General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAlcohol Is Really Pissed Off at Marijuana Right Now
Marijuana has been giving alcohol a bad name. So contend booze lobbyists, who are getting sick of an ad campaign that makes the claim that pot is safer than their beloved beverages.
"We're not against legalization of marijuana, we just don't want to be vilified in the process," said one alcohol industry representative who didn't want to be quoted harshing his colleagues mellow. "We don't want alcohol to be thrown under the bus, and we're going to fight to defend our industry when we are demonized."
The marijuana industry has had a good couple of years: a recent poll found that 58 percent of the country thinks the product should be legal, recreational use has been legalized in two states already, and this past election saw the city of Portland, Maine, legalize 2.5 ounces of pot. Ahead of the vote in Portlandwhich received 70 percent supportthe Marijuana Policy Project put up signs around the city with messages like "I prefer marijuana over alcohol because it doesn't make me rowdy or reckless," and "I prefer marijuana over alcohol because it's less harmful to my body."
Alcohol lobbyists believe it's a "red herring" to compare the two. "We believe it's misleading to compare marijuana to beer," said Chris Thorne of the Beer Institute. "Beer is distinctly different both as a product and an industry."
Thorne notes that the alcohol industry is regulated, studied extensively, and perhaps more importantly already an accepted part of the culture.
"Factually speaking beer has been a welcome part of American life for a long time," he said. "The vast majority drink responsibly, so having caricatures won't really influence people."
But MPP takes issue with the idea they are painting a false picture. In a recent Op-Ed for CNN, Dan Riffle, the group's director of federal policies, notes that according to the Centers for Disease Control excessive alcohol use is the third leading lifestyle-related cause of death. Booze also "plays a role in a third of all emergency room visits," he says
http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/alcohol-is-really-pissed-off-at-marijuana-right-now-20131107
JVS
(61,935 posts)it's going to help get Marijuana legalized and publicly accepted. It won't help and it's only going to make things easy for MADD and other neo-temperance groups.
JVS
(61,935 posts)a rule that we NEVER say a bad thing about ANY drug because it only helps the enemy.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)it scared me off of trying it... doesn't it give you a short lived, extremely heavy trip, sort of like DMT?
JVS
(61,935 posts)And by knock you on your ass, I mean that it provides deep and meaningful insights into the universe and is extremely fun. I tried it when some friends had some that really wasn't working out for them. I went to their house, and took a couple of puffs on a hitter of it. As one person moved on the other side of the room I watched them and instead of it looking like they were moving past the background, it looked like the background was forming little bubbles when they bumped into it and then flowing around them where it reassembled itself. At this point I began laughing and thought that I'd better take a seat. Then for the next 2 or 3 minutes I was laughing uncontrollably, couldn't tell if I was sitting or standing, and holding on to the armrest of the sofa because it felt like there was a force sucking me into the dark side of the room. After the few minutes I was right as rain.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)i'm like wtf? this guy is nuts.
when I saw him a half hour later and he was normal, he was tryingto explain what he saw... he described it as viewing the world as pages in a book, and as he would move around, his vision would update by flipping to the next page in the book.. as everything he saw was in pages... I was like damn... I've done shrooms, lsd, and mescaline, and never experienced anything like that!
Kurska
(5,739 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)But I always thought it was fun.
Mr.Bill
(24,292 posts)to share with all the kids?
AAO
(3,300 posts)I knew that I had been part of that road for decades and would be for more decades - shit here comes a car.
It only lasted a minute or so, but it can seem like time doesn't exist, and you've been here for a million years.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)Essentially, Salvia is a dissociative with a heavily dysphoric streak to it. DMT is a psychedelic renowned for it's ability to produce life changing personal introspection.
They are very similar in terms of trip length and intensity, but their mechanism of action and practical effects couldn't be more different.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)for some reason those two scare me. must be getting old...
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)We both felt like there were others holding us down and basically telling us our existence was being erased and our world was crumbling around us and we just wanted to get away, the camera died before we actually fully came to our senses, neither one of us remember any of our behaivor that was recorded..by the way, thats a 2nd story window..
MagickMuffin
(15,942 posts)At least when I have experienced it, we took turns. Perhaps that guy wouldn't have jumped from a two story window, if someone else would have been straight, to deal with the situation.
Hopefully that is a lesson they learned, or at least I certainly hope they did!
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Then it was if the gates of hades had opened.
MagickMuffin
(15,942 posts)You never know what might happen during those 3-4 minutes. That guy could have seriously injured himself. I'm glad he didn't seem injured, however, that could have turned into an ugly mess.
JVS
(61,935 posts)MagickMuffin
(15,942 posts)I still stand by my claims that there should always be a watcher to make sure no one does anything stupid.
Ummm, no there's a bunch of evil, vile man-made concoctions out there that should not exist and the dealers should be locked up for a very long time.
EXTREMELY GRAPHIC IMAGES!!! OPEN AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=df0_1356669322&comments=1
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Considering the argument for keeping cannabis illegal is because it's harmful, an evaluation of that harm in context of other widely used substances is appropriate.
I wouldn't be too worried about losing your beloved ethyl alcohol drug with flavoring.
JVS
(61,935 posts)Booze and pot belong together like peanut butter and jelly.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Same reason heroin and cabbage don't belong together.
Bandit
(21,475 posts)Since you think that Mothers Against Drunk Driving are a neo-temperance group. Alchohol is known for causing much harm. I don't see how anyone could deny that..
JVS
(61,935 posts)But they're always eager to cut the legal BAC. They're just a new version of WCTU.
JVS
(61,935 posts)I'm not alone in that, btw. MADD's founder says it herself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_Lightner
CO & WA is just the beginning.
You can like both but of those two substances one is safer than the other.
Over at the stadium there's a billboard urging the NFL to lift the ban on players and weed. Sad when you're employer is more than happy to throw alcohol in your face but will toss you out for opting for the safer of the two.
I'll keep you posted on MADD after our law becomes a reality on 1/1/14.
Rex
(65,616 posts)and stabbed outside the bar on MJ. It is ALWAYS some drunks...
... while my toking days are over, I think the pro-marijuana message should be "we want to be like alcohol!. Taxed, regulated and legal."
msongs
(67,405 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)play video games. but so many people, put a couple of drinks in them, they'll get abusive or violent, start picking fights, or decide to drive 100mph and wrap their car around a tree. I don't get it. it's like for some people they become a totally different person...
JVS
(61,935 posts)drinks that they can blame the liquor.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)car, i'm driving the speed limit and paying attention to everything so nothing bad happens, not hauling ass like a fool down the road.
some people change completely when drunk, I never could understand it...
Wounded Bear
(58,656 posts)are suppressing something when they're sober. YMMV.
MagickMuffin
(15,942 posts)others can't. I believe it's connected to how we are wired. Some people are happy go lucky drunks, others become violent, or destructive.
Then there are those who once they start drinking cannot stop.
I drank more as a kid and as a social thing. Then I quit, just because I didn't like losing control of my facilities. But I do to smoke, eat the Cannabis
dionysus
(26,467 posts)that way. my supplies last a looooooong time
CFLDem
(2,083 posts)I really wish I could be a mellow, friendly, drunk, but something about it makes me feel invincible and act really obnoxious.
I have a super quick metabolism, so it doesn't take much for me to go over the edge and wake up to a lot of regrets. So I don't drink socially.
That's why I'm especially excited about pot legalization because it finally presents an alternative to those of us who can't handle alcohol.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)According to Thomas Nash in 1592, there were eight classes of Elizabethan Drunkards
The first is ape drunke; and he leapes, and singes, and hollowes, and danceth for the heavens;
The second is lion drunke; and he flings the pots about the house, calls his hostesse whore, breakes the glasse windowes with his dagger, and is apt to quarrell with anie man that speaks to him;
The third is swine drunke; heavie, lumpish, and sleepie, and cries for a little more drinke, and a fewe more cloathes;
The fourth is sheepe drunk; wise in his conceipt, when he cannot bring foorth a right word;
The fifth is mawdlen drunke; when a fellowe will weepe for kindnes in the midst of ale, and kisse you, saying, By God, captaine, I love thee. Goe thy wayes; thou dost not thinke so often of me as I doo thee; I would (if it pleased God) I could not love thee as well as I doo; and then he puts his finger in his eye, and cryes;
The sixt is Martin drunke; when a man is drunke, and drinkes himselfe sober ere he stirre;
The seventh is goate drunke; when, in his drunkennes, he hath no minde but on lecherie;
The eighth is fox drunkewhen he is craftie drunke, as manie of the Dutchmen bee, that will never bargaine but when they are drunke.
So there you go....
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)phantom power
(25,966 posts)Humans have been making ethanol for thousands of years. We've also been growing pot for thousands of years. For better or worse (and plenty of data suggests "better" , we've been co-evolving with these drugs, both physically and culturally, for a long time now.
The alcohol industry is in no danger from pot.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)The big worry is that people will re-evaluate regulations for alcohol which could see alcohol banned at sporting events and other places where the consumption of alcohol could lead to death or injury.
Problems with alcohol are growing..
Drunken brawls between fans is seemingly a more common occurrence with people literally getting murdered going out to the ball game.
Events like halloween in the castro get cancelled because of drunken mobs. Maybe they should ban the drunks and not the event.
Cities like San Francisco pay millions treating chronically drunk people who end up in the ER.
The medical costs alone will force booze under the microscope, more regulation and taxation.
tridim
(45,358 posts)I agree with the "Alcohol lobbyists" that it is misleading to compare cannabis to alcohol, because one is completely non-toxic and the other is a deadly poison.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)We get it, you like to get fucked up more than the rest of us. Not sure why you think that is appropriate to post on DU.
JVS
(61,935 posts)Beer is good.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Water is better.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)How many fucking years have I heard the perils of pot. And how many good jobs did I miss out because I smoke pot, but the alcoholic who applies only has to worry about not being drunk when going to an interview and drug test. I truly hope legal MJ puts a BIG dent in alcohol. It's about time.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)One day we'll live free and no longer in fear.
Fear of losing jobs, fear of being raided, your dogs shot, your children kidnapped by the state.
Your land stolen, and maybe even your life lost. Fear no more, the times are a changing.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)JoeyT
(6,785 posts)The jobs I work drug test regularly, so no pot. But there are plenty of people that are drunk when they get to work, drunk the better part of the day, nasty as fuck to everyone for the last four or five hours, and start drinking again on the way home. They literally overfill the lot of the nearest gas station piling in to buy enough beer to get them home. (Or the nearest package store for enough liquor. I once knew a guy that drank over half a fifth of Jack Daniels driving home every day on an 1 1/2 hour drive.)
But no pot! Cause you know, the person that smoked a joint last week at home long before the job started might be reckless on the job or endanger people around them.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)I'll toke to that.
psst. someone tell Obama.
Bennyboy
(10,440 posts)I smoke weed all day everyday, morning to night. Edibles, tinctures, vapes, you name it.
I also love to drink and always have. Now I restrict my drinking to craft brews only due to some bad Mojo I have collected through vodka.
One thing I notice on cannabis, especially with edibles, is that I can drink way more without being "drunk". really it helps a lot (So does meth, ecstasy and coke for that matter) Now that doesn't mean if you are stinking drunk and someone gives you an edible that you will sober up... but if do it before you start you can drink a lot more than if you didn't.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)From past experience, I never liked to drink with weed. The mix wasn't a good thing for me. I much prefer to enjoy each by itself.
I'm curious how long you've been smoking every day all day, and how it impacts your daily living.
Bennyboy
(10,440 posts)14 perhaps? 58 now. every aspect of cannabis I have been part of. I've grown large and small (personal only) sold it in various methods and venues including being a member of CA dispensaries (which are Co-Ops)...., I've been busted, had the cops let me go, all of it. There is no cannabis experience you can have that I have not had including caregiving for patients who use cannabis as part of their everyday.
I mostly vape now, I have a couple of portables and a couple of table top models. But in the morning, when I get up, I love the tactile feeling of the joint. I love passing the joint the communal feeling you get from that.
And outside of it's criminality,( A home invasion robbery over pot and a couple of friends murdered over pot) it has never affected me much that way. I've worked, rose up the ranks, managed companies, owned companies, been a stellar salesperson, drove a car and all that for years without anything happening. I tell people that every bad decisions I've ever made I made straight or drunk and the only bad decision I've made when High was to see KISS.... Without the makeup.......
I did once experience a period where too much, in an edible, would really give me anxiety, but that was not long after my whole world started to crash down on me, and now a high dose does not affect me like that. I also created a method for edibles that is now a standard in measuring dosage among the industry (at least a good part of it) because of the anxiety thing, one of anything should not flip you out....
Avalux
(35,015 posts)You've got quite a story there. Do you mind me asking about your physical health? I fully agree with legalization, and I've had many conversations about weed with my kids. The problem is that it's illegal and we live in Texas, so I've tried to be honest with them about my views, but at the same time, make sure they understand the consequences of using it.
RobinA
(9,893 posts)that you grow immune to it when you use that heavily? Back in the day I always felt that more than once a day ended up to be kind of a waste when it came to daily use.
Bennyboy
(10,440 posts)I am not a guy who puffs all day long, I get high and then get high a few hours later rather than puffing constantly. True you never do get the same high as your morning buzz later in the day, but that is nothing really. I don't smoke much in the evenings when i am home though. When out that is another thing altogether.... I do edibles for music events, the high is deeper and really goes well with the music.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)And our traitor legislators will probably allow it to happen. One of the promises made before I502 was passed was that it would have nothing to do with medical marijuana. There is already a law in WA that regulates medical marijuana but because the recreational industry wants to take market share away from the medical industry and because legislators want the tax money that would come with forcing patients to get their medicine from a recreational shop I502 may demolish the medical marijuana industry here in WA. One thing they will never stop though no matter how hard they try is home grows. The federal government hasn't been able to stop home grows. I don't know why the state thinks they will be any more successful.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)elleng
(130,908 posts)I'll do some tests tonight!!!
Arkana
(24,347 posts)"I smoke the ganja!" :haw:
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)I love beer, but the alcohol lobbyists can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned. Alcohol is far more dangerous than pot.
DissidentVoice
(813 posts)kydo
(2,679 posts)Marijuana says Alcohol thinks its all privileged just because its legal and often looks down on pot.
Alcohol's retort was a mumbled ramble which was later transcribed as "Ah shut the fuck up weed before I stomp on your head."
The interview was cut short because Alcohol became ill and threw up before passing out on the floor.
After a quick run to the 7/11 for Doritos and pie Marijuana had this to say about Alcohol, "Dude, I got food. Want some? Hey why is Alcohol on the floor. Eh whatever I'm tired think I will go eat this food and watch TV."
More once Alcohol wakes up .....
B Calm
(28,762 posts)for the majority of people in the US!
kydo
(2,679 posts)they all lose money if it is legal. And it was made illegal because of race. Should never have been illegal in the first place. The first Bush owes is life to hemp, his parachute was made from the stuff. I'm for legalization big time have been since 1980.
grahampuba
(169 posts)well..
The alcohol industry, after nearly a century of demonizing, campaigning against, funding a war against, spreading misinformation and downright lies about the effects of cannabis,
does not like how marijuana advocates are portraying them.
just let that sink in for a second.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)Like most gun owners are responsible, most drinkers are responsible and not a problem.
However, there are enough irresponsible drinkers that there is a huge societal burden and cost from alcoholics, drunk drivers, abusive parents, lost productivity, greater health care costs due to chronic diseases, greater health care costs due to 'accidents', and a great deal of misery. Similar to the huge societal burden and costs generated by irresponsible gun owners.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Pot and beer are BFFs, to me at least.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)However, back in the days when I did one, I usually did the other at the same time.
It made for a nice combo.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)Die from alcohol than from pot, so really, alcohol can kiss my ass
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"dude. Fucking relax."
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"I think I won. Yep, pretty sure I won"