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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:33 PM Feb 2014

SI Swimsuit aesthetic and Cosmo aesthetic are pretty much the same.

Last edited Sun Feb 16, 2014, 05:07 PM - Edit history (2)

The nutritional math of human beings:

In general (always exceptions) there is only so thin a woman can make herself while having large breasts.

This was a regulator governing our body aesthetic. The buxom waif was an oxymoron. We had flappers and waifs sometimes, and sweater girls and swimsuit models (once quite fleshy) as distinct types.

When wide social acceptance of breast implants biologically decoupled from the genetics and nutritional aspects of legs, butts and bellies we had the possibility of a large, replaceable population of tall women made only of muscle, yet "marked" as very female by the most display oriented of the female secondary sexual traits.

So out model-aesthetic was able to move into that, and men, for some ghastly reason, like that. But not as much as women do. Women really, really like the "lean boy with boobs" aesthetic.

One can get into special pleading about *why* women like it, but explanation is not contradiction. Whatever the cause, women are really into skeletons with boobs.

And if one objects that not *all* women think that, well duh. Not all anyone likes anything.

But if we extrapolate, as a useful generalization, "what men like" from a bunch of models then we must also extrapolate "what women like" the same way.

Watch the upcoming Olympic women's figure skating solos in a big crowd of people and keep track of who favors broader-based female body types. Hint: Men and women will tend to disagree on Kaetlyn Osmond versus Gracie Gold. Men are not foisting skinny butts on everyone. Men are, in fact, greatly influenced by fashion imagery.

And most images of women we grow up seeing, the definition of what a pretty lady is that culture gives us, are aimed at women and men alike.

And the great majority of consumption of images of females of the SI Swimsuit type is done by women.

And because we are so shaped by mass-media, I doubt that male and female aesthetics have ever been closer together than they are today.

Take fitness. Most contemporary Americans think female fitness looks good. That was not always the case. Any hint of exercise and hint of exposure to sun were once seen as lower class and masculine. A muscle on a woman was an undesirable aberration.

Today the only place we see unfit, unhealthy looking women as commodities is in female fashion magazines, but fit women are also welcome there. Men and women both like fit-looking women. That is our broad aesthetic. It was not always.

So in that sense SI is more female-friendly than Vogue. (Liking people to be healthy is friendly, versus the alternative.)

On the other hand, the breasts in SI (real and otherwise) will probably tend to be a little larger, so give Vogue a slight wholesomeness edge there. (But make no mistake, breast implants are super common in Vogue. Even the female-optimal breasts are not typical of someone who has not eaten anything but tic-tacs for a year.


Folks, it is our cultural body aesthetic, not something men in particular like. And it is quite compressed. Men and women do not vary widely on these aesthetic distinctions. (Not you and your friends... people. In aggregate. Consumers.)

So the problem is that, unlike a hundred magazines aimed at women that have the same content, SI has a male readership and thus it is feared that some man might enjoy looking at women who escaped from Vogue, into his magazine.




I find it a commidification more than objectification. As an artist I have no problem with objectification. Art objectifies. But when the object is a commodity that is a poor, crass sort of objectification.

And it appears that men and women (in broad culture, which is largely white culture) have largely come together on what the optimal comodified female is.

A six foot tall athlete turned anorexic with somewhat anomalous boobs.

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
1. every woman I know who got (or considered) a boob job, did it for male attention....
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:40 PM
Feb 2014

and was very upfront about it. whether it was one guy they were trying to make happy, or dudes in general, it was always the same discussion- the assumption being guys love em. many struggled with the fact that clothes wouldn't drape so well anymore, the idea of back aches and them getting in the way- or people judging them for doing it. But I never heard anyone claim it had nothing to do with guys- in fact everyone judge the success of the operation based on some guy "loving them". YMMV.

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
6. The only women I know who had "boob jobs" had breast reduction surgery.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 05:18 PM
Feb 2014

They did so to alleviate the pain that they were tired of living with. One of them was a secretary, and one was an exotic dancer that I was dating at the time.
But perhaps I'm not hanging out with the approved crew.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
9. approved crew? it's my job- I actually work with women's bodies so we are constantly having
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 05:33 PM
Feb 2014

conversations about what size women are (we try clothes on different sizes and shapes- but for models we hire we have to do very particular analysis- dozens of pics and measurements are analysed)- their proportions and how they vary from average, etc and these conversations happen daily- and for a lot of years. Women are very vocal about these things with each other, and it's interesting what we learn from it. Plastic surgery does not have the taboo at all it had 20 years ago, I will tell you that.

I have a friend who intends to get a reduction after having kids, her boyfriend says he is never ever getting her pregnant. I hope they resolve that one, because she is desperate for kids.

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
11. I apologize. I was WAY too unnecessarily snarky!
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 05:49 PM
Feb 2014

Your post was spot on, and I was wrong to respond as I did.

(Hanging out in GD is beginning to fuck with my head.)

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
14. thank you for that. it's an unusual amount of time I have to spend looking and dissecting women
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 06:02 PM
Feb 2014

and discussing with people what is average / ideal / etc. It is bizarre sometimes, I have to apologize for sizing up co-workers all the time, but I have to! A few years back I worked for a company that made very Cosmo / beauty pageant / sexy glitzy clothes. It was the first time anyone ever favored a model with multiple surgeries (traditionally they are well proportioned- but not thin like photographic models). That was kind of bizarre- but they decided their customers most often had boob jobs and liposuction and was heavily into Pilates (flat stomach), so that was what our model was, very plastic and Barbiesque. Every company has a vision of their customer, and it worked for them. But yeah, that was pretty weird.
Tks for the apology! *throws you an invisible heart*

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
2. Is there a shortage of places for men to ogle fashion models?
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:41 PM
Feb 2014

Is this magazine about sports...or fashion? If they don't want to seem like misogynists or hypocrites that run that rag...(and they don't want to be considered a rag I bet) then why don't they try putting sexy athletic women with actual muscle tone on the cover?

OregonBlue

(7,754 posts)
3. Not always true. I went to school with a girl that was very, very thin who had enormous breasts.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 04:43 PM
Feb 2014

That was in the 60's so I guarantee she did not have a boob job. So while that normally applies, not always the case. She did look sort of top heavy and was a cheerleader who found it pretty uncomfortable during all that jumping. On the other hand, she was not actually very pretty but was very popular with the guys.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
8. My youngest daughter
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 05:22 PM
Feb 2014

5'7" and 115 Lbs.

No hips but is a DD. And she is the sweetest human I know.

Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

dawg

(10,624 posts)
13. I'm probably going to be in that one next year, once my divorce goes through.
Sun Feb 16, 2014, 05:53 PM
Feb 2014

Although I probably do need to face the fact that I am getting older. The grey in my hair is beginning to show. I might top out at #57 or 56 and not make the cut after all.

Oh well. It'll be close either way.

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