General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs there a financial benefit to drafting Sam...
... To counter any potential losses?
madokie
(51,076 posts)would make him a damn good financial risk. Just say'n
There's a lot more of us who understand the mechanisms of sexuality that we can more than carry the load
I'll be paying attention to see what team picks him up and add them to my must watch list
malthaussen
(17,256 posts)My instinct is that the teams are going to avoid him like the plague.
-- Mal
clarice
(5,504 posts)look what happened to that player who said he was getting bullied.
madokie
(51,076 posts)I would think this speaks volumes to his self worth to the point that his stock will go up. After all it is money we're talking about and winning games is money
malthaussen
(17,256 posts)... as you say, we'll see. While sports ownership is largely about money, it is also about subordination and image. (which can also be about money, far be it from me to downplay the importance of the dollar)
-- Mal
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)To borrow a phrase i heard a lot growing up, whether you think you can or you can't you're right.
That might not be quantifiable, but it might still be seen as a benefit.
Bryant
malthaussen
(17,256 posts)But I think that the owners are more likely to believe that of someone they are comfortable with.
-- Mal
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)As it applies here - I'm guessing that Michael Sam's sexuality has no real impact on his ability to play the game, which he apparently does at a very high level (not a football fan I'm afraid). So all it takes is two owners to say "Yeah - screw that, I'm hiring that Sam kid because he's good." And he'll go up in the draft.
He will have to keep playing at a high level because a number of conservative sports fans are going to be going for him.
Bryant
malthaussen
(17,256 posts)Know it from reviews, word-of-mouth, etc.
You optimists may be right. But I am a cynical bugger. In every walk of life, there are far more talented and able people for a position than there are positions. Some of the best musicians I know, e.g., never got a recording gig. And sports are no exception, although there are those who will tell you that owners/managers whatever are only interested in winning at all costs.
Take Branch Rickey, for example, and an apposite one in this case. He was a heavy-duty Christian and teetotaler. There is an anecdote about him and Durocher that Bill James related in one of his books. Durocher found that giving a certain pitcher a belt of whisky before the game improved the guy's performance greatly. But when Rickey found out about it, he told Leo that the guy "would never play for Brooklyn again." Yet at the same time, as we know, it was Rickey who opened up the floodgates for black talent to play ball.
Owners can be weird, and they have the money to indulge that wierdety as they will.
-- Mal
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)I have seen Mel Kiper, Bill Polian, and Chris Mortensen all say this kid is a legit NFL player. If he isn't drafted there will be the mother of all media storms.
Roger Goodell is no idiot. He's going to let it be known, most likely informally, that the NFL will do everything within its power to support the franchise that drafts him.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)The only thing that should be used is his ability to play the game. If he is good then he should be hired and perhaps become one of the best. If he turns out like Tebow an average player then he will be gone in a few years. His homosexuality shold not have any Bearing whatsoever. I am gay and hope my boss evaluates me on results and that is it.
madokie
(51,076 posts)and I think his conviction to the game he will be just fine
It takes a lot to do what he had done so that tells me he is up to the task of proving himself on the field.
We can hope
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I agree with you 100 percent!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Lost_Count
(555 posts)... To hear what you think you "know."
Lost_Count
(555 posts)Shock...
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and it's more than implied that the negatives you're talking about are solely related to him being gay.
i owe you no explanation if that's how you're going to post, and if you're going to say things like you hoped the death penalty hurt (when the drugs didn't work correctly)...
do you deal with people while having thoughts like you hope the death penalty hurts and nobody should feel sorry if a drug user died of an overdose?
Lost_Count
(555 posts)... that's why it's a story.
They could be financial, team internal or affect society at large.
1) Financial - The team that picks him could lose a X% of their supporters. You might not care but the team owners do and it will affect their decision.
2) Team internal - It could split a team along their beliefs and affect their ability to perform. See #1 why this is important.
3) Sam could fail - either at the draft or he gets picked up and washes out of the NFL. Maybe he gets bullied out. His lack of success keeps others from speaking out because they don't want to end up like him and we go back to square one.
The first two affect the team and the NFL as a whole and will influence his ability to join. The third has even larger ramifications.
If it was all sunshine and rainbows, I don't think everyone would be talking about it non-stop. Do you? Maybe you do... Somehow I wouldn't be surprised.
Also, I'll try to get by with your stern looks of disapproval as I continue not to agonize over convicted murderers and people who choose heroin over their kids. I'll just take it day by day...
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)so what's your point?
Lost_Count
(555 posts)I'm actually impressed.
The rest of the adults will be having an actual conversation when you are ready.
Hint : if it was all the same for a straight player this wouldn't be a story.
Second Hint: If Johnny Manziel shits the bed he won't set the process of open gay integration in the NFL back by a few years so it really doesn't all apply.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)why haven't you posted that the presence of player of those or other background has negatives?
Lost_Count
(555 posts)It's there when you are ready.
I know that the subject makes you uncomfortable but if you insist on being deliberately obtuse then why are you even here? Literally everyone else is talking about why it is different and a first. That's the story...
Claiming that this is business as usual is asinine at best and ignorant at worst.
You can even talk about how and why he should be treated equally by everyone else but the story is that he isn't and he won't.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)as if not liking someone because they are gay is any more tolerable than not liking them for some other reason.
Lost_Count
(555 posts)2) Are you changing direction away from the first openly gay NFL player being the same as a Mormon?
Good for you...
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)because it would offend some people (because bigots...) and you're not sure if you can make up the money you'd lose from the bigots.
and as for comparing a Mormon player, among many evangelical Christians (which the NFL has many) who don't approve of Mormonism (polytheistic, etc.) to a gay player similarly outnumbered --I think once he's on a team, it will be as big of a deal as having Mormons there.
not a big deal at all.
it isn't a big deal at his college, it won't ultimately be a big deal in the NFL.
even in the military, not a big deal.
you need to stop worrying about the economics of doing the right thing. it looks like concern trolling the choosing of a gay player.
Lost_Count
(555 posts)You think the NFL and team owners "should" take on Sam even if it were to cost them financially. The reality is that they will look to their wallets first and will take him if, and only if, they see a potential to earn more money than if they had not taken him.
The adults in the room are talking about the likelihood that will occur and how it will happen. Having a pout fest with vague and unprovable insinuations of racism and bigotry just shows that you still lack a point.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)yet.
Lost_Count
(555 posts)Since you don't seem to have a point beyond trying to hint at things you can't prove.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)worthy of different standards of treatment and so forth?
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)why on earth would there be any negative issues with the NFL?
and what would they be anyway?
Lost_Count
(555 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)there is more benefit in drafting him only slightly higher than the next person who might draft him.
It's unfortunate but this will hurt his draft position and thus his earnings. It probably makes him undraftable for about half the teams in the league (The NFL has a serious institutionalized homophobia problem from fans to locker rooms to front offices. There are only a handful of teams where there would be no issue IMO.)...which means for the teams that would take him, he would be available later than he would be if he was straight.
My estimation--the Pats grab him in the 4th round because they think someone else would grab him before they had a chance in the 5th round. New England is a perfectly liberal place where nobody is going to give a shit if he's gay; all anybody in Foxboro cares about is if he wins football games for them.
Before this, he was projecting to a late 2nd to high 3rd. Right there, homophobia probably just cost him 1M in signing bonuses. I've seen the kid play...someone is getting a steal. He'll be an above-average pass-rusher at the NFL level as either a DE or weakside up OLB.
Lost_Count
(555 posts)I'm a casual fan of the NFL and am only vaguely aware of college ball.
It will be a balance between talent vs the added pressure that having him on the team will bring. I don't have a good feel for his level of skill and wondered if teams can get something comparable without the extra.
Thanks..
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)they've figured out ways before to deal with prejudice and integration, they can do it in this case.
and if they don't, the anti trust exemption should be taken from them.
in other words, if it costs HIM, it should cost THEM.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Which I think is a pretty safe assumption.
It s entirely possible that some people who make the decisions upon who to draft will want the first player who is out on their team.
I can't begin to speculate upon which team will draft him, but I think there is more in play here than what the haters in the locker room might think.
karadax
(284 posts)San Francisco would be a great fit. It could go a long way to repair the locker room image after that Culliver gay tweet prior to the Super Bowl they were in.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)OTOH...NYC or LA might be good for media exposure.
ETA: just realized: there IS no LA anymore.... is there?
So I guess it'll have to be Jets or Giants.
Gov. Crispie will be proud.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)He is too small for the defensive line, but there are alternate positions they could put him in.
If he plays well, there will be an ocean of endorsements headed his way. Thinking companies like Apple, Chevrolet - not to mention clothing lines - that would all jump at the chance of being 'first' to feature the gay athlete with their logos. The owner who agrees to pick him will be able to cash in huge on that.
That said - he has to be really really good, or it could be a bad bet in a lot of areas of this country.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)then it'll be blamed on his being gay, you can count on it.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)of the game. Not all college superstars can make it in the NFL. Kid is really really good, but he's about 255 and most defensive linemen are 300+. He's too small to continue in the position, so will have to see how well he picks up something different. People already know he is a great player, its not like he is an unknown.
Good to 'see' you!
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)that said, I wonder what his running back skills are like.
Good to 'see' you too!
Lost_Count
(555 posts)... but if he doesn't perform there is nowhere in this country that he will get hired on at.
Side question: How much of Kaepernick's (for example) endorsement money does a team or the league get?
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)dilby
(2,273 posts)The only financial benefits or negatives will be solely based on his game play. People will cheer for someone who wins football games, they don't care what his sexual preference is.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)and if his draft stock does indeed drop and he is drafted later than projected, the financial benefit will be to the team that picks him up. They will be getting 2nd/3rd round talent while only paying 4th-7th round salary. Manti Teo is a reasonable analog.
There is no real benefit to Sam, though, and that fact makes him even more brave and principled in my book. Were he to have kept silent, he would have stood to have made a significant amount of extra money.
However, I'm of the opinion that any NFL GM worth his salt will look solely at Sam's ability to help the team on the field when deciding whether to draft him or not. He may fall on media-hype-driven draft boards, but that bigotry may not extend to the actual decision makers on draft day.
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