I. Am. Not. Your. Enemy.

[SomethingFishy]

I believe that there are some natural remedies better than pharmaceuticals. That does not mean I am your enemy.

I believe that a few feminists go too far. That does not mean I am your enemy.

I believe the ACA is a mediocre solution to a hard core problem. That does not mean I am your enemy.

I am a smoker. That does not mean I am your enemy.

Occasionally I shop at Wal-Mart. That does not mean I am your enemy.

I will vote for the candidate who I believe is most in line with my liberal philosophy. That does not mean I am your enemy.

I know white privilege exists, but when I am struggling to keep a roof over my family's head I really don't need to be lectured about it. That does not mean I am your enemy.

As much as many of you seem to want me to be, I. Am. Not. Your. Enemy.

Rush is your enemy. Hannity and O'Reilly are your enemy. Apathy is your enemy. Ignorance is your enemy. Austerity is your enemy.

I am just a guy with an opinion, and while it may differ from yours, I still want the same things you do. Health, Happiness and Prosperity for all the citizens of this nation. Peace, Justice, fairness, and a chance to make a better life for those who come after me. So unless you are against those things, I Am Not Your Enemy.

Thanks for your time.

[Wait Wut]

1. We are not clones.

We are not only allowed to have a difference of opinion, but encouraged to do so.

I've known people that agreed with everything I've said/thought. They freaked me out.

[Kablooie]

83. Even if we were clones we'd have clone wars.

But at least some of us would learn how to use the force.

[PowerToThePeople]

2. "Occasionally I shop at Wal-Mart."

You should rethink this. You may be my enemy (at least on this issue).

[SomethingFishy]

4. I have "re-thought" it

believe me DU is not short on handing out "guilt" cards for stepping into Wally World. But DU doesn't pay my bills, DU doesn't have a bed ridden wife on oxygen 24/7, or a son with Muscular Dystrophy. DU doesn't need to save $150 a month on Insulin by buying it at Wally World.

So if the troubles of my family cause me to shop at Wal-Mart so I have enough money for both food and medicine, and that makes me your enemy, then it's you who has the problem my friend, not me.

[PowerToThePeople]

6. The problem isn't me.

Last edited Mon Jan 6, 2014, 06:59 PM - Edit history (2)

The problem isn't you.

The problem is an economic system which created wal-mart

The problem is an economic/social system which does not supply needed medicines to those in need.

The problem is an economic system which can drive people into a homeless/starvation state.

Wal-mart is a poster child of this system that I do not condone, so I do not condone or financially support wal-mart. I hope that others see this and choose to do the same.

edit- in my life, I have done things that I felt "needed" to be done in order to survive. Things that people on this board could chastise me for. I certainly would not claim they were in error for faulting me, because they would not be. I did what I felt I needed to do. A bad choice is a bad choice, regardless of the reasons. I accept that I have made imperfect choices, we all do. I can only hope to try and do better in the future. But, if someone calls my spade a spade, I will try to accept it for what it is.

edit2 - Enemy. I guess I also need to define the context of "enemy." When dealing with DUers (real Duers, not trolls, Freeper invaders, or Cave dwellers) I think of enemies as the style of Tom & Jerry or Coyote & Roadrunner. They are "enemies" but there is not a real animosity between them. So, you can be my enemy but I do not hate you.

[Dawgs]

10. +1.

The rich (Wal-Mart) wins when some of us are forced to shop there to survive.

[Maraya1969]

63. I think it is cheaper to shop at Costco. You have to shell out to get large amounts

but you really end up saving money. Like for example this type of gum called Rain or 5 or something, (haven't figured out what it is called but it is in a black package and the gum lasts for hours)


Anyway at the 7/11 it is $1.67 a pack. Probably at Wal-Mart it is a little less. But when they have them on sale at costco and you buy 12 in a box they end up being less that .50 cents each for a pack. For a gum chewer like me it is a real money saver.

I buy a huge thing of about 48 rolls of toilet paper at a time and they become really cheap.


I also check the papers and buy at stores that have BOGO's. And if you look in the paper or at an online coupon site they will usually have coupons for things that are going to be BOGO. So you can buy one item at a reduced rate and get another one for free.

I think initially people think they can't afford to buy in bulk but if you start with just one thing a month, like TP, you can add other things as you have a little extra. It really saves money.

[Walk away]

99. Costco has the best pharmacy prices that I have seen and...

excellent on line prices. You don't even have to have a membership.

[Maraya1969]

117. Oh yea, I had a prescription that wasn't covered by insurance and Costco was 1/2 the price of

Walmart!

[BuelahWitch]

110. Sometimes there's not a Costco nearby.

Unfortunately not every town or city in the US contains every chain.

[BarackTheVote]

64. This is why we need regulation

The free market has created a monster. I can't blame SomethingFishy for taking advantage of low prices when money's so tight. Some people simply can't make that kind of stand, and shouldn't be expected to. He's just a guy who has to make ends meet by whatever means necessary in our increasingly inequitable country. WalMart is genetically designed to destroy every competitor and keep forcing down prices and wages. Like Henry Ford, WalMart created its own customer base--unlike Henry Ford, WalMart's customer base is requisite upon them being poor and desperate for "good deals."

[TBF]

97. ^^ THIS ^^ nt

[ProSense]

12. Wal-Mart

I have "re-thought" it

believe me DU is not short on handing out "guilt" cards for stepping into Wally World. But DU doesn't pay my bills, DU doesn't have a bed ridden wife on oxygen 24/7, or a son with Muscular Dystrophy. DU doesn't need to save $150 a month on Insulin by buying it at Wally World.

So if the troubles of my family cause me to shop at Wal-Mart so I have enough money for both food and medicine, and that makes me your enemy, then it's you who has the problem my friend, not me.

...is an important part of that equation. Clearly it plays a vital role in your life. You're right, that doesn't make you the "enemy."

The people whose lives have been and will be saved by the ACA, who see it as a very important step in the right direction, are also not the "enemy."

Scorn has no place in this equation.

[SomethingFishy]

16. You know I tried my best to get along with you during the ACA rollout

I posted some nice things and agreed with you on a few points. And now you attack me for some goddamn imaginary scorn.

I got news for you Pro, I got insurance through the ACA and I am grateful that the pre-existing conditions didn't railroad me again. But it was neither the all saving grace you and your ilk seem to believe it is and it's not the huge disaster that the Republicans claim.

It's a mediocre solution to an extremely difficult problem. Yes I have posted dozens of times how I believe it is a small step in the right direction, but you go ahead and convince yourself that I am some kind of hater.

Apparently my post was right on. Not only are you looking for enemies but you are finding them where they don't exist.

From yesterday in case you think I am lying:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4277361

[freshwest]

21. I think she is talking about people scorning you. And there's nothing wrong with your linked post.

I know what it is to be on the outside of this equation, like you. I know that at times threads here seem like a slap in my face, and I don't bother to say anything to those who have not been in these situations. I respect you.

[Phlem]

22. perfect.

-p

[Ms. Toad]

23. I thinks she's supporting you. n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

31. Dead on the money

The ACA is better than nothing, though not that much better.

I am glad it has helped you. I am grieved it did such a bad job helping you.

[ProSense]

36. You know,

You know I tried my best to get along with you during the ACA rollout

I got news for you Pro, I got insurance through the ACA and I am grateful that the pre-existing conditions didn't railroad me again. But it was neither the all saving grace you and your ilk seem to believe it is and it's not the huge disaster that the Republicans claim.

It's a mediocre solution to an extremely difficult problem. Yes I have posted dozens of times how I believe it is a small step in the right direction, but you go ahead and convince yourself that I am some kind of hater.

...you apparently want to make those who support ACA the "enemy," but expect no one to take issue with you finding solace in Wal-Mart.

If you can find a "saving grace" in Wal-Mart, a solution to an "extremely difficult" situation, allow the millions of people who have gone years without coverage, suffered without health care and the families of those for whom it came too late, to also find hope in a solution.

Me and my "ilk" are grateful. Enjoy your moment of self-pity. Don't worry about anyone else, you know, the "enemy."

[freshwest]

17. +1,000. It's not a crime to be poor to Democrats, and it never was. n/t

[freshwest]

19. I would not do that - the poor and disadvantaged have enough to bear without getting knocked here.

I fully understand what you are saying and wish your family the best in an almost impossible situation.

I have posted on this before, that it does not fit a Democrat to ostracize a person in need or mcok their choices. We can do better.

My heart goes out to you and your family. You are what I call a real man, without all the negativity that has been added to the term.

I've been there, others have not, and you have spoken well. Good OP that I hope will help others.

[840high]

44. I understand. You're not

my enemy.

[LukeFL]

68. Amén. I beLieve you are not my enemy

Your family safety and health comes first. I don't shop at Walmart but I can deeply sympathize with your struggles.

[MADem]

81. For people who live in rural areas, sometimes it is Wally...or nutthin.

It's not like folks have a choice.

[Kelvin Mace]

29. Some folk have no choice

since they can't afford to pay higher prices for food at other less vile stores. People who can afford it, understand Wal-Mart is evil, yet choose to shop their anyway, ARE the enemy.

But I am not going to give someone a hard time for feeding their family.

[PowerToThePeople]

33. I do not believe in "no choice"

And, I have known people who shop there. The prices are not much if any better than other types of stores. Yes, they are less than your local "full price grocer" but the other smaller warehouse style places can get similar pricing.

It is a choice of convenience imo, not a choice of afford-ability.

[Kelvin Mace]

34. Don't know where you live

but I have relatives in rural Kentucky and West Virginia. Are you saying you expect them to burn gasoline and rubber to drive 40-60 miles to the nearest place offering a Wal-Mart alternative? Who pays for that?

What "smaller warehouse style places" are you referring to?

Seems to me that you are scorning the poor for being poor.

Personally I haven't stepped foot in a Wal-Mart in 25+ years, but I have a bit more income and live in a metro area where I have choices.

[PowerToThePeople]

37. I do live in a more urban environment

I do have other choices available to me.

The smaller communities did have choices at some point in time. These communities were able to get their needs met before wal-mart showed up to the scene. Choices were made by the public and/or those they elected to represent them. Businesses closed because of those choices. Now there may be very limited, if any, other choices left for those communities. It is still the community which created the situation in the first place. There are examples of communities which have not allowed wal-mart to enter. These communities still have the support of the smaller businesses.

As I stated in an above post, we all make choices. Not all of them are good.

[pnwmom]

47. Just because you live in a community where Walmart has a lock on the market

doesn't mean you contributed to or are responsible for putting Walmart there.

It doesn't mean you personally made any bad choices, even if it's the only option for some kinds of shopping.

People who live in Walmart communities and are stuck shopping there, through lack of other choices, are no more personally responsible than you are for living in a state that allows minimum wages to be so low that full-time Walmart employees can't survive on them.

[PowerToThePeople]

49. I do not agree

I think this is a defeatist attitude. We are responsible. It is our responsibility to ensure that the country and entities in the country represent the visions we want. Is that not the reason we are here in the first place? We are here to share and discuss our various visions of what the future can hold and hopefully figure out ways of getting those visions into existence or stop the forces trying to push visions that are counterproductive to ours.

[pnwmom]

52. Okay, as long as you accept that by your reasoning

you have also made a poor choice by living in a state that has a minimum wage that is so low a full-time worker can't survive on it.

I do most certainly agree that in a democracy we all have a responsibility to work for a better world.

[PowerToThePeople]

54. I do not, but..

I live in one of, if not, the highest minimum wage states in the union.

But, I agree with the premise of your post.

[Kelvin Mace]

58. So, the sins of the father may be visited on the children?

Also, the poor are responsible for being poor because they didn't have the political clout to oppose Wal-Mart's money machine in destroying their community over the last 20-30 years?

Sounds like victim blaming to me. Yeah, people make bad choices at time, but who is to blame? Greedy politicians facilitating greedy oligarchs while lying to the poor and telling them that Wal-Mart is great?

The Democratic Party is still pro-NAFTA and will elect a NAFTA supporter president in 2016. According to your logic the people who will be harmed by this absolute certainty are to blame for not coughing up a billion dollars they don't have to beat Hilary Clinton.

[PowerToThePeople]

59. We will be to blame when pro-NAFTA gets elected

You are correct. We are not to blame for not having a billion dollars, but we are to blame for giving up and choosing the "lesser of two evils" because we do not have that billion dollars.

I am reminded of a scene in a child's movie.

edit - the wal-mart thing is somewhat recent history, 15 years ago maybe? The people who made those choices are still around. This is not ancient history.

[Kelvin Mace]

67. I haven't given up

but I can't vote for people who don't run. I can't make HRC stay home and Elizabeth Warren run.

Wal-Mart has been around 51 years, and pursuing its policy of crushing small business for at least 25 years. The whole outsourcing ball was set in motion by Wal-Mart and its ilk starting in the late 80's. Yes, a lot of those people are still around, but what tools did the poor have to stop the likes of Wal-Mart who owned the government then as now? (and who now legally own the government since they bought the Supreme Court?)

I have been making an argument against "the lesser evils" form of democracy since I started posting on this board in 2003, yet I am routinely shouted down and called a winger for daring to criticize Obama and the DNC. I busted my ass for five years fighting for honest voting machines locally and nationally, and even managed to get laws changed, but it was all for naught. The corporate owners simply changed the voting districts to insure their people got elected. So even with honest voting machines, they have rigged the game so all my efforts (and many others) were pointless.

[PowerToThePeople]

70. I agree with everything you have said

I not not immune to the effects. I have had periods where I have felt and do feel defeated, where it is all for naught. Hell, I posted something similar very recently.

The issue of who gets my dollar is one area I feel I still retain some (possibly minor) strength. I do not have to give wal-mart anything.

When you are beaten down, like the liberals have been, you need to get back to where you are strongest and build out again from those places. I am doing similar things in my personal life at the moment as well...

[Kelvin Mace]

102. You and I have a choice of how we spend our dollar

Many do not, and I will not blame someone whose choice is Wal-Mart or making themselves poorer.

It is easier to "get back up to where you are strongest" if you have a good-paying job, health insurance, good health and a support network.

However, I have seen (and experienced) first hand what it is like to live without all of those things. Dealt with the crushing depression that lack can bring. I lucked out in that I did have a good support network at the point when I had nothing else. My stint into homelessness was short, and I found a decent paying job, then taught myself a new vocation and changed careers. Of course, that was 20 years ago, when such things were still possible. No one was kicking me off unemployment as fast as they could, no one made me pee in a cup to get food assistance, wages were better and you could still find work without a college degree.

None off this is true today.

[TransitJohn]

92. It's poverty-shaming mixed with urban elitism. eom

n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

98. I grew up and have worked in the South most of my life

but I also lived in Europe (Switzerland) for two years when I was 9, learned a foreign language (Italian) and had an Irish mother and a West Virginia father. My mom was from a fairly affluent family and lived in a European capital city (Dublin), my father was from a family of coal miners and lived in a city of a few thousand. The in-laws on both sides viewed the other with grave suspicion. The West Virginia protestant side knew that the Irish were Catholic, worshiped Mary, took their order from the Pope and were drunk all the time (my Mom's family didn't drink). The Irish Catholic side knew that people from West Virginia were ignorant, gun toting Protestants who were drunk on moonshine all the time (My Dad's family didn't drink or own guns)

One was poor, the other rich, and hard set in their dogmatism.

I see a lot of that same thinking in the demand for ideological purity over Wal-Mart and that no one should shop there.

I would like it if the Wal-Mart purists would leave the poverty-shaming to the conservatives.

[840high]

45. I don't have a smaller

warehouse place anywhere near me.

[pecwae]

86. Somehow

that is your fault, but I haven't yet read the post that details why it is. Surely, you will be enlightened at some point and truly understand that it is you who must make the economic sacrifice to drive many miles away to avoid shopping at Walmart.

[PowerToThePeople]

88. there lies the choice

The actions that yield the best results are not always the easiest to achieve.

[840high]

113. Right - waste gas to save 04.cents lol

[pecwae]

96. See, I told

that you'd be shown the error of your ways.

[840high]

114. Hugs. I decided

that I'll continue doing what's best for me to survive.

[alphafemale]

87. Must be nice to own such a tall horse.

Gives you a high place to look down on people.

[PowerToThePeople]

89. classy.

Not.

[TransitJohn]

91. Right, because driving a hundred miles to where there is anything other than WalMart is a

choice of convenience. Welcome to rural America.

[JackInGreen]

94. I hope all your judgment calls

and perspectives remain so clear. I'm afraid that it may do you a disservice in time.

[PowerToThePeople]

95. I am quite sure it already has.

No one is perfect, least of all, I.

[Stonepounder]

56. I've got to agree with SomethingFishy

We are on a fixed income and have a 10 yo dog with diabetes. He needs insulin twice a day. Without it he dies, with it he is doing just fine. I can buy his insulin for $24.80 at Wal-Mart. Anywhere else it is around $80.00. As much as I hate Wal-Mart, I love my dog more.

[PowerToThePeople]

61. Why the cost differential?

This question should be addressed.

[Stonepounder]

65. I asked the same question of my regular pharmacist.

Wal-Mart, due to their buying ability was able to negotiate a special contract with the drug company, since they buy their insulin by the tanker car, they were able to get special pricing. My pharmacist admitted that they couldn't come close to being competitive and basically told me I would be nuts to buy it any where else.

Additionally, the insulin Wal-Mart sells is a 'generic' which is not as well tolerated in some people. Luckily, our little diabetic does just fine on it.

[PowerToThePeople]

66. I wonder how low of a price

I wonder how low of a price the USP (United States Pharmacy) could negotiate?

I know it does not exist yet, but...

[Common Sense Party]

3. Well said.

Some people perpetually have their undies bunched and their dander up.

Life's too short.

[RC]

5. Kickity, kick, kick, kick

For the usual suspects:
We are not your enemy. I am not your enemy. Stop treating us as if we are, just because our plumbing is not streamlined, does not mean we are inferior.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. "Differences of opinion are what make horse races." Mark Twain

[kcr]

8. Just because people disagree with you

doesn't mean they're attacking you and declaring you the enemy

[SomethingFishy]

11. With over 5000 posts I would think you have been on DU long enough to know better

I'm not talking about people who have a reasonable disagreement and discuss it rationally. And if you actually think that everyone on DU is reasonable and rational then you haven't been here long enough.

[kcr]

15. Well, now, that's different from your OP

That didn't seem like a call for reasonable and rational disagreement to me. Yes, there are DUers that aren't very rational. But that doesn't mean all of them are that way.

[daleanime]

24. Really?

It seem to me that it was. And a fairly good one too.

[kcr]

28. dots. between. each. word.

[daleanime]

48. When used in conjunction with words.....

their called periods.




You no like?

[kcr]

51. It's spelled they're when you're joining the words they and are

Call them dots or periods, I just think it's not the look to go for if you're trying for reasonable and rational discussion.

[daleanime]

71. One of the many problems with on line disscussions.....

OP was trying to put some weight on his words(my reading anyway). Would you have preferred all Caps, underlined or a different color? Would that have really changed your reaction to the post?

[kcr]

72. To me that reads as seething.

But honestly? I don't know. The sheer number of complaints? And the type? It reads as whining that people don't agree. It's DU. And it's a political board. But then the OP doesn't just whine. The OP seeths. For example Wal Mart is a scourge on this country and its workers. A small few people who post about Wal Mart don't excuse anyone who shops there. But most will excuse those who genuinely can't afford not to shop there. So get in a twist about Wal Mart posts for the few who don't? If I care about the damage Wal Mart does, how do I know he's. not. an. enemy? Same thing with feminists. He doesn't even specify here, just makes a general comment. Really how. do. I. know. he. isn't. an. enemy? Don't get me started on the white male privilege post. Meh to the whole OP I say. I think most people on DU who post here have good faith, even if they get heated. His OP doesn't do anything to foster that good faith.

[NuclearDem]

9. None of those were ever meant to be personal.

You're absolutely right, but largely when these topics come up they're raised to educate, not shame.

Unfortunately, this is the internet, and discussions of these issues tend to be best pictured as unstoppable forces meaning immovable objects.

[SomethingFishy]

13. And I get that, but last night I wandered into a thread about Iraq..

about how Al-Queada is moving back in. And one of the responses in the thread was "What was the point of posting this".

Now IMHO threads like that are what DU is supposed to be about, not all this sad bickering about "Woo". I've never even heard the term "Woo" until a few days ago and about 20 minutes ago I counted 21 threads on the subject on page one. People are "taking sides" and attacking each other over something that I didn't even know existed till DU told me.

It all just seems so manufactured.

[closeupready]

32. It IS manufactured. That is why I LOL at it - silliness.

Sheer silliness to take such a high school concept/term as seriously as, for example, the cost of MRI's in economies with nationalized health care vs. the ad hoc system we have in the US, or more abstractly, war vs. peace.

And then we have thread after thread devoted to trashing Jenny McCarthy. Of all people. I mean, how serious can you take people who do this? Not very, IMO.

Cheers, and peace to you!

[valerief]

42. Woo is just the latest troll topic. I think it was pee oh are en before that. nt

[kcr]

43. You thought wrong n/t

[Tumbulu]

73. Goodness, those screaming about

"woo" have been doing so in their own group for many years now, oh and they occupy the health forum as well.

Utterly divisive and counterproductive IMO.

[ctsnowman]

107. "It all just seems so manufactured."

Yup.

[reflection]

14. Excellent OP. Thank you.

[longship]

18. I am cool with that.

I probably would disagree with you on many things, or maybe not. Who knows.

I don't look at any DUer as my enemy. There are a few who try my patience. But mostly I think chair throwing contests here end up being pretty damned useless.

Why can't we just get along? Disagreement is fine, but do so respectfully.

[Cleita]

20. Thanks fishy. Well said.

[nomorenomore08]

25. I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. But you shouldn't take message board threads so personally.

No to be mean, but this OP does strike me as a bit of a strawman.

For the record, I have no issue with most of your points, except:

"I know white privilege exists, but when I am struggling to keep a roof over my family's head I really don't need to be lectured about it." This is a legitimate emotional response, but rather than being (understandably) wrapped up in one's own difficulties, it might be better to find common cause with others who may be struggling even more in some respects.

"I believe that a few feminists go too far." You may be right, but that is way, way down on the list of real priorities. Maybe check back with me when there are no more Steubenvilles, then we can talk about feminists going too far.

[wryter2000]

108. Thank you n/t

n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

26. No, you're not. But neither are you one of those obsessed with bullying and controlling

the course of every conversation, and that's what the issue is, not our relative agreements on issues at large.

You and I and probably 98% of DU members can disagree on something, argue our positions, and part changed or at least amicably. It's the other 2% that make that the rare exception.

[rhett o rick]

39. .

[Gothmog]

27. Good post

I am not a member of an organized political party-I am a democrat.

The Democratic Party is full of diverse ideas and people. Someone who agrees with me, 80% of the time is my ally and friend.

[mercymechap]

30. Except for the smoking....

I could almost say the same things.....Obamacare is a mediocre solution, but had it not passed we would still have what we had before and it was worse. The whole idea was to get something passed that can be refined into something better....just like Medicare, Social Security, etc.



I just wish more Republican/conservatives would be able to see through their murky glasses, and realize that Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly tell them things that benefit Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly....but alas, nothing gets through to them.....

[democrank]

35. You`re definitely not my enemy.

I like your straightforward approach.

Many folks who have seen hard times or are currently going through hard times understand the gray areas better than the black-or-whiters. I`m pretty gray myself. For instance, I`m an old hippy who spent a lot of time with the women`s movement, yet I agree that many feminists go too far.

Even though I`d rather shop at little Mom and Pop stores or thrift shops I recently bought several board games at Wal-Mart so I could afford to help more kids this Christmas.

I also know white privilege exists but the white folks I know are struggling. One buys his heating oil by the 5-gallon can because he can`t afford the minimum fuel delivery of 100 gallons. Another one, age 83, just sold a treasured possession so she could get her furnace fixed. I saw a woman pushing a baby in a stroller the other day. It was snowing, freezing, and neither of them had mittens or a hat. The woman didn`t even have a jacket. I can remember not having a jacket so I understand how these things happen. In short, there`s something to this notion of walking a mile in another person`s shoes.

My best to you and your family.

[zeemike]

38. Good post.

And democrats are a diverse bunch, and that is what makes us strong, but it is also where our weakness is because we can be divided.
And I once read in some Kafka story that the way the devil works is by pointing out our diferences...look at him, he shops at Wall Mart and smokes, democrats do not shop at Wall Mart, and hate smoking, so he is our enimy...and that is how it goes.
And the big tent gets smaller and smaller.

[rhett o rick]

40. There is a very small group here that are not interested in decent discussions.

The like to use self-righteousness to bully others. It's a shame. But you can put them on ignore.

[valerief]

41. Ha, you sound like me with some RW acquaintances. I've said the same thing, that I'm not

their enemy. I think it's an important point to make.

[pnwmom]

46. Thank you! And I am not yours! n/t

[DemocraticWing]

50. Opponents and enemies are two different things.

And it seems like most of the time, you and I are not even opponents on the major issues.

People get too caught up on how to treat people with different political views, but when it comes down to it, most everyday people are going to be friendly with you regardless of where you disagree. It gets frustrating on the internet, because it draws out the worst people (especially the far right bigots), but in general I don't hold severe antipathy towards people with different views. I can't do that because I have to work with them, live around them, etc.

[diabeticman]

53. thank you.

[obxhead]

55. Too many times

Too many times have I been thrashed here for an opinion, yet in the end, the one doing the thrashing and I have the EXACT SAME FUCKING GOAL in mind.

[Arkana]

57. YOU ARE UNCLEAN AND MUST BE PURGED FROM THE COLLECTIVE!

[Blue_In_AK]

60. Thank you.

[colorado_ufo]

62. I would never think of you as my enemy!

You make a lot of good points. But if you are struggling to keep a roof over your family's head (as I once did for many years), you might consider kicking that that $5 to $7 a pack tobacco habit that provides you no nourishment or health benefit and just burns up your money. When The Husband and I were working three jobs and raising two children, and every penny counted to provide them with food and housing and medical care and a decent life - and rarely some new clothes - we would not have dreamed of using that hard-earned money to indugle ourselves with tobacco and alcohol. But, I guess times have changed.

[Beacool]

69. I don't know what this is about, but I don't consider anyone here an enemy.

I may disagree with a lot of people here, but they are not my enemies.

[Tumbulu]

74. I am not your enemy either

and join you in wishing all these attacking, insulting threads leading nowhere except leaving people feeling ostracized stop.

[DFW]

75. "Streitsüchtig" A great German word for you to learn

It describes some people you meet on DU (or anywhere).

[La Lioness Priyanka]

76. did anyone say you were?

i think you are wrong about multiple issues, but unless you are personally harming me, its a real stretch to call anyone here my enemy, no matter how idiotic their opinion/behavior maybe

[Not Sure]

78. I love shopping at Costco

but sometimes my job puts me in Tulsa, Oklahoma for extended periods of time. The closest Costco is in Overland Park, Kansas (been to that one). The next closest one is in Plano, Texas (shopped that one, too!). I hit Walmart there from time to time, but my first choice is Reasors (good selection of vegetables).

My work also puts in me in Madill, Oklahoma or Sweetwater, Texas at weird hours and the only store open in the middle of the night in either place is, you guessed it, Walmart. I can only pack so much food and very little in the way of perishable items, so I buy it fresh when I am able. I'd rather not shop at Walmart, but I have to eat.

Shopping for a meal at what is often the only place open does not make someone an enemy. I'd much rather shop leisurely at a farmer's market in daylight rather than rush through Walmart dodging underpaid workers stocking shelves, but that's not a choice I get to make very often.

I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of this thread. Thanks for posting it.

[BainsBane]

79. I don't see enemies or allies according to party lines

The political spectrum in the US is very narrow. Hannity and O'Reilly are extreme examples, but they are media creations. You seem to be insisting I maintain a view of politics based on which tribe of politicians are in power. I vote Democratic because there is no other realistic alternative. I'm glad you do too, but the idea political action and allegiances are limited to the narrow construct of party ID is not something I accept.

I don't know you and don't consider you my enemy, but that doesn't mean you are my ally. If you are angered by single thread about white privilege, that tells me you insist on a view of the world that is framed by whiteness and aren't interested in what others have to say. Yours is of course only one in a series of posts complaining that someone dare bring up the issue of white privilege, not unlike the denunciations that are commonly made about feminist voices. This is the type of attitude that makes DU an overwhelmingly white site, in stark contrast to the Democratic party that is majority people of color and women. If you don't want people to see you as their enemy, don't invalidate their posts by saying you "don't want to be lectured." If someone followed you around the site posting that you are white and privileged, that would amount to a lecture. A thread does not. I'm not so naïve to think that those so easily put out will actually think about ideas like white privilege, male privilege, or rape culture, but I would hope they could muster enough respect to simply pass over the threads without denouncing their very existence. Increasingly, I fear that hope is misplaced.

[Laffy Kat]

80. You didn't mention how you feel about cats and dogs.

I withhold judgment until I know how you feel about critters.

[hfojvt]

82. you smoke and you vote 3rd parties?

With non-enemies like that, who needs enemies?

[Notafraidtoo]

84. Just because someone disagrees with you

Doesn't mean they are attacking you or considering you a enemy, If you are going to post and express your opinion against science or feminism started by pro science and feminist posters to expect people to simply not challenge your opinions is a little narcissistic, it takes a thick skin to express your beliefs because you will be challenged, that's not a bad thing and don't take it personal, in the end its you living in your skin but it is also them living in theirs.


Struggling to keep a roof over your head is not the absence of white privilege and i find it odd you would use that as a example obviously you do need to be taught if you are going to express opinions about it. Oh and don't take it personal but really please take a few minutes to learn, your comments show you don't know, you don't have to take a few minutes to learn but it will simply lead to more of these challenges i am talking about whenever you express a opinion that doesn't understand the subject matter. Its a lot like engineers challenging Einsteins theory of relativity, happens all the time but its laughable.

[Titonwan]

90. Pretty much right on

but your command of english sentence structure sucks big time. Your last paragraph is about two run on sentences. Take a pause, now and then- breath. It reads better, that way. (See what I did?)

[psiman]

85. Shake, Friend, We Are Not Enemies

We have too much important work to do together, to squabble over petty differences.

[wryter2000]

109. Welcome to DU

[JackInGreen]

93. Thank you

and well said.

[Bonobo]

100. Do you drink from the empty acorn cup? nt

[grahamhgreen]

101. Make no mistake. Walmart IS your enemy, my friend:)

[get the red out]

103. Well said

[quinnox]

104. K&R

There are more than a few who seem to not be able to handle disagreement here, and also lock steppers who are outraged if any don't fall in line too.

[brush]

105. You should definitely re-think the shopping at Walmart thing

I mean c'mon. There are too many other places to shop. Drive a couple more miles already.

[WilliamPitt]

106. Excellent post.

[Jester Messiah]

111. Well said. Hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

I worry that people get too invested in partitioning off ever-smaller segments of humanity, defining anyone who isn't exactly like them or 100% in sync with their particular set of views as an enemy or, at best, a false ally.

[grantcart]

112. Well said

I would take point in only one point

I believe the ACA is a mediocre solution to a hard core problem. That does not mean I am your enemy.

The ACA has not ever been seen as a 'solution'. It is the first step and, as first steps go, it is a radical departure. While some folks write smart ass threads bemoaning that ACA is not single payer they appear to be unaware that the ACA is the single largest expansion of single payer since the advent of Medicaid. To date more than 4 million low income folks have been added to Medicaid/CHIP roles. This is hardly 'mediocre'. More over many of the 2 million private ACA enrollees will, like me, be getting excellent subsidies, which duplicate the function of single payer systems, if they are not technically so.

The second point is that there is no one step switch to single payer. It is true that England flipped a switch, all at once, but that was only because they were faced with a national emergency after the war and their entire health care industry had collapsed, and their was a national realization that the entire country had a shared sacrifice and now should have a shared benefit.

Even if we could have some how gotten it passed the Senate, it would never have gotten Chief Justice's Roberts deciding vote. This isn't conjecture but fact. We know this because while he found the ACA constitutional he found the federal mandate that all states expand Medicare to be unconstitutional. Expanding Medicare is a much smaller step in the single payer evolution.

Canada took 20 years to move from a very modest guaranteed hospital plan in a small province to comprehensive national single payer coverage.

If you look at any federal agency, Social Security, CDC, Medicare and so on, support for their growth always occurs after they demonstrate their effectiveness.

History will show that the ACA wasn't simply the largest peacetime expansion of the Federal Government into the private sector in 200 years, it was the largest step possible. Anything more would not have passed the Roberts Court.

So while I enjoy your post and its message, I find that characterizing the ACA as a proposed 'solution' rather than a historic 'first step' is unfortunate.

In any case I am not your enemy and applaud your reasoned argument for a wider perspective and more civility at DU.



edited to add: I occasionally shop at WalMart. They are never my first choice and I go their rarely but sometimes, especially in some rural areas (i.e. Brawley CA) they are the only place to shop within 20 miles. That people would want to try and make an issue with such a statement just shows that they didn't get your point at all. Sorry to hear about your wife and son. Best of luck.

[Zorra]

115. yep

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024135002

[Unca Jim]

116. AMEN!

Seriously...focus!

[ReRe]

118. The only true enemy we all have is...

... the 1%.

[NaturalHigh]

119. An excellent post there.

There are some people with a "my way or the highway" mentality that can just be nasty if one dares to express an opinion that even slightly differs with their own.