HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » One Small Step. Should Sc...

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 09:12 PM

One Small Step. Should Scare the Hell Out of You.

Last edited Sat Sep 13, 2014, 06:17 PM - Edit history (1)

(This is a repost from four years ago, when Democrats generally agreed that ubiquitous spying was a bad thing. The article is even more relevant today.)

From observation to restriction. Your every move, your every purchase, your every email can be and is being tracked. Sometimes by the government, sometimes by a corporation; and the line between the two entities becomes less distinct every day. The potential for abuse is tempting to those who want power, and the tendency toward apathy is great for those who want a false sense of security. But the problem isnít with the technology; itís with the laws. The technology is here and improving every day, to rail against the inevitable would be as futile as using a bucket to hold back the tide. There has always been the possibility and even a propensity for abuse, (in some) even in the pre-industrial world. But we can thank those like Jefferson and Madison who insisted that individuals have a right to remain unmolested, as long as they were innocent of any crime, and for the fact that we were not spied upon at all hours of the day in the past. Itís time to stop taking those rights for granted while letting them slip away.

We already have the PATRIOT ACT, National Security Letters, and AT&T turning over our records with no warrant. Now the Justice Department wants to be able to track anyoneís movements with no warrant. Why are these things so important when the system put in place in 1978 already favored law enforcement? Why are they necessary if they wonít really be used? When set against economic injustice, environmental devastation and wars, the assault on civil liberties may seem to pale in comparison. But without true civil liberties, our ability to address those other problems is non-existent. Once it is accepted by the citizens that itís okay for the government to watch us all the time, as long as ďI have nothing to hideĒ we will have set ourselves up to have a society where the word Ďfreedomí will have no real meaning.

There are many people rightly upset by the continued assault on unions and the middle class in general, myself included. At a time when our insurance companies should have been permanently reined in, they are swelling their profits and their power. Legal bribery of our politicians has been expanded at a time when it needed to be eliminated. Legal raiding of our treasury is obvious enough to sicken any who care, and we have a massive portion of our country fighting against their own interests. And to me these things are linked to potential future abuses that are possible by limiting long established rights. And with wealth being held by a smaller and smaller portion of the population, there will naturally be some who will insist on tighter controls. (The Stasi and the KGB didnít need to spy on all people at all times, just enough of the population to let people know it was dangerous to step out of line. With advances in technology, almost total surveillance is possible.)

We have all seen first hand how quickly circumstances can change and how easily people can be manipulated. That alone should prod people into action. Some of the same people who ridiculed the burning of the Beatles albums in the 60ís, participated in the burning of the Dixie Chicks CDís in 2003. In a matter of months, the media was able to convince about half the nation of a complete falsehood - that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Support for torture increased, just by changing its name. Many people were, and still are, ready to cede the power of the Legislative and Judicial branches to the President, and were/are claiming, against all evidence, that doing so is the Most American position.

By ignoring the slow encroachment of government and corporations melding, and ignoring the erosion of the need for probable cause before surveillance, we risk losing the most important thing there is about being American.

Years ago someone explained to me that he thought society was analogous to a rock suspended over the ground by a rope. The ground represented authoritarianism and that was where society had a natural predisposition to fall. But there were people who were on the other end of that rope that made it there job to keep society as just as possible. The more people on that rope, the better.

We need to heed the warnings from years ago, from Orwell, Huxley and others and realize the future is already here.




http://www.wider.unu.edu/events/past-events/2006-events/en_GB/05-12-2006/

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gjCPfFdmocBeGyr_-lqmLC_3CfcAD9DQS4Q84

http://people.reed.edu/~gronkep/TortureWhitePaperV2.pdf

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/internal-report-finds-flagrant-national-security-letter-abuse-fbi

http://atlanticreview.org/archives/726-More-Americans-Believe-that-Saddam-Was-Directly-Involved-in-911.html

32 replies, 5865 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply One Small Step. Should Scare the Hell Out of You. (Original post)
20score Jan 2014 OP
punkin87 Jan 2014 #1
suede1 Jan 2014 #2
20score Jan 2014 #3
questionseverything Jan 2014 #19
woo me with science Jan 2014 #4
20score Jan 2014 #6
niyad Jan 2014 #5
Oilwellian Jan 2014 #7
20score Jan 2014 #14
Oscarmonster13 Jan 2014 #8
20score Jan 2014 #13
JDPriestly Jan 2014 #9
20score Jan 2014 #16
cantbeserious Jan 2014 #10
L0oniX Jan 2014 #11
blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #12
laundry_queen Jan 2014 #15
20score Jan 2014 #20
CFLDem Jan 2014 #17
20score Jan 2014 #18
marym625 Jan 2014 #21
20score Jan 2014 #22
marym625 Feb 2014 #26
frankowen7 Jan 2014 #23
woo me with science Feb 2014 #24
riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #25
20score Feb 2014 #28
liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #27
sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #29
Solly Mack Feb 2014 #30
woo me with science Feb 2014 #31
marym625 Sep 2014 #32

Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 09:21 PM

1. Big ass K & R!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 09:36 PM

2. Well done!!

I wonder if anyone who responded four years ago, will respond differently today?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to suede1 (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 10:01 PM

3. They haven't yet. Last time there were over 60 responses.

Last edited Wed Jan 29, 2014, 11:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Like to see what they have to say now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 10:29 AM

19. update on illegal parralel construction of evidence


Muhtorovís challenge has its roots in the case rejected by the Supreme Court last year. In deciding to dismiss, the Supreme Court relied upon the assurance by the U.S. solicitor general that the government would notify criminal defendants when it had used evidence from the surveillance.

But the solicitor general at the time did not know that the Justice Department had a policy to conceal such evidence from defendants. He learned of it only after some criminal defendants sought clarification of remarks that Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) made in late 2012 that the government had used evidence from warrantless monitoring in certain cases. The department reversed its policy last year.
/////////////////////////////////////////////

so the solicitor general presented false info to the supreme court????? because he did not know that justice department was (illegally) concealing evidence???

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/terrorism-suspect-challenges-warrantless-surveillance/2014/01/29/fb9cc2ae-88f1-11e3-a5bd-844629433ba3_story.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 10:02 PM

4. Thank you. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 10:37 PM

6. Welcome!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 10:12 PM

5. k and r and bookmarking to read later

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 10:56 PM

7. Indeed

By ignoring the slow encroachment of government and corporations melding, and ignoring erosion of the need for probable cause before surveillance, we risk losing the most important thing there is about being American.


K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Oilwellian (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 03:20 AM

14. Thanks.

Appreciated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 10:58 PM

8. Spot on

how sad/scary that this was true then, and is more so now.

I keep saying it: For all those who say "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about" or "I trust our POTUS to do the right thing" or "It's for our own good" ...realize that these actions by our government set a legal precedent that will continue to undermine our civil liberties for decades to come. And while some feel "safe" right now with a (D) in office...woe to us when that eventually is controlled by someone with far more sinister agendas...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Oscarmonster13 (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 12:39 AM

13. It's amazing how they think.

Or don't think, as the case may be. The power structure has to change.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 11:21 PM

9. K&R. Well said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 06:28 AM

16. Thanks!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 11:46 PM

10. Kick And Recommend

eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 11:53 PM

11. K & R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 12:03 AM

12. We have seen the enemy. And he is us.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 03:48 AM

15. enthusiastic K&R nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to laundry_queen (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 12:10 PM

20. Thanks!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 08:34 AM

17. K&R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CFLDem (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 08:53 AM

18. Thanks much!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 04:51 PM

21. I remember this

very well done. Very little you and I disagree about.

I will never understand apologists. People that defend things like the NSA and call themselves liberals, must not pay attention, lie or they're just plain stupid.

Major protests of the late 60s and early 70s were part of what helped bring change. One such protest was against the Democratic Party at the Convention in 1968. Those protesters were not a bunch of conservatives. We need to realize that "party line politics" no longer exists. It's all about the money and it's everywhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marym625 (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 05:15 PM

22. Well said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 11:45 PM

26. Thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Thu Jan 30, 2014, 07:41 PM

23. K&R!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 12:56 PM

24. kick

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 01:52 PM

25. Really great OP. Thanks for the memories... nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 11:54 PM

28. Thanks!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 11:47 PM

27. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 11:56 PM

29. I think must DUers still agree. A small few appear to change their minds according to 'who is doing

it' but most people know the difference between right and wrong and thanks to Snowden's revelations, and all the others before him, more Americans now understand what has been going on. As a result of the information getting to them, a majority oppose having their Constitutional Rights abused and violated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 11:56 PM

30. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Mon Feb 3, 2014, 12:29 PM

31. kick

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 20score (Original post)

Fri Sep 12, 2014, 11:03 AM

32. I think you should repost now. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread