Bill Maher to righties: Do you want small government with few handouts or

[muntrv]

low wages?

[Cali_Democrat]

1. Bill Maher nails it

once again.

[NastyRiffraff]

2. The problem is...

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2013, 11:01 AM - Edit history (1)

The right doesn't think that Uncle Sam (or anyone else) has to help the lady behind the counter, even if she is starving. The Ayn Rand bunch not only doesn't believe that government should have a safety net, but per their heroine, any kind of charity, public or private is bad.

They don't believe in evolution, but they believe in social Darwinism.

[aquart]

5. Ayn Rand survived on her Social Security but why confuse the issue?

[Jamaal510]

9. "Do as I say, not as I do." eom

[Zeke L Brimstone]

15. I wonder how many Aynal-Retentives even know that...

[ehrnst]

17. Ayn Rand was doing what she did best - grabbing what she could, and felt entitled to.

It makes perfect sense - she felt like *she* was valuable enough to get the handout, but didn't want to have to explain herself to any acolytes...

[jtuck004]

14. Neither does the so-called left, else we would be going in a different direction n/t

[SchmerzImArsch]

26. Don't confuse liberals with today's Democratic Party.

Liberals want high wages AND a strong safety net.

[rhett o rick]

31. Interesting post. Since it was a bit critic, I am going to make some assumptions.

If the "so-called left" are the Conserva-Dems that some times say they are on the left, then I would agree with you because they are not too much different than the Right. And since the Con-Dems are in power, they certainly dont seem too excited to change the direction of the country.

But I doubt that you were referring to the Con-Dems when you said "the so-called left". I heard derision. So I am wondering if you mean the liberal left (and called them "so-called" to disparage them) and you are trying to blame them for the state of the country, which is absurd.

Now I may have totally misunderstood, it happens to me often, and if so please straighten me out.

[jtuck004]

36. "...Conserva-Dems that some times say they are on the left"<----------- them.

I think the others, perhaps those who today's "Reagan Democrats" left behind, are too few in number, and too, ummm, not afraid, exactly. More like unwilling to recognize what is in front of their face, that their cheese really is gone, that you will not change those people, that it's time to look for another solution. That unwillingness to see the need for change is such a common human behavior we have whole books about it.

I don't know what to think about the few, and I don't mean to sound derisive even though I sometimes think they need to grow a spine - it's much more than that. One has to have compassion for the fear which is necessarily a part of walking away from apparent security. Even if you know, deep down, the security is an illusion, as we go about destroying what little so many people have in the name of keeping the assets of the wealthy inflated, destroying the planet, destroying each other. Even if it means you won't be on a winning team for a long, long time. And that you might die. But it is imperative if one wants to be free. de la Boetie said " I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." It's just that sometimes I think people forget that identifying the real, most insidious "tyrants" may be as simple as listening for who is is telling you how you should think, talking so loudly they muffle what your heart is telling you.

It doesn't mean going to another party, necessarily, but it could mean letting an election go rather than help further the very things you know are hurting people, in the name of winning. People tell me that's wrong thinking, and when they do I remember this quote, attributed to Adolph Hitler:

"It is not truth that matters, but victory."

I think he's got some great company today.

We straight?

[rhett o rick]

37. So once again I was wrong. I did misread your post and I apologize. We are "straight".

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[jtuck004]

38. I'm wrong. A lot. Turns out, however,

sun still comes up the next day, and I learn things. Though perhaps not what some think I learn.

[ehrnst]

18. They always misquote Darwin. He said that the most adaptable would survive.

Hence the dinosaurs - if you define fittest as the biggest, loudest and fiercest, then you don't get it.

Rand acolytes always think that they are the 'fittest,' and try to hoover up everything they can.

What they don't understand is that adaptability, and the ability to work as a community is the key to not only surviving, but living.

[Ikonoklast]

29. Bacteria are the most successful organisms in all of Nature.

Social Darwinists are complete frauds.

[rhett o rick]

32. I think Ms. Rand's mental illness invoked ideology attracts others with the same illness.

Capitalistic greed. Any justification will do. She knew nothing about human nature and nothing about nature. Those species that act like she preached, go extinct quickly.

[We People]

35. A post deserving of its own rec

Very astute observations about Rand and her philosophy. It IS sick - an egocentric excuse for "objectifying" (i.e., viewing as objects, with contempt) those in difficult and undeserved circumstances.

Definitely a fraudulent philosophy whose time should have come and gone much longer ago. It still exists to the detriment of humanity and the planet, and should be thoroughly exposed as such. Whoever discovers how to do that should win the Nobel Peace Prize.

[freebrew]

23. And yet...

most of them(working poor) have guns!!??!!

What are the rich thinking?
Maybe that when the shooting starts they'll be safe in another country?

Maybe they're just rich and stupid?

Forgot history?

[rickyhall]

25. What do you think the NSA is for?

[rhett o rick]

33. Your post reminds my of Crocodile Dundee. When the working poor pull out their gun

the ruling class will simply say, "You call that a gun mate? Now this is a gun, mate." And proceed to pull out their Blackwater.

What history are you referring to, that they forgot?

[freebrew]

39. *gun* is rhetorical..

it could mean pitchforks, knives, IEDs.

History?

France 1770's remember "let them eat cake?"

Russia 1917

How about the US 1776

Have you ever read Jefferson's Declaration?

As far as taking on the gov't or Blackwater, the folks in Iraq and Afghanistan are doing pretty well with fewer weapons.

[rhett o rick]

42. I understand your use of rhetoric. But whatever your "guns" mean, my "Blackwater"

means 100 times more. Our government can end all of our communications, stop all movement of money, stop all delivery of groceries, etc. It doesnt necessarily mean fire power.

Your example of Afghanistan as "doing pretty well" is some thing to look at. The rebels are living in caves and have been for generations. Killing children in schools isnt doing "pretty well". Your army USofA rebels arent adept at living without their Beef Jerky, Lite Lite Beer, and Walmarts.

Iraq is a horrible example. A hundred thousand dead children and 5 million people displaced. They aint doing well at all. And all for what? Did they gain freedom and liberty?

So lets look at history. The United States war of independence wasnt a real "revolution". We did not overthrow the government of England. It was more of a war of secession aided by France and a very large ocean.

I do remember "let them eat cake" and the French Revolution where an aristocratic government was overthrown and replaced with a dictatorship. Not a success for freedom and liberty.

And the same goes with Russia. Again, not a victory for freedom and liberty.

It may be romantic to think that a rough tough American male with his gigantus pickup and AR-15 can take on the government. But it's nonsense. Ask Randy Weaver, David Korhesh, or Timothy McVeigh.

What I find disheartening is that those rough tough would be fighters for freedom with their big pickups and guns, spit on the Occupy protesters that are actually doing something and not crouched in their grandmothers basement in the dark stroking their AK-47's.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. Except when they are the recipient of said safety net. Then it's all good.

THEY EARNED IT!

[libdem4life]

3. Logic. In short supply when knuckledragging.

[Snake Plissken]

4. If I can live within my means at $7 Billion/year then those takers should be able to live on $7.5/hr

The crowd of shit of brains tea baggers goes wild and gives David Koch a standing ovation as he leaves the podium

[ErikJ]

6. Walmart

[daleanime]

7. +1

[WCGreen]

12. That's just makes me sick....

And the fuckers don't even pay all sorts of taxes...

[L0oniX]

22. The IRS should send them a bill for $2.66 billion.

[Initech]

8. Yeah let's get rid of corporate welfare!

[Uncle Joe]

10. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, muntrv.

[BlueStreak]

11. We need to take it to the next step

Follow on from the law that California passed. When companies don't pay a living wage, then fine them for the cost of SNAP. Fine them for the cost of Medicaid. etc.

If every business had to pay for its part of the problem, then no business would gain an advantage and no business would lose an advantage. And if this takes people off public assistance, then the overall effect would not be inflationary because our cost of government would go down.

Republicans love to talk about personal responsibility. Fair enough. Same thing applies to businesses. If they pollute, fine them for the total cost of that pollution on society. That is the only way an unregulated free market system can actually produce the best outcome for society.

[nyquil_man]

13. Wal Mart made $14 billion from food stamps last year.

Conservatives are so obsessed with screwing the poor that they don't even care that those welfare benefits wind up in the hands of the corporations, the "job creators" they worship so compulsively.

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. Those one pay check away from the poor house 'conservatives' aren't aware of the handouts

to the corporations being given at the expense of their labor.

Even if they knew, they wouldn't believe it.......just a bunch of lies from libtards who hate America and want full blown socialism....

[patricia92243]

16. Both - for other people - not themselves. Lack of empathy is THE leading personality trait of Pubs.

[bullwinkle428]

19. K&R for a fantastic point, but you know that wing-nuts will

reply by saying something like "those worker bees need to start managing their money better so they don't have to rely on 'Uncle Sucker' to pay for their big-screen TVs and air-conditioning!!1!"

[FarCenter]

20. Wonder how the SeaTac $15 / hour minimum wage will work out

Of course, the businesses in the Seattle Tacoma airport have a captive audience so they can pass the expense along. But there are a lot of hotels and restaurants just outside the airport along International Boulevard. Should be an interesting test case.

SeaTac minimum wage measure passing

SEATTLE - SeaTac is center stage in a national push for a $15 minimum wage.

In election returns released Tuesday night, voters were approving the measure, 54 percent to 46 percent.

Residents of the city south of Seattle will finally having their say on Tuesday following a costly initiative campaign in which the two sides combined to spend $1.8 million -- enough money to hire every registered voter in the city for a day at $15 per hour.

The proposal would require a $15 minimum wage for many workers in and around Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. It follows a series of rallies in which fast food workers and others around the country called attention to their struggle to earn a living.

Groups outside of Washington state will be watching the results. National labor unions have contributed to support the effort while national business organizations have contributed in opposition.

http://www.king5.com/news/politics/SeaTac-minimum-wage-vote-may-set-national-tone-230752151.html

[mountain grammy]

21. Union hating, not working so well for average Americans...

[L0oniX]

24. If I watch Bill Maher then I am subsidizing him.

I wonder if he sees to it that his fellow workers get paid a living wage. Well he is not a huge multi billion dollar corporation. When I shop art Walmart I look into the eyes of the worker who needs food stamps to survive ...food stamps that some of my taxes pay for. So they are they my employee? Subsidizing corporations is hurting the American people ...50 million poor. Think that figure is small? I wonder how much of that figure is the working poor.

[Laelth]

27. k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t

-Laelth

[Arugula Latte]

28. Their answer would be: "Let them starve, unless it applies to me or my immediate circle."

[Locrian]

30. yep

I was going to post that graphic on my FB, but thought the same thing. They would just say 'lazy people don't deserve charity'.

[mehrrh]

34. Maher is right again

Exactly!
Either pay employees a living wage or increase what you pay the government to subsidize them. Either pay them a living wage, or the government will have to grow to do what you don't.
We cannot have working people unable to pay rent or buy enough food to eat.