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Folks Who Work In Tipped Jobs Would Like You To Spend A Minute Looking At Something (Original Post) eridani Dec 2013 OP
K&R redqueen Dec 2013 #1
my friend who considers me a grandma who is 22 roguevalley Dec 2013 #70
du rec Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #2
k&r for labor. n/t Laelth Dec 2013 #3
Sad reality Joel thakkar Dec 2013 #4
$15 IMO...n/t PasadenaTrudy Dec 2013 #11
K & R for workers! America needs a raise! mountain grammy Dec 2013 #5
that's going up to four and change the first of the year fizzgig Dec 2013 #43
Yes, thank you.. I had just heard that. mountain grammy Dec 2013 #52
Actually, my husband just informed me, the Colorado tipped mountain grammy Dec 2013 #53
motherfucking fizzgig Adam051188 Dec 2013 #69
Thank you for posting this theHandpuppet Dec 2013 #6
Speaking of that, my son got a settlement check from the Starbucks class action suit. Atman Dec 2013 #7
Beats a sharp stick in the eye, I say. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2013 #8
Tip settlement in MA re: pooling tips with supervisors Gormy Cuss Dec 2013 #15
Property tax bill for his car? OnlinePoker Dec 2013 #20
Yeah...they do that up here. Atman Dec 2013 #33
Is that in addition to the annual licence and registration fee? enlightenment Dec 2013 #38
Yes. License and registration fees go to the state. Atman Dec 2013 #49
Well, at least enlightenment Dec 2013 #54
When I lived in Mass, I think it was called the auto excise tax. Fla Dem Dec 2013 #61
Having worked with FLSA suits involving tips, I want to offer a thought Ash_F Dec 2013 #72
I agree pipoman Dec 2013 #9
Exactly etherealtruth Dec 2013 #13
NY has a very variable cost of living tabbycat31 Dec 2013 #14
Probably a very valid point. And more likely to see passage if crafted that way. MADem Dec 2013 #24
K&R.... daleanime Dec 2013 #10
K&R WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2013 #12
Not to sound selfish but... PrestonLocke Dec 2013 #16
HA!!! MADem Dec 2013 #28
And I would still tip even if server minimum wage was raised csziggy Dec 2013 #17
How would you like to rrneck Dec 2013 #18
Why not just end the tipped and training minimum wage? Omaha Steve Dec 2013 #19
I tip well (very well, in fact) because I relied on tips in my college years. MADem Dec 2013 #21
Restaurant workers are not the only ones who need tips. unionguy Dec 2013 #22
Yep. SomeGuyInEagan Dec 2013 #26
Thanks for the reference A Little Weird Dec 2013 #44
I always leave a few bucks in a hotel room--always. MADem Dec 2013 #27
I have never once seen a tip envelope in a hotel room. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #30
Housekeeping staff are customarily tipped one or more dollars per day, which you can just leave lunasun Dec 2013 #37
Good to know, and I am embarrassed I didn't know that. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #39
Also laundry_queen Dec 2013 #57
It's actually customary to leave between 2-5 dollars per day. AAO Dec 2013 #82
Yeah I was quoting Wiki Travel regarding Tipping in the USA - so it wasn't my custom lunasun Dec 2013 #83
I agree that they shouldn't go if they can't/won't tip. AAO Dec 2013 #84
welcome to DU. when I traveled, even though I always left the room clean and tidy, the staff niyad Dec 2013 #35
As a former 'housekeeper' I agree with everything you say. laundry_queen Dec 2013 #56
wow I can not beleive that leaving a tip for houskeeping in some sections of society lunasun Dec 2013 #62
Don't forget to tip the shuttle driver that takes you from the remote parking your correct terminal snooper2 Dec 2013 #59
yes they are to be tipped or let then know you can handle it yourself if you cannot afford a tip lunasun Dec 2013 #85
not only do I always leave tips in hotel rooms Skittles Dec 2013 #60
Tipping advice ... cash only SomeGuyInEagan Dec 2013 #23
Zero out the tip and sum up total amount lunasun Dec 2013 #41
Truly stunning how many "red" states are the worst offenders...of EVERYTHING! Moostache Dec 2013 #25
Former SLAVE STATES-Who TIPPED their house slaves ErikJ Dec 2013 #50
Montana is not as red as Idaho Mbrow Dec 2013 #58
I think tips are a double edged sword Major Nikon Dec 2013 #29
So many areas of the world there is no tipping -workers are paid by the establishment lunasun Dec 2013 #31
Yep... davidthegnome Dec 2013 #32
I work in a hotel too.. I say the same thing. glowing Dec 2013 #47
Government/Media davidthegnome Dec 2013 #73
I'm not sure that they are that aware of just how bad it really is for people. glowing Dec 2013 #80
Very thoughtful, very good post. davidthegnome Dec 2013 #81
k and r for labor, and some of the hardest-working people around. niyad Dec 2013 #34
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #36
Solidarity K&R nt TBF Dec 2013 #40
Kickage MrScorpio Dec 2013 #42
K/R Jack Rabbit Dec 2013 #45
Do you notice that the jobs where people get screwed on pay the most are predominately "pink jobs"? glowing Dec 2013 #46
kick & mstinamotorcity2 Dec 2013 #48
K&R! In Texas my ex-wife was waiting tables when we married in 1987 for THE SAME WAGE! Dustlawyer Dec 2013 #51
Kicking this. I've found that most tipped workers work damn hard for their meager compensation. calimary Dec 2013 #55
This article (source unknown to me) seems to suggest tipping may be in danger... Shandris Dec 2013 #63
The whole tipping system needs to be abolished. Jester Messiah Dec 2013 #64
Bingo! B Calm Dec 2013 #65
They should have a comparison with the local minimum wage Lordquinton Dec 2013 #66
k&r for visibility nt steve2470 Dec 2013 #67
kick Liberal_in_LA Dec 2013 #68
If we can't afford to tip our server... 99Forever Dec 2013 #71
Tipped workers are getting ripped off . . . and so are their customers. MrModerate Dec 2013 #74
Yes, yes, service employees Iwillnevergiveup Dec 2013 #75
In very fine dining restaurants you can make a bundle of money. But not always consistent. YOHABLO Dec 2013 #76
I've always tipped well, in rememberance of stories my mother told me about my grandma. pacalo Dec 2013 #77
Can we just say it? Food servers are modern day tipped slaves. ErikJ Dec 2013 #78
Livable Minimum Wage. Of course, people should still tip appropriately. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #79

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
70. my friend who considers me a grandma who is 22
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:16 PM
Dec 2013

works as a waitress in Georgia. She makes $2.13 an hour. She told me her check for three days .. all she was allowed to work was $21.00 for a week. Fuck this country if this doesn't change.

Joel thakkar

(363 posts)
4. Sad reality
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:33 AM
Dec 2013

that 1 in 7 people who bring our food in restaurant cannot afford to eat by themselves and rely on food stamps.

$10 is bare minimum...but we should high even higher...more like $12 per hour or something...

mountain grammy

(26,620 posts)
5. K & R for workers! America needs a raise!
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:43 AM
Dec 2013

Meantime, you should tip no less than 20% so order accordingly and always try to tip in cash. In Colorado, most servers are making around $2/hour without tips, a damn disgrace. If your server is having a bad day, maybe that's why.

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
43. that's going up to four and change the first of the year
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:42 PM
Dec 2013

Still despicably low, but we seem to be seeing a bit of movement here.

mountain grammy

(26,620 posts)
53. Actually, my husband just informed me, the Colorado tipped
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:29 PM
Dec 2013

minimum wage is over $4/hr and has been for a few years. If employees tips and wage together don't meet the minimum wage ($8 in 2014) the employer must make up the difference.
All that said, it's still poverty wages from profitable companies.

 

Adam051188

(711 posts)
69. motherfucking fizzgig
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 06:42 PM
Dec 2013

i need to see that movie again now. totally forgotten about. you are awesome.

Atman

(31,464 posts)
7. Speaking of that, my son got a settlement check from the Starbucks class action suit.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:54 AM
Dec 2013

It was in regards to their tipping policy. Not exactly sure of the exact nature of the suit, but he received a letter back in October. He's been home a few times since then, and always forgets to bring back his mail, because whatever still comes to the house in generally junk, credit card offers, free cigarette coupons, crap like that. The Starbucks envelope sat in the pile, too, unopened.

Well, he was home for Christmas week, and before he left we told him to please go through his mail before we threw it all away. We knew there was a property tax bill for his car, and an un-paid parking ticket notice from Boston. And the Starbucks letter. AND a postcard that just came from Starbucks saying that he was mailed a settlement in October and he only had until January 14th the cash it. So we found the letter...it was a check for $400! He only worked there for a few months! He was basically ignoring the letter because he assumed it was like all the Apple class action settlements we get, where they send you a coupon for $10 off a new Mac -- worthless. But $400?! Nice Christmas present as he was whining about needing to get new tires and pay that tax bill and parking ticket. $400. I doubt he made that much in tips in the first place during the short time he worked there!

OnlinePoker

(5,719 posts)
20. Property tax bill for his car?
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:37 PM
Dec 2013

I've never heard of that before. Nice check from Starbucks. Do you know if everybody got the same amount or was it prorated based on the time people worked there?

Atman

(31,464 posts)
33. Yeah...they do that up here.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:09 PM
Dec 2013

And Gormy got it right, MA settlement for tip-pooling. I have no idea if everyone else got the same amount.

As for "property tax," yeah...any motor vehicle, boat, etc, is considered "personal property" and is subject to a property tax. Last I checked, our fine state ranked #4 among the worst places in America for property taxes.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
38. Is that in addition to the annual licence and registration fee?
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:24 PM
Dec 2013

That's not very nice, if so. Awful, actually.

Atman

(31,464 posts)
49. Yes. License and registration fees go to the state.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:15 PM
Dec 2013

Property tax goes to the town. It really sucks.

On edit: registration is $80 and lasts for two years.

enlightenment

(8,830 posts)
54. Well, at least
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:36 PM
Dec 2013

the registration is not hideous, though the property tax probably more than makes up for it.

My state charges the tax and registration annually - based on weight and wheel base and the value of the vehicle. It can be unpleasant for folks with bigger, nicer cars (my five year old Scion just dropped under $200 and it's older, tiny, and worth virtually nothing at this point).

Fla Dem

(23,656 posts)
61. When I lived in Mass, I think it was called the auto excise tax.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:58 PM
Dec 2013

You paid a tax on the valuation of the car. As the car depreciated the tax also went down.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
72. Having worked with FLSA suits involving tips, I want to offer a thought
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:08 PM
Dec 2013

Odds are that he had that much or more stolen from him in a few months, so he is not really getting a present. Just being returned all or part of what was criminally taken from him.

Imagine if he had been stealing from the till for months. He would have been jailed and had a felony.

Wage theft is punishable by jail time too, but I have never seen a prosecutor take it that seriously.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
9. I agree
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:05 PM
Dec 2013

All states need a minimum wage hike. I don't necessarily believe it should be one size fits all. The cost of living in the central US is much lower than on the coasts. I can live pretty well on 2/3 the income I would need in California or New York..maybe 1/2.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
13. Exactly
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:17 PM
Dec 2013

Minimum wage needs to be closely associated with the cost of living. I would guess a state by state cost of living would be overly broad ... but, it would be a much better gauge than a national one.

tabbycat31

(6,336 posts)
14. NY has a very variable cost of living
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:17 PM
Dec 2013

In NYC and the metro area it is insanely high, but once you get upstate it's insanely low. I personally think that it should be at the county level.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
24. Probably a very valid point. And more likely to see passage if crafted that way.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:49 PM
Dec 2013

The rent in Portland Maine is probably four times the rent in Aroostook County, Maine....and the difference between the cost of living in Boston as compared to, say, western MA, is probably almost as stark.

A person who could make do in a civilized fashion on ten dollars an hour plus tips upstate would need at least fifteen in the city, I'm thinking.

PrestonLocke

(217 posts)
16. Not to sound selfish but...
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:25 PM
Dec 2013

Good tipping works both ways.

At the places my wife and I frequent, we always make sure to leave a good tip. In return we are always comped a few (or more!) drinks and the bartender/server/whomever gives us extra attention and great service! IMO the better service, attention and comped drinks are worth more than what we tipped. Super selfish indeed!

MADem

(135,425 posts)
28. HA!!!
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:00 PM
Dec 2013

I used to pick a relative up every FRI at Logan airport for about a year or so, and we'd go over to the North End, park in the overpriced garage, and go to a very nice restaurant close by for some "civilized" (i.e. Italian) food. Tipping well was just 2nd nature.

The restaurant was extremely popular, to the point that we'd frequently have to wait in a long line to even get in. After about two months of tipping well, the staff came to know and expect us, and when they'd send a guy out who would count the people in the line, he'd snatch us up and tell us that the proprietor had a table waiting for us, so we always got to jump the queue.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
17. And I would still tip even if server minimum wage was raised
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:26 PM
Dec 2013

In fact, I would LOVE it if servers got paid a living wage AND anything I tipped was really gravy on top for them. Then I would feel as though my tip was just barely making up for lousy pay and bad tippers.

I want the tip to be a bonus, not something they have to have just to survive.

I tip a minimum of 25-30%. At cheaper places, like Waffle House, I will often tip 80-100% (My standard order there is a BLT and coffee = $5.50 - I'll give the server a ten and not take any change). Just because the food is cheaper doesn't mean the servers don't work just as hard and they deserve as much for their time as servers at higher priced places.

I probably wouldn't change my tipping habits if the servers made $10 and hour instead of the pittance they make now - but it would mean more in terms of rewarding good service.

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
18. How would you like to
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:32 PM
Dec 2013

spend your days bringing food to people and knowing your income depends on how obsequious you are then going home to a hungry family?

Omaha Steve

(99,618 posts)
19. Why not just end the tipped and training minimum wage?
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:35 PM
Dec 2013

Some states still have a lower training wage too.

OS

MADem

(135,425 posts)
21. I tip well (very well, in fact) because I relied on tips in my college years.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:45 PM
Dec 2013

I sometimes get chased out the door by my servers who thank me for the consideration. I don't eat out all that often, but when I do, I can't see being a skinflint about it.

I always leave cash, and zero out the tab if I pay with a card (that's rare, too), and I always hand the bill and money directly to the server--I will even wait to waylay them. I don't want anyone else getting their dough.

If we're to be fair about it, and pay people a minimum wage that has some parity with the good ole' days, that amount should be fifteen bucks; maybe even as high as twenty or twenty two.

Granted, we all live a little differently now; we aren't personal energy hogs that "light up the neighborhood" or "heat/cool the great outdoors" (picture any old annoyed parent saying these things while turning off lights and closing doors/windows) but that stuff costs way more, too. Clothing is cheaper, because it's crappier and more disposable, but food is way more expensive, unless one prepares it from scratch. The money just doesn't stretch quite as far as it used to...!

unionguy

(6 posts)
22. Restaurant workers are not the only ones who need tips.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:46 PM
Dec 2013

Most people would never walk out of a restaurant without leaving at least a few bucks on the table for the server, to pick up a few plates. What I find amazing is many of those same people will then go back to a motel or hotel and totally trash out a room. I'm talking puke every where, food ground into the rugs, etc. There are tip envelopes for the house keepers in every room. 9 times out of 10 there is nothing in them. These people (around my area) make maybe $8.00 an hour, and hardly ever get a 40 hr week. They get on average 30 min. to clean these rooms, singles or suites. They are run ragged and mostly not appreciated. This is by no means everyone. There are a few tippers out there and they are cherished by the house keepers . They clean your shit out of the bathroom and pick up the garbage you throw on the floor. LEAVE A TIP next time you travel.

SomeGuyInEagan

(1,515 posts)
26. Yep.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:52 PM
Dec 2013

An interesting read is "Keep the Change: A Clueless Tipper's Quest to Become the Guru of the Gratuity" by Steve Dublianca.

LOTS of people in the service industry rely on tips and his book covers many of those areas as well as how businesses deal with tipping.

A Little Weird

(1,754 posts)
44. Thanks for the reference
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:44 PM
Dec 2013

I will look for the book. Other than waitresses and bartenders, I don't really know who should normally be tipped. Someone told me recently that you were supposed to tip the hairdresser - I had no idea.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
27. I always leave a few bucks in a hotel room--always.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:54 PM
Dec 2013

AND...I clean up after myself. It's just 2nd nature with me.

Put all the used towels in the sink, all the garbage in one place (a sack if they've/I've got one) and put everything--phone, remote, What-To-Do magazines, About This Hotel books, etc., back where I found it.

And I do this even in places where there are no tip envelopes.

No need to play Lord of the Manor, IMO. It's a damn room to sleep in, nothing more.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
30. I have never once seen a tip envelope in a hotel room.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:06 PM
Dec 2013

I will look more carefully in the future.

That said, I police my shit when I un-ass a hotel room. I leave it like I found it, minus the linens, which I put in a very neat pile, and consumable sundries that go in the trash, and all trash in a single, central can.

And definitely no puke.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
37. Housekeeping staff are customarily tipped one or more dollars per day, which you can just leave
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:23 PM
Dec 2013

on a table .
Also if you are staying more than one night to leave it out per day.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
57. Also
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:22 PM
Dec 2013

It's important to make to clear that it's a tip for the housekeeper. Many times at the hotel I worked at, there would be change left on the table for us but unless it was made clear that it was a tip, we were made to put it in the lost in found if it was over $1. If the people weren't checking out and were staying in the room for a week or so we weren't allowed to touch anything at all, even if it 'looked' like it might be a tip. There had to be a note or something. Someone upthread posted that their are sometimes tip envelopes so that would make it clear, but not all hotels have them. A quick note alongside the money on the table makes it clear for everyone.

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
82. It's actually customary to leave between 2-5 dollars per day.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 10:48 AM
Dec 2013

I will leave $5 per day (and I've hardly ever NOT seen an envelope in my room), and servers %25-30 tip, and bartenders I will leave $1-3 per drink depending on the price of the drink.

I realize many people can't afford to be that generous, but since I am, I like to spread it around. I gave my favorite bartender $100 for XMAS. I believe strongly that it is an obligation of the better-off to help out the worse-off. That is also the foundation of my political thought.

I guess that's why I'm a bleeding heart liberal!

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
83. Yeah I was quoting Wiki Travel regarding Tipping in the USA - so it wasn't my custom
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 01:48 PM
Dec 2013

just something to show it is a practice in the US

I leave $3-$4/day in a room seems about right and I am not well off
It is just the tipping has always been custom,, never give it a thought , & surprised it is being dropped/not practiced
Guessing owners nowadays are not making up the difference.............

Call me mean but imo you cant afford to be served in some places if you can not afford to tip the servers**. It is part of the cost imo
I always budget that in my expenses and would not stiff just to get an experience I would just not do it then

**(unless it was a serious /unavoidable reason for needing a service I can not tip for or there is no other option available to the person )
Disabled needs taxi to store I can understand no tip
Suit needs taxi to meeting I can not understand no tip

That is just me be judgemental again and I am not for tipping as much as fair wages to replace the custom but until then....

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
84. I agree that they shouldn't go if they can't/won't tip.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 06:20 PM
Dec 2013

One solution is to charge an 18% gratuity to every check (as some restaurants already do), and take the servers out of need to beg for their wages. Let them make a decent wage and let them do their jobs.

niyad

(113,284 posts)
35. welcome to DU. when I traveled, even though I always left the room clean and tidy, the staff
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:16 PM
Dec 2013

always got a tip.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
56. As a former 'housekeeper' I agree with everything you say.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:19 PM
Dec 2013

I agree about being run ragged - we had 20 min a room, plus we were responsible for keeping the halls and meeting areas clean. And many times, especially on holidays, people took their time checking out so we would have barely any rooms to clean in the morning and then we'd have to clean almost all of them in the afternoon, which meant the time per room was not much...so many times we would work late because of late check outs.

I could tell horror stories about the state of rooms too. It was nasty. We didn't have tip envelopes though. We very, very rarely got tips. The only people I remember tipping us were the Japanese tourists who would leave us a loonie (Cdn dollar) under every pillow. We absolutely loved them and our supervisors would try and rotate the rooms amongst the housekeepers so everyone would get a chance to clean their rooms and get tips. We did have a lost and found for items we found left behind in rooms that if after 120 days was unclaimed, we got to keep whatever it was we found. That was usually the most for 'tips' that we ever received.



lunasun

(21,646 posts)
62. wow I can not beleive that leaving a tip for houskeeping in some sections of society
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:05 PM
Dec 2013

has now been left out or not practiced.
It is an American custom,... or was ...of course so much has changed .
We used to say we welcome immigrants to our shores too
Do folks tip for handling luggage,taxi or room service ? I hope so but it is a free country so each to their own ways I guess
http://wikitravel.org/en/Tipping#North_America

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
59. Don't forget to tip the shuttle driver that takes you from the remote parking your correct terminal
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:43 PM
Dec 2013

The dude doesn't have to get up and help you get your overfilled bags off the bus

Skittles

(153,160 posts)
60. not only do I always leave tips in hotel rooms
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:57 PM
Dec 2013

when it's extended stay (like for work TDY) I enclose the tip in a personal thank you card

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
41. Zero out the tip and sum up total amount
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:33 PM
Dec 2013

Some places have been caught adding $ as tips and changing a different total amount charged
It is illegal and they are probably thinking the person was a cheap SOB not someone who paid a cash tip - so beware and fill out signed tab if you are somewhere not familiar

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
25. Truly stunning how many "red" states are the worst offenders...of EVERYTHING!
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:50 PM
Dec 2013

With the exception of Montana (and New Jersey...hmmm, what party is Chris Christie again?), damn near everyone of the worst states for poverty of tipped workers is usually to solidly GOP across the board. There was no doubt about their policies hurting most people, but there's a special cruelty at the heart of the modern conservative that this brings into specific relief.

Imagine a world where the Democrats managed to actually hold true to their core beliefs and principles AND managed their messaging as effectively as the GOP....makes me want to weep just thinking about it...

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
50. Former SLAVE STATES-Who TIPPED their house slaves
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:17 PM
Dec 2013

to keep them from killing them and for better service. They couldnt beat their house slaves like they did the field slaves so they gave them the carrot (tips). Tipping is nothing but saying "Youre a good slave".

Mbrow

(1,090 posts)
58. Montana is not as red as Idaho
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:32 PM
Dec 2013

it's my understanding from talking to friends that the owners don't have to let you keep the tips and still get to pay the min wage of 3 dollars and change. It's the same for Ag workers.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
29. I think tips are a double edged sword
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:01 PM
Dec 2013

I always tip quite well and at a minimum, these are the guidelines I go by. However, I think tipping creates an atmosphere where some will support those who receive tips and some won't either through ignorance or apathy. In every other well developed country I've traveled, except for Canada, tipping is nowhere near as prevalent and I don't think it's coincidence that those who work in the service industry are much better compensated in pay and benefits relative to other workers compared to the US.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
31. So many areas of the world there is no tipping -workers are paid by the establishment
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:08 PM
Dec 2013

Most of Asia, lots of Europe no tipping and you get the true cost of food - prepared and served cost upfront

I have seen wealthy people here ask for all kinds extra service then remind who ever is the payer to only pay 15% of the bill before the taxes are added that is cheap but these servers are not real people to those folks, so they never think about how the server's life is beyond serving them.

Also, we have seen even some DU posts that non tippers exist not necessarily for bad service but vengeance to a lifestyle or ethnic background.

Why not a real wage and not the whim of patrons?
Oh yeah bizness benefits that is why

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
32. Yep...
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:08 PM
Dec 2013

Doesn't it suck to be handed a three dollar tip for a fifty dollar meal? Happens all the time. You run your ass off to make sure everyone is served and happy, and you close up your shift at night having made like 20 bucks for eight hours of work. Plus whatever small hourly compensation your employer provides (is forced to provide). I've worked for several restaurants, generally as a dish-washer rather than as a server. I knew many waitresses though, and waiters - for the most part, business is not good enough for them to make much money. The economy isn't good enough, either. Everyone is poorer now, it seems to me, than they were in my youth. People used to spend more money, used to be more generous, up here.

The closures of our base (Loring Air-force, in Northern Maine)... oh, fifteen years ago or so, led to the closures of many local businesses, the loss of thousands of jobs. What little opportunity we have up here tends to be service jobs. The pay isn't very good, your feet are going to hurt like hell, and a lot of people are going to be mean and unpleasant and expect you to be grateful for a three dollar tip. Even so, you are expected to smile, provide the utmost best service, wink and flirt and generally do whatever the hell your boss tells you to - because, they will remind you, you can be easily replaced.

It doesn't suck quite as bad for me, now being a hotel front desk clerk, I make eight dollars an hour regardless of how busy we are. With this, I can afford to pay for my car, for gas, and a little (very little) more. Some times the waitresses will make out great, like a hundred, or two hundred dollar night - but these are very rare. I often end up earning more in a week than they do, and I am not forced to work half as hard.

Lousy damned economy - but what makes it even worse are the people who can afford to be generous, and simply aren't. If your server is decent, and doesn't screw things up too badly... I think you have an obligation to offer a fair tip. Fair, to most, is 20%. For really good service, perhaps as high as 30. Good luck getting it though.

My advice is to not be a waitress or waiter. Don't work in the service industry - it sucks. Seduce a rich man or woman, as the case may be, and get them to provide for you.

 

glowing

(12,233 posts)
47. I work in a hotel too.. I say the same thing.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:07 PM
Dec 2013

If I knew then what I know now, I would have used my young body and looks, hooked someone wealthy, and allow a divorce/ money/ love to come after popping out a couple of kids. Better to have some alimony and child support and a home paid for, rather than struggle like crazy, barely see the man I fell in live with and married, and worry every day some other shoe will hit me in the head.

Something has to give!!! If it continues this way, I can't see how people won't be in the streets? Most won't have the option of anything different; the streets will be their new homes. Things have got to ease up for all people around the world. The pot is about to boil... We can all feel the simmering and tension... Just a tad but more heat, and it could become really chaotic quickly.

There's a reason Duck Dynasty BS starts such and tense conversation among people. There's a reason people are trampling others in a Christmas sale line. There's a reason that more and more people are just a bit more unpleasant every year to one another. The tension is sky high!

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
73. Government/Media
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 12:15 AM
Dec 2013

As high as tensions are, as hard as things are right now, there are still a great many people that are more or less... glued to the way things are. They have a routine in their lives - and as long as it is permitted to go on unaltered, they are not likely to take to the streets. It's almost as if we all have a form of OCD. Working for far less than we're worth, but telling ourselves... "This could be worse, I could be unemployed/more poor/starving... I'd better kiss my boss's/customer's ass so I can keep my job."

I think that that boiling pot you mentioned will only overflow when something happens that is dramatic enough to force us to step outside out of comfort zones. It's actually getting close to it here in Northern Maine. The roads on average, have become so poor (especially after the governor cut the hell out of the budget for the town - and for snow removal) that a lot of people are barely able to get around. Snow tires - with studs, are your best bet, but even then it can be worth your life to drive for any length of time on these roads on a winter night. If this gets any worse, the many, many commuters up here will be forced to stay home.

I drive thirty miles to and from work - and know a lot of people that drive more. I am an agnostic - yet when I drive on these roads at night, I find myself mumbling the Catholic prayers my mother taught me as a boy. It's scary. Poor visibility, drivers that really don't pay attention.. and if that's enough, freezing rain, snow, and the damned moose.

Really wish I could afford to move some place warmer, there might be different risks that would be just as bad, but I'd be able to feel my feet, which would be nice.

My own local issues aside - I think you're right about the tension, and the Duck Dynasty BS. I'm just not sure that anything short of a zombie apocalypse is going to make us all mad enough to do something. As long as have television, CNN, fox, ABC, NBC... whatever cheap knockoff of survivor or American Idol they come up with next... the internet, gaming systems, kindles, nooks, iphones, ipods, ipads... we have so many wonderful toys to distract us from how bad things are.

Our politicians very much want to maintain the status quo. It keeps them wealthy. I think this is why things are getting so crazy politically - they're scared, they can sense that one good shove would push us all over the edge. What the results of that would be though... revolution is scary to anyone who has studied history.

 

glowing

(12,233 posts)
80. I'm not sure that they are that aware of just how bad it really is for people.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 07:29 AM
Dec 2013

They are in DC, and as such, the chatter around the country club or parties is not about how poor rural communities are getting or just how horrific the struggle to survive within cities has become.

They really don't understand that people are literally counting their nickels and domes, and without easy credit, homes to pull equity out of, or even 401k's to borrow against, people are stuck.

It was already bad during the Bush years. People's incomes were stemmed. During 2007/ 08, the Dem candidates had already been taking about how the avg family had lost about $2000 in economic buying power, while manufacturing was being shuttled overseas and jobs left were of the low wage, customer service variety. And at that point, the housing boom was one of the only items keeping people employed, whether is was constructing new homes: condos, real estate, mortgage brokers, banks, and investors. When that collapsed, a large portion of our economy was harmed and it won't even begin to recover unless people are allowed to write down the principal of their underwater homes.

Like many in FL, my husband and I are in and underwater home. The value probably shouldn't be as low as it is, however, all new homes sales in our neighborhood have been foreclosures or quick sales. It's forced down the value of our home. Before the boom (out of control prices) and then bust, we would be looking at selling our current small 2bd/ 1bath starter home to a newlywed couple or elderly couple wanting to downsize their upkeep, and moving into a larger home to accommodate our needs. But we are stuck. We are paying too much on our home, but better to have our home that gives us a sense of pleasure and neighbors that are our friends and our son's playmates. Plus, we live in a good school zone... That's important in FL. But reality is, we would be better off financially to allow the home to "bankrupt" itself they my husband, dump any of his debts, and rent for half the price we pay on the mortgage. At some point, if the don't get a more progressive house in DC and a state that leans blue between 2014 and 2016, then we will probably have to make a financial decision to dump the property, save money, and rebuild our credit once we are interest free.

As far as the whole Duck Dynasty, Bashir, or now MHP for pointing out the absurdity of the Romney klan having adopted a token black baby, and the right-wing racists going nutsy over the contrived controversy, is just another corporate, spoonfed trap to keep people who are in the same financial boat, at each other's throats.

Sadly, so many on the right/ tea party/ small town/ undereducated white masses, have been lied to for so long, they can't see who is keeping them from achieving that proverbial "American Dream". They are lashing out at the wrong people, they are told "Obummer and Moochelle" are the one's who are holding them back. (And honestly it's a bit disconcerting when they are posting their hate all over the Internet with such inconsistencies, lies, distortions of reality, bitter rage, fear, and scary anger, that trying to have a real life, factual discussion with these folks, is impossible).

The fact that they can't understand why many of us can see the irony of a white, wealthy Mormon family adopting an African-American child OR that seeing the one "token minority" among a sea of white is emblematic of the Teapublican party as a whole, and is exactly the sheer, utter hypocrisy we find within these people as a whole.

Maybe worse are the remarks and posts from these CONservatives about the adoption of this baby... Calling MHP a racist, saying that the baby is lucky that the Romeny family chose to adopt her/ him(?) and say it in a way like "the colored child is lucky to have such a good, Christian family-man in its life" (they don't even see their posts as racist thinking)...

Anyway, long birdwalk around that, but the controversy over something someone said, taken out of context, trying to falsely equate MHP with Duck Dynasty patriarch, having other news networks jump into the fray, and allowing the racist cockroaches to run around freely from under the rock they once say under, is just feeding the the venom. I truly feel that the corporate, Wall St, investor class has created a monster. They have been using division and "other" to divide us for so long, and with the election of the first black president, coupled with the economy nose-diving, and Palin coming out of the Dominionist sext of "Christianity" to instill righteous racism and a feeling of persecution for being "Godly" and white, that we have our simmering pot right on the brink.

Seriously, the TeaParty politicians shutdown the Govt over the ACA going into effect. They wrote a budget that harms so many people, between their cost cutting maneuvers for the social safety net, long term unemployment being cut, and refusing to create jobs to fix the infrastructure and progress as leaders in anything but incarceration and wealth inequality, they have started to wake up people who hadn't previously thought much about politics or govt.

These rightwing, looney toons have finally gone far enough that my sister in law is finally noticing just who it is that is at fault for harming Americans. Her husband is in the army. They are in a "career mode" with her husband being in. She correctly named Paul Ryan as the jack ass who has thrown retirement benefits for the military personnel under the bus, along with having the families have to pay for tri-care.

As it is, there are many families who are in the service who are receiving food stamps. Her family is "lucky" that she has a job where she works at home, otherwise, they would be financially destitute. When one of the family members is serving abroad, it takes a toll on the family and makes it very hard for the other family member to have a job (many service families are stationed away from family and the cost of daycare for kids would be the equivalent, in many cases, to a take home paycheck for the spouse). Like she said, her husband's body is wrecked from his service. He's had a couple of surgeries and is about to have another. His back is a mess, one foot has been operated on and another is scheduled for sometime this year. By the time he would retire from military service, he will be limited on what types of jobs he could attempt at doing. The retirement benefits are necessary for his service. The idea that the govt should change the benefit structure and essentially a job contract to save a couple of bucks so that some other wealthy asshole can have another tax break is disgusting... Or that after retiring from a full, life commitment to the military, that they have a potential to retire again from the private sector and have benefits from that is just wrong. We already know how shitty the private market treats it's employees.

The country is a mess. I'm hoping there's enough people who are hurting from the Republicans BS that in 2014 we will see more Sanders and Warrens running for election and winning seats. Let's face it, our third way, corporate, blue dog Dems are just as bad for us, financially, as many Republicans.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
81. Very thoughtful, very good post.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 09:25 AM
Dec 2013

My Father has dedicated a great part of his life to working for Veterans, he was instrumental in building our local veterans clinic. Having narrowly missed being drafted back during Vietnam, he was always well aware of how much they had to sacrifice. When I was a young boy, I once asked him why he didn't join the Marines like Grandpa did. My Grandfather, at 17, all of 5'4, 145 pounds, decided he wanted to be a Marine and fight the Nazis... even though he was too short, he lied about his age, and because the Marines needed men very badly, they took him. He ended up becoming a war hero of sorts. Pictures in magazines and such, was really a hell of a man.

What my Father told me though, was that he didn't believe we had any business in Vietnam. What he didn't tell me, but I later discovered for myself, is that he had, and has, an amazing dedication to and compassion for those returning from war, whether he believes in the war or not, he believes in the people fighting them. He did manage to convince me not to join up when I was 19, which is probably a good thing, as I suspect I would have been a terrible soldier. I've always been too anti-authority.

You're right about our Country being a mess, you're right about this third way bull shit, too. I don't know what the real solution is, there are lots of good ideas out there, but not enough... hmm, unity, to begin to implement them. Anything we want done will require struggling against not just the republicans and the tea party, but the third way Dems, too. While liberals overall may outnumber these groups, liberal voters are heavily outnumbered by them.

These assholes like Paul Ryan going after military retirement benefits... it infuriates me. These retired military vets have given so much, sacrificed so much, faced so much for their Country... and the Republicans, despite their boasts of being the military-friendly party, are very eager to throw them under the bus once they have retired. They deserve so much better than we have given them.

Yes, we need more like Sanders and Warren. Should either of them run for President, they already have my vote - and for once, I wouldn't have to grimace or hold my nose while voting.

Response to eridani (Original post)

 

glowing

(12,233 posts)
46. Do you notice that the jobs where people get screwed on pay the most are predominately "pink jobs"?
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:49 PM
Dec 2013

Teachers and their unions.. Total screwing of money, always training, and always told they don't know how to do their jobs. Nursing, running around on their feet for 12 hrs, seeing the patients, ainistering drugs, keeping a general eye on the patients care, yet they make so much less than the Dr... And tend to be treated as inferior people by the Dr staff.

These are just a couple off the top of my head, but if these two jobs were held by mainly men, the pay would be much more, the union probably wouldn't be as easy to bust, and defianately blaming a child's learning all upon the school, when there are so many factors (especially economics of the family the child is living in) that account for besides reading and writing.

And at the end of the day, less pay brought home by a woman is less money for a families well being and ability to move up on an economic ladder.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
51. K&R! In Texas my ex-wife was waiting tables when we married in 1987 for THE SAME WAGE!
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 02:19 PM
Dec 2013

We are grandparents X 3 now and it is still the same! It is way past time people!

calimary

(81,238 posts)
55. Kicking this. I've found that most tipped workers work damn hard for their meager compensation.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 03:18 PM
Dec 2013

Many are on their feet all day long, dealing with customers who are cantankerous and impatient and distracted and self-involved. And, when they don't tip or leave just a few stray coins, DAMN FUCKING SELFISH CHEAPSKATES!!!!!!!

Hey, sorry to sound like such a hard-ass, but I can remember when I waited tables through college at the campus coffee house. I also was charged with managing the place. Both were hard jobs. I ran my legs off for people who came in for coffee and bagels and the live music we served. Many were parents of other students. Many of them were clearly well-heeled. More than once I had tables-full of very demanding people who ran me ragged, ordering everything, double helpings, extra this, more of that, sat there all evening, and left nothing. Or maybe if I was lucky, they'd leave a few scattered coins on the table. I never forgot that. It made me appreciate servers bigtime! Those folks work damn hard!!!!

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
63. This article (source unknown to me) seems to suggest tipping may be in danger...
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:13 PM
Dec 2013

...this year. I'm not sure how accurate that may be, but it's the suggestion of the article.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/the-end-of-tipping-analysts-predict-tipping-to-face-increased-scrutiny-in-2014-1.1610822

As a former server myself, I see it as a two-edged sword. There would be some nights where I wouldn't even make minimum wage after tips ($5.25 at the time, although $2.13 was the minimum 'check' amount per hour in Indiana). Conversely, there would be nights where I'd make more than specialized labor workers ($30+/hr). Serving is a boom/bust cycle, and most servers that I knew were well aware of it. I will note that this was before the full rise of the 'service economy', so there was a -bit- more choice in jobs at the time and that this may well have changed since then. But over the course of a month, I would average well above the minimum wage - not-quite-but-almost triple it, in fact. The end of tipping would bring that average WAY down for a lot of servers.

Conversely, there is no doubt that there are people who get the shaft in tips, particulary LGBT and non-white workers (unless they're highly attractive, which offsets any minus). These people would likely see an increase in overall salary depending on where the states put it. Of course, keeping that part in mind, I doubt most of them in my red state would be very pleased.

So...I'm ambivalent.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
64. The whole tipping system needs to be abolished.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:38 PM
Dec 2013

It's just an excuse for business to pay starvation wages.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
66. They should have a comparison with the local minimum wage
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 05:17 PM
Dec 2013

I think it's 14 states that don't separate tipped from non tipped, which creates a false separation in labor.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
71. If we can't afford to tip our server...
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:34 PM
Dec 2013

... we can't afford to go out to eat. 20% minimum. These people work their tails off and deserve it.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
74. Tipped workers are getting ripped off . . . and so are their customers.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 12:33 AM
Dec 2013

The notion that the owner of a business uses guilt to induce customers to volunteer the largest portion of an employee's compensation is flat-out nuts.

I currently live in a place where there is no tipping. It's just not done.

Instead, restaurant workers are paid a living wage (around USD 20/hour for a couple of years of experience, and going up from there). Also, workers enjoy a national single-payer health system, which relieves both restaurateur and employee of significant costs.

The per-plate prices are quite high (maybe 50% higher than equivalent urban US establishments), but the service is just fine. No one believes that tipping has any effect on quality of service.

(As a side note, most full-time jobs pay equitable wages, and yes, prices for everything are higher than the US. The trade-offs make it more than worth it.)

It's a much better system. Restaurant workers and their customers in the US should be agitating for the abolishment of tipping -- and its replacement with a living wage.

And ultimately, that would extend to all tipped workers.

Frankly, it's no more than the respect that capital owes labor.

Iwillnevergiveup

(9,298 posts)
75. Yes, yes, service employees
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 12:36 AM
Dec 2013

have long been screwn. The worst I've seen is at car washes. These guys climbing ladders to reach the tops of monster SUV's, working in unshaded areas, spending 20-30 minutes of certain vehicles of picky customers - walking away with $1.00. I've found women are much better tippers at car washes - it's worth at least $5 to me. Even if the job isn't perfect, it's always a helluva lot better than I could do.

Love, love the point above about leaving a $5 tip for a $5 meal!

In solidarity with all (mostly underpaid) workers.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
76. In very fine dining restaurants you can make a bundle of money. But not always consistent.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 01:18 AM
Dec 2013

The classier the place the higher the demands .. but guests are usually business people, athletes, and celebrities; people who tip generously. But what many don't know is that your waiter has to tip out his help as well, the assistant, the bartender, and usually a food runner. And also, I have known waiters to tip the maitre d', under the table sort of speak, ... to get ''quality seating''. That means the ''high rollers'' as we called them .. you know, the ''suits''. It's a very ''I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine'' sort of thing. I refused to pay off the maitre d', so I lost out quite a bit. Ah, but I did have health insurance which I paid out of that $2.13 an hour; sometimes having to end up owing the restaurant money because my hourly would not cover the $200 a month premium they automatically took out. I threw in my apron about 10 years ago .. after trying to live as a waiter for 25 years. Too much stress ...whew.

pacalo

(24,721 posts)
77. I've always tipped well, in rememberance of stories my mother told me about my grandma.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 03:12 AM
Dec 2013

Grandma became a widow at a very young age with three school-age children to support. She had no choice but to work on her feet, which were achy & swollen after each work day. It took a toll on her health. I think of her whenever I tip servers. I think they deserve much higher wages, too.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
78. Can we just say it? Food servers are modern day tipped slaves.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 04:03 AM
Dec 2013

Just like the Old South plantation owners had. Some things never change.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
79. Livable Minimum Wage. Of course, people should still tip appropriately.
Tue Dec 31, 2013, 04:06 AM
Dec 2013

Some folks are looking for any excuse not to leave a tip, in my experience.

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