General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Why Is It Still So Taboo For a Woman To Date A Shorter Man?"
But why does height even matter? Surely I should be able to embrace the possibility of having a boyfriend who is shorter than me? And if I can't, why can't I?
A long long time ago, when men and women were considered to have very specific male and female "duties" to be a hunter-gatherer (men), and to look after the kids (women), you could say it was almost necessary for the men to be bigger so they were able to successfully carry out said duties.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)stranger makes an insensitive comment about their height difference.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)their problem.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)And it is a largely unexamined expectation that straight women be shorter than their mate.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)No idea why they thought their opinion was important.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)Why would men think that's a good idea?
dawg
(10,624 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 13, 2014, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)
from the shorter man. (Or at least try and shame you for dating a non-dominant male.)
At least, that's my theory. As a smaller guy myself, I do think short people, especially short men, get unfair treatment from time to time. It's nothing like the crap that women and ethnic minorities have to put up with, but it isn't just imagination or "lack of confidence" either.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)but surely that can't be the real reason, can it? I mean, I'm out with the short guy. I obviously like the short guy. Is bullying the guy I like seriously supposed to make me want to ditch him for a bully? Seriously? WTF are these people thinking?
Ok, now I've worked it out. They're just not very good at thinking.
dawg
(10,624 posts)I have seen tall men who were very aggressive towards people smaller than them, and I have seen smaller men who were very aggressive to every damn body (to compensate for their perceived lack of dominance, I suppose).
A well adjusted man (tall or short) isn't going to exhibit any of this behavior, of course.
But how many of us can truly say that we're "well adjusted"?
RobinA
(9,893 posts)as taboo as you make it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Men are taller on average and so pairing off we are encouraged for the man to be the taller. I guess so he's always, at least within the couple, the stronger. Along with the equally illogical "rule" the woman must be the younger of the two, even if by just a year or two.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)who made them make sure women are weaker.
treestar
(82,383 posts)There are probably some men who won't violate the "rule," too.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Wouldn't bother me, but I know guys who it would bother.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)Incest is a taboo. People don't take their family (at least in most places) out on romantic dates like short men take out taller women. A taboo is something people have to hide from society if they do it. Breaking a taboo is usually some immoral and/or illegal activity.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)"Women don't prefer short men" probably wouldn't have elicited as much interest.
JI7
(89,249 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)Skittles
(153,160 posts)only weenies thing that way
pink-o
(4,056 posts)And although I prefer men closer to my height, I'd throw every last bloke over for 5'6" Jon Stewart if he wasn't already married with 2 kids.
Something tells me height wasn't a consideration for his wife Tracy either!
Squinch
(50,949 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Squinch
(50,949 posts)madrchsod
(58,162 posts)i think you are making to much out of this. if one meets someone they feel they could have a relationship with who cares what other people think.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Many will not date men under 6 feet. It is their version of "fat chicks".
https://twitter.com/expsnghghtsm
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)I'm 6' tall, btw. My husband isn't taller than I am. (But my 13 y.o. son is!)
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)"no matter how tall you are, you are not allowed to look down on your mom."
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)Any more than the men who can be nasty and cruel to "fat chicks". Life's just way too short to waste on such tiny, shallow people.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Pay them no mind.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)One of the beautiful people saddle up to the bar, flash that perfect smile and start talking to reveal the black hole where their soul used to be thus transforming them into a hideously malformed being. Happened every night. Then the "fat chick" arrives, raising the average intelligence at the bar and doubling the humor quotient, makes my night and gets a few free shots just because she's so hot! Happened all the time.
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)It was striking to me how many hopelessly broken pretty people were out there. The whole package -- looks, brains, and a sense of humor -- is a very rare thing. Believe it or not, people with the whole package sometimes have trouble finding love because people are so intimidated by them. The world can be a very ugly place.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)weird.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Weird.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)How much more careful could I be and still try to introduce something that many men experience?
Matariki
(18,775 posts)"Many women"? Three or four you know or something?
What does it prove? What point are you trying to make? Wouldn't "some women" have been clearer and more accurate?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I think there's only a small difference.
From my perspective, it is many. The amount on that Twitter could be described as either "some" or "many".
The point? The point is that it is an issue that men face and this OP is about the short men/tall women issue.
I really don't see your objection to my bringing this up. It is reality for many men.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Why is it that when men bring up an issue that discusses any difficulty in being a man that someone always says "Well MEN do that to other MEN!"
Does that make it any less difficult for the victims?
"Millions of men die in wars" > "Well, who sends them!?"
"Millions of men are incarcerated" > "The Judicial system is Patriarchy!"
"More men are victims of violence" > "It is MEN who are committing the violence"
"Men are discriminated against for being short." > "Men do that to other men!"
Etc.
I don't understand the logic of that counterargument unless it is the proposition that if victims and perpetrators both have penises than the effect of being victimized is somehow mitigated.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Which was actually to point out that short men are nearly universally abject.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Men suck, so they get what they deserve.
But don't call it sexism, because the belief that one gender is inferior to the other is sexism only half the time.
tblue
(16,350 posts)Height is a matter of personal preference, like other attrubutes. You can't make someone feel attracted to something that doesn't appeal to them. But you can't make someone not like something that appeals to them either.
There's nothing less appealing than criticizing a person for something they can't control.
brettdale
(12,381 posts)Im five foot 3. Some of the comments I have heard, are amazing.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)Response to Bonobo (Reply #16)
Cali_Democrat This message was self-deleted by its author.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)for his height.
I am now married to a taller man. His height had nothing to do with my choosing to marry him. How he treated me and how much in synch he was with me and my values was why I married him. It just boils down to that.
Warpy
(111,261 posts)Meat didn't happen all that often and most of what men did was practice with their gear for the next hunt--or war.
Most mammal males are larger because they're expected to fight each other to ensure only the best get to pass their genes down. Winning a fight isn't by brawn alone so it mostly works.
Trying to explain why males are taller and with heavier bone structure by the tribal habits of evolved human beings is silly and untrue.
ETA: I should mention that I'm dead average for a woman, 5'6" Most of the guys I've dated have been around my height as well as my age. An aversion to high heeled shoes partially explains it.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)HipChick
(25,485 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 13, 2014, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)
Not much more one can say than that, I think.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I think there is a good possibility that something about how we raise girls tends to make those that are hetero want 'this' and when I say 'this' I mean a tall, big man.
I think that is problematic from a number of perspectives. I'm 5' 10" so I am generally not negatively personally affected by this in terms of dating, but there is a point, if the species continues getting taller because of this kind of selection, that it could go beyond what our muscle-skeletal and cardio-vascular infrastructure can successfully deal with. One only has to look at what human interference in the breeding of dogs has done to certain breeds.
It's also problematic as it may be indicative of raising women to want to be protected rather than as fully confident and actualized beings.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)JI7
(89,249 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)(And very much to the point)
snooper2
(30,151 posts)some aren't but the majority are
Squinch
(50,949 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)someone great. We live in a culture where some people will only date super attractive people. How do these people know their true partner in life is going to be super attractive? Maybe their true partner is just average looking and they miss out on being with their true partner because of their dating preference.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Maybe the true partner of someone that's gay is someone that's straight. Maybe the true partner of someone that's straight is someone that's gay. Maybe the true partner of a woman is the man she's with through an arranged marriage. Who knows?
Personal choice in who you spend your time with. Where is the problem in that? Isn't that the whole point of being free to choose whatever? If you prefer X, then possibly missing out on Y doesn't mean much to you. Maybe they're finding everything they want in their preference.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)is not a preference just like it is not a chosen lifestyle as conservatives call it. Secondly, choosing to date someone based on height, weight, skin color, eye color, or any other physical appearance is a choice and one we can change. The trouble with choosing someone to date based on physical appearance is that you miss out on choosing someone based on character. Martin Luther King Jr. said he hoped for a day when people would be judged for the content of their character and not the color of their skin. Whether it is skin color, eye color, weight, or height if people take the time to look at people for who they are, their personality, then they might be surprised to find that they find someone attractive that they would not have found attractive simply by looking at them. And it is that character, that personality that truly bonds people, not their looks.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)First of all being gay is not a preference just like it is not a chosen lifestyle as conservatives call it.
I was saying that maybe their true partner in life may not be gay/straight, because you brought up the "true partner" thing. Just as your true partner may not be super attractive, perhaps someone's true partner isn't of the same sexual orientation. Who's to say?
Secondly, choosing to date someone based on height, weight, skin color, eye color, or any other physical appearance is a choice and one we can change. The trouble with choosing someone to date based on physical appearance is that you miss out on choosing someone based on character. Martin Luther King Jr. said he hoped for a day when people would be judged for the content of their character and not the color of their skin. Whether it is skin color, eye color, weight, or height if people take the time to look at people for who they are, their personality, then they might be surprised to find that they find someone attractive that they would not have found attractive simply by looking at them. And it is that character, that personality that truly bonds people, not their looks.
Not necessarily. You might miss out on choosing someone based on character, or you might not. If someone wants to date someone based on their physical appearance, who cares? It's their own business. If someone wants to date someone based on their character, who cares? It's their own business. There's no right or wrong involved. It's dating.
I'd also say you might be stretching that MLK phrase just a little bit too far. Again, personal preference in dating, not social injustice.
treestar
(82,383 posts)for both sexes. Get to know the person. Focusing on a trait like that is likely to mean they will project qualities onto the person that the person doesn't have.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)Who wants to date a short guy in a college town. I'm 5'5" tall and apparently that's too short.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)It's not like I had a lot of luck dating as a near six footer.
I know biology does not work that way, but sometimes I would wish I was 5'8" or something. If my same weight was on a shorter frame, then maybe I would not always be known as "the skinny guy", maybe I would not look like a strong wind would blow me over.
I have a co-worker who is perhaps 5' 5" and he is so good looking and so well-proportioned that his height doesn't slow him down at all. Well, at least he has kids from three different women, so he's doing okay.
FreeState
(10,572 posts)And my boyfriend is two inches shorter than me - he is the only guy I have dated that was under 5' 11. I've never really even given my height any thought when it came to dating. But maybe thats because I'm short?!
Courtesy Flush
(4,558 posts)Here's a picture of me and my wife -- taken exactly 30 years and five months ago. No, she wasn't in heels.
JI7
(89,249 posts)nice pic , very 80s .
eridani
(51,907 posts)How about that wry British humor?
Dash87
(3,220 posts)Like with most cultural rules, there's no reason for it and it's silly.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)There are all types of dating prejudices in this world, this is simply one more of them. Weight, height, color, politics, religious belief, wealth, social class, neighborhood, job title, marriage track record, etc.
Once you define it as a prejudice (or the softer term, stereotype) it's easier to understand that it's a foolish qualifier.
UTUSN
(70,695 posts)Meandyou
(22 posts)I think it boils down to feeling emasculated.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Think about that.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)To call a culturalized personal preference a bias is silly. We all have them, some of us are just more willing to admit them.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)Even if the basis of your supposed lack-of-attractiveness is a cultural bias or personal preference of the people you want to date. Nobody has an inalienable right to companionship or getting laid.
More often though, the cause of their universal undesirability has less to do with with what they think is wrong with them in terms of cultural bias...and more that nobody wants to listen to them whine and if they're going to whine "Why don't women want to date short men? Oh woe is me! I'm sad so sad." then when that problem is rectified for them, they're going to find new cause of lament.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)... probably because there aren't many
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)and the last time I dated someone shorter than me was 7th grade. He was a whole foot shorter than me too. Same guy is now over 6 feet, LOL. No, we didn't last, but it wasn't because of the height thing.
I have no preference for height. If someone is shorter than me, but is nice and we have the same interests and we care about each other...then it seems pretty stupid to have height be a deciding factor. I don't get people like that.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)The last time was in my 20's.
I also hit on a couple of shorter guys in HS and also in my 20's and got shot down, so if not for those rejections I'd have dated even more shorter guys.
a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)I don't think I've dated someone shorter than me ever.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)I've dated several men shorter than me. Never bothered me.
Tikki
(14,557 posts)I really feel more comfortable around guys my height or shorter.
I am exactly the same height as Mr. Tikki.
Tikki
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Think of all the tall actresses and models with shorter husbands and boyfriends. It's quite common.
Tikki
(14,557 posts)Tikki
brettdale
(12,381 posts)It would appear a short guy can get an attractive woman if he is a film star.
Tikki
(14,557 posts)post my wedding picture and my sister-in-law's wedding pictures?
Tikki
Tikki
(14,557 posts)...old people shrink a bit
The Tikkis
JI7
(89,249 posts)most don't have trouble finding a date.
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)He's cute, funny as hell, and probably rich to boot. Any straight woman or gay man would be out of their mind to turn up their nose at him.
Tikki
(14,557 posts)He and his wife sound perfect for each other
so much in common.
I always wish any couple a life of happiness together
Tikki
*he has been acting since he was six years old..
zazen
(2,978 posts)than short men who don't get dates.
Now, do those short men get dates with those women who are the most conventionally attractive? I don't know.
I think there are millions of wonderful women written off because their breasts aren't big enough or they're heavier than the cultural standard or they don't appear like they're 28 anymore who'd love to go out with decent men of any height. If a woman rejects a really great guy because of height, he should count himself lucky that he was spared someone who was really shallow. She's saved him time, really, so he can go about finding a mate who values more substantive attributes.
I assume male height goes into the same pool of standards that constrain all of us who are measured by gendered standards of beauty, the most oppressive of which is the requirement that all women appear as close to ages 18-28 as possible and that their worth as a human being declines with increasing evidence on their body that they've lived a rich, active life. All of it is a shallow crock of shit that limits our appreciation of the human soul, but then, that's not something that's going to change in my lifetime. I tend to fall in love with a guy and then love his body because it "belongs" to the person I love, and as a result I have very wide standards of what I find attractive. I'm certainly susceptible to secondary sex characteristics mattering (hirsuteness in particular--male body shaving baffles me), but height is the least of these. I would never not date a wonderful guy because he was shorter than me.
treestar
(82,383 posts)they are subjected to far less than women when it comes to these issues. Women have many - height, weight, hair length, hair color, looks, shape (you can be thin but have hips too wide, that was me) - just everything.
Short men can always find a short woman. Maybe she's not thin enough for them.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Also, what makes you think weight, looks, fitness, style, etc. don't figure into a man's prospects for dating?
treestar
(82,383 posts)They don't seem to have to worry about it all so much. Sure good looking men will do better, that's true.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)Turned out he was just a short asshole. He had such a thing about being short. And of all things he was a football coach.
I finally just gave up. He tried so hard to come across like this funny, likable guy but underneath he was just a little jerk.
Would I date another short guy? Well, of course if he wasn't a jerk.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It would be pretty hard to be a short and/or skinny man in this society. But then there is a lot of reassurance that you'll still be desirable if you make money, etc. Men have another way other than to be physically attractive. Supposedly.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Very well said.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)JI7
(89,249 posts)it's probably not the case at all.
i'm short so there aren't many guys shorter than me. but just about all the friends i had who were tall had no problem going out with guys who were short.
it's like those guys who claim women don't really want nice guys because they were rejected. when the truth is that they are not really nice guys .
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Loved it too! Not sure it's taboo....
Dorian Gray
(13,493 posts)but I've heard more men make fun of fat chicks than women make fun of short men. Just saying.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)has a longtime girlfriend who's taller than he is.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)She was (and I assume still is) very attractive and that was the only thing I got comments on. I never felt uncomfortable about the height difference and neither did she.
Bettie
(16,109 posts)My DH is the same height as I am...I admit, I use it as an excuse to avoid high heels, or rather, I did when I was younger and actually thought of wearing such things!
But he's so wonderful that I'd adore him if he were shorter or taller.
MineralMan
(146,308 posts)It's that simple. People are funny that way, I guess.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)redwitch
(14,944 posts)Why is it an issue? I don't get it myself.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I can certainly understand the convenient self-satisfaction obtained in holding responsible those things we're unable to change rather than our personalities and how we treat others... it allows us to maintain the wonderfully validating illusion that we're funny, interesting and smart, and indict others as shallow and cursory when our awkward attempts at currying someone's romantic favor is quickly interrupted by who we choose to be.
Not that the above is true in every single instance, but if we're honest to ourselves in regards to who we actually are...
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)If he was an average guy, no woman would look twice at him.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Still, I don't really see it as a taboo, more a preference, and dare I say insecurity.
I mean, it happens, women being with shorter guys, however you're right that it is not as common.
I don't think it taboo, some just don't expand their selection choices.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"If he was an average guy, no woman would look twice at him...."
Interesting allegation that says very little of the many short people out there who indeed, date quite a lot.
clyrc
(2,299 posts)And besides that, he's from Pakistan. I know people will look at us funny, and make unflattering assumptions. I'm pretty sure I can handle it.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Wonder how many of those people casting nasty glances your way have perfect marriages. None of them, I'd guess.
Congrats on your engagement, btw.
clyrc
(2,299 posts)We're still waiting for him to come over on a fiance visa.
MineralMan
(146,308 posts)Her father was about 5'6". When she was a teenager, she dated guys who ran the full range of heights. I guess she didn't see how height mattered.
Neither do I. When I was younger, I was 6'2" in height (less now that I'm a geezer). I dated girls and women through the years in a wide range of stature. I couldn't see how it mattered. I never did date anyone who was taller than my self, but I would have if I had met anyone in that category.
One type of person I never dated, though, was the kind of person who lets superficial stuff determine their choices. That never seemed worthwhile.
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)Men and especially short men aren't the one's responsible for that.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I'm thinking we're discussing something that is dead (yes, as a doornail) with regard to our next generation. My son's last girlfriend was the same height (6') that he was at the time. He is now 6'2" and there's still a lot of girls close to that in his class. So, I think we can close the book on it. I am constantly amazed at how much more open minded my son's generation is than mine.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I happen to prefer taller men. One of my gentlemen friends is a foot taller than me, which I happen to like a lot.
mnmoderatedem
(3,728 posts)don't ask me why, I have no idea why,
Anyway, this piece was specifically about the trials and tribulations of short men and dating life and their expressed frustrations. They took a few short men, and had them meet and greet taller women and get to know each other. The men all had all these positive (on the surface) qualities, good jobs, good conversationalists, engaging personalities, etc. After meeting them, each of the women gushed about that an "eye opening" experience it was for them, and when asked about following up with the men in question, each of them said they would be happy to, as the whole experience opened up new doors for them, blah blah blah.
But they reported a week later, all the women had in fact declined to actually follow up, despite their words.
It's not taboo, and there are exceptions of course. But by and large, women just don't want to date shorter men.
Marr
(20,317 posts)They lined up... I believe it was seven short men, all 5'4" or under, IIRC. All were average looking, well educated, well dressed, nice, well spoken men with careers like doctor, lawyer, etc. One spoke seven languages. Then they added a 6'1", unemployed college drop out. Every single woman on the panel chose the drop-out. And these weren't 18 year olds, either-- they were 30-ish and above.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Some women obviously have a real problem with short men. In fact "cruel" is an understatement. Don't click the link unless you want to read some really nasty comments.
https://twitter.com/heightismwatch
CFLDem
(2,083 posts)I personally wouldn't consider a taller woman.
But those that can are bigger men than I.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)6 foot females are the norm in this family. Both my dad and brother are 6ft 7ins. Tallest man is 6"11.
The only thing that people has bothered me about height is how I must play basketball. How tall my man should be? Never mentioned. Marrying shorter people is pretty much bound to happen and no one has really questioned it as far as I can tell.
nolabear
(41,963 posts)We've about covered everything else, haven't we?
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)He would joke that he used to lie about his height and claim to be 5'3".
I had two other uncles, 5'5" and 5'7" and both of my aunts towered over them. My besf friend is 5'6" and his wife is 5'9". There are always exceptions to every 'rule'.
leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)thing is what is holding them back. generally when you act like something is not a big deal, it isn't treated like a big deal.
including not getting to date everyone who you'd like to. Move on, you didn't even know them, LOL.