You know for those who celebrate Christmas,
Jesus wasn't even born of December 25th!
= new reply since forum marked as read
Historical elements[edit]
Existence[edit]
Most modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed, and most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.[7][9][10][30][31][32] In antiquity, the existence of Jesus was never denied by those who opposed Christianity.[33][34] There is, however, widespread disagreement among scholars on the details of the life of Jesus mentioned in the gospel narratives, and on the meaning of his teachings.[11] Scholars differ on the historicity of specific episodes described in the Biblical accounts of Jesus,[11] and the only two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[12][13][14]
Robert E. Van Voorst states that the idea of the non-historicity of the existence of Jesus has always been controversial, and has consistently failed to convince virtually all scholars of many disciplines.[30] Geoffrey Blainey notes that a few scholars have argued that Jesus did not exist, but writes that Jesus' life was in fact "astonishingly documented" by the standards of the time - more so than any of his contemporaries - with numerous books, stories and memoirs written about him. The problem for the historian, wrote Blainey, is not therefore, determining whether Jesus actually existed, but rather in considering the "sheer multitude of detail and its inconsistencies and contradictions".[35] Although a very small number of modern scholars argue that Jesus never existed, that view is a distinct minority and virtually all scholars consider theories that Jesus' existence was a Christian invention as implausible.[11][36] This is different to supernatural or miraculous claims about Jesus, which historians tend to look on as questions of faith, rather than historical fact.[37]
The sources for the historicity of Jesus are mainly Christian sources, but there are some mentions also in a few non-Christian Jewish and Greco-Roman sources, which have been used in historical analyses of the existence of Jesus.[38] These include the works of 1st-century Roman historians Josephus and Tacitus.[38][39]
Jesus as myth[edit]
Main article: Christ myth theory
The Christ myth theory (also known as the "Jesus myth theory" or "Jesus mythicism"
is the proposition that Jesus never existed in any form but was invented by the Christian community around 100 CE. The idea was first put forward in the late 18th century and developed and popularised in the 19th century by Bruno Bauer.[40]
A few contemporary writers, notably G. A. Wells, Richard Carrier, Earl Doherty and Robert M. Price[41] still regard the question of whether Jesus ever existed as open. This position is not held by most professional historians, nor the vast majority of New Testament scholars.[9][42][43][44] Richard Dawkins wrote that while Jesus probably existed, it is "possible to mount a serious, though not widely supported, historical case that Jesus never lived at all."[45]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus#Existence
Two seemingly opposing viewpoints, settled amicably in the end.
Time for a group hug: 
. . . 
. . . some of us celebrate His conception--rather than His birth--on December 25th.
When Jesus was born, there were shepherds in the fields watching their flocks at night. Shepherds, in the Middle East at that time, kept their flocks in the fields only from Spring to Fall but not during the Winter months when they sheltered them from the rain and cold---which makes December 25th the unlikely date of His birth. If, however, Jesus was conceived in December, some might celebrate His birth in September during the Feast of Booths.
Most Japanese are considered Shinto Buddhist. Maybe less than 1% of the population are actually Christians. But yet, "Kurisumasu" is celebrated in Japan anyway. That is because there, it is a Romantic holiday, like Valentines Day is here. Gifts are given, couples go out to dinner (Yes KFC, is pushed but hey,they got their claws embedded in the culture there now) and there are the traditional Christmas Cakes;
There are tons of Xmas trees, lights and all the trimmings, but its a holiday that does not involve people taking time off from work.. The biggest Holiday in Japan is New Years! Xmas in Japan is so very different from the United States. Its like a pretty wrapped up christmas gift with nothing inside, like those fake boxes you see under a tree, in a store window.
People there enjoy the holiday, if they have it off. Most people work that day, as any normal day. There is lots of music, celebrations, Christmas Trees and gift giving, especially to small children. But very few look at it as a religious holiday. Its never treated as a religious holiday.
Bill O'Reilly would just hate it! 
Shinto Buddhist, I enjoy their idea of Christmas... but its sure is hard to find someone to share that Kurisumasu Keki with!
Been clean for hours! 
. . .during the shortest daylight time of the year.
What do Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanzaa, Winter Solstice, Saturnalia, etc. all have in common?
Candles, ie. LIGHT
"Newborn Sun" (solstice) . . . . . . . . . . "Newborn Son" (Christmas)
Blame us UU's. . We unleashed Christmas with all it's trappings on America.
Or non stance. 
It's the only philosophy that lets me say "What would Moses do?", Good Friday and Easter are macabre, and believe a human being got married, started to be referred to as Rabbi, died a horrific macabre death, and naturally for his time and stature had a wife and kids. It's okay to believe in his words, reject every single other thing in the "New Testament" and believe not in a ghost - but in the words and example handed down with his birth anytime on earth . . . Regardless of when his birth to two Human beings took place.
And I'm of the mindset he was most likely born in March.
Politics aside you will be hard pressed to find two UUs that believe in the exact same thing outside of no one really knows until we die. . But - when you take the words (including the Gnostics and how they appear there) our "politics" as members are very much in alignment with his words.
I rarely jump into spiritual conversations at DU - but to me Christmas on speed is kind of thumbing our nose at stopping the world for the PDR "celebration". One human being - not a supernatural being with several ancient religions attached to it to make it more palatable for the people of the time.
So we (UUs) brought our European solstice based traditions of lit trees, merriment, food and celebration to America and stong armed America (much as Adams snuck in our philosophy of One God in a sucker punch - deism) into taking a day to be joyful at life and kindness and light - since we are all wonky and weird over the macabre PDR (Easter).
Arius would be quite proud of us - the Syrian Rabbi was murdered as a result of trying to stop the trinitarian imposition of pagan traditions being pegged on an extremely devout Jewish Rabbi - but alas - the Coptics prevailed.
That said as a UU - I will ask the universe to surround and protect Coptics Christians and Muslims in Egypt once again- at Christmas. It's where the split happened and where I'm of the mindset Unitarian's had our first declaration of defiance.
ETA - we made up for it (Christmas - reminding Christians that THEIR founders put all the Pagan/Earth Based Trappings on Christmas) by giving America non Sect Public Education. Look up Horace Mann. A man of his time who had to work within the framework of ignorance in the 1800's but his Unitarian personal cause was Public Education. Mine is feeding the hungry. And I LIVE it.
Because I know what the bunnies and eggs actually represent.
some scholars have said he was born in the summer, closer to mid july. I dont remember why at the moment. Oh well the Queen wasnt born on her 'official' birthday either....
No nativity scenes. I'm a UU secular humanist who studies Buddhism.
So what's the big deal? I love to cook at Turkey Day and Christmas. Unfortunately I have very few family to celebrate with.
