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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is how far the NSA has fallen:
http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/this-is-how-far-the-nsa-has-fallen/"The tech industry now considers the National Security Agency to be a threat, and a bunch of malicious hackers. This is a direct quote from Apple, after they found out that the NSA has been secretly hacking our iPhones. Our tech industry now classes a government agency as being equivalent to spies, thieves, anarchist nutjobs and other such scumbuckets.
This writer agrees, and since he is writing this post on a iPhone, he offers this cheery message to the NSA: F*** the lot of you, in whatever manner would be the least pleasant and most painful. F*** you, NSA, and the computer you rode in on.
The NSA took the laws they got from the Bushistas and ran like Forrest Gump, with no one holding up a sign saying stop. And now they are hated, reviled, and have been revealed to be hurting our nation instead of protecting it.
The laws that have allowed the NSA to become an enemy of the American people need changed, of course; the reason they were able to do all of this stems from the early Oughts when an Administration with no respect for the Constitution ran roughshod over the rule of law. Its long past time to correct those many wrongs.
Meanwhile, if Apple thinks the NSA is a load of malicious hackers, youd be well advised to pay attention. The NSA is now our enemy. And for an agency of the federal government to have descended to such a lowly and despicable status is a tragedy worthy of Sophocles."
Source material at the link.
villager
(26,001 posts)Hopefully we'll get a Constitutional Scholar in the White House someday, who will make it a priority to correct these obvious abuses!
riqster
(13,986 posts)And judges to deal with the laws as they are supposed to.
villager
(26,001 posts)Hopefully, the Executive will use its bully pulpit in that regard...
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)was doing 100 years ago. Only the technology has improved to the point that it is not possible to have virtually 100% electronic surveillance.
This would be Hoover's idea of heaven.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Hoover used his information regularly to blackmail elected officials. We may not have conclusive evidence that the NSA is behaving likewise, but only a fool would assume it could not happen.
Remember all the gnashing of teeth about the risk of JFK's affairs making him vulnerable to blackmail? Well the potential is 10,000 times greater now. And it is not just about whether an elected official leads a virtuous life. The NSA and CIA are rogue operations. They are accountable to nobody. They play by nobody else's rules. They are in a position to put any President over the barrel, with threats to mess up any of the goals the President might want to accomplish, or to create world instability that will result in a loss in the next election.
This ain't beanbags.
Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)law enforcement, corporate executives, journalists, etc. etc. etc. the list is endless as to who the NSA can put over the barrel.
Remember all the gnashing of teeth about the risk of JFK's affairs making him vulnerable to blackmail? Well the potential is 10,000 times greater now. And it is not just about whether an elected official leads a virtuous life. The NSA and CIA are rogue operations. They are accountable to nobody. They play by nobody else's rules. They are in a position to put any President over the barrel, with threats to mess up any of the goals the President might want to accomplish, or to create world instability that will result in a loss in the next election.
Logical
(22,457 posts)G_j
(40,367 posts)just don't protest wars, Monsanto, Keystone, don't join Greenpeace, Code Pink, etc., etc., etc..
riqster
(13,986 posts)And monitored constantly while in there.
Oh yes, so very safe...
Rampant Government Secrecy and Democracy can not co-exist.
Persecution of Whistle Blowers and Democracy can not co-exist.
Government surveillance of the citizenry and Democracy can not co-exist.
Secret Laws/Secret Courts and Democracy can not co-exist.
Our Democracy depends on an informed electorate.
riqster
(13,986 posts)"Uninformed electorate". A small change in spelling, a huge difference for our nation.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)This is truly significant....
riqster
(13,986 posts)Piss on the populace, that's one thing. But they have pissed on the plutocrats.
Shit's gonna get real.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)The individual seems almost lost in the current discussion, but I'll take the opportunity to recommend self-empowerment through free and open source software:
Free Software Foundation
Debian Linux
Ubuntu Linux
Linux Mint
Mageia Linux
riqster
(13,986 posts)BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)It's an excellent collection of (where possible) open source alternatives to PRISM companies, their products and services.
For Apple, unfortunately, it says "No alternative"...
LiberalArkie
(15,715 posts)They make a lot of contributions to Linux.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)...that everyone is free to inspect before using....
SELinux
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)because their quarterly profits will go to shit once it comes out that they were business partners with the NSA...
riqster
(13,986 posts)European business partners are doing the kicking-they have stringent privacy laws over there, and due to the NSA, American tech firms are not able to guarantee compliance.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)who's figured that out.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)according to the actual paper released. In fact, the paper looks like a sales proposal, not even an actual project.
Then of course there is the slight problem of access to the phones.
More crap from the Obama hating criminal in Russia and his helpers.
JEB
(4,748 posts)Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)piece changes fiction to truth. Anyone who reads the original paper knows that it is from 2008 (pre President Obama), that it had not actually been developed, and that access to the device would be required to install the software (once software actually existed).
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)You may wish to change it to something more appropriate to avoid confusion.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)as a hint, it is not synonymous with Libertarian, anarchist, or conspiracy theorist. Since Progressives actually want government to help advance progress, they are unlikely to look for fictitious reasons to justify hating their own government.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Wow - you're right! I thought it meant something entirely different.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)whatever it was.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)does not warrant otherwise. Classic deflection designed to hijack discussion away from the abuses by the NSA toward squabbles over Snowden's hypothetical motivations.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)but I get it, attacking Snowden-Greenwald or Libertarian dishonest hype is not allowed. Get a grip.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)I wrote about the tech industry and the populace hating the NSA for what they did after the Bushies made "presumed innocent" an inapplicable doctrine WRT to these laws.
Not a peep from me about hating Obama, or any technical claims.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)and now you are claiming not only that Apple hates the NSA but that the tech industry and the populace (of someplace) hate the NSA.
I'm sure you do, but you are not the tech industry or the populace.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)They knew it all along. How could they NOT know? They're just trying to cover their asses so the fanboys won't ditch their products.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)also known as corporate fascism.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)progressoid
(49,988 posts)It's doubleplusgood.
riqster
(13,986 posts)BelgianMadCow
(5,379 posts)the mere reference! Please excercise doublethink.
dchill
(38,482 posts)Who are the terriss now?
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)We should not forget that.
This is not just Blowback from a Bushistas failure.
As a corporate entity, I don't feel all cuddly and warm about apple, either.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Until the laws are changed, we have to hope that whatever administration happens to be in power is 100 % holy, pure, and good. Not likely, so the laws need changed. That is the only way to fix the issue. Remember: much of what the NSA has been doing is technically legal.
And yeah, fuck Apple too.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Administrations come and go because they stand for elections. The security state answers to none of them -- or us.
Notice how little of Bush's policies actually changed. Notice how quickly and how high Obama jumps when they tel him to jump to the defense of the security state.
It is the tail wagging the dog. When we are talking about the really important issues, elections are mostly for show.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)I haven't really followed the Snowden affair all that closely, but I have ZERO doubt that Apple, Facebook, and all the rest worked very closely with the surveillance state in terms of what Snowden's revelations have uncovered.
This is Cover Your Ass Kabuki Theater. Nothing more.
All just my humble opinion.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)If their messaging helps to dial back these privacy violations, I don't care if it's kabuki theatre or broadway.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Duh.
riqster
(13,986 posts)By the Bushistas - that is the root of this evil.
Businesses lying, that is the usual.
Agencies using regs to expand their reach and influence, same thing.
As long as the patriot act and all of its bastard children remain in force, this issue cannot be dealt with.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)with regard to lack of business ethics.
I do share your enthusiasm for repealing the Patriot Act.
riqster
(13,986 posts)And in this case, the cure for any of Apple's actions in this matter is also the repeal of those same laws. If the government cannot go all big brother on our mobile devices, the tech firms have no such crimes to enable.
spin
(17,493 posts)of citizens is first for Congress to write laws that set clear restrictions and second to send those who approve illegal searches to jail.
The average citizen may have little to fear from these surveillance programs but those who exercise their free speech rights to criticize our government may. Our free press will also be hampered as reporters will fear the consequence of reporting news that may embarrass the administration no matter if it is Republican or Democratic. A politician may be forced to cast to vote in support of a program he opposes as if he doesn't his career may be destroyed by information discovered by monitoring all his communications and tracking his every movement.
Obviously J. Edger Hoover would have loved the power obtained by having detailed access to information on every citizen. Even though he lack the ability he would have today, he was known as the most powerful man in Washington for years as he knew the dirty secrets of many members of Congress.
"Tricky" Dick Nixon could have used data uncovered by the NSA to silence Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein from publishing the Watergate Papers.
The Founding Fathers had good reason to include the Fourth Amendment in the Bill of Rights.
The NSA's "General Warrants":
How the Founding Fathers Fought an 18th Century Version of the President's Illegal Domestic Spying
By David Snyder
The technology powering the National Security Agencys illegal domestic spying program would have amazed James Madison and the other framers of the Bill of Rights. In a time when the steamboat was a technological marvel, it would have been unimaginable for the government to collect millions of innocent Americans' private communications and use computers to look for "suspicious patterns."
But aside from the technology, the governments ongoing violation of fundamental civil liberties would have been very familiar to the men who gathered in 1791 to adopt the Bill of Rights. The Founding Fathers battled an 18th century version of the wholesale surveillance that the government is accused of doing today an expansive abuse of power by King George II and III that invaded the colonists communications privacy.
Using "writs of assistance," the King authorized his agents to carry out wide- ranging searches of anyone, anywhere, and anytime regardless of whether they were suspected of a crime. These "hated writs"1 spurred colonists toward revolution2 and directly motivated James Madison's crafting of the Fourth Amendment.
https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/att/generalwarrantsmemo.pdf
Used properly with good control, government surveillance might be a positive tactic to stop crime or stop a terrorist attack. Unfortunately if it is abused, we will no longer live in a free nation.
chungking34
(51 posts)It is a far bigger threat to the United States than Al Qaeda could ever hope to be.