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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 05:50 PM Dec 2013

Wall Street Journal Op-Ed Bemoans The End Of White Rule In The United States

Wall Street Journal Op-Ed Bemoans The End Of White Rule In The United States

By Adam Peck

<...>

In Saturday’s paper and online, author Joseph Epstein mourns the collapse of what he describes as the “genuine ruling class, drawn from what came to be known as the WASP establishment,” (WASP, the commonly-held acronym for White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant). Instead, he argues, we are living in a meritocracy, governed not by an elite subset of the uppermost crust of society but rather by a group of people who overcame some kind of adversity and achieved success thanks to their own merits, not based on what family they were born into. This, according to Epstein, is a tragedy.

Epstein’s embrace of white privilege (or is it power?) is almost too transparent, resembling something closer to satire than to outright racism. And yet he gives no reason to believe that he isn’t completely serious when he argues that modern day “corruption, scandal and incompetence” are hallmarks exclusive to this new era of non-white rule. Or when he memorializes the virtues of keeping those not born into the “WASPocracy” away from the halls of power. Or when he faults the leadership of the country’s top colleges for its role in ending white rule by “lessening the number of legacies automatically admitted, and using racial preferences to encourage the enrollment of blacks.”

Instead, Epstein argues, we should return to an era of WASP rule. Why? Because rich, white men born into rich, white christian families would never lead the country astray:

A financier I know who grew up under the WASP standard not long ago told me that he thought that the subprime real estate collapse and the continuing hedge-fund scandals have been brought on directly by men and women who are little more than “greedy pigs” (his words) without a shred of character or concern for their clients or country. Naturally, he added, they all have master’s degrees from the putatively best business schools in the nation.

Thus far in their history, meritocrats, those earnest good students, appear to be about little more than getting on, getting ahead and (above all) getting their own. The WASP leadership, for all that may be said in criticism of it, was better than that.

Epstein’s contempt for minorities — namely, that they don’t belong anywhere near positions of authority — isn’t reserved simply for race. Back in the 1970s, Epstein penned a story for Harper’s Magazine in which he expressed his desire to “wish homosexuality off the face of this earth.” He added, of his four sons, “nothing they could ever do would make me sadder than if any of them were to become homosexual.” Those comments led to sit-ins and protests outside of Harper’s offices, and Epstein has never apologized (and in fact dismissed his critics, some 30 years later, as simply incapable of understanding his own “textured thought”).

- more -

http://thinkprogress.org/home/2013/12/21/3098361/wall-street-journal-bemoans-end-white-rule-united-states/


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Wall Street Journal Op-Ed Bemoans The End Of White Rule In The United States (Original Post) ProSense Dec 2013 OP
wow grasswire Dec 2013 #1
+1 Liberal_in_LA Dec 2013 #5
"Wall St Journal Op-Ed" says it all. silverweb Dec 2013 #2
That is idiotic bhikkhu Dec 2013 #3
It shows the depths the WSJ op-ed page has sunk to muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #4
And live in the White House, would be MY bet. Volaris Dec 2013 #29
And yet right here on DU, you will see innumerable posts tblue37 Dec 2013 #55
There Is A Difference erpowers Dec 2013 #67
tblue37 points out the strength and weakness of political forums in a single statement Android3.14 Dec 2013 #72
I don't think it's all that serious when someone says that treestar Dec 2013 #77
peeling jaw up from floor.. 2banon Dec 2013 #14
That's not the argument Epstien is making. pscot Dec 2013 #61
I think the next twenty years are going to be interesting. Baitball Blogger Dec 2013 #6
Agreed - just a different set of scumballs. polichick Dec 2013 #57
Are not Teabaggers mostly WASP? He must not have noticed them. As one who is a born WASP myself... freshwest Dec 2013 #7
I don't think most Teabaggers are "true WASPs" caraher Dec 2013 #24
But there is a world of difference between a mere WASP and a member of the WASP *elite*-- tblue37 Dec 2013 #56
You ask a good question.. whathehell Dec 2013 #79
He ain't the only one pining for the Good Old Days, is he? Number23 Dec 2013 #8
The WSJ editorial page, confirming its port-a-potty status. marmar Dec 2013 #9
jerk weissmam Dec 2013 #10
Ah yes, Joseph Epstein tomg Dec 2013 #11
Why does a guy with a last name like Epstein want America to be ruled by Rozlee Dec 2013 #12
Privilege envy nt MrScorpio Dec 2013 #13
Maybe he's not interested .... oldhippie Dec 2013 #18
"the sting of envy for WASPocracy" Laughing Mirror Dec 2013 #19
It's sad that something like that can get published today gollygee Dec 2013 #15
It was not an op-ed. former9thward Dec 2013 #16
An op-ed ProSense Dec 2013 #20
Op-Eds are published opposite the editorial page. former9thward Dec 2013 #22
Right, but it's still not the "position" of the paper. ProSense Dec 2013 #23
We agree! former9thward Dec 2013 #28
Having worked at a newspaper, OP-ED is the position of the paper. It's what clarifies the definition Hestia Dec 2013 #42
Whether or not the piece was an Op-Ed, someone at the WSJ felt it was worth publishing Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #43
I think Epstein's being mischaracterized paulkienitz Dec 2013 #17
I don't think he is, and ProSense Dec 2013 #21
I won't disagree with that part paulkienitz Dec 2013 #33
"His view of the WASPy past is indeed delusional..." ProSense Dec 2013 #50
Perfectly stated. nt Demo_Chris Dec 2013 #71
Idiotic nevertheless bhikkhu Dec 2013 #25
you are misreading him paulkienitz Dec 2013 #32
You'll need a lot more than conveniently anecdotal bullshit to back this up... Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #34
Without the rose-tinted nostalgia, the meaning is even less bhikkhu Dec 2013 #35
I agree with you, as I read the original essay by Epstein. kwassa Dec 2013 #38
Why limit yourself to the last generation? Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #44
paulkienitz Diclotican Dec 2013 #58
That sounds very much like justification for the reprehensible, because unprovable idea you Todays_Illusion Dec 2013 #85
In a time of plutocracy, he bemoans the supposed decline of the aristocracy. enki23 Dec 2013 #26
It's revolting to us, but from their view it's an utterly logical action on their part Populist_Prole Dec 2013 #27
eh, screw the WSJ chungking34 Dec 2013 #30
More likely related to rise of repuke predator class that cheats & steals whenever it can on point Dec 2013 #31
I've read better fantasy MFrohike Dec 2013 #36
I read the original Epstein essay in the WSJ, and this OP is completely wrong. kwassa Dec 2013 #37
hogswallop brindis_desala Dec 2013 #39
Read the essay, and then make a remotely informed response. kwassa Dec 2013 #40
Agree. I read the entire thing and it's a historical piece - TBF Dec 2013 #45
I read it and... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #47
No ProSense Dec 2013 #48
Meh. Delusional or not, it's still... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #49
Really? ProSense Dec 2013 #51
Just killing time-- ignored lots of other silly threads so far today... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #53
This is ProSense Dec 2013 #54
You're just killing time, but there really is something to learn here bhikkhu Dec 2013 #65
Epstein along with most of you DUers are wrong! cprise Dec 2013 #41
If you bothered to read the piece, you would see you are wrong about it. TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #46
mistake Locrian Dec 2013 #52
The decline of while rule can be explained with just two words rocktivity Dec 2013 #59
I don't think you and the U.S. capitalists agree on the definition of free market. Todays_Illusion Dec 2013 #86
I get the WSJ at home and read that. YUCK! The author wasn't even very convincing. Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #60
Wonder how he explains away the United Fruit debacle in Latin America? mbperrin Dec 2013 #62
Reagan was seen as new money by the patriarchs. alfredo Dec 2013 #63
So, seriously... drynberg Dec 2013 #64
This has to be a put on; WASP =White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant Botany Dec 2013 #66
Except for about 30 years SCVDem Dec 2013 #68
I would rather... nikto Dec 2013 #69
wasn't this the same ed board that called people too poor to pay taxes lucky duckies? nt arely staircase Dec 2013 #70
I recommend studying the "enclosure" movement, England, 17th-19th centuries... Peace Patriot Dec 2013 #73
Someone named Epstein is in favor of WASP rule? wryter2000 Dec 2013 #74
Isn't Epstein a member of a minority group? merrily Dec 2013 #75
TThe journal was always conservative, but since Murdock has taken over it has. become more so lostincalifornia Dec 2013 #76
The GOP is the party of Whites only Gothmog Dec 2013 #78
I certainly agree that being governed by a bunch of first generation greedheads truebluegreen Dec 2013 #80
from the people who gave us this arely staircase Dec 2013 #81
Now we know El Shaman Dec 2013 #82
The WSJ is about as trustworthy as... Hubert Flottz Dec 2013 #83
My head is still spinning from days ago and I first read this, Merry Christmas to America. I had to Todays_Illusion Dec 2013 #84
Joe, No Matter How Much You Want to Be Wolf Frankula Jan 2014 #87

silverweb

(16,402 posts)
2. "Wall St Journal Op-Ed" says it all.
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 06:06 PM
Dec 2013

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Of, by, and for the 1%, fully deserving of a succinct response.

bhikkhu

(10,716 posts)
3. That is idiotic
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 06:12 PM
Dec 2013

First, to imagine that white privilege no longer exists in government, business or finance.

Second, and even more idiotic, to imagine that "corruption, scandal and incompetence" are caused by non-whites being allowed into power.

Its not even worth arguing, that's the kind of thing I would just blink twice and walk away if it was said to my face. It boggles the mind that someone could be so blind as to think so, and yet still possessing enough of a mind as to write in complete sentences.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,316 posts)
4. It shows the depths the WSJ op-ed page has sunk to
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 06:36 PM
Dec 2013

It's not just him; more than one person must have read that over and thought "this is worth publishing". It's like a far more exclusionary version of Romney's 47% speech.

WASPs were a caste, closed off to all not born within it, with the possible exception of those who crashed the barriers by marrying in. WASP credentials came with lineage, and lineage—that is, proper birth—automatically brought connections to the right institutions.


"Proper birth"? This is basically eugenics. It's like asking for a hereditary House of Lords to replace the Senate. And to have them run the banks for good measure.

tblue37

(65,343 posts)
55. And yet right here on DU, you will see innumerable posts
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 01:05 PM
Dec 2013

gleefully, worshipfully urging the idea that Chelsea Clinton or some new Kennedy scion, or Malia and Sascha should eventually be the Dem candidates for POTUS and VP.

There is something in human nature, it seems, that longs to be ruled by hereditary monarchs and a hereditary aristocracy. The only way to resist that seemingly instinctual impulse is to freaking think, to allow one's rational faculty to enter into the analysis.

That's why whenever I see such a post here I squawk loudly. In some ways those posts bother me even more than the silly posts that say Oprah or some other vaguely (or even noticeably) liberal celebrity (or one who has merely said something progressive within a recent news cycle) should be the Dem candidate for POTUS or for an open seat in the House or Senate.

I expect such mindlessness from the RW base, and I know humans are not usually rational or thoughtful, regardless of their political inclinations (though there are more rational tendencies on our side--just not a lot of them). But I still feel something close to despair when I see such a post here on DU, where I come seeking interaction with like-minded liberal thinkers.

erpowers

(9,350 posts)
67. There Is A Difference
Tue Dec 24, 2013, 05:28 PM
Dec 2013

There is a difference between Democrats wanting the children of former presidents to run for office and someone saying it is sad that the WASP class seems to be losing control of this country and that their lost power should be restored. First, neither President Clinton nor President Obama came from the WASP class. They are the same people Epstein opposes. Second, a person should not be prevented from running for office just because their parent(s) held elected office.

I do not see a problem with people mentioning Oprah and other celebrities as potential candidates for office. I think part of the reason people like Oprah get mentioned is that cameras follow them around and most people, of not everyone, knows them. It seems like it would be hard for most people to mention their friends and family as potential candidates because most people at DU and around the country would not know those people. Supposedly name recognition plays a role in elections. It may be easier to win when more people know your name.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
72. tblue37 points out the strength and weakness of political forums in a single statement
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 12:45 PM
Dec 2013

"And yet right here on DU, you will see innumerable posts gleefully, worshipfully urging the idea that Chelsea Clinton or some new Kennedy scion, or Malia and Sascha should eventually be the Dem candidates for POTUS and VP."
Meritocracy? Not in our political culture.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
77. I don't think it's all that serious when someone says that
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 11:12 AM
Dec 2013

They would still have to be elected. Heredity means you don't have to do anything.

It does bother me when they hand things to Caroline Kennedy, like that ambassadorship or whatever it was. I don't know that she does not merit it, but I kind of assume there are people better qualified. She still had to be confirmed by normal channels, though.

Other Kennedys have had to win their elections. Granted their lineage gives them some clout with voters and maybe voters shouldn't think they are somehow more qualified, but they still have to present themselves to election and can be defeated.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
14. peeling jaw up from floor..
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 02:11 PM
Dec 2013

in full agreement with points made. just astonished that something like this would be published even in the WSJ's op-ed page. perhaps, they're wanting to cash in on the recent trend for outrageously racists remarks craze which does seem to have commercial value.. (eg that ducky guy etc)..

pscot

(21,024 posts)
61. That's not the argument Epstien is making.
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 07:53 PM
Dec 2013

Epstein is a foolish old man, but it seems unfair to trash him for things he didn't say and probably never even imagined. Think Progress is pushing our buttons. What Epstein has to say is kind of interesting. It's certainly a way of looking at a/the world that no longer exists, if it ever did.

Baitball Blogger

(46,706 posts)
6. I think the next twenty years are going to be interesting.
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 06:46 PM
Dec 2013

You see, not all those who have climbed up the ladder based on meritocracy are good hearts. Many of them may have been cutthroats who knew how to play the game. Maybe, most of them are. So what we're going to see is the clash of the nouveau power elite mixing in with the trust-fund family bankers.

I'm not convinced that this is, in any way, good news for the rest of us.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
7. Are not Teabaggers mostly WASP? He must not have noticed them. As one who is a born WASP myself...
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 08:22 PM
Dec 2013
I hate what they are doing to everyone.

They are busily destroying any good things that could have been passed on, fouling and distorting every ideal from the Enlightenment.

This guy needs to come out of his cocoon and see what the heirs of the WASP tradition have fallen into.

It's true, that those ruining all of it are greedy pigs. But it's not from non-whites, it's all from deluded WASPs.

JMHO.

caraher

(6,278 posts)
24. I don't think most Teabaggers are "true WASPs"
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:17 PM
Dec 2013

The teabaggers are a mix of ignorant people who can't tell grass roots from astroturf and those deliberately exploiting the blindness of the former group. The first group vastly outnumbers the latter, and you'll find the old-school WASPs mainly in the latter group. While technically they are mostly white and non-Catholic christians, most teabillies are not "anglo-saxon" and more importantly, not from the "ruling class" for whom Epstein expresses so much fulsome nostalgia.

I think a more accurate diagnosis is that, in their infinite ruling-class wisdom, Epstein's beloved WASPs decided that, for the purpose of preserving their positions of privilege, it was a better bet to encourage the forces of teabagger ignorance than to concede anything to more enlightened views.

So I think Epstein is right in some narrow technical sense, the fact is that they ceded any claim to intellectual high ground by accepting blatantly ignorant politics into polite company for personal gain. I agree the problem is not non-whites (wow, was that awkward!); I just think that the WASP subset of all whites is far less than half.

In a way, this echoes the tale of how the Irish became white in America. The teabillies I see where I live supporting political and economic views against their own best interests have been seduced into believing they have more in common with a Rand Paul or Mitt Romney than the Mexicans working in the same low-wage factory jobs they have. Divide and conquer, the oldest trick in the book for a privileged minority...

tblue37

(65,343 posts)
56. But there is a world of difference between a mere WASP and a member of the WASP *elite*--
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 01:18 PM
Dec 2013

Last edited Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:06 AM - Edit history (1)

and the op ed is pining for rule by the WASP elite. He would deplore the elevation of a mere WASP nobody to a position of power simply because that individual was smart enough and hard-working enough to get a good education and rise to such a position by way of personal merit rather than because of his elite lineage.

Jerks like Epstein are not just against people from minority groups or people with less than lily white complexions. He is against letting anyone who isn't part of the aristocracy have a share of power.

But isn't Epstein usually a Jewish name? (Or is it just German?--I am not that familiar with such things). Wouldn't he and his relatives be excluded from the halls if power under such a WASP-elite regime.

whathehell

(29,067 posts)
79. You ask a good question..
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:39 AM
Dec 2013

Epstein is generally a Jewish name and it's sad, and almost funny that this man would pine for the old WASP Aristocracy, as they

certainly discriminated against Jews and kept them out of their inner circles..

That historic reality was made quite clear in some of the earlier episodes of Mad Men.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
8. He ain't the only one pining for the Good Old Days, is he?
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 09:04 PM
Dec 2013

Lots of folks are all too happy to walk that road. All the while bemoaning how terrible this country has become now. Which I'm sure is just a coincidence that the Good old Days ended at damn near the same time(s) that women and people of color FINALLY started to get something resembling a toehold in this country.

tomg

(2,574 posts)
11. Ah yes, Joseph Epstein
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 11:32 AM
Dec 2013

Who pines for the British Empire ( Anglophilia, American Style), and who considers well, snobbery, in his 2002 work Snobbery, but who is still well known for his absolutely abhorrent and despicable views in a 1970 piece in Harpers in which he wrote:

“If I had the power to do so, I would wish homosexuality off the face of this earth. I would do so because I think that it brings infinitely more pain than pleasure to those who are forced to live with it; because I think there is no resolution for this pain in our lifetime, only, for the overwhelming majority of homosexuals, more pain and various degrees of exacerbating adjustment; and because, wholly selfishly, I find myself completely incapable of coming to terms with it.” (Homo/Hetero: The Struggle for Sexual Identity," Harpers, Sept. 1970)

At the time Harpers was edited by Midge Decter (yeah, that Midge Decter, wife of Norman Podhoretz and mom to John Podhoretz, and a woman who is 1980 penned her own little bit of homophobic garbage entitled "The Boys on the Beach" in Commentary, conveniently edited by Norman).

To my knowledge, Mr. Epstein has never publicly changed his views.

Rozlee

(2,529 posts)
12. Why does a guy with a last name like Epstein want America to be ruled by
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 01:40 PM
Dec 2013

White Anglo Saxon Protestants? The rich powerful elites of America's past wouldn't have let him anywhere near their country clubs.

Laughing Mirror

(4,185 posts)
19. "the sting of envy for WASPocracy"
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 02:32 PM
Dec 2013

is the way he himself describes the phenomenon. Doesn't seem to realize he's been stung too.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
15. It's sad that something like that can get published today
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 02:11 PM
Dec 2013

in a major newspaper - even the WSJ. Not surprising, but sad. We haven't come that far since the 1950s.

former9thward

(32,005 posts)
16. It was not an op-ed.
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 02:19 PM
Dec 2013

I notice now the title has changed from "wall street journal editorial" to "wall street journal op-ed". http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024210668

The WSJ op-eds for that edition were "The most memorable words of 2013" and "Are air mergers a handout to big labor?"

The WASP article appeared in a completely different section of the paper called the Weekend Review and was labeled an "Essay". If the NYT or Washington Post publishes an essay does that mean that is their position? Or even an op-ed which both those papers publish and have contrary opinions to their editorial page.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
20. An op-ed
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 02:44 PM
Dec 2013

"If the NYT or Washington Post publishes an essay does that mean that is their position?"

...doesn't mean it's an editorial by the paper's editorial board. It's an opinion piece. (On edit, to clarify: It's an opinion piece by a writer unaffiliated with the paper.)





ProSense

(116,464 posts)
23. Right, but it's still not the "position" of the paper.
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:02 PM
Dec 2013

Regardless of proximity, an op-ed, like an essay, is an opinion piece by a writer unaffiliated with the paper.

Arguing where it was placed in the paper, doesn't change the fact that this is an opinion piece by the writer.





 

Hestia

(3,818 posts)
42. Having worked at a newspaper, OP-ED is the position of the paper. It's what clarifies the definition
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 01:06 AM
Dec 2013

Anywhere else is essay or commentary.

paulkienitz

(1,296 posts)
17. I think Epstein's being mischaracterized
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 02:27 PM
Dec 2013

He's not talking about who should rule, he's talking about what happens any time there's an upheaval in the membership of a ruling class. Namely that those who've had generations of authority have eventually learned something about using it semi-wisely, while those new to it are more likely to have no idea what they're supposed to do with it. He's contrasting the effect of privilige on those prepared for it with how it effects those unprepared for it. His failure is in not considering the amount of privilege handed out, which is something we have more real choice over than we do about what kind of person will receive it.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
21. I don't think he is, and
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 02:51 PM
Dec 2013

"...He's contrasting the effect of privilige on those prepared for it with how it effects those unprepared for it. His failure is in not considering the amount of privilege handed out, which is something we have more real choice over than we do about what kind of person will receive it.

...that doesn't counter the OP's characterization.

In fact, he's specifically pining away for a time when WASP rule was almost Utopian.

The last WASP president was George H.W. Bush, but there is reason to believe he wasn't entirely proud of being a WASP. At any rate, he certainly wasn't featuring it. When running for office he made every attempt to pass himself off as a Texan, declaring a passion for pork rinds and a love for the music of the Oak Ridge Boys. (His son George W. Bush, even though he can claim impeccable WASP lineage and went to the right schools, seems otherwise to have shed all WASPish coloration and become an authentic Texan, happily married to a perfectly middle-class librarian.)

<...>

Under WASP hegemony, corruption, scandal and incompetence in high places weren't, as now, regular features of public life. Under WASP rule, stability, solidity, gravity and a certain weight and aura of seriousness suffused public life. As a ruling class, today's new meritocracy has failed to provide the positive qualities that older generations of WASPs provided.

Frankly, I think he's delusional.

paulkienitz

(1,296 posts)
33. I won't disagree with that part
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 10:23 PM
Dec 2013
Frankly, I think he's delusional.


His view of the WASPy past is indeed delusional, but there's certainly a valid reason for him to draw a negative comparison against the CEO class of today relative to that of our grandfathers' time. I think he's overestimating the degree to which the new class is a different set of people ethnically from what it was before, but I don't think he's overestimating how much more corrupt and destructive the present bunch is relative to the past.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
50. "His view of the WASPy past is indeed delusional..."
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:40 AM
Dec 2013

"...but there's certainly a valid reason for him to draw a negative comparison against the CEO class of today relative to that of our grandfathers' time."

The only difference now is the degree to which they're able to be exposed. They would have acted in the same way then had they been confronted with their corruption.

I mean, look at McCain and other Republican Senators (current and former), Cheney and those in the private sector from that era. They're all tools, indistinguishable from those the author claims now occupies the private and public realm.



bhikkhu

(10,716 posts)
25. Idiotic nevertheless
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:25 PM
Dec 2013

If you want to make the argument, you would have to look at some of the more blatant and damaging "corruption, scandal and incompetence" episodes in the past generation, and then demonstrate that they were the result of "non-whites" being involved.

Look at the Great Recession we are still rebuilding from. Who were the non-whites that crashed the global credit system and left the housing markets, and all the rest of the markets, in wreckage? Were those hedge funds really all run by blacks and Mexicans?

A previous debacle was the S&L crisis and virtual collapse of the 90's, that blew a big hole in the economy and cost the government something around $400 billion to patch up. So - who were the blacks and Mexicans to blame there?

How about the recession under GH Bush? The recession under Reagan? What color were the incompetents responsible for initiating and screwing up the Second Iraq War? How about the inflationary spiral and the whole mess under Carter - or were "the whites" still in charge then?

However much you might try to apologise away and justify what the Op-ed really meant to say, the gist of it remains idiocy.

paulkienitz

(1,296 posts)
32. you are misreading him
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 10:16 PM
Dec 2013
Look at the Great Recession we are still rebuilding from. Who were the non-whites that crashed the global credit system and left the housing markets, and all the rest of the markets, in wreckage? Were those hedge funds really all run by blacks and Mexicans?

That's not what he said at all. The point is that the current privileged class, even if they are white, are no longer tied to the WASP culture, which matters because one aspect of that culture was that it tried to teach a modicum of responsibility when granted power. The people who created the big crash are indeed mostly white, but they're people that nobody ever tried to teach that to. Because their parents were presumably not at the same level of privilege, so they didn't know this was something they needed to learn.

I'm not going to defend his rose-tinted nostalgia, but he does have a somewhat valid point in there, and it has nothing to do with whether today's privileged class is white or not. It has to do with what makes George W. different from George H.W. -- why one's leadership may have been poor but was adeqate at a basic level, while the other's was utterly and irredeemably inadequate.

Heck, I bet a lot of his post-WASP ruling class actually are still WASPs today by ancestry, and what he's really mourning is the lack of fitness of the younger generation relative to the older in that class.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
34. You'll need a lot more than conveniently anecdotal bullshit to back this up...
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 10:24 PM
Dec 2013
"The point is that the current privileged class, even if they are white, are no longer tied to the WASP culture, which matters because one aspect of that culture was that it tried to teach a modicum of responsibility when granted power."

bhikkhu

(10,716 posts)
35. Without the rose-tinted nostalgia, the meaning is even less
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 10:32 PM
Dec 2013

Look a bit at the economic history as managed by the supreme competence of WASP culture:

Starting from an arbitrary point, there was the Panic of 1837, then the Panic of 1847, the Panic of 1857, the colossal stretch of serial incompetence that culminated in the Civil War, then the Panic of 1867. After that we had the Panic of 1873, the Panic of 1884, the Panic of 1890, and the Panic of 1893. That period is sometimes strung together as the Long Depression. Then we have the Panic of 1907. Of course, during that time we also saw the rise of US imperialism, where we defeated Spain and took selected colonies. Our war in the Philippines, if you read of it, reminds on of Vietnam or Iraq, though no lessons were learned apparently.

I could go on at great length, but my point would be that WASP culture in positions of leadership, was a vast long train-wreck, made palatable only by rose-tinted glasses and selectively failing memory. Once you take a real look at where we came from the present begins to look more like an age of competence, punctuated by brief relapses into the idiocies of our WASPish past.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
38. I agree with you, as I read the original essay by Epstein.
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 11:07 PM
Dec 2013

I love the Saturday Review, actually.

There is some very good stuff in the WSJ, as long as I stay away from the editorial page.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
44. Why limit yourself to the last generation?
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 09:33 AM
Dec 2013

Consider the WASP-ridden administration of Warren Harding. Let's start with the head of the Veterans Bureau, Charles Forbes, who was shown to have embezzled well over $200 million in three years (the total budget for the Bureau during Forbes' tenure was $1.3 billion).

Then there was the Secretary of the Interior, Albert Fall, who leased some oil reserves at Teapot Dome intended for the navy to Sinclair Oil for a very large bribe. There is reason to believe that the Secretary of the Navy also was involved, but nothing was ever proven.

But the cream of that crop was the Attorney General, Harry Daugherty.

• Daugherty blocked an investigation into the Wright-Martin Aircraft Company's $2.3 million (in 1920s dollars) overcharges on government contracts. Daugherty owned stock in Wright-Martin.

• When the warden of the Federal pen in Atlanta started to investigate narcotics dealing in the prison, Daugherty fired him and stopped the investigation. (The Superintendent of Prisons was Hardings' brother-in-law.)

• A bootlegger, Harry Remus, claimed that he paid a $250K bribe to Daugherty and two other men so that he would not be arrested or indicted. This was followed up only in the case of one of the two others, who was convicted (the other killed himself before an indictment was handed down).

• Daugherty blocked the investigation of Forbes, the aforementioned embezzling head of the Veterans Bureau.

• Daugherty tried to block the investigation into Fall's acceptance of bribes in the Teapot Dome scandal.

• Daugherty was later tried for having accepted a bribe from American Metals Corporation. It was a hung jury, with 11 jurors for conviction and one against.

• It is generally considered that the reason Daugherty did not go to prison was that Assistant Attorney General Jess Smith burned a lot of papers just before he supposedly committed suicide in Daugherty's apartment.

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
58. paulkienitz
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 01:34 PM
Dec 2013

paulkienitz

I have never been part of the "ruling class" and would possible never be it - even if I won millions of the national lottery - it might have given me some "status" but never a part of the "ruling class" - not that I am in any need of being part of it anyway

But I do learned to do good to others - and to take responsibility for my own actions - and what I learned home - I hope I would be able to use if I ever was into a lot of money.... To excuse many who are seen to not take any personal responsibility because they are not "born into it" it a low excuse... With a lot of money - some responsibilities comes with it - anyhow you look at it...

Many who came into a lot of wealth might end up with loosing their head for a while - but then it is important to have someone who could keep your down to earth - I do have that - my foster mother who would tell me in terms that is pretty clear - if I get into a lot of money - to sharpen up - and stay on the earth.... She is of the old school, where you was not to blaster your wealth away - even if you do had a few bucks.... And I guess, if I ever was to struck gold - in lottery or otherwise would keep an low profile - and for the most part just enjoy having enough money in the bank - after all, if you are able to pay your bills - have a house - and a decent car (Not some fancy car, just a decent car who is not to old and constantly need repairs) how many money you really need the rest of your life ?....

And for the most part I doubt that so many of the ones who is born into privileged - and a lot of money - have learned to be responsible anyway - my experience in that apartment is rather on the other side - I have known a few who have been born into more riches than I would ever be into - who act as they are spoiled 15 year olds - even if they have more money than Crussus had in ancient times...

Diclotican

Todays_Illusion

(1,209 posts)
85. That sounds very much like justification for the reprehensible, because unprovable idea you
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 11:32 PM
Dec 2013

are providing.

Naturally an equally strong and provable argument exists against: Old corrupt and entrenched, power long held by the same group.

enki23

(7,788 posts)
26. In a time of plutocracy, he bemoans the supposed decline of the aristocracy.
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:27 PM
Dec 2013

Fuck, all of them? Right. Fuck all of them.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
27. It's revolting to us, but from their view it's an utterly logical action on their part
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:34 PM
Dec 2013

Think about it: They are a waning demographic, and their pathetic attempts to widen their base was a complete fail due to both their tone deafness and lingering overtones of contempt. It is at this point they see no need to make nice and act benign anymore. No, now they're just trying to solidify their base; circle the wagons, so to speak, and go down the tubes as slowly as possible through obstruction and rear-guard actions.

 

chungking34

(51 posts)
30. eh, screw the WSJ
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 05:11 PM
Dec 2013

That rag is only good for use as a cheap paperweight, or lining a birdcage. And I for one can't wait for the end of "white rule" in this country.

on point

(2,506 posts)
31. More likely related to rise of repuke predator class that cheats & steals whenever it can
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 06:12 PM
Dec 2013

They think rules are for other people. Greed is good and winning is all that counts

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
36. I've read better fantasy
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 10:43 PM
Dec 2013

It kind of reads like a second-rate Buckley without the sailing anecdotes to rescue it. His claims are sadly stereotypical. His claims that today's corruption is worse than in the past and that the WASPs would have prevented the complete meltdown of 2007-8 and the resulting depression are just pathetic. You'd think Teapot Dome and the Great Depression, not to mention the zillion or so other depressions, didn't happen on their watch. It makes me think that he never really paid attention to much during his life, so he's surprised by everything now because old stories always seem novel to the ignorant.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
37. I read the original Epstein essay in the WSJ, and this OP is completely wrong.
Sun Dec 22, 2013, 11:03 PM
Dec 2013

His essay is about the demise and fall of the WASP power structure in the United States. A very small part of it was about the positive contribution of WASP culture, and he was in no way advocating it's return. It was more of a historical commentary.

It was a very good essay. I would point out that Epstein is hardly part of the WASP establishment.

Read the original essay:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304367204579268301043949952




TBF

(32,060 posts)
45. Agree. I read the entire thing and it's a historical piece -
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:12 AM
Dec 2013

describing what the WASP class was and why it is no longer very relevant.

There is a mix at the top right now - new technology money and families such as the Koch's or Walmarts - the corporate players who most certainly would be mocked in NYC social circles but controlling an awful lot of wealth. Ronald Reagan was the epitome of that class I think - he may have been white but he certainly wasn't from the WASP class and his policies really benefited the Koch and Walton set.

Entering into the 21st century capitalism has entered the global realm and the WASPs who still have some inherited wealth may be players (most notably in the investment banker circles) but the real $$$ in this country now is in Silicon Valley and a large pot still sitting with the Walton/Koch families. Personally I think the technological leaders will be holding court as the Waltons/Kochs die off and the United States continues to morph into a country that looks much more like the others of this world with a large amount of wealth held by very few persons at the top. You can already see their prominance as Obama jets off to Silicon Valley to meet with them from time to time. I see that only increasing in this technological world.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
47. I read it and...
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:21 AM
Dec 2013

you are right-- it is a light historical commentary.

Very light.

And ignores the horror stories of the alleged WASP culture, such as Teapot Dome, the Jonestown Flood, the Depression, and most of the 19th Century. But, that's what light history does, and this is nothing for those people up above to get upset about.

And, yes, there is little reason for someone name Epstein to wish for WASP power.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
48. No
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:31 AM
Dec 2013
I read it and...

you are right-- it is a light historical commentary.

Very light.

And ignores the horror stories of the alleged WASP culture, such as Teapot Dome, the Jonestown Flood, the Depression, and most of the 19th Century. But, that's what light history does, and this is nothing for those people up above to get upset about.

And, yes, there is little reason for someone name Epstein to wish for WASP power.

...it's delusional. I mean, these comments stating that the author ignores facts, but somehow he shouldn't be taken to task for his commentary make no sense. People tend to challenge opinions that they believe are skewed, not based in reality.

Also, the author is specifically pining away for a time when WASP rule was almost Utopian.

The last WASP president was George H.W. Bush, but there is reason to believe he wasn't entirely proud of being a WASP. At any rate, he certainly wasn't featuring it. When running for office he made every attempt to pass himself off as a Texan, declaring a passion for pork rinds and a love for the music of the Oak Ridge Boys. (His son George W. Bush, even though he can claim impeccable WASP lineage and went to the right schools, seems otherwise to have shed all WASPish coloration and become an authentic Texan, happily married to a perfectly middle-class librarian.)

<...>

Under WASP hegemony, corruption, scandal and incompetence in high places weren't, as now, regular features of public life. Under WASP rule, stability, solidity, gravity and a certain weight and aura of seriousness suffused public life. As a ruling class, today's new meritocracy has failed to provide the positive qualities that older generations of WASPs provided.

Again, I think he's delusional.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
51. Really?
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:43 AM
Dec 2013

"Delusional or not, it's still...a light piece that doesn't deserve any effort to rebut it."

I guess your opinion (ignore delusional commentary) should be the rule, huh?

You could have ignored this thread. Why didn't you?

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
53. Just killing time-- ignored lots of other silly threads so far today...
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:56 AM
Dec 2013

and will ignore many, many more.

And, as far as opinions go, I'm sure you remember what they are like. This entire thread started with an opinion and has little but opinions in it.

Just like most threads.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
54. This is
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 12:00 PM
Dec 2013

"And, as far as opinions go, I'm sure you remember what they are like. This entire thread started with an opinion and has little but opinions in it.

Just like most threads. "

...beyond astute!

Still, why are you upset that people are voicing their opinions in response to this opinion piece?

Why did you feel it necessary to jump into this "silly" thread to state that the writer's opinion should be ignored?

bhikkhu

(10,716 posts)
65. You're just killing time, but there really is something to learn here
Tue Dec 24, 2013, 12:31 PM
Dec 2013

The topic means a lot to a very many people. The perspective of Epstein is the same one that shaped, blinded and stunted the mental growth of several past generations.

I count myself fortunate to not hold to it, and I'm very grateful that my kids, and presumably much of their generation, can easily recognize the stupidity it represents, and wonder what was ever wrong with people that they thought that way.

cprise

(8,445 posts)
41. Epstein along with most of you DUers are wrong!
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 12:52 AM
Dec 2013

This country is now run by a corporate plutocracy or oligarchy, depending on how you look at it. And that sphere is still overwhelmingly white AND male.

Those white people now gravitate toward an anti-government mindset because--on paper--in the 20th century the government was no longer devoted primarily to them.

The politicians have been largely demoted... retained as figureheads for the masses to obsess over (sadly, DU has retained the knack after all these years).

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
52. mistake
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:55 AM
Dec 2013


A financier I know who grew up under the WASP standard not long ago told me that he thought that the subprime real estate collapse and the continuing hedge-fund scandals have been brought on directly by men and women who are little more than “greedy pigs” (his words) without a shred of character or concern for their clients or country. Naturally, he added, they all have master’s degrees from the putatively best business schools in the nation.

Thus far in their history, meritocrats, those earnest good students, appear to be about little more than getting on, getting ahead and (above all) getting their own. The WASP leadership, for all that may be said in criticism of it, was better than that.



His mistake is that the "WASP" (old money) is perfectly capable of being just as greedy when challenged or threatened. They are only concerned with 'the little people' when security and status allows them the luxury of tossing a few crumbs to them like pigeons. Vs the 'new money' which is pretty much no holds barred piracy - until they become the ones in charge and then the cycle starts all over again.



rocktivity

(44,576 posts)
59. The decline of while rule can be explained with just two words
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 01:45 PM
Dec 2013

Last edited Mon Dec 23, 2013, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)

White rulers.

The ruled class have finally figured out that the ruling class is a defective product which they no longer want to buy. Let's hear it for free market enterprise.


rocktivity

 

Pretzel_Warrior

(8,361 posts)
60. I get the WSJ at home and read that. YUCK! The author wasn't even very convincing.
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 01:52 PM
Dec 2013

Carter and Clinton were both presidents who had all the attributes of WASPs but according to the author definitely weren't wasps. It is a pretty pathetic pining for the good old days when only a few lily white "Christian" families ruled the show from their mansions on the East Coast.

Garbage.

mbperrin

(7,672 posts)
62. Wonder how he explains away the United Fruit debacle in Latin America?
Mon Dec 23, 2013, 08:07 PM
Dec 2013

Killing people with the CIA, most assuredly run by a WASP, as a favor to a corporation does not sound so neat nor respectable.

Well, tons of nonsense is published all the time, and this is another.

drynberg

(1,648 posts)
64. So, seriously...
Tue Dec 24, 2013, 11:16 AM
Dec 2013

When and how did the Onion get control of the WSJ OpEd? This is hilarious...and to think so many don't believe the Big Shots don't have a sense of humor...HA HA!

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
68. Except for about 30 years
Tue Dec 24, 2013, 08:23 PM
Dec 2013

This country has been at war or engaged in a military conflict.

Good job Waspy!

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
69. I would rather...
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 05:23 AM
Dec 2013

be ruled by a race of police-robots from Michael Rennie's planet,
than be ruled by Greedhead Wall Street Oligarchs.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
73. I recommend studying the "enclosure" movement, England, 17th-19th centuries...
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 02:37 AM
Dec 2013

...basically the rich upperclass stealing all the land in England, attacking and destroying the notion of "the commons," throwing the MANY small, subsistence farmers OFF the land, creating vagrancy and other laws in order to throw the poor OUT OF THE COUNTRY as "indentured" slaves--using also "impressment" of the poor as slave sailors (however skilled they may have been, they were still slaves on shipboard, often for life) or throwing the poor into the ugliest urban squalor ever seen, or into factory slavery.

There's your WASP class, for you--whether Protestant or Church of England, or, in the case of 'white' Spanish rulers in Latin America, Catholic. England wrote the book on creating WASPS: Highly privileged education; taught ethics and social responsibility; imbued with Christian ceremony and theology; born with "silver spoons" in their mouths--wealth based on the land that they or their forefathers stole and "enclosed," at home AND abroad; "born to rule"; automatic power, as a class, over the Law, the Economy and the Empire; allegedly SELF-REGULATING (that is, behavior modified by the "boys club" that you belonged to, amidst the bigger "boys' club" that was England).

Stole. All. The. Land.

This is not to say they didn't create an interesting culture. They did. It is a culture, for instance, that ended the British slave trade on moral grounds, and instituted many progressive reforms in the early 20th century--and a culture, too, with great scientific and other achievements. And the English-Welsh-Scots-Irish gift for language underpinned that culture in beautiful ways (think of Shakespeare or James Joyce or Jane Austen, et al) and in MASKING (cover-up) ways that disguised the naked greed of the English upper class ("Upstairs/Downstairs" civilization at home; naked greed abroad).

I was kind of besotted with the English upper class until I learned of the "enclosure" movement, late in life. Its REAL impacts--in death, disease and enslavement of the British poor--are not well-known here. It's not part of our education. (We inherited "enclosure" with no democratic choice in the matter--no discussion--and zero knowledge of what it MEANS to society that there are no common lands on which a poor family can grow food. Though there was lots and lots of land to be stolen from the Indians--thus masking the issue of "enclosure"--what occurred was eventual "enclosure" of the west--dramatically illustrated by the Railroad Barons and other Robber Barons of the late 19th century, and, today, by huge, multinational corporate landowners.)

This same class--here and there--the WASP class here, the WASCE class there (white anglo-saxon Church of England) ALSO precipitated the vast, senseless carnage of WWI, and the Great Depression of the 1930s; committed all of the mistakes throughout that era that led to WWII; precipitated the vast, senseless carnage of the Vietnam War, the Savings & Loan lootings of the 1980s (comparable to the "enclosure" movement--looting of small savers' money), and other such horrors (deregulation, unfair tax laws, union busting, et al); the CIA destructions of democracy around the world throughout the 20th century (including, notably, Iran's first democracy in the 1950s) (on-going policy throughout the world today), the Great Depression of 2008, the horrors of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the horror of the U.S. "war on drugs," and the increasing militarization and belligerence of WASP/WASCE culture in service to the 1% that we have seen in the first decade of the 21st century.

Not to mention tolerance of segregation, lynchings and vast injustice in the U.S. south, and racial prejudice and exclusion throughout the country, with some of the worst instances of racism occurring well into the second half of the 20th century, and with racism rearing its head (visible) again now. I also include in my indictment of the ruling elite that this fascist writer pines for: the probable CIA assassinations of JFK (case proven*), RFK and MLK--all of whom were trying to CURTAIL the murderous, thieving waywardness of the ruling class.

You can appreciate an imperial culture--British, American, Roman, ancient Chinese, Egyptian, Persian--with your EYES OPEN. That is how I read English literature now, with eyes open. The "enclosure" movement enriches my understanding of British culture. It is WHY Charles Dickens wrote the books that he did, about poverty and urban squalor. It is why D.H. Lawrence rebelled against industrialization and lauded nature and love. It is where Wordsworth was coming from and the other great Romantics (nostalgia for PRE-"enclosure" England and its functioning rural communities based on "the commons&quot . Patrick O'Brian discusses it in the Aubrey-Maturin novels (great sea novels!) (Captain Aubrey opposes enclosure of his and other lands in his district). You can see it (the "enclosure" issue) underpinning Tolkien's fantasy novels.

Numerous English writers deal with "enclosure" issues, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, including stories about great fortunes being made and the social impacts on the ruling class itself. Most of those fortunes began with enclosure (robbing the peasants and yeomen of "the commons", then investing in robbing other peoples, as the Empire grew). We can appreciate the travails of a Victorian heroine involved in love and marriage matters but we should know that, often, the great land or monetary fortunes involved (who marries whom, and who gets what fortune) were based on deliberate, well-planned, heartless, massive, ruling class robbery.**

George Orwell wrote in 1944
Stop to consider how the so-called owners of the land got hold of it. They simply seized it by force, afterwards hiring lawyers to provide them with title-deeds. In the case of the enclosure of the common lands, which was going on from about 1600 to 1850, the land-grabbers did not even have the excuse of being foreign conquerors; they were quite frankly taking the heritage of their own countrymen, upon no sort of pretext except that they had the power to do so.
—George Orwell, As I Please, Tribune, 18 August 1944


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure ***
(my emphasis)

--------------------

One thing to admire in the English ruling class is its production of thinkers like Orwell, and Bertrand Russell, and so many others. The English ruling class generates self-criticism, sometimes institutes reforms as a consequence, but, on the whole--as here--this has NOT moderated the overwhelming rapaciousness of the main thrust of the WASP and WASP-like classes. The WASPs here were the "robber barons" of the late 19th and early 20th century who brought on horrible wars and depressions, often in collusion with the "barons," there (in England). There is NOTHING inherently moral or ethical or honorable about this class. There is, however, an abiding hypocrisy on both sides of "the pond" that hides greed with all manner of lies, propaganda, cover-ups and political/religious piety.

-----------------------------------------------------------------


*(Recommended: "JFK and the Unspeakable: How He Died and Why It Matters," by James Douglass. Case closed, including why. it. STILL. matters.)

**(For great info on the impacts of "enclosure": The Many-Headed Hydra: Sailors, Slaves, Commoners, and the Hidden History of the Revolutionary Atlantic [Paperback]
Peter Linebaugh (Author), Marcus Rediker (Author)

***(Wiki's article on enclosure is okay for some basic facts but not very good on the human and humane issues around enclosure. It pretty much omits the blood and anguish of the many anti-enclosure struggles over the centuries, and the ultimate impacts: decimation of rural communities and peoples. The article does, however, link to many CURRENT "enclosure" struggles, many in Latin America.)The wiki article points out that the early English kings fought enclosure, against the Whigs, Puritans, etc., who have been called a "parliament of landlords." The king in old times had sacred duties to the land and the people. The king was even magically associated with the fertility of the land, and thus defended the land, and the peasants, yeomen and villagers, against the original "robber barons"--the Enclosers.)

----------------------------------------

The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But lets the greater felon loose
Who steals the common from off the goose
—Anon, wealthandwant.com[28]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure






merrily

(45,251 posts)
75. Isn't Epstein a member of a minority group?
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 10:43 AM
Dec 2013

Yeah, hedge funds happened because of people who were not WASPs. WASPs were far too classy to have done things like owned and trafficked in slaves, established the Ku Klux Klan, brought about the crash of 1929, fought the end of Jim Crow, interned the Japanese, etc.




If one can judge by surnames, WASPs seem to be well represented on this list of successful 2011 hedge fund managers, especially considering they are probably now themselves a minority in the US.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2012/hedge-fund-managers-12_land.html

Another ass:

David Brooks writes that WASPs took pride in "good posture, genteel manners, personal hygiene, pointless discipline, the ability to sit still for long periods of time."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant

Yeah, because the rest of America is slouching, ill-mannered, dirty, undisciplined and unable to sit still.

Then there's Bill O'Reilly, who couldn't get over how well-behaved people in a soul food restaurant were.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2007/09/21/oreilly-surprised-there-was-no-difference-betwe/139893

Why can't we label this as bigotry?

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
76. TThe journal was always conservative, but since Murdock has taken over it has. become more so
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 10:52 AM
Dec 2013

When my subscription is up I won't renew

Gothmog

(145,231 posts)
78. The GOP is the party of Whites only
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 05:00 PM
Dec 2013

Salon has a good essay on why the GOP is the party of whites. http://www.salon.com/2013/12/22/how_the_gop_became_the_white_mans_party/ This goes back the 1964 race

As the conservative journalist Robert Novak reported after attending a meeting of the Republican National Committee in Denver during the summer of 1963: “A good many, perhaps a majority of the party’s leadership, envision substantial political gold to be mined in the racial crisis by becoming in fact, though not in name, the White Man’s Party. ‘Remember,’ one astute party worker said quietly . . . ‘this isn’t South Africa. The white man outnumbers the Negro 9 to 1 in this country.’ ” The rise of a racially-identified GOP is not a tale of latent bigotry in that party. It is instead a story centered on the strategic decision to use racism to become “the White Man’s Party.”


The use of racial politics is well documented in this article
 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
80. I certainly agree that being governed by a bunch of first generation greedheads
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:59 PM
Dec 2013

is worse than the WASP leadership, but neither is good...with very rare exceptions like FDR.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
81. from the people who gave us this
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:40 PM
Dec 2013
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

Lucky duckies is a term that was used in Wall Street Journal editorials starting on 20 November 2002 to refer to Americans who pay no federal income tax because they are at an income level that is below the tax line (after deductions and credits). The term has outlived its original use to become a part of the informal terminology used in the tax reform debate in the United States.

Hubert Flottz

(37,726 posts)
83. The WSJ is about as trustworthy as...
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 01:40 PM
Dec 2013

it's daddy, brother Rupert the Reich Wing hyper-bolix media's king of kings. King of all the lying @$$ corporate republican propaganda media's many, many, dipshits. Rupert M. is almost as ugly as Alan Greedspin. Too ugly to jail?

Todays_Illusion

(1,209 posts)
84. My head is still spinning from days ago and I first read this, Merry Christmas to America. I had to
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 11:16 PM
Dec 2013

come here to see what others are saying, it is 1890s I wondered If I had time traveled.

What a 5 years this has been, first we saw openly the racism still resident in the U.S.A., discovering rather late it has been nourished by a tribe of of radio conservatives, coast to coast, border to border, and of course Fox News.

Then with the various budget fights have had revealed to us the conservative plans for the ordinary citizens of this country, and this kind gentleman is telling you and me, why.


Look at the things we have heard, let's eliminate minimum wage, bring back child labor, disenfranchise women, eliminate voting rights, secede from the union, (remember those post election petitions.) All this and much more.

Wolf Frankula

(3,600 posts)
87. Joe, No Matter How Much You Want to Be
Thu Jan 2, 2014, 11:29 PM
Jan 2014

No matter how much you kiss their ass, no matter how much you study, write and learn; you will never be an old money, old family, WASP. You're a sh**ny, Joe. A Old Money, Old Family WASP will go into business with you, employ you as an accountant, lawyer, doctor, or dentist, have cocktails with you at a bar, borrow from you and lend money to you, buy and sell with you, have an affair with your daughter or son, and have dinner at your house or your club. But you will never be welcome at his club, welcome at his house, or be regarded as anything other than a pushy, money grubbing Jew.

There are exceptions, or course. But that is the attitude from my experience. The OMOF Wasps would NEVER join the Klan, or the Nazis, that's vulgar and common, and will get you blackballed.
But Joe, you will NEVER be regarded as their equals.

Wolf

(Who is neither Jewish, nor an OMOF WASP, but has had experience with both. The above has been told me by members of both communities.)

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