General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI admit it..... I fantasize (a lot) about women.....
And in those fantasies we are NEVER talking about our jobs. Or children. Or volunteering to save the manatees.
In those fantasies we are mostly having sex with each other and doing unspeakable acts to each other all in the name of pure pleasure.
What is worse, so I now find out, is that in these fantasies ALL of the women are very attractive. Hell, in these fantasies, I am better looking (if that was possible, I know). I have tried lately to think of unattractive women when fantasizing but there are no swimsuit photos of Hillary Clinton on the interwebs (Ha ha ha!) so my mind tends to turn to more attractive types.
I know I need help and soon. I sent away for my Margaret Thatcher blow up doll, but I am afraid it won't make it by the Holidays.
Poor Julia Roberts till then eh?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to trash this thread
pintobean
(18,101 posts)to your meta thread.
bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)You may find that self deleting this would save you some grief. YMMV.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)It's perfectly acceptable on DU3.
kcr
(15,320 posts)The quality of DU has improved so much. They've been talking about it in ATA. Isn't it great!
bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)But that's the trouble with a jury of six random members out of 200k+. Sometimes it's luck of the draw.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)but the management of the place certainly does. BTW, there aren't anywhere near 200K active accounts --the number is probably closer to 5000. I only point that out because the odds are so different and with the number of juries that LEAVE stuff like this it feels less like the luck of the draw and more like a window into the shifting sentiments of DUers.
arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)Apparently I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
klook
(12,165 posts)I was thinking earlier, I think it's going to be a DU-free Christmas for me. And maybe that's a good thing.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)you were almost making a point until you said Hillary Clinton was ugly. this isn't helping establish some sort of male right to find women attractive.
Lex
(34,108 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)Tell me are you ashamed or just a fan of Edward Lee?
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Put away the Egg Nog.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)coming from you.
trumad
(41,692 posts)This is one weird OP.
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Great in that aliens show, too. Shame it was canceled
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)lol edit due to funny autocorrect.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)she has good hair.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I love the short hair look she has sometimes. It reminds me of Halle Berry, another short hair beauty I really can appreciate.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)I find short hair very attractive on women, like my all time favorite Audrey Hepburn -
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Response to quinnox (Reply #9)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)...bless your heart.
Mail Message
At Mon Dec 23, 2013, 08:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Benny should have put some music in the OP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4220381
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
The video is inappropriate for du. Women shouldn't have to put up with this crap here.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 23, 2013, 08:58 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: I'm a fan of snark (and liked the gesture) but I gotta side with the alerter. Sorry dude
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Sex is a beautiful thing
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The alerter needs to explain him or herself more. Given the "male gaze" wars of du jour, it seems perfectly appropriate.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Many of the images were acceptable, but several seemed overboard. More importantly why is anyone using DU to extend their sexual fantasies. I'm not a fan of censorship in most cases, and I can see an argument for allowing this post for the purpose of engaging discussion, but this post seems to belong elsewhere. This is the first time I've run across material like this on DU and it simply seems out of place. The more I think about this the less I am sure I am correct in my opinion, but I also want children to engage in DU discussions and because of that I stand by my vote.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's the Holidays. Let it be. Boy's will be ummm something
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Not right⦠This is pretty much baiting right here.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Thanks for sharing.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Someone alerted on that?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)their to have your bro points again.
feeling all manly again....?
warren does it regularly with his hot celebs. if we women get to vocal, or seem to make any ground, up goes some more picture.
awfully predictable and awfully telling....
Response to seabeyond (Reply #118)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)to trash, warren. i was simply making a point, when you men are challenged even a tad, here comes some more naked. almost like a security blanket.
Response to seabeyond (Reply #125)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)a statement with another near naked woman.
da man.
Response to seabeyond (Reply #128)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)You'd be distraught if it didn't get talked about now and again.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #134)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)I've seen some posts of yours in those threads that show a sense of pride that it ticks some people off. I think it makes you feel subversive.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #136)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)It's hardly DU's most active.
Am I supposed to know the mustached man? I hope you're not insinuating I'm sporting ironic facial hair. I do need to go in for a waxing, but it's not that bad. At least it's blonde.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #139)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)I was joking.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #141)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)I couldn't actually think you were talking about my facial hair because you can't see me. I've have to suffer from schizo-affective disorder or some such thing to actually believe that.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #143)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
Soundman
(297 posts)BainsBane
(53,066 posts)the appropriate course of action is to bring it to Skinner's attention rather than engaging in petty gossip.
I realize it may shock you to believe that more than five women on the planet consider themselves equal human beings entitled to full human rights, but it is the 21st century and not the 19th, as inconvenient as you may find that fact. Time marches on, while some opt to relegate themselves to the dustbin of history.
What? I hear an echo.......there are some VERY, VERY uptight people here. I read a post earlier I though hit the nail on the head, something about five or so people making this place miserable? If there is one saving grace though, it should become much more readable around here after the first of the year.
Merry Christmas to you and yours,
S.M.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)".there are some VERY, VERY uptight people here..." Quite correct... and they're rather laborious in telling us about the "five or so people making this place miserable", never realizing they are in fact, contributing to the suckage themselves.
(insert rationalization here)
Soundman
(297 posts)I hadn't had my morning snark just yet.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)and log into GD every morning. You'll be loaded on snark before breakfast.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)In order to avoid understanding the actual context, but it began because I posted in HOF an Indian PSA about street harassment, the kind that is part of the culture of rape and murder in that country. Redqueen reposted it in GD. It got over 125 recs, but a couple of men decided that such an ad was an affront to their right to treat women as garbage. That an Indian PSA is too progressive for a few around here is really their problem.
In case you missed it:
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)what is this thread of which you write? It seems like it might be interesting.
Response to NaturalHigh (Reply #197)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I see some reading entertainment in my future.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)I had no idea. To what? And what is awfully telling?
It appears to me that I'm entitled to the presumption of guilt, since I'm a man, unless I climb on the HOF bandwagon.
I don't need to be "educated" on things that my parents taught me 40-50 years ago - a code of conduct that I've lived my whole life. None of the women who have been in my life have ever thought of me the way you presume me to be. This is a website for liberals and progressives. I assume that every man here knows how to treat women with respect. Everyone here is entitled to the presumption of innocence.
What you're seeing is push-back against arrogant and insulting presumptions and accusations.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)You're out of line for all the false assumptions and accusations against your fellow DUers - male and female. Agreeing with the HOF pov is not a purity test for this site.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)out comes the naked women. push back.
you do not like whatever
talk about false accusation
none of you can stick to the point. YOU go to the personal attack. and it does not even have to be valid
my POINT. and true. you state, push back... because you do not like what we were saying
out comes the naked
another thread, your creative personal attack
tell me about integrity pinto
where would my false be.... addressing what YOU put out
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Typical.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)you are going to gripe now that i got specific? you gripe when i dont get specific. tells me you leave no option. i am not allowed to address the specific men that are doing this
typical
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Who are "you men"? Is it me? Did I do something to personally offend you, or are you just offended in general?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)What do you mean by "push back"? Push back against what?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)you are wasting my time. i am outta here
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)As always, it's been a pleasure chatting with you.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)And nothing piques the vapid interests of some people as "Hawt Celebs" also.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other-- both as petulant as the other, yet insert distinction without a difference here... just in case)
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)opening doors.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)benevolent sexism was in an OP from a man. another man asked what it was. i gave a definition and two or three examples. YOU men (that would be the men harping on "the doors" reduced all that, the term benevolent sexism, the definition, and the other two examples to the one example of opening the door.
do lecture me on honesty.
and please. do not make me laugh while you do it.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)since I intended it as a joke. An attempt at humor. Levity. Comedy.
(But, oh goodness, saying that opening doors for women is sexist was funny too.)
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)more a theoretical discussion that turned into stupid with the whole door thing, even a year later.
laughing, i draw in air. drawing in air hurts... why i am trying not to laugh. nothing personal. see how little assuming accomplishes?
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I know you're sick, and I sympathize. Being sick sucks, especially in the cold weather. Maybe just a painless chuckle.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i gotta laugh. one way or another. that is the majority of who i am.
i like you. i am ready to call out to all the men that see me as a man hater and tell them to line up, i buy the first round.
or it is the medicine talking, lol lol
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)For reasons that I won't get into right now, I'm never going to Amarillo again.
Have a pleasantly medicated evening. Hopefully you got the cough medicine with the codeine.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Admit it, come on - you treat women differently than men. You kiss them, have sex with them, hold hands with them, look at them.
Don't worry though, a little re-neducation (simpson's reference) and we will have you doing the same thing with men and you won't be a bad person and feel ashamed anymore.
Oh, and you won't be harming those women anymore by your actions (why can't men see the pain they cause women when they only hold their hands and not that of other men???).
And if you really wanted to help, you would be getting the Churchill blowup doll as well, to be fair. You have soooo much to learn.
Bennyboy
(10,440 posts)I have no man crushes. I've tried.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)He helps me deal day to day because I can look at him and smile and people don't think I am mind raping him.
demmiblue
(36,885 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)that tells you not to say stupid shit, are you missing that?
Lex
(34,108 posts)Some people you really have to wonder about.
JI7
(89,264 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Pointless OP.
Thread #11 I have trashed today.
JI7
(89,264 posts)you may think you are different but it's not really at all.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)fantasy and imagination are part of the human experience.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)I drew my popcorn within 1 sentence. That's a new record, Benny
intaglio
(8,170 posts)What tempted you to spawn this piece of ill thought, juvenile twaddle?
Everybody has fantasies but some of them are the fantasies of adults not the fantasies of kiddies who only want sex and only with beautiful people.
JI7
(89,264 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)If they are then they're insane. Full stop.
RC
(25,592 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)oldhippie
(3,249 posts)... for the last 24 hours?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)the same thing as trying to regulate your private thoughts? I don't see that at all.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)See it your way. I was just wondering.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)At most it seems to be "keep it to yourself." Which I don't find unreasonable.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)And it's creepy to start a thread about it for no reason.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)it;s freedumb.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)over the penis size thread haha.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)why???!!!!!
Jesus guys, these women deserve our support, not angst.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)about stupid men. I have tried, really. I've tried to think about guys who just don't get it--who don't get much at all--as I pleasure myself, but I just can't do it.
I need help and soon. I sent away for my . (fill in a random name).. . . blow up doll, but I'm afraid it won't make it for the holidays. Here I am relegated to fantasizing only about smart, decent guys with IQs over 110. Poor Ran Gavrieli till then, eh?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)...for what it's worth.
I also enjoyed her "Homecoming Queen's Got a Gun" and "Trapped in the Body of a White Girl."
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)MadrasT
(7,237 posts)xulamaude
(847 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Please, can we learn to laugh at ourselves a little?
Lex
(34,108 posts)is what it is. Over-share creepy.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Obviously, posted with the intention of getting a rise out of certain people -- and, lo and behold -- it WORKED.
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)though the sex wars here are tame compared to some ive seen.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)for their looks, in the context of a 'they're so ugly, it's outrageous for me to think of them while jacking off, that's why it's funny!' way?
You're defending this as reasonable humor for DU?
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)As I said in my other reply, BennyBoy obviously posted this to get a rise out of people, and by giving him what he wants, you're playing right into his hand. If these ridiculous posts were ignored, they would eventually go away.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)As I just said elsewhere, it's really sad that so many work so hard to ensure that these discussions are turned into a big mess. But that's their goal.
I get that ignoring this one individual's post would allow it to sink, but the societal message it carries needs to have a light shone on it, because ignoring the problem just ensures it continues. A lot of people are still not getting it, but things are improving I think.
Hope you're enjoying your holiday season Blue, I really gotta get off this thing
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I do take your point -- and I used to get ogled myself quite a bit back in my younger days. It's the boobs -- for some reason boobs make men stupid. (Maybe that's why they call them "boobs," I don't know.).
Anyway, one of the many perks of getting old is that that doesn't happen much anymore. It is a blessing.
I'm having a great holiday season. All the shopping and wrapping were done weeks ago, so it's just been baking cookies and planning Christmas dinner for us and the kids. Easy-peasy.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Jesus.
I think this whole thread is hilarious. It sure stirred up the "certain people."
Heidi
(58,237 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Heidi
(58,237 posts)I was rebutting your claim that the OP is humorous. I disagree. Nothing personal.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Heidi
(58,237 posts)I passed "sad" a while back.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Outrage all the time! It's terrifying to think that someone might be having fun.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Here's a swimsuit photo:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef01348641bc49970c-400wi
Wish her looks were the only thing to worry about with her.
Your implicit assumption that there is one measure of "attractive" that allows you to categorize one woman as attractive, and another as unattractive, and assume that everyone will take these assessments as self-evident, and to do so in such a public form without regard for the response, is just one of the things that makes you and your post so singularly unattractive.
But maybe you can still get away with the "sorry, I was drunk" excuse.
I too fantasize about women all the time. The difference is to know who wants to hear about it.
westerebus
(2,976 posts)A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)NOT
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)What exactly was the point about this?
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)So their response to a post about a video seeking to raise awareness about harassment is to view it as an attack on their own sexuality. For some reason, they can't distinguish physical attraction from predatory behavior. Don't ask me why.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)There's at least one, anyway http://www.waleg.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=1873&pid=16667
and photoshops...
http://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopoulos/the-25-most-absurd-hillary-clinton-photoshops
(scroll down to #13)
er.... and then there's this: http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=25939
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Response to Electric Monk (Reply #69)
Jesus Malverde This message was self-deleted by its author.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It had me in stitches
derby378
(30,252 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)I'm so sorry DU!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Congratulations!
Response to Bennyboy (Original post)
Post removed
madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Do we really need to know about this?
Or is this part of the thrill for you?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)It seems to be the only exlplaination.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)BKH70041
(961 posts)And after all the times he held up her poster with just one hand.
Squinch
(51,004 posts)See how that's not funny?
Trashing.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)badtoworse
(5,957 posts)And I thought I'd seen or heard of everything.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)sick shit.
and the boys with the crusty shorts are giggling about now.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)This shit has got to stop.
And that a jury allowed this shit to stand and people actually rec'd it is just fucking depressing.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Response to Whisp (Reply #105)
Post removed
Whisp
(24,096 posts)LOL.
I think you shaked yer head too fast and hard for too long.
hard and fast... oooo, baby.
baaaaaby.
yeh.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)BainsBane
(53,066 posts)daring to question privilege; imagining women to be equal to men. Such an outrage.
Oakenshield
(614 posts)Jury system actually worked for a change.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)way to go there, Studdly McPistol.
So even a woman of such stature as Thatcher was (even though I thought she was a horrible leader/person) is just some pokey holey thing to you?
W.T.F.
Why isn't this thread gone? What the Hell is wrong with some of you sickos?
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)will never, NEVER, accomplish even a quarter of what Senator Clinton and PM Thatcher achieved. But yet he gets to sit in judgement of their fuckability. As if they'll be crushed to learn that he would never 'do' them. He's apparently still waiting for Julia Roberts. As if.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)What a pathetic little boy.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)This place.
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)dflprincess
(28,082 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)El_Johns
(1,805 posts)sheshe2
(83,898 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Banhammers would be falling left and right this month.
UtahLib
(3,179 posts)After seeing all the garbage left standing over the last few days, I may just give it away.
Trashing this garbage.
De Leonist
(225 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)De Leonist
(225 posts)I trolled and was trolled.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Being unattractive troll has it's advantages, you just have to figure them out
Also if you could find me one of those signs "NO GIRLFRIEND WANTED". Often if you sometimes even glance at someone of the opposite because they are in your line of sight, they somehow figure they are in a size-me up game. When i was younger it was a bother but at age 55 i just don't give a damn what they think, just get the hell out of the way honey, you're wasting what time i have left on the earth
treestar
(82,383 posts)Which is what girls get called if they are the ones to show interest.
It's the old fashioned sexist rule that men get to chose and women are to be chosen from.
True, most guys who fit "ugly" should accept that and not figure they are going to get any positive reaction when they insist on asking good looking women out, because well, Billy Joel managed it.
You don't have to look like Johnny Depp, but maybe talking to the girl instead of ogling might be more useful.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Happy Holidays
boston bean
(36,223 posts)asserting your privilege in light of leering, staring, male gaze threads, using female democratic politicians as tools to explain what you like to jack off too.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,194 posts)Iris
(15,666 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)yardwork
(61,703 posts)That says a lot about DU and it isn't good. There are better places to be during the holidays and nicer people to be with. Happy holidays everyone. Over and out.
UtahLib
(3,179 posts)I can only hope that Admin is experiencing the same WTH moment so many DUers have expressed in some pretty disturbing threads over the last few days.
Happy Holidays, yardwork
Iris
(15,666 posts)Why would I donate money to a place that is no better than a Yahoo comments section?
boston bean
(36,223 posts)how offensive this post is, was certainly more offensive than the post itself about whacking off to Hillary or not cause she is too ugly... or something....
Something is wrong here on DU....
Happy Holidays to you!!! Enjoy, I know I will.. spending time with close family having a nice dinner, then a little gathering with extended family members a little later in the day!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)of multiple posts in your safe have group that accuse DU men of jerking off to various outrages. You don't seem to have any problems with those posts, and you're a host there.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)NOT.
worstexever
(265 posts)with real women.
LeftishBrit
(41,210 posts)board, right in the middle of the holidays at that?
In particular, I did NOT need to know about your Margaret Thatcher blow up doll!
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)retread
(3,763 posts)mom's basement, society at large should be fine. It is a little worrisome that you have gone public though.
antiquie
(4,299 posts)I thought it was satire.
http://www.waleg.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=1873&pid=16667#top_display_media
Marr
(20,317 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)There's such a thing as a Thatcher blow up doll????
Thanks for the holiday diversion
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine many creepy guys who can't get dates do that too.
randr
(12,414 posts)But I wish their was a Topic area just for guys lacking a healthy sex life.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)is it really something to be that proud of?
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Response to Bennyboy (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to Bennyboy (Original post)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.