Another Pope Quote . . .

[Triana]

Last edited Thu Jan 23, 2014, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

He REALLY did say this one - I checked this time: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/pope-francis-tells-davos-business-leaders-ensure-humanity-is-served-by-wealth-not-ruled-by-it-9076618.html



DISCLAIMER: I know we hate Pope and pope quotes (real or incorrectly attributed) because he's against gays and abortion and contraception. I don't agree with him on those issues. But I do on the one above.

[No Vested Interest]

1. Disclaimer: I don't hate Pope. nt

[Prophet 451]

2. I don't hate him, I just don't often agree with him

On the one hand: He's focusing the church on poverty, social exclusion and social justice issues. On that, I agree with him.

On the other hand: He's homophobic and anti-abortion and if he isn't personally sexist and anti-contraception, he heads a church that is. On those I vehemently disagree with him.

I don't hate him, as some here do. I just sometimes agree with him and sometimes don't.

[Triana]

3. Well said.

That's how I feel too.

[countmyvote4real]

4. +1

Well said.

[sabrina 1]

8. I don't hate him either and being the head of such a huge, ancient institution I never expected much

from at all on the issues that are important to me. Even if the individual held views contrary to the teachings of his church it would be almost impossible for him to state them openly right now. So he is starting where he can, going back to what the man Christians claim to follow and challenging them, especially the Right Wing contingency to stop being hypocrites, to stop judging people which he states they have no right to do, and went further than any other pope has on women and gays, saying 'who are we to judge' and to 'stop obsessing' about women and gays.

Nothing a pope might say would be disappointing to me or any leader of a large religious institution, but this pope has given me hope for the first time that maybe the first baby steps into the future are being taken.

And he's made people like Rick Santarum very sad. That alone is a plus.

[Prophet 451]

14. And doesn't that make everything worthwhile?

I know that pissing off conservatives is one of the great innocent pleasures of my life.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. I pity him, as I pity all who are stupid and neurotic enough to be bigoted against

LGBT people, women, or any group of people. Bigotry and intolerance is in the end a sad and damaging thing for those who hold it tight and worship it in place of love.
He's a sad man and those who promote his hate mongering ways as an acceptable way for one person to speak of other people are also very sad.

[rug]

30. That's very gracious of you.

[roguevalley]

5. if we follow that quote, 90% of the crap of life will disappear.

[Vashta Nerada]

6. ...says the Pope while the RCC is sitting on billions of dollars.

[AtheistCrusader]

7. Likely trillions in wealth.

It's been said, by very credible sources, that the true wealth of the church simply cannot be accounted.

[pnwmom]

9. Most of the "wealth" is in the real estate under its Churches and community service

buildings. It makes no more sense to criticize the Church for owning buildings for its services than any other group that owns buildings it uses.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. I'd love to see the balance and ledgers.

I see no reason to accept the claim of 'most' on its face.

[pnwmom]

12. The Catholic Church is led by individual dioceses headed by Bishops. The Vatican

Last edited Thu Jan 23, 2014, 03:51 AM - Edit history (1)

doesn't own or even control the financial holdings of individual parishes, so there is no giant ledger listing all Church property.

And how do you define Church property? Is the University of Notre Dame church property? Should it be sold and distributed to the poor? Should the local parish be sold and disbanded, leaving parishioners without a place to celebrate the Mass that brings them together?

http://caritasetveritas.com/2013/03/the-myth-of-vatican-wealth-on-helping-the-poor/

What about all the property of the Catholic Church across the globe? What about all of the various dioceses’ funds and land? Why can’t the Vatican sell some church buildings or something in the U.S., or in Ghana, or Japan, or elsewhere? Again, even if this were a good idea (which I do not think it is), the Vatican can’t do that. Just think for a minute about the history I have just recounted. Could the Vatican sell, for example, the University of Notre Dame? While I would think that to be a foolish and unwise move, the point is moot, since the Vatican does not own the University of Notre Dame. The University of Notre Dame was established in 1842, almost a century before Vatican City existed as a sovereign state. The concordat with Italy only gave the Vatican the patrimony within the Vatican and in parts of Rome like the Church of St. John Lateran. Italy didn’t have (nor does it have) the authority to give the Vatican land and property in the U.S. or in France, etc. The Congregation of the Holy Cross (a religious order) is responsible for the University of Notre Dame. What about local dioceses that are not under the responsibility of religious orders? They are, to quite a large degree, financially independent. If a bishop sells a church, so long as he is not breaking canon law, that bishop makes that decision, not the pope. Nor could the pope force a bishop to sell church property (as far as I’m aware). In addition, some of these Catholic organizations operate in buildings and on grounds not owned by Catholic dioceses or the organizations themselves, but rather by non-specifically-Catholic private foundations (on whose boards many non-Catholics may sit).

[Bluenorthwest]

19. The Vatican itself is a massive holder of commercial, high end real estate

Claiming the Vatican owns little or that it is all 'church buildings' is incorrect. They own bank buildings, offices, shops like the Bulgari store in Bond Street London. Why does God command them to own such things? Vatican itself owns tons of real estate like that. The monthly rents alone could do vast works of good if one desired to do good with the proceeds.
The Diocese of NY is the largest holder of Real Estate in NYC, interestingly such holdings are in the name of the top dog, in NY's case it is Timothy 'Cardinal' Dolan whose name sits on all of those deeds. Yep.
So what issue do you have with divestment of luxury buildings used purely for profit, places that sell jewelry and lavish indulgences?
The Vatican itself also owns vast holdings of stocks and bonds, around 20% of the entire Italian market it is said. Billions. The Vatican.
The Pope himself is given donations each year called 'Peter's Pence' which is quaint terminology for the tens of millions of dollars involved. Popes use this to 'do good' which usually means renovation of buildings. One recent year, the US alone gave 90 million to Peter's Pence.
So sure, they are mendicants, fill their bowls with rice and hope they do not freeze in the cold of the night!

[pnwmom]

28. I'd appreciate a link for that, please. Thanks. n/t

[colorado_ufo]

10. Give him time.

He may have plans that we do not know about. You don't change hundreds of years of doctrine, which millions of people still cling to, in a few weeks.

When I was a kid, in the highly Catholic area where I grew up (though I am not Catholic), NO schools, public or parochial, served meat for lunch on Friday - only fish. Which was ironically healthy. Now many Catholics don't even remember the prohibition against eating meat on Friday, and all schools serve meat.

Give it time. I am sure Pope Francis, who is nobody's fool, would like to live long enough to see many of his reforms take root. Martin Luther King Jr.'s memorial holiday this past Monday reminds us what a tightrope reformers walk.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Those who he opposes owe him nothing but opposition.

I don't have to give him time or any other thing. It is he who owes those of us he has attacked with vicious language for years on end, in country after country.
He claims to follow the Golden Rule, do unto others, so I see what he is doing unto my community and happily know that means that is the treatment he wants for himself. If he wants kindness, he should offer kindness. He offers libels and slanders, so any ethical person will answer him in the same manner, the manner he wants to be answered.
He says my family is from the devil. I say he's a bigoted idiot. And idiot can learn to not be an idiot, thus my words about him are far nicer than the eternal condemnation he spews at us.
I hope the idiot learns to stop being such a hate mongering ignoramus.

[Enthusiast]

13. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch.....nt

[SidDithers]

15. The Papal PR team at DU is working overtime...

Sid

[rug]

31. Yes, it must have taken him a good 20 seconds to say that.

[PeaceNikki]

16. "Hotbeds of tension and confrontation caused by the growing inequality between rich and poor

and the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic mentality also expressed by unregulated financial capitalism."

"the Pope called for a new economic model and ethical regulations for markets, saying the global financial crisis was proof that capitalism does not protect the weakest members of society."

Guess who said that.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Benedict said that.

nt

[PeaceNikki]

20. Indeed. Nothing new or revolutionary about Francis at all.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. I'm sort of amazed really. Benedict was also bigoted and sexist and all but even

I was aware of his extensive and often excellent writings on economic issues, globalization and poverty arising from globalization. He and Francis both say good things along those lines, just as they both say all the other vile hate speech and all. I have been surprised that so many of the seemingly sincere followers of Francis are so unaware of the reality of both men.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. And here's a fresh from yesterday's Anti Choice March Pope quote!!!!

Yesterday in DC there was the largest Anti Choice rally in history!!!!!! Francis tweeted his support, did you miss that? It's only fair to quote the scope and depth of his messages.
Did you attend this March?

"The world’s largest anti­abortion event, held on the anniversary of the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision, grows younger each year. The Mall between Seventh Street and the Washington Monument was full for a few hours with youth groups from across the eastern half of the country."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/thousands-of-abortion-foes-set-for-march-for-life-in-washington/2014/01/21/721bf578-830a-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html


"I join the March for Life in Washington with my prayers. May God help us respect all life, especially the most vulnerable," the Pope tweeted early Wednesday.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/pope-francis-tweets-march-life-washington-article-1.1587487

[PeaceNikki]

21. I don't care if he opposes abortion within his 'flock', but stay the fuck out of politics and

our secular rights, asshole.

(him, them... not you, natch)

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Tweeting out his support for the Republican Platform, Francis Superstar makes healdlines!

nt

[Barack_America]

26. Nope, sorry, we either agree with someone completely or we hates them.

Improvement is meaningless when perfection can still be achieved.

It's because we are the party of tolerance and acceptance.

[No Vested Interest]

27. How can a party of tolerance and acceptance

not be tolerant and accepting of imperfection?
Oxymoron?
Confusion?
When has perfection ever been achieved?

[Barack_America]

29. I neglected to use the sarcasm smilie.

[theHandpuppet]

32. "Imperfections"?

I'd like a little more clarification on what you define as imperfections, i.e., whether those are personal or institutional, and of what do they consist?

[No Vested Interest]

35. "Imperfection" = opposite of "perfection" as referred to in #26. nt

Edited to correct post #.

[theHandpuppet]

36. Sorry, that didn't answer my question.

I suppose this means I shouldn't hold my breath waiting, either.

[No Vested Interest]

37. Not a good idea to hold too long.

Sorry, not interested in accommodating you.
I've moved on to the rest of my life.
Got things to do, people to meet.

[theHandpuppet]

38. Nobody's perfect

I guess everyone's tolerance has limits, eh.

[LukeFL]

33. As a catholic. I love my new pope.

We needed someone like him.

[No Vested Interest]

34. Me too. nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

39. Says the absolute leader of one of the richest organizations on earth. Do you believe that

half the population is less than human? Are you a pederast on the run? Want millions to fall all over themselves in adulation for merely stating the self-evident, without all that pesky doing things? Have we got the place for you!

Go Pope!