependence on oil sales?

I take the example of chocolate alone--the majority of which is produced on cocoa farms that are fully known to utilize child slavery--as a marker of our global economic depravity. The developed world gleefully eats candy produced by the hands of enslaved African children, and virtually nothing is done because there is a demand for it. We really, actually do that. I don't know whether Norway is an exception, but I doubt it.

For our electronics, the developed world relies on coltan sourced from the Congo, one of the most tragic examples of the history and legacy of imperialism--a place so bloodstained and plagued with the most horrific acts of rape and sadism imaginable, allowed to exist in this state because the minerals it produces are valuable to multinational corporations. Do the citizens of Norway benefit from the purchase and use of those products?

You cannot measure the justice of global capitalism by its effects in the countries that benefit the most. You have to examine the social, economic, and environmental effects of the supply chain that furnishes resources to those countries, of the economic system that has consistently ensured that the very poorest in the world supply the cheap resources and labor for the very richest.

[polichick]

161. You'll get no disagreement from me - Fair trade chocolate, coffee, etc...

is one way we as consumers can help. I go out of my way to buy that way, as do many people around the world. Electronics is a huge problem, as you say.

Bottom line: our gov't enables corporate profits at high cost to people here and everywhere else - and won't change until and unless the American people demand it. (Some gov'ts do much better when it comes to protecting their own people, if not the people of the world.)


Edit: typo

[GreenStormCloud]

165. How will those injustices cause an armed uprising in America?

The OP is claiming that things are so bad in America the we are about to see an armed revolution here at home.

Yes, the things you talk about are unjust. I am not disputing that.

[antigone382]

166. My response was really more to the topic in the subthread than the thread as a whole.

The point was made, albeit sarcastically, that European countries with strong social safety nets and good benefits put a "friendly face" on capitalism--the joke being that capitalism is not so bad after all. My point is that the "friendly face" moniker may not be far off, when we take into account the subjugation of third world people to supply the resources and labor for "modern" consumerist society.

I was simply pointing out that even when capitalism allows for social justice within a nation, we still have not proven that global capitalism, at least in anything resembling its present form, can provide social or environmental justice on a planetary scale. It has so far profoundly failed at doing so; in fact we are on the verge of an environmental crisis which virtually guarantees death and/or profound suffering for billions of people all over the world, and we are hurtling ever more rapidly towards it in the interest of "economic viability" and "growth."

[RKP5637]

59. Well said! n/t

[Th1onein]

110. I don't think capitalism is evil, so much as it is unbalanced by a lack of socialism and communism.

I think that we need all three. To have all of any one kind of economic system is a recipe for disaster. Just like everything else, a healthy system requires a healthy balance of several different types of economies. Capitalism, when it dominates the economic realm of any society, leads to extremes that are directly attributable to the imbalances in that system; such as the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, and destruction of the environment, and repression and the injustice that goes with it.

[antigone382]

167. I would argue that they do indeed put a "friendly face" on something that is evil.

The global supply chain which allows for that standard of living demands that billions of people all over the world be subjugated and their environments sacrificed on the altar of growth and free trade. If you can show me that the materials which provide Norwegians or Germans with everything from smart phones to candy are not sourced through conflict and slavery; if you can show me that they are no longer producing any carbon emissions whatsoever in excess of their landmasses' capacity to absorb it; if you can show me that their economic health does not depend on propping up the powerful by depriving the masses of fundamental needs (look up Germany's policy on structural adjustment in the Greek debt crisis, or Norway's interest in profiting off its' oil resources) then I will believe that this entire system is not predicated on violence and destruction.

[brooklynite]

3. When you line me up against the wall, please aim for the head.....

The revolution won't be coming. Dream all you want; it didn't happen during the Depression, it didn't happen during the Reagan era, it won't happen now. Our political system and economic system are far from perfect but radical change has never been desirable to most of the electorate.

[Zorra]

75. yada, yada, yada

No one will be shooting anyone anymore when the revolution comes, and don't worry, you will be free to leave anytime you wish, if you find that you can't handle the kindness, equality, and liberty.

[TBF]

81. He's right -

conditions will dictate whether folks rebel but in this country I actually fear revolution because I believe the fascists will rise up faster than Golden Dawn in Greece.

It's going to be a global rise-up of workers that finally rises against capitalism and eventually takes down the US. I may not be alive to see it but I do believe that is what will happen.

[sabrina 1]

154. It's already happening in Europe where the results of Wall St/Friedman

type Capitalism has destroyed the economies of every country that chose to go along for the ride creating unemployment and poverty and the destruction of safety net programs wherever possible (that is always the goal for some reason).

Tens of Thousands Rally in Rome against Austerity Programs

ROME - Tens of thousands of people rallied in Rome on Saturday, calling on the government to do more to create new jobs and to boost the spending power of workers.

The protest comes less than two months after Italy’s new right-left coalition government came to power under Prime Minister Enrico Letta following a long-drawn political squabble on the back of February’s inconclusive elections. “There’s no more time to lose. The unions consider it urgent that employment returns as a (top) priority on the political and economic agenda,” a joint statement from the country’s three main trade unions said. “Investments, income redistribution and a recovery in consumption are vital to support our economy.” Italy’s unemployment rate has ticked up to 12 percent, but for youths aged between 15-24, it has climbed up to a massive 40.5 percent.

The eurozone’s third largest economy plunged into recession at the end of 2011, with debt creeping up to some 120 percent of gross domestic product.

It's clear that Wall St. type Capitalism has failed and this is happening all over Europe. The 'revolution' will most likely take the form of huge strikes, refusal to support Wall St. candidates among other things, it already has in France eg, and eventually it will be Global. I doubt there will be an armed Revolution, that would be too easily crushed and it isn't necessary. The people, united, have powerful tools at their disposal to end the misery of Austerity policies.

[TBF]

157. yes -

I agree with your assessment.

[GreenStormCloud]

4. No revolution coming. Things aren't anywhere near that bad.

In fact, things are getting better for most folks.

[sendero]

6. Current economic statistics...

.. would be a pretty compelling refutation of the idea that "things are getting better for most folks".

They are not.

[99Forever]

18. Got anything to back up that statement?

No?

Wadda surprise.

[GreenStormCloud]

71. Yes. 67 years of life. See post #30. N/T

[99Forever]

139. Oh my.

Like your the only one around here that has been alive a long time and you are endowed with some "special" wisdom from it.

Tell me, old wise sage, what unlearnable things did you tuck away in your 7 years longer of turning oxygen into carbon dioxide you have on me?

[GreenStormCloud]

142. Actually, it is that you seemed not have learned the lessons that life has to offer.

There are numerous other posts in this thread where people explain why a revolution is not about to happen.

[99Forever]

146. These statements, smartguy:

"Things aren't anywhere near that bad.

In fact, things are getting better for most folks."

Not the drivel about predicting the future.

And the attempt at a personal insult? I guess you know where to place that.

[GreenStormCloud]

149. Check out these posts:

You are getting a LOT of push-back against the idea that revevolution being near or even desirable.

3, 69, 10, 12, 34, 51, 64, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21, 23, 24, 55. 72, 74, 95, 116, 121, 123, 130.

In my post #30, I listed many specific ways that life has become better in the last 50 years.

[99Forever]

162. Whether "life is better" depends entirely ..

.. where it is being viewed from.

You clearly don't fucking get that your perspective is hardly representative of squat.

I hear the same kind of crap from Teapublicans as they defend the 1% too.

Birds of a feather.

[snooper2]

118. It's an Internet Revolution!

Blog Power!

[Laelth]

30. From my perspective, things have been getting worse for "most" U.S. citizens for 40+ years.

That's an odd claim, GreenStormCloud. Care to explain what you mean?

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. "from my perspective" is the operative phrase here...

[marmar]

39. Not really. It's easily backed up with facts. Google is your friend.

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. then do so please...

[GreenStormCloud]

69. Let's take a look at 50 years ago and now.

1963
U. S. & Russia had huge amounts of nukes pointed at each other. Total nuclear war was only a mistake away.

U.S. made cars were worn out in only five years.

Very few homes had air conditioning.

Radial tires weren't in common use.

TV was from only three networks that all showed the same viewpoint in news.

The only daily newspaper available was your local papers.

Cable TV didn't exist except for a few isolated places.

Nobody had a personal computer.

The Interstate highway system wasn't built yet.

No internet.

TV sets would wear out in about three years or less. Color sets were unreliable.

There was no Medicare or Medicaid.

There was a military draft.

No microwave ovens.

An extension phone in the home was a luxury.

A long distance phone call was expensive.

Bills had to be paid in person or by mailing a check.

Shopping had to be done in person and required going to multiple small stores.

NOW
U.S & Russia have decreased their nuclear arsenals and have targeted their missiles at empty ocean. An accidental launch won't start a complete nuclear war.

Even U.S. cars will last a long time.

Most homes in the warmer parts of the country have A/C, even poor homes.

Radial tires are the only type made.

You have a choice from dozens of TV cable channels with multiple points of view.

Personal computers are common, connection to the internet is common.

Personal cell phones for each member of the family are standard. Long distance to anywhere in the US is a local call.

There is Medicare and Medicaid and as soon as the bugs are worked out ACA will come on line.

No military draft.

Everybody has a microwave oven.

TV sets are cheap and last a really long time.

Online payment of bills is possible for most bills.

Online shopping saves me time, gasoline money, and I can select from greater variety and has lower prices.

I can subscribe to almost any newspaper in the country and research their archieves, instantly, from my house. The price is usually no more than the cost of a normal subscription.

I could easily continue with the advantages of life in 2013 over life in 1963. Life is much better now than then. When life is improving, people don't revolt.

[NuclearDem]

73. I'm sorry, but that just reeks of the RW talking points about how the poor aren't actually poor.

Citing creature comforts as evidence that life is getting better ignores the countless ways things have structurally gotten worse.

Corporations have unprecedented wealth and power, thanks to Citizens United and buying off Congressmen, and it's going to drastically expand with TPP.

Police forces are being militarized to the point that demonstrations and protests are brutally put down for having the gall to speak about ideas unpopular among the 1%.

Surveillance of Americans is drastically expanding, with virtually no oversight.

It's now apparently legal to assassinate American citizens.

Poverty and inequality are skyrocketing, and welfare programs designed to minimalize that are being put on the chopping block by both parties.

War is becoming a default state of being for the US, with nearly a decade of it and military recruitment and presence at just about every venue.

Sorry, but online bill pay just isn't enough to make this shit look good.

[GreenStormCloud]

84. I lived in 1963. For that matter, 1953 also.

I will definitely take modern time over then. You are lacking in historical perspective.

Most people are concerned with things that directly effect their daily lives.

The things that you list aren't new. The government has ordered the ambush and killing of citizens before. Example: John Dillinger, Bonnie & Clyde, and others I could list.

Spying on Americans isn't new. J. Edgar Hoover did it a lot. Perhaps you should read up on the American Protective League formed with the blessings of Pres Wilson in 1917. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Protective_League The Attorney General boasted of the manpower they provided: "I have today several hundred thousand private citizens... assisting the heavily overworked Federal authorities in keeping an eye on disloyal individuals and making reports of disloyal utterances." That was your neighbor spying on you.

The bonus army protests were rather brutally put down.

War has always been our default position. There have been piles of military actions that involved armed combat at all times in our history. Only a few were actually called wars. Numerous actions against Native Americans. Actions into Mexico. Actions into various Central American countries to protect United Fruit. Combat in China - (Boxer Rebellion), Philippines - Islamic rebellion. We sent troops to support the White Russians during the Russian civil war. I could go on, but i should hope that you get the idea.

I still maintain that my daily life today is much better than it was in 1963, except that then I had a young body.

[CFLDem]

93. Thank you for bringing perspective

to the hyperbole.

[muriel_volestrangler]

119. Also from 50 years ago: the USA was ramping up a massive military intervention in Vietnam

having, in the previous 10 years, overthrown the elected PM of Iran to benefit oil companies, and attempted a CIA coup in Cuba. Civil rights for African Americans were significantly worse than for whites; homosexual acts were widely illegal, and the idea of same sex marriage would not even have been considered possible. Police forces used violence to uphold that unequal status quo. Abortion was illegal in nearly all states. Some states had a ban on contraception, and mixed-race marriage.

It's more than creature comforts that have improved. Sure, there are Republicans trying to get rid of the advances, but that doesn't mean that revolution is the only way to defeat them.

[GreenStormCloud]

120. True. N/T

[NuclearDem]

126. What used to be cartoonishly open villainy has just been replaced by covert means.

Yes, same sex marriage is becoming legal and African Americans are legally better off than the days of Jim Crow, but the Voting Rights Act has been gutted, and spiraling inequality especially in minority neighborhoods has led to soaring crime rates and brutal police crackdowns.

Police don't need to put down protests violently anymore because the justice system has been so corrupted and turned against the average person that the threat of draconian legal action against demonstrators scares people away from even doing so. And for those that do still protest, there's a militarized police force that employs sound cannons, heat rays, APCs, and soon robotic contraptions to crush them. Anyone at Occupy Oakland will tell you that.

Things may have improved on the surface, but the subtle, covert corporate power grab that's been enabled by every president since Reagan has made those advances virtually meaningless by keeping those groups in poverty and fear of reprisal.

[GreenStormCloud]

133. You foolishly think that the 99% want revolution.

Far from it. OWS types are a tiny portion of the population.

You still think that the OWS suppression was something new. Protest movements in the US have been even more harshly put down in previous times, with gunfire and machine guns. Do I really need to post even a partial list.

Most people are more concerned with the creature comforts of their daily lives than they are about abstract facts. You may call them surface improvement, but they are real improvements and they matter. Would YOU like to go back and live the lifestyle of 1963? The improvements since then are not trivial.

BTW - Carter gave anti-union trucking companies a huge gift when he deregulated the trucking industry. It didn't start with Reagan.

[hollowdweller]

170. The 60's would be impossible now.

If the gov't had the things they have now the protests and social revolution of the 60's never would have happened.

[tradesMan53]

153. things getting worse

WE are the only country without united health care also. Other countries
seem happier and healthier, in fact its been proven. The greed in this
country saddens me deeply NuclearDem, its even happening in our
own families.

[TBF]

82. I've got something better - FACTS

This is income inequality in the US as of a few years ago and it ain't getting better with the coming austerity --

[GreenStormCloud]

90. I posted facts too. Do you deny they facts I posted?

Do you deny that the improvements since then have made life better?

I like having A/C in homes when it is 110 outside.

I like having a home computer, internet connection, and smart phone.

That and the other things I listed and many others make life in 2013 better that it was, even in 1993, or in 2003.

I am not a rich person. My wife and I live on our SS checks and a job that we each have that pays barely above minimum wage. Yet, our lives are improving.

In the face of improvements that we can feel, do you think that people will revolt based on your chart?

[TBF]

99. I think conditions will warrant whether folks revolt -

you can't eat a smart phone comrade.

[GreenStormCloud]

101. The masses are not starving. In fact, we have an epidemic of obesity. N/T

[TBF]

104. Let's examine your assertions -

1. "The masses are not starving" - the SNAP cuts begin tomorrow so you forgot a key word "yet".

2. "In fact, we have an epidemic of obesity". You know I'm pretty fortunate. I can go to Trader Joe's or a farm market and fill up my basket with all the fresh fruit and veggies I want and I can buy the leanest cuts of meat. The SNAP recipients on the other hand have limited funds for food and will stretch their funds by purchasing unhealthy staples like starches that are not as healthy. Also there are many other reasons for obesity that could warrant a whole OP on their own.

Do you have anything else because so far you haven't convinced me of anything other than the fact that you are ignoring my statistics and trotting out worn cliches.

[GreenStormCloud]

107. SNAP people are not the majority.

People who depend on SNAP are a minority, they are NOT the masses. They are enough to riot, but not enough for a revolution. The cuts that begin tomorrow are not deep enough to even get them out onto the streets. To create a successful revolution requires the support of the MAJORITY. The majority would see the revolutionaries as being dangerous to their lifestyles, and many of them would grab their personal guns and be contra-revolutionaries. You would not be happy with the resulting civil war.

Almost half the country is RW, and armed. Much of the left is unarmed and against a violent revolution. So those who would be leftist revolutionaries would find themselves fighting against the governmental police and military and armed civilians. Your revolutionaries would be cut to pieces.

Much better to give up the fantasy of a revolution and instead - VOTE.

[TBF]

115. Oh I don't agree with revolution in this country -

don't get me wrong. I have no doubt we'd end up with fascism in short order whether the revolutionaries were successful or not.

I also don't agree that half the country is RW.

And I don't agree with your reasoning. I think if you keep chipping at people's income so they make barely any money, take away SNAP, take away Social Security - you are just asking for people to revolt.

[GreenStormCloud]

129. The OP claims that the country is on the edge of revolt now.

My argument is that the masses are content, therefore they are not about to revolt. Certainly, if enough things change then that will happen. But citizens will try the ballot box first, and will be successful. The violent revolution that so many here seem to crave isn't going to happen.

Besides, the NSA will know about the revolution first, and will have the leaders suppressed. The revolution will never be able to get organized. You can't make a revolution with a leaderless mob.

[TBF]

132. "Masses are content" -

I don't think they are. Folks are angry that they don't have jobs, can't find jobs when graduating, can't make enough $$$ in 40 hours to support themselves etc.

Will it take more austerity to get them in the streets? Yes.

Would revolution be successful here: Not if you prefer something other than fascism.

Are folks coming to their senses? I think some understand that the root of this is economic inequality - but the owners go to great lengths to keep folks divided and focused on anything other than class.

[NuclearDem]

106. That's not true at all. In fact, it's completely backwards.

In fact, not having enough to eat can cause it too. So does not having access to nutritious foods because the crappy stuff is cheaper.

When the body doesn't get enough nutrition from the outside, it eats muscle and converts it to fat.

Eating foods high in sugar and salt as well as heavily starched and processed foods also causes fat to build up.

[GreenStormCloud]

109. The masses are not starving.

No matter how you twist things, the vast majority of the population is eating well.

[NuclearDem]

111. You're still completely wrong that an obesity epidemic is evidence that hunger isn't a problem.

And if you're referring to the American diet as "eating well"...

The reason we have an obesity epidemic is because our diet is absolutely terrible. And that's for the people who can afford to eat.

[GreenStormCloud]

122. Yes, our diet of choice, and lack of exercise is terrible.

But they are still getting enough calories to live. No matter what you say, the masses are not starving.

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. I was going to bother

But you know what? Have at it.

[tradesMan53]

156. malnutrition

Obesity is just backwards malnutrition, fast foods are the only thing
the poor can afford, not to mention the garbage in the cheap section
at the grocery. It keeps them sick and unhealthy, the way the
RW wants it. SHEEPAL, is all they want.

[GreenStormCloud]

158. Fast foods are more expensive than stuff that has to be prepared.

With fast food you are paying for the food materials AND for the preparation AND for refrigerated distribution. That adds cost to that is passed on to the buyer. Your fast food argument gets a failing grade from reality.

And they don't form enough of the populace to form a successful People's Democratic Republic Revolutionary Army.

There is not going to be an armed revolution over food.

[bobduca]

44. "Most folks" as defined by your link-free anecdotes?

[GreenStormCloud]

46. Go to dictionary.com. "Most" is defined there. N/T

[bobduca]

48. So a majority of "folks" are getting richer?

Folks as defined by the people you know ? Is this a new trend from an economic report that nobody seems to know about?

[GreenStormCloud]

70. I didn't say richer, I said life is better.

Many things that were hugely expensive previously are cheaper now, or even free. See my other post on the differences between 1963 and now.

[rhett o rick]

144. I work at a food bank and say you are full of baloney. Things are getting worse every day.

Did you know that foodstamps were cut way back? Did you know that meals on wheels was cut way back? Did you know that lots of people are out of work and losing their homes?

The wealth gap is continuing to widen.

Things are great for the 1%.

[GreenStormCloud]

147. What percentage of the population relies upon SNAP, or Meals-on-wheels?

What percentage are losing their homes? What percentage are jobless? Those are a small minority of the population. Nowhere near enough to spark a fighting, burning, killing, getting killed, revolution.

Those percentages were far higher during the 1930s and there wasn't a revolution.

[rhett o rick]

148. More important is the fact that the disparity is growing wider. When I am working with

those that are living in their cars or couch surfing and getting three days of food a month from the food bank, I dont care about your percentages. What? I should tell them not to worry because they are only a small percentage. I think I read that almost 50% of the children under 18 in the good ole USofA live in poverty. How long should we wait? Until 75% children are starving? I can see why those that are comfortable dont want a revolution and upset their comfort. Capitalistic greed.

[GreenStormCloud]

150. We are discussing armed revolution.

The question is if the situation is bad enough that the masses will rise up in a successful armed revolution against the government to overthrow it and institute something else. That is the question.

Do you know what is required for a successful armed revolution?

Yes, there are people who are in desperate difficulties. I fully agree that there are. But are they enough for you to form a genuine People's Revolutionary Army? There aren't.

So talk of the US being on the verge of successful armed revolution is pure silliness.

[arely staircase]

5. yeah as soon as everyone gets through buying sneakers with lights in them

and blow job aps for their smart phones they are gonna start an anarcho-syndicalist revolution.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. LOL! +1000

[seveneyes]

7. No mention of an alternative system

What other systems in practice allow for someone to work harder to achieve or approach their ideal lifestyle? It's easy to predict doom, it's enlightening when the doomsayer offers a better means of survival.

[Hotler]

19. The alternative system would be to level the playing field.

Rule of law equal to everybody would be a start. Throw war criminals in prison. Send the Wall St. crooks to prison . Get rid of the loop holes for the rich. Tax their capital gains as income. Punish corporate polluters. Punish business and corporations that ship jobs over seas and hide their money off shore to avoid their far share of taxes. I could go on and on and on.

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. do you really see that happening?

[RKP5637]

61. I don't, we live in a very controlled group think society, many never question, and

many in the big picture are absolutely powerless. And, IMO, mankind has not yet evolved enough to create utopia for the masses. Individuals will always worm their way into positions of power and $$$$$, even in a supposed utopia given the current state of development of humanity. ... in short, we aren't there yet.

Solution IMO: Work to improve the existing system. Get those out of power that have been destroying this country. Get controls back on capitalism, for example.

[GreenStormCloud]

102. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Get those out of power that have been destroying this country And you think the new bosses will be any better? LOL.

[Puzzledtraveller]

8. No

Instead, we will elect Hillary Clinton the anti-corporatist liberal stalwart!

[Ikonoklast]

78. How is dkf? Seen him lately?

[Puzzledtraveller]

80. So DU is unanimous in their support for HC?

I'm the only outlier?

[Ikonoklast]

83. So Straw Men are your specialty?

Not puzzled by you in the least.

[Puzzledtraveller]

89. I love you

I don't know you but I love you.

[KY5]

10. A revolution would be the worst thing to happen to this country.

I've been through a lot of economic hardships, but I'd rather deal with those and try to make them better through the ballot box.

I'd rather not spend the last two-thirds of my life roughing it in some refugee camp. Things might not be ideal right now, but a complete upheaval of the system is not something I want to see during my lifetime.

[Puzzledtraveller]

12. I agree

Not to mention that any insurrection would be decimated beyond anything we have seen before.

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. Agreed. Those who seek this "revolution" have no idea what pain it would cause...

I am with you....rather spend my dwindling days in an Assisted Living Facility...not on a curb begging for breadcrumbs.

[Myrina]

42. Ultimately, is there much of a difference?

"rather spend my dwindling days in an Assisted Living Facility...not on a curb begging for breadcrumbs"

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. Have you looked into them?

I said Assisted Living....not Nursing Home.

[Myrina]

52. Where I am, there is elder abuse EVERYWHERE.

Regardless of what they call themselves.

[GreenStormCloud]

97. Assisted Living Facilities are apartments that are designed for older folks.

They are NOT nursing homes.

The residents clean their own apartments, can cook their own food, take their own medications, drive their own cars.

The apartments are designed to make things easier for old folks, and there are some services for folks who need some help, and a social director to organize events, and a nurse available if someone needs fast medical help.

[HappyMe]

51. I agree.

I would like to be able walk around with my husband without being afraid of rock throwing, looting, everything on fire....

[RKP5637]

64. And, there is no guarantee anything would be better, in fact, it could be a lot

worse. To me, it is most effective to work to get those out of power that are causing the economic hardships in this country. Hopefully, many are waking up to the fact that their vote counts.

[HappyMe]

68. Exactly.

Voting in every election is important. Local politics is where people get their start.

[NuclearDem]

76. Except it's getting virtually impossible to do even that.

Redistricting has made the suicide caucus and the extremists virtually immune to democracy, and the amount of money necessary to run a national campaign drowns out the average voice for change in favor of those with the money.

And our best chance for changing that, the amendment process, would require widespread support among those who benefit the most from the system staying the way it is.

[RKP5637]

96. It's akin to a cancer that has been allowed to spread, it's a deplorable situation. If, there

is any optimism in this, it is that many are finally starting to realize how fucked over they are to advantage a minority. Despite that, the information limited herd will still rally around those working hard to do them in.

[GreenStormCloud]

103. The information limited herd is smart enough to know that a violent revolution would be a disaster.

[polichick]

108. We definitely need a paradigm shift - might be messy for a while...

but that doesn't mean it's not essential for the long term security of this country and the planet.

[Earth_First]

11. Agent Mike says: "Bring it on!"

[Egalitarian Thug]

47. What gives you the right?

[JoePhilly]

13. That's some serious nonsense. And the last paragrpah is hilarious.

I love the part about how no one knows who, or when, or how the tinder ignites. But the revolt, of unknown form, is coming. Its a sure thing.

I will say this, the author has "a flare for ambiguity".

[gulliver]

14. The great thing about freedom is that you can try what you want.

If there is some other system that supposedly works so well, you would expect someone to be doing it. If it were possible for a group of people to live some other way and live better within some non-capitalistic system, it would be being done somewhere. I guess the Amish and various communes have a system they like, but by and large, most people just use the capitalist game and find it good enough.

Imo, if you make sure that capitalism is harnessed by a democratic government to ensure that its engine produces prosperity and promotes the general welfare, then you end up with a fairly good system. Republicans and libertarians might say that the harness is a limitation on freedom, but they are completely wrong. Government regulation keeps people from being slaves to capitalism. The fight against regulation is a fight against freedom.

Communism and other perpetual motion schemes are hopeless as long as people have to trade time for subsistence. Marx and Engels would have completely recanted Communism by now if they had lived in the last few decades.

Revolution ain't happening. Evolution is. The problem with economic revolutions is that they are generally run by idiots. Look at China, the Soviet Union, Cambodia, North Koriea...the basic idea there is an idiotic one. The revolution has the brilliant idea that it can just seize what it can't make for itself. Then it finds it can't sustain what it seized and proceeds to progressively uglier and uglier acts of barbarism and tyranny. The world is going the opposite direction from that.

The only way to supplant capitalism is to make a better system. The "revolutionary" folks can just start a non-profit, pool their resources, and build a better way. No one and nothing is stopping them.

[GreenStormCloud]

36. Excellent post. N/T

[RKP5637]

67. Well said!

Revolution ain't happening. Evolution is. The problem with economic revolutions is that they are generally run by idiots. Look at China, the Soviet Union, Cambodia, North Korea...the basic idea there is an idiotic one. The revolution has the brilliant idea that it can just seize what it can't make for itself. Then it finds it can't sustain what it seized and proceeds to progressively uglier and uglier acts of barbarism and tyranny. The world is going the opposite direction from that.

The only way to supplant capitalism is to make a better system. The "revolutionary" folks can just start a non-profit, pool their resources, and build a better way. No one and nothing is stopping them.

[Blecht]

125. Take a look around

Do you think there are no more idiots?

The way things are and the way they should be are two distinct things. Evolution would be nice, but history shows us that revolution is more likely. And if it happens here, it won't be pretty.

[FSogol]

15. Laughably desperate nonsense. No revolution in the US until TV goes dark & the stores run out of

chalupas and diet coke!

[marmar]

16. k/r

[sufrommich]

17. If there would be revolution coming to America,

I don't think the left would be happy with the outcome. It certainly wouldn't be a leftist revolution and those that think it would are being hopelessly naive about this country.

[MineralMan]

20. I consider the chance of revolution to be infinitesimal.

The last paragraph of that is way off the mark, I think.

[Demo_Chris]

21. There is no revolution coming, nor should there be...

In any case, the people who call for a revolution against Capitalism seem to only rarely have more than a glimmer of what it is that they want instead. Their vision might be bright and sparkling and even beautiful from a distance, but like the painted backdrop on a theater stage, the truth is revealed on closer inspection.

Capitalism is not perfect. Like anything else it has some serious flaws. But no system ever devised tolerates liberty with such enthusiasm, and none has ever worked so well to bring prosperity to so many. Left to its' own devices Capitalism will invariably lead to winners and losers, and left unchecked these winners will accumulate power over the system itself. This is where we are today, the world of Corporatism.

I don't believe we can or should try to reinvent the capitalist wheel, I think we should instead try enshrining it. But beyond this, I believe we need a New Enlightenment, a change in the way we view each other and life, a shift away from gods and myths, and towards knowlege and reason as the only possible solution to our problems. I am talking here about a true Enlightenment, in which every premise is questioned and those which do not work are rejected and replaced. Our nation was founded during and on the principles of the first Enlightenment, this is why our founders insisted upon a separation of god from government, but it is time we take the next step.

And this, comrades, is a battle that must be fought and won in our own minds, as individuals. If we win there we won't need bullets, just books and ballots.

[randome]

23. Well said.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[leftstreet]

86. People don't need 'enlightenment' to want higher wages

There's nothing wrong with the way people think

[Demo_Chris]

92. A New Enlightenment would include how people think about work and wages. nt

[polly7]

22. Finally, I think the whole world is waking up to it. nt.

[Recursion]

24. I hope not. They generally kill a lot of people and make things much worse (nt)

[sibelian]

25. There won't be a revolution. That's a dirty, foreign, hysterical thing.

Proper grown up nations like the United States that happened as a conscious choice, constructed with careful deliberation and common sense, would never collapse under strain like the grubby, babyish non-American nations that slobbered their way haphazardly through their long history largely by accident and luck. America will endure, unlike the flaky foreigners with their senseless, selfish socialism, governed entirely by their silly, slovenly emotions and absence of American moral hardiness.

Americans, being better, will rise above revolution. Revolution is for freaky sub-human uncivilised people like those bizarre European loser types.

Something like that, I think.

[xchrom]

29. !

[bobduca]

43. That is the "American Exceptionalism" argument in stark terms.

The American Exceptionalists here on this thread have their blinders on, as usual.

[JoePhilly]

55. Which version of Utopia follows this mass revolution?

Will it be the Socialist "all things equal" paradise some on the far left foresee, or will it be the Christo-Facist God fearing authoritarian fatherland version that the far right prays for?

See, both of those groups predict a revolution. I wonder which side gets its utopia, and which group gets wiped out during this revolution.

[gopiscrap]

26. hope so!

[Laelth]

27. Interesting.

I can't speak with accuracy about the rest of the world, but we, in the United States, seem to be very well-sedated. Football, baseball, reality TV (plus television, in general), Farmville, Warcraft, Facebook, movies, plus anti-depressants and other drugs--these are the things Americans think about and talk about. Mexico demonstrates that we will accept a lot more subjugation and a lot more poverty before we actually revolt.

I do not see a revolution on the horizon, and neither do our oligarchs. That's why they continue to push for austerity.

-Laelth

[VanillaRhapsody]

35. Revolution will come....but not in the U.S.

[oberliner]

37. Chris Hedges actively works against the Democratic Party

In fact, he delivered the keynote address at a rival political party's state convention.

[bobduca]

57. "a rival political party" aka Greens...

Partisan blinders securely attached!

[oberliner]

65. Green Party candidates attack Democrats and Republicans with equal vigor

They do not share out goal of helping elect more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government.

[truebluegreen]

58. And your point is?

[bobduca]

60. ...that we should ignore anyone but our Party Leaders(tm)

Also the poster was hoping that people would think that rival party was the dreaded REPUBLICANS! which is why he/she did not point that out.

[oberliner]

63. Helping elect more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government

That is one of the fundamental components of the mission statement of this web site.

Those who actively attempt to work against this goal, such as Chris Hedges, ought to be identified as such.

The Republican party is not the only one working to make sure Democrats do not get elected to office.

[truebluegreen]

85. Bingo.

[oberliner]

66. This person is not an ally in the fight to get Democrats elected

In fact, he has actively worked against that goal.

[Comrade Grumpy]

77. Some things are bigger than partisan politics.

But thank you for identifying "the foe."

[oberliner]

112. Such as dismantling global capitalism?

Is that something you support?

[NuclearDem]

79. Surprise, when you push leftists out of the party in favor of centrist corporatists

they become disillusioned with the party.

But yeah, demonizing socialists as the enemy is the solution. We totally shouldn't listen and figure out what we need to do to pull the party back to the left. Hillary 2016!

[oberliner]

113. There are plenty of leftist Democrats

Demonizing socialists as the enemy is not the solution, but neither is embracing socialism to the extent that this person does.

[NuclearDem]

117. Left by the American standard of left-right.

Hedges is in reality no more radical than leftists in Europe, but because this is America, he's portrayed as being too much of a socialist.

We'll never have a true left in this country if we don't drastically change how we view politics and ideology. Obama and Clinton are "left" only by our definitions--anywhere else, they'd be considered center-left at best.

[oberliner]

128. Agreed

But seeing as we live in America, we are going to have to accept the reality that our idea of leftist is not the same as Europe. I just think we have to be somewhat pragmatic and realize the contours of the electorate in this country.

[truebluegreen]

88. I'd consider him an ally in the fight for a better democracy...

and better Democrats.

[oberliner]

114. He works against getting Democrats elected

I don't see how that makes him an ally.

[truebluegreen]

124. Read what I said again.

[oberliner]

127. I don't see how it makes for better democracy and better Democrats

Are you suggesting that you would like to see Democrats embrace policies that are more Socialist? If so, I see that as a boon to Republicans. And that is the last thing we need.

[truebluegreen]

131. Why, yes. Yes I am.

"Socialist" programs like Medicare for All; a stronger Social Security program including higher monthly payments; better safety nets and anti-poverty programs, more access to public education including higher education; more investment in infrastructure, especially renewable power. You know, "socialist" programs Democrats used to be for, before they were for handouts to the business community, international trade agreements that destroy American manufacturing and sidestep environmental controls, privatizing education, etc.

I'm dying to hear what your definition of a better Democrat is.

[oberliner]

135. I'm happy with the Democrats we have

I support, for example President Obama.

Chris Hedges on the other hand has said:

"It doesn’t really matter on the fundamental issues whether the President is Republican or Democratic."

and:

"Obama is more interested in courting the corporate rich than in saving the disenfranchised."

and:

"Fear is the only thing the Democratic Party has to offer—fear that the Republican Party is worse."

and:

"The last liberal President we had was Richard Nixon"

and:

"It’s time to turn your back on the Democrats"

These are not sentiments that I agree with.

[truebluegreen]

137. I'm glad you are happy.

It is working so well for the majority of us, and the country.

[Vashta Nerada]

40. A revolution will never occur in this country because millions here are too apathetic to do anything

[sibelian]

45. Nooooooo no no no no NO. It's not "too much work".

It's BENEATH THEM.

[Seeking Serenity]

72. Or because too few people here want to kill

or be killed in a violent upheaval of everything they've ever known and where the prospect of something better is far from assured.

[Vashta Nerada]

74. Hmmm.

Good point.

[polichick]

53. We can hope - cuz the status quo is unsustainable...

And also sucks.

[tridim]

54. In a related story, when is "Honey Boo-Boo" back on the air? nt

[RKP5637]

56. More people are finally getting it that capitalism highly rewards cheaters, crooks,

hustlers, ultimate greed and sociopaths. And the rest, the rest get pushed aside and trampled under.

The basic message of capitalism is to fuck over everyone else. It's based on uncivilized survival instincts and brings out the most egregious behavior in many humans.

In a world with increasing population, shrinking resources and finite space, it takes a pretty dimwitted individual and/or one on the take to not see what is occurring and where we are headed into a sea of despair and misery for the majority.

Solution: Work to improve the existing system that has been torn apart over about the last 30 years.

[librechik]

62. and then the media will crush it as if it never existed.

Oh, and if that doesn't work, they have already started placing TSA agents at public events and train stations. It won't take long until "show us your papers" will be a widespread and accepted institution.

And I won't even mention swat teams everywhere, even in small towns, Total Information Awareness, and the tanks of the National Guard, which should be arriving home from Afghanistan right about hen they will be needed here.

Yeah, I'm just imagining things.

Revolution is as antique and impossible in the 21st Century as war. We need something new and different, instead of all the old failed solutions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. One thing is for sure

you won't hear about it here. At least not in the beginning.

I am oh so surprised that is still allowed, but then again we need to maintain the fantasy. Though the pushback you are getting is to be expected.

[CFLDem]

95. "Viva La Revolucion!

...because the current system doesn't happen to be working for me at this time!

So I'm going to gamble my life and the lives of everyone I know and love on a revolution that historically is likely to leave all of us worse than the current system."

That's some level headed thinking right there.

[GreenStormCloud]

100. Populations don't revolt over abstract ideas.

They revolt over things that they can directly feel. The masses are eating well, (we have an epidemic of obesity) live in a home or apartment that is heated and air conditioned. The masses have cable or satellite TV, internet, cell phones, a car or two, clothes, shoes, guns (in most states), video games, and other stuff. People like that don't take to the streets in revoution.

I have been hearing about the revolution that is ready to happen ever since the 1960s. And I am sure that people like the author were predicting it before I was born.

[Eleanors38]

105. Revolution: Where centrists practice fundamentalist belief that it won't happen,

Where lefties can experience politically-correct paranoia.

My take? Stuff is getting bad enough that the center won't hold, and the change which occurs will have lefties playing catch-up.

The right can have their "gun culture."
I'll just keep my guns.

[FreeJoe]

116. There won't be an anti-capitalist revolution because there aren't enough stupid people

People can easily see how capitalist countries compare to their non-capitalist counterparts. Hmmm...do I want to be in Canada or North Korea? Should I go with Norway or Zimbabwe? These aren't really tough decisions. People will want to continue to tweak and improve them, but capitalist/market based economies aren't going away until after someone demonstrates and alternative that is workable.

[polichick]

152. The examples of great capitalist societies that you give are actually...

examples of societies that mix capitalism with smart socialist policies that protect their people.

Our capitalist society is one that fails to protect people so that corporate profits are as high as possible.

Apples and oranges.

[jazzimov]

121. Revolution:

"Revolution"

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out

Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright, alright

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We don't love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait

Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright, alright, al...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
Alright, alright

[FarCenter]

123. Revolutions are generally unsuccessful -- what revolution would you consider a success?

The French Revolution is one of the few that started as a revolt against economic conditions. However, after some years, Napoleon brought order and the French Empire which was then defeated by outside forces.

The Russian Revolution would probably never have succeeded unless Russia had been essentially defeated by Germany and Austria-Hungary first. And it wasn't long before Stalinist forces took it over.

The Chinese Revolution also succeeded in the aftermath of WW II and the Japanese invasion of China.

So revolutions that start because of economic conditions and then establish a durable egalitarian society are essentially nonexistent.

[Egalitarian Thug]

130. I believe the point is that revolutions are something to generally be avoided, and that

the people most able to make that happen seem to be convinced that the profits in chaos outweigh the risks/consequences to themselves, and further, that they are wrong.

[Zorra]

134. Modern revolutions, and some modern definitions of revolution:

Revolution

a fundamental change in political organization; especially : the overthrow or renunciation of one government or ruler and the substitution of another by the governed

c : activity or movement designed to effect fundamental changes in the socioeconomic situation

d : a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something : a change of paradigm <the Copernican revolution>

Example(s) of successful revolution:

"In the nineteen-sixties, apartheid was driven out of America. Legal segregation — Jim Crow — ended. We didn't end racism, but we ended legal segregation. We ended the idea that you can send a million soldiers ten thousand miles away to fight in a war that people do not support. We ended the idea that women are second-class citizens. Now, it doesn't matter who sits in the Oval Office. But the big battles that were won in that period of civil war and strife you cannot reverse. We were young, we were reckless, arrogant, silly, headstrong ... and we were right! I regret nothing!" ~ Abbie Hoffman

"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit. When all today's isms have become yesterday's ancient philosophy, there will still be reactionaries and there will still be revolutionaries. No amount of rationalization can avoid the moment of choice each of us brings to our situation here on the planet. I still believe in the fundamental injustice of the profit system and do not accept the proposition there will be rich and poor for all eternity." ~ Abbie Hoffman

Occupy Wall Street is a leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

The only solution is WorldRevolution.

Occupy Wall Street allowed those silenced by shame, invisibility or lack of interest from the media to speak up. As a result, the realities behind our particular economic game came to be described more accurately; so much so that the media and politicians had to change their language to adjust to a series of previously ignored realities.

Part of what gave Occupy its particular beauty was the way the movement defined "we" as the 99%. That phrase (along with that contagious meme "the 1%&quot entered our language, offering a far more inclusive way of imagining the world.

The encampments are now gone, but things that were born in them survive: coalitions and alliances and senses of possibility and frameworks for understanding what's wrong and what could be right.

On this, the second anniversary of that day in Lower Manhattan when people first sat down in outrage and then stayed in dedication and solidarity and hope, remember them. Remember how unpredictably the world changes; remember those doing heroic work whom you might hear little about but who are all around you; remember to hope; remember to build; remember that Parisian drummer girl. Remember that you are, most likely, part of the 99%, and take up the burden that is also an invitation to change the world and occupy your dreams.

[Rex]

136. Not if 'quality of life' goes up for everyone in the country.

Which over the past decades has been in a death spiral. It boils down to if the government is scared of being called 'socialists' by the big bogyman M$M and the GOPukers OR continue to go along with 'business as usual' while Wall Street sucks the working class dry of their last penny.

The choice is in the hands of who we elect to represent us in office.

[Boom Sound 416]

140. I used to think so

But then I turned 30.

[1000words]

141. Yes, but if you are over 40 it's unlikely you'll live to see it.

It'll be global, and it's going to take some time.

[Mosaic]

143. We are evolving

And it will continue until we all see how to live with the most fairness for all, call it what you want. It won't look like what we have now, we are still like cave men toiling now in jobs we hate. When we mature, we will do what we love, and survive doing it, and instead of the false objective of 'pursuing' happiness, we will simply be happy every day of our lives.

[GreenStormCloud]

151. Evolution does not have a direction.

Evolution selects for those who leave the most kids who survive to become parents themselves. It does nothing more, nothing less. In terms of evolution the Duggars are select for above a childless couple. Your post shows that you do not understand biology.

[HughBeaumont]

155. Hey, whatever gets rid of the Re-branded Feudalism, I'm all for it.

Because you're damned sure kidding yourself if you still believe this idiotic garbage heap of an economic system is helping anyone but those who don't even come close to needing any kind of help.

[GreenStormCloud]

159. Do you really think you would be happy living through an armed revolution - if you survive? N/T

[HughBeaumont]

163. I said "Whatever gets rid of the Re-branded Feudalism".

That doesn't necessarily mean "Armed and Violent Revolution". But make absolutely no mistake: You need to get RID of Re-branded Feudalism, and you need to get rid of it FAST.

While it's likely a given that in 'Murica (a country where the wealthy and the government have zero reason to fear their workers) a violent revolution would lead to a TheoFascist takeover, you cannot continue with "Capitalism As Is" and expect people to be perfectly OK with it. You cannot. People are getting supremely tired of the excuses of the wealthy and the corporate boards they incestuously slither in and out of as to why an economy on the upswing, an economy that sees an unprecedented skyrocketing in profits, productivity and stock market numbers has an 11-year period of such weak wage and job growth.

And sorry, it all boils down to PAY. It was recently written that 40% of all American workers now make LESS than the inflation adjusted 1968 minimum wage. Y'all are going to sit there and tell me that's FAIR? There are degreed profressionals making less than 30-35k a year. That's criminal. That's THEFT. That's a major break in the social contract. That's pretty much lying to a generation.

You're going to sit there and tell me that this "equitable, fair and prosperous" system that severely undercuts wages and looks for any excuse to move work to cheaper shores is going to somehow survive long-term? You still believe that?? COME on. A linear system that depends on infinite growth, resources, wealth and labor whose architects and executors do everything in their power to limit the access of all four to the producers and consumers that HAVE to keep it going will not succeed if the ability to produce and consume is taken away. You expect people to just be OK with all of that?

I know that these profiteers all have this jack-off-a-thon fantasy of achieving continued profit, growth and wealth without that pesky "additional business", "hiring", "expansion" or "progressive taxation" . . . but it's not happening. You're kidding yourself if you think it is.

[GreenStormCloud]

164. The OP is about violent, armed, killing and being killed, revolution in America.

You said, "Whatever...". That includes violent, armed, killing and being killed revolution. The OP is not about peaceful means. I am pointing out that a violent revolution is a bad thing to live through and rarely ends up well. Pointing out that such a revolution is a bad thing is NOT defending the 1%.