Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 07:38 PM Feb 2014

The next civil war is coming. It is almost inevitable.

And it will be not unlike the first American civil war - but this time it will be conservative vs. liberal. Actually it will be heavily armed and dangerous morons against the sane people of this country. It just seems that the heavily armed dangerous morons tend to vote republican. Most sane, or educated, or well traveled people tend to vote for a saner party. The tea-party(R) destroyed the Republican party and I will forever be in their debt.

If they want to fight, they should be reminded that we currently control the nukes. (now THAT is ).

165 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The next civil war is coming. It is almost inevitable. (Original Post) AAO Feb 2014 OP
There will be civil unrest due to food and water shortages as climate change takes hold Auggie Feb 2014 #1
Just judging from what's going on in CA with water, we're heading there, probably. n/t RKP5637 Feb 2014 #2
A perfect storm is brewing Auggie Feb 2014 #10
Inevitable class war davekriss Feb 2014 #15
Yep Auggie Feb 2014 #19
Agreed. Much more likely than "lib vs con," IMO. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #74
It will be the rich and middle class vs. the poor if anything. former9thward Feb 2014 #90
Yes Something like that Auggie Feb 2014 #110
Climate change worsened by Republicons going AWOL from reality & responsibility Berlum Feb 2014 #97
this ^^^ magical thyme Feb 2014 #126
Probably not. I think we'd see a Constitutional Convention before that Lurks Often Feb 2014 #3
Republicans are pushing for that in many states already CatholicEdHead Feb 2014 #31
they want the Handmaid's Tale stg81 Feb 2014 #33
Or worse. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #94
If only they knew what the Handmaid's Tale was. pangaia Feb 2014 #105
Which is why I'm 150% against the idea. Initech Feb 2014 #102
And, the end of the US. We would just be a third world knuckle dragging place as the RKP5637 Feb 2014 #128
Republicans have already killed 200,000+ seattledo Feb 2014 #111
Would it actually pass anything, or end in complete disarray quaker bill Feb 2014 #125
I don't think we've reached that point yet Lurks Often Feb 2014 #127
A Constitutional Convention any time now would be a disaster CanonRay Feb 2014 #130
if ever the should be a flashpoint for a new civil war, a constitutional convention would be it. unblock Feb 2014 #152
Disagree, since it is laid out in law, it might the only peaceful Lurks Often Feb 2014 #156
i'm not expecting "results" from a constitutional convention other than more acrimony unblock Feb 2014 #157
Acrimony is the current state of politics these days. n/t Lurks Often Feb 2014 #158
indeed. that's why i think a constitutional convention won't help. unblock Feb 2014 #159
As much as the Kroch Bros. want to overthrow our Wellstone ruled Feb 2014 #4
Unrec. Ridiculous hyperbole. FSogol Feb 2014 #5
No it isn't. Throd Feb 2014 #6
That's mind-bogglingly silly. Codeine Feb 2014 #7
Dumb premise Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #8
+100000000 aristocles Feb 2014 #54
+100,000,000 Auntie Bush Feb 2014 #66
Civil War II: Electric Boogaloo Initech Feb 2014 #101
LOL!!! bravenak Feb 2014 #144
All the militias and gun nuts combined and coordinatedwould not last a week... gordianot Feb 2014 #9
If there were serious food or water shortages the federal government would not stand a chance. former9thward Feb 2014 #91
What I described would be an insurrection not a civil war over ideology. gordianot Feb 2014 #115
BRING. IT. ON. (mutherf/ckers) blkmusclmachine Feb 2014 #11
I've never seen the split between Americans this bad except for the Vietnam War era. IMO, before AlinPA Feb 2014 #12
why would they secede? grasswire Feb 2014 #26
Good point, but it's a "What's The Matter With Kansas" type thing and religious fanaticism. AlinPA Feb 2014 #27
they are too stupid to comprehend this reality stg81 Feb 2014 #35
Not happening. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #13
Only in a Second Amendment absolutist's billh58 Feb 2014 #14
Nope. zappaman Feb 2014 #16
Don't burst the bubble... greytdemocrat Feb 2014 #18
Are you in Colorado by chance? XRubicon Feb 2014 #17
No, but don't think I'm not seriously contemplating it. AAO Feb 2014 #20
Thank you all for responding! AAO Feb 2014 #21
I see this coming too. deaniac21 Feb 2014 #22
I don't know about "civil war"...but we are less politically stable than many think... First Speaker Feb 2014 #23
As I told my son today AAO Feb 2014 #28
Of the current "militias" in this country, 95% won't leave their mom's basement, and the rest are chrisa Feb 2014 #24
I'm just a pro-2A lefty, but this is a amusing, in a hyperventilating way. Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #25
We are teetering on republican or democratic control. airplaneman Feb 2014 #29
Now THAT's what I'm talkin about! AAO Feb 2014 #34
there are a lot of very evil people in this country, and it would be foolish to ignore that stg81 Feb 2014 #36
That is it, right there. Millions will die as intended by the RWNJs. n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #45
The veneer of society is very thin. L0oniX Feb 2014 #63
Conservative v Liberal = City v Rural bvar22 Feb 2014 #30
Well put, imo, but I'd amend slightly thus: Ghost Dog Feb 2014 #55
from what i've seen from the police these last 5 to ten years here RedstDem Feb 2014 #56
Yep, so I see. Ghost Dog Feb 2014 #57
It's called a thin blue line for reason... Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #62
Your posts 25. and 62. seem to contradict one another. (nt) Paladin Feb 2014 #71
In what way? Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #76
People in the sticks can grow their own food and have access to water Aerows Feb 2014 #98
That is one of the reasons ... bvar22 Feb 2014 #100
If you can have a garden Aerows Feb 2014 #103
people can't even bother to get up to vote, you think they will go into war? La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2014 #32
For a civil war, you need a split in the military, either by region or by branch FarCenter Feb 2014 #37
I think a civil war doen't necessarily have to involve the military AAO Feb 2014 #38
Vigilantes may be able to restore order fairly quickly FarCenter Feb 2014 #47
problems with calling a disciplined force or "Never start a fire that you cannot put out." RegexReader Feb 2014 #82
The record of civil disturbances in the US doesn't include grandmothers rebelling FarCenter Feb 2014 #88
The American Civil War never ended. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #39
That is a big part of it as is religious fundamentalism. AAO Feb 2014 #40
Sane person here, with six guns Loaded Liberal Dem Feb 2014 #41
Great - we're going to need people with heavy firepower. AAO Feb 2014 #43
So I need to go out, buy a bunch of assault rifles and arm myself? Packerowner740 Feb 2014 #83
I don't have any intention of buying a weapon. AAO Feb 2014 #85
What will we 'need heavy fire power' for B2G Feb 2014 #151
You really want to use nukes? Now that's ridiculous. AAO Feb 2014 #160
If there ever was another civil war, it'd be between the haves and have-nots. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #42
Well, yeah, but that would be a very short one. AAO Feb 2014 #44
It will be between the greedy and the needy. Auntie Bush Feb 2014 #68
We should get one of those wheels from the fair madville Feb 2014 #46
I think that's very, very unlikely indeed. sibelian Feb 2014 #48
"almost inevitable"= not inevitable. onenote Feb 2014 #49
The sooner the better! markmyword Feb 2014 #50
100% Correct wocaonimabi Feb 2014 #58
divisionist crap marions ghost Feb 2014 #133
This message was self-deleted by its author wocaonimabi Feb 2014 #135
Divisionist crap marions ghost Feb 2014 #134
We stand together or we die by the millions. aquart Feb 2014 #51
If only I were that powerful. AAO Feb 2014 #59
We will not only die by the millions but we will Auntie Bush Feb 2014 #70
It all depends on your definition of civil war. defacto7 Feb 2014 #52
I think you are more likely see it on Netflix. MMcGuire Feb 2014 #53
We did. Atlas Shrugged II L0oniX Feb 2014 #64
See there you go! MMcGuire Feb 2014 #87
No. The demographics, if nothing else, disallow a Civil war to happen in the U.S. nt ladjf Feb 2014 #60
So long as it doesn't delay the 3rd season of Continuum, that's fine with me. randome Feb 2014 #61
Please include The Voice... L0oniX Feb 2014 #65
There are some fascists on this site who death would be preferable Jetboy Feb 2014 #67
Your statement contains no irony Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #77
I would seriously doubt it. Our divisions are mostly about advertising and Marr Feb 2014 #69
We have two such "culturally-defining, human rights issue like slavery" issues demwing Feb 2014 #73
I'm more inclined to see a (largely peaceful) breakup of the union. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #72
Your vision is what is needed. former9thward Feb 2014 #96
I say bring it on.... ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2014 #75
Reading DU... NobodyHere Feb 2014 #78
How I hear you on that! AAO Feb 2014 #79
Yeah CFLDem Feb 2014 #80
Lol CFLDem Feb 2014 #81
My money is on arely staircase Feb 2014 #84
Class war, not civil war Corruption Inc Feb 2014 #86
The problem is nukes are not smart bombs. former9thward Feb 2014 #89
Police and military would crush those gunshow hillbillies no problem mwrguy Feb 2014 #92
You do realize.... BuzzKillington Feb 2014 #121
"we currently control the nukes." Enthusiast Feb 2014 #93
Better than being controlled by the 'baggers AAO Feb 2014 #112
That's why we need a strong liberal leftist government. Because RW lunatics Zorra Feb 2014 #95
You had better hope not Frytruk33 Feb 2014 #99
I served XRubicon Feb 2014 #108
You're right is does Frytruk33 Feb 2014 #109
In what capacity BuzzKillington Feb 2014 #122
Im going to assume you wont be around long enough to warrant XRubicon Feb 2014 #136
Why? BuzzKillington Feb 2014 #139
my call for war? XRubicon Feb 2014 #140
Actually..... BuzzKillington Feb 2014 #141
Who is crying out for war? AAO Feb 2014 #113
Half the fools replying to this thread Frytruk33 Feb 2014 #114
Well, you responded to me - I never called for war. I'm just a soothsayer. AAO Feb 2014 #131
Link? RandiFan1290 Feb 2014 #124
I've got my pitchfork ready! democratisphere Feb 2014 #104
yep and the Morans will lose Pharaoh Feb 2014 #106
This seems silly to me considering sadoldgirl Feb 2014 #107
Exactly, the Government would not even have to exert much force and it would be very quiet. gordianot Feb 2014 #116
If there will be a civil war it won't be ideological... Springslips Feb 2014 #117
I tend to think of climate change and resources as economic. You do make a good point. gordianot Feb 2014 #118
Yes. Springslips Feb 2014 #119
The strife will be personal one against the other, this just invites government to step in. gordianot Feb 2014 #120
Pfft! Let the rednecks try it - & the Union Army will go all William Tecumseh Sherman on their asses Adenoid_Hynkel Feb 2014 #123
lol. you can find the same divisive shit on freeperville. almost cali Feb 2014 #129
Divisive? How is my OP divisive? Maybe to teabaggers, but they shouldn't be here. AAO Feb 2014 #132
Glad you brought this up.. adavid Feb 2014 #137
Glad you brought this up.. adavid Feb 2014 #137
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2014 #142
Not going to happen. dilby Feb 2014 #143
Not flame bait if it is possible. I think it is, you don't. Stalemate. AAO Feb 2014 #145
Agree there will not be a civil war, but if a Democrat is elected as President in 2016, the AlinPA Feb 2014 #148
. MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #146
I wish I could be so naive. AAO Feb 2014 #162
Conspiracy theories do not prove you to be right MO_Moderate Feb 2014 #164
I didn't get anything from a "hyper partisan website". AAO Feb 2014 #165
secret fantasies based on hack-authored, badly-written sci-fi novellas LanternWaste Feb 2014 #147
more like, second "great depression" and progressive revival.... steve2470 Feb 2014 #149
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2014 #150
We should surrender and let them secede and elect a Duck Dynasty. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2014 #153
No, I don't think so. HappyMe Feb 2014 #154
Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #155
Another good reason we should remain progressive on the 2A. ileus Feb 2014 #161
Yes, please stay together AAO Feb 2014 #163

Auggie

(31,267 posts)
1. There will be civil unrest due to food and water shortages as climate change takes hold
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 07:41 PM
Feb 2014

but not an actual civil war.

Auggie

(31,267 posts)
10. A perfect storm is brewing
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 08:01 PM
Feb 2014

• Food and water shortages brought on by climate change.

• Ever increasing division of wealth between the 1% and 99%.

• An increase in poor but well-armed people.

• Plutocracy, thanks to Citizens United.

It'll be rich vs. poor.



 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
74. Agreed. Much more likely than "lib vs con," IMO.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:17 PM
Feb 2014

In fact, that long-running political dichotomy seems to be (very slowly) giving way to the more-relevant distinction between haves and have-nots. Probably because they "haves" are growing fewer, but have accumulated more...they're not even pretending to care if the rest of us live or die any more.

former9thward

(32,224 posts)
90. It will be the rich and middle class vs. the poor if anything.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:32 PM
Feb 2014

Numbers and money are pretty unbeatable.

Berlum

(7,044 posts)
97. Climate change worsened by Republicons going AWOL from reality & responsibility
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:53 PM
Feb 2014

That's why you have to laff when they call themselves 'conservatives' Bwaa ha ha ha. They are like hell.

They are Republicons are Radical Regressives (RRR), with no moral fiber whatsoever.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
126. this ^^^
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 08:41 AM
Feb 2014

civil war? fat chance.

All of the FEMA camps stories they like to fantasize about are likely based on the government preparing for fallout from climate change.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
3. Probably not. I think we'd see a Constitutional Convention before that
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 07:51 PM
Feb 2014

The real question is would the Federal government acknowledge the decisions of the Constitutional Convention and would they prevent the break up of the 50 states through force if some states refused to acknowledge the result of the Constitutional Convention and wished to leave the United States.

CatholicEdHead

(9,740 posts)
31. Republicans are pushing for that in many states already
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 10:04 PM
Feb 2014

The Religious Right wants to rewrite the constitution.

Initech

(100,182 posts)
102. Which is why I'm 150% against the idea.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 06:14 PM
Feb 2014

You want the American Taliban changing the constitution to what they want? You can kiss all the progress we've made on gay rights, women's rights, and workers rights goodbye. It would literally take us back to the dark ages.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
128. And, the end of the US. We would just be a third world knuckle dragging place as the
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 08:57 AM
Feb 2014

rest of the world sailed by the US, which is already happening. The US had a good run of it after WWII, but blew it by embracing Reaganism. Now, the American Taliban wants to destroy what is left. Most, would start leaving the US, much as many saner people now avoid certain areas.

I think the US will eventually regionalize with some areas being just fly-over with knuckle draggers roaming below. The US has no capture of intelligence and great discoveries.

I think many Americans, especially the foolish Tea Baggers, fail to realize is many of the advancements in the world did not come from the US. And, great advancements do come from a few people, the rest are just followers, and all of the great achievers did not come from the US! If, the US takes a harder right turn, the US will find itself a dust bowl of humanity.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
127. I don't think we've reached that point yet
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 08:56 AM
Feb 2014

so it will depend on what drives us to that point. Off the top of my head, a definitive ruling on the Commerce Clause that is heavily in favor of the Federal government could be one of the triggers

I certainly don't remember states pushing back against the Federal government quite like this though. Desegregation was probably the closest, but that occurred before I was born.

You have states from both sides of the political spectrum passing laws that conflict or have conflicted with existing Federal law, with pot, same sex marriage and firearms being the most prominent of the issues.

CanonRay

(14,167 posts)
130. A Constitutional Convention any time now would be a disaster
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 09:37 AM
Feb 2014

and would end in miserable failure and name-calling. We'd end up more divided than before, if that is possible.

 

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
156. Disagree, since it is laid out in law, it might the only peaceful
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 07:46 PM
Feb 2014

way for the country to break up, if a break up was to occur. Of course that would depend on whether a President (of either party) would honor the results of a Constitutional Convention.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
4. As much as the Kroch Bros. want to overthrow our
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 07:52 PM
Feb 2014

system of Government,it won't happen. Like the unrest over food and water,but,thinking the 1%ers have the Navy Dept on notice to pounce,sounds more plausible. Nobody in their right mind is going to challenge the National Guard,yah I know,there will be a few dolts who will try,cannon fodder. I'am thinking things will start will the average Joe and Jane American are going to hit the Banks and Big Companies with cyber attacks. Bingo!!!!!

gordianot

(15,272 posts)
9. All the militias and gun nuts combined and coordinatedwould not last a week...
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 08:01 PM
Feb 2014

When the Federal authorities cracked down and yes disarm them if they so desired or needed to restore order. This not to say civil unrest is a possibility as shortages in fuel, food, water become apparent or the criminals on Wall Street cause another financial crash. Hungry people easily become desperate people.

former9thward

(32,224 posts)
91. If there were serious food or water shortages the federal government would not stand a chance.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:37 PM
Feb 2014

Against tens of millions of desperate people? Please...

gordianot

(15,272 posts)
115. What I described would be an insurrection not a civil war over ideology.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 10:20 PM
Feb 2014

By the time the United States got into being unable to provide food governments every where would be in serious trouble. Even then the United States federal government has vast resources to project order at their discretion. Some ass with an assault rifle who thinks they stand a chance against the Government has the mentality of a pedophile, washed up, pants shitting, rock guitarist, spokesman from the NRA.

So where ever there is a survivalist, secessionist who objects to the Government over ideology and does not think they will be rolled over with impunity; ignores the decades of planning by a Government that contemplated its own utter destruction in a Holocaust. Civil war in America forget it no matter how much you despise those in power.

AlinPA

(15,071 posts)
12. I've never seen the split between Americans this bad except for the Vietnam War era. IMO, before
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 08:09 PM
Feb 2014

there is an actual civil war we will see red states seceding. The right wing teabaggers have not yet gone to violence as I had earlier expected they would, but if a Democratic candidate wins the next presidential election, the crazies could explode. It would be a matter for law enforcement, not a civil war.

billh58

(6,635 posts)
14. Only in a Second Amendment absolutist's
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 08:17 PM
Feb 2014

wet dream. First of all, contrary to what the NRA apologists believe, there are not enough gun nuts (not to be confused with gun owners) to form even a small militia. Secondly, there would be no cause celebre to rally around as NRA followers tend to be just that: followers.

And last of all, who would lead the charge against the US Government -- Ted Nugent, Rush Limbaugh, Rand Paul?...

It would be gratifying, however, to see an armed group of simpletons attempt to stir up a civil war. For the history books, we could name it the 2-hour war.

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
21. Thank you all for responding!
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 08:49 PM
Feb 2014

I may have been a bit too paranoid. Anyway, it was an interesting question, I thought.

First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
23. I don't know about "civil war"...but we are less politically stable than many think...
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 09:06 PM
Feb 2014

...and here's a simple example. 2016, 2020--we have another razor-thin election. What happens if the Repubs try and steal another one, especially if they have fewer popular votes? What if Scalia and Thomas are *still* on the Court, and decide again in favor of the Republican? Think it couldn't happen again? I do. Would the Dems just sit back and take it next time? I believe another crisis of that sort would seriously test our whole system, much more than 2000 did.
Or just look at the crazy laws the GOP is pushing in the states. The sheer hatred of the poor, the helpless, and of course women and minorities...what if they ratch up the attacks on voting rights? I believe there will be a breaking point if they do, and it might well trend towards violence. Stolen elections, suppression of voting...anyone think that couldn't lead to a Venezuela/Ukraine type of crisis here?
One more--nullification. This is openly becoming respectable in state GOP circles. This has not been an issue in the US since Appomattox. If it becomes one again, the very legitimacy of the Constitutional system will, in my opinion, be up for grabs. No President could tolerate it for long. Could you imagine the reaction of the Repubs, and the right in general, if a state *should* "nullify" a law, and the Kenyan Muslim Commie President should take action against that state? Think that's impossible? I don't.
I believe that today's GOP is quite literally trying to turn the US into a de facto one-party authoritarian state. Of course they don't *say* this--no one carries a sign saying, "I am a fascist". But their actions, especially in the state legislatures, certainly indicate this. And no one can deny their contempt for liberal democracy. Either they succeed, or they will have to be stopped. And if they keep rigging the game, "stopping" them by peaceful means might become impossible. When that happens, God knows what might occur in this country. But we are further down the path of authoritarian, Disneyfied "democracy" than I would have thought possible.

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
28. As I told my son today
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 09:57 PM
Feb 2014

Some of the more virulent teabag types think the US would be better if they rounded up and put all liberals int FEMA camps. And since the majority of black Americans are liberals, they get an added bonus to tickle their racist bones. Problem with their little pipe dream is if they get rid of all the liberals they would quickly turn the US into the Soviet Union. Twenty-five years from the destruction of the Soviet Union, to it's resurrection right here in what used to be "the good ol' USA". It would be a certainty.

chrisa

(4,524 posts)
24. Of the current "militias" in this country, 95% won't leave their mom's basement, and the rest are
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 09:11 PM
Feb 2014

e-warriors.

They've been "ready" for years. They're full of shit.

airplaneman

(1,245 posts)
29. We are teetering on republican or democratic control.
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 09:58 PM
Feb 2014

2014 and 2016 will be pivotal for the next generation. If the Republicans win we are finished and we will sea oceans of poverty spread throughout this country. If the Democrats win we can still not win unless we get an FDR type democrat in and sweeping populist change. We must be successful voting the Republicans out of existence and get a strong popular movement for FDR type change. If not there will be 10's of millions of people homeless in the streets with 10's of millions more seeing this as their fate. We will see riots, shootings, and suicide bomber as huge number of people see no hope for the future add to this the possibility of the collapse of farming with global warming - I don't think people realize how quickly things can degrade into anarchy.
-Airplane

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
34. Now THAT's what I'm talkin about!
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 10:07 PM
Feb 2014

Many people seem to be oblivious to the darker side of human nature. The side of themselves and others they've never had the misfortune to see. I have seen what desperate people can do. If things get to a tipping point, I wouldn't want to appear on the street as anything but a beggar, someone with nothing you'd want. It's survival, and you need to be creative, and you need to have an escape plan. Yes, it's true, I'm in my basement eating cheetos - but it's my house and my mom doesn't live here.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
30. Conservative v Liberal = City v Rural
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 09:58 PM
Feb 2014

...and that is WHY we won't have anything like the last Civil War.
If we are lucky,
we will have a Ballot Box Revolution like in Latin America.

They have given us the Blue Print for a near bloodless revolution.
When the Working Class and The Poor realize we have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the 1% and their Mouth Pieces in Washington,
THEN we can have change too.

The real strife in THIS country is RICH v Everyone else.
Trying to draw Battle Lines across the country based on Geography instead of Wealth is counter productive,
and will only delay the inevitable.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
55. Well put, imo, but I'd amend slightly thus:
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 04:57 AM
Feb 2014

"When the Working Class and The Poor realize..." --> When the Working Class and The Poor and most of the so-called Middle Class realize...

"The real strife in THIS country is RICH v Everyone else. " --> The real strife in THIS country is RICH and CORRUPT v Everyone else.

And I'd add: It's important never to lose sight of basic principles regarding Rule of (Just) Law. As we're seeing today in the Ukraine, and as one can see by studying the Cuban and other Revolutions and similar processes of socio-political Transition such as that of modern Spain, it's important to win the hearts and minds of Police and Military Rank and File and most of the Officer Class; and it's good to have most of the Judiciary on your side too.

(Following your model of Capitalisation used above) <g>

 

RedstDem

(1,239 posts)
56. from what i've seen from the police these last 5 to ten years here
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:40 AM
Feb 2014

if the people need their support, we will be totally f*cked.
they've been acting like loose cannons for too long now.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
57. Yep, so I see.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:49 AM
Feb 2014

So, that part of "winning hearts & minds" needs working on...

Could one say the same about some sections of the USAF also?

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
62. It's called a thin blue line for reason...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 10:46 AM
Feb 2014

In the event of even moderate wide-spread dislocation, street protests, and riots, local police forces will be too weak to prevent it. Reliance on some form of military action (constituted or mercenary) will come quickly. Hence, the feverish GWB Unitary Presidency plan, and the near-success in eliminating the Posse Comitatus Act (around the time of Katrina).

One thing the Arab Spring, Ukraine, and a host of other earlier uprisings has taught: When something like Kent State or Jackson State occurs, that is the Beginning, not the culmination, of a movement, and we will Then face the question of Who's side are you on?

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
98. People in the sticks can grow their own food and have access to water
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:54 PM
Feb 2014

People in the city? Not so much.

Frankly, before it happens here, it's going to happen in China and India. If you think it's a powder keg here with Urban vs. Rural, those two nations are teetering on the edge of a razor.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
100. That is one of the reasons ...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 06:10 PM
Feb 2014

...why my Wife & I moved to The Woods surrounded by National Forest in 2006,
and started growing our own food.
We also keep chickens and HoneyBees,
and our water comes from a Mountain spring in the back yard.

...but the MAIN reason we chose to do this is that we are just Old Hippies,
who enjoy the independent, sustainable, Earth Friendly Lifestyle.
Wall Street can live or die without our money or concern.

We planted another Peach Tree yesterday,
and cleaned out the Strawberry and Asparagus beds.
The HoneyBees are already getting busy,
and the Daffys are poking up.
The signs are good for an Early Spring.


 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
103. If you can have a garden
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 06:16 PM
Feb 2014

have one. If you can keep a chicken coop, keep one. If you drink milk? Have some goats. That way, when the SHTF, you have a valuable commodity.

I think Indians and Chinese urbanites are going to learn that very much sooner than anticipated with the way their economies are structured and the way that water and land availability is going. You can live in a square box that is 100ft. total. You can work 18 hours a day with single-minded determination. What you can't do is survive without food and drinkable water.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
37. For a civil war, you need a split in the military, either by region or by branch
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 10:13 PM
Feb 2014

I don't think that there are the necessary factions in the military to create the preconditions for civil war. Recall that in the Civil War, there were West Point graduates among the generals on both sides.

Governments are learning that insurrections must be nipped in the bud. The real lesson of Tianamen Square is that you call in a disciplined force and put down the insurrection with overwhelming casualties. If you screw around, you get Egypt or Syria or Ukraine.

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
38. I think a civil war doen't necessarily have to involve the military
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 10:22 PM
Feb 2014

Just civilians against civilians. No standing armies, just local groups of terrorists that will try to hunt down liberals. We, in order to defend ourselves will need to be as prepared as they will be. I'm not making this shit up! It won't be pretty, there will BE NO uniforms, and the freeking police and national guard will be constantly in the wrong place at the wrong time. You see, no one will be trying to fight them.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
47. Vigilantes may be able to restore order fairly quickly
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 11:24 PM
Feb 2014
Ukraine’s West, Crucible for Protest and Model of New Order

LVIV, February 22 (Howard Amos, RIA Novosti) – As battles raged on the streets of Ukraine’s capital in the bloodiest week of a three month-long uprising, the city of Lviv was already installing a new order.

Lviv, situated about 500 kilometers west of Kiev, has served as a crucible for the movement that looked Saturday to have chased President Viktor Yanukovych from government, or at least out of the capital.

As news emerged of dozens killed in fighting in Kiev on Wednesday, a jittery calm had descended on Lviv, a city of 730,000 people near the Polish border.

Later that day, crowds of men in regular civilian clothes gathered to form self-organized protection squads to replace the policemen that had fled after a spasm of anti-government rage in the city.


http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140222/187790574/Ukraines-West-Crucible-for-Protest-and-Model-of-New-Order.html

RegexReader

(416 posts)
82. problems with calling a disciplined force or "Never start a fire that you cannot put out."
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 02:21 PM
Feb 2014

If you're thinking that the US Army is going to blindly shoot down the Tea Party, you really need to take a look at the demographics of the typical 11B(infantryman). You would be asking them to shoot their own grandmothers. If anything, such an event would cause the US Army to consider its oath to the Constitution very seriously and regard those that ordered the massacre to be wolf bane and would support them in restoring order with their choice of POTUS placed in the Oval Office.

All of this is just mental masturbation to think that the conservatives would start the violence. If they were prone to violence as a lot of poster's fantasies indicate here, there would be bullet ridden smoldering Prius's with Obama stickers littering the highways and byways of America right now. If anything, the conservatives have a lot more to fear from the left given that everyone of the mass shooting sprees in the past 10 years were done by someone with progressive views or grew up in a house with progressive parents.

What you should fear is that someone that has what would be regarded by the Tea Party as extreme leftist views posted on their FaceBook and other social media do a mass shooting at a Tea Party demonstration. Have 20 or so grandmothers gunned down and their grandkids just got back from Afghanistan. Then have some news commentator comment that 'they had it coming for being extremist'. Yeah, like my grandfather warned me off when I was a small boy, "Never start a fire that you cannot put out."


The focus needs to be on what everyone can do to heal this rift rather than wonder where/how far it can go.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
88. The record of civil disturbances in the US doesn't include grandmothers rebelling
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:27 PM
Feb 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States

A quick scan of the more notable incidents doesn't reveal any where the police, national guard or army failed to respond to civilian political command.
 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
39. The American Civil War never ended.
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 10:31 PM
Feb 2014

The leaders of the Confederacy surrendered and victory was declared, but the schism still exists.

And the schism isn't regional or spiritual, it authoritarian vs. egalitarian, coercion vs. cooperation.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
151. What will we 'need heavy fire power' for
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:49 PM
Feb 2014

If we control the nukes?

This whole thread is ridiculous.

madville

(7,413 posts)
46. We should get one of those wheels from the fair
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 11:12 PM
Feb 2014

A section for economic and social class, race, religion, political affiliation, etc. Spin it and that can be the cause of the hypothetical civil war topic of the day.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
48. I think that's very, very unlikely indeed.
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 11:41 PM
Feb 2014

Hundreds of thousands of lives were spent in the previous war keeping the Union together. It would be a really stupid idea. Far, far too stupid even for the currently crack-addled Republicans.

markmyword

(180 posts)
50. The sooner the better!
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:43 AM
Feb 2014

Conservatives vs liberals or the western and southern states vs the northern states and California or Republicans vs Democrats = a Civil War!

In other words, our country will be divided into TWO separate countries.

For over a hundred years, we've been called the UNITED States of America, but it was in name only. The south never got over losing the war, they're values are totally different than the north

These red states don't think like the blue states and never will. These red states are backwards in their thinking,turning the clock back two hundred years. They're gun toting, anti women, anti gays, anti abortion, anti government, anti civil rights, anti climate change, anti blacks, anti immigrants and anti education.
America is at a stand still with these conservatives blocking our future. They are destroying what Constitution we have left and our country.

When more of the middle class falls into poverty, that's when the people might rise up against the powers that be.

No one cares about the poor, but when it hits home and more middle and upper middle class people are unemployed and losing their homes, because of the conservatives, that's when we'll see people in the streets.

 

wocaonimabi

(187 posts)
58. 100% Correct
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 07:30 AM
Feb 2014

Last edited Sun Feb 23, 2014, 08:45 AM - Edit history (1)

Too many refuse to admit to the divisions in this county that has existed since its inception.

More people need to be honest with themselves and ask the question "What do I have in common with the Red or Blue States and those that reside within." I will admit very little to nothing at all. I have more in common with the people of France then I do with the people of Alabama. Personally I think the only people in the red states that don't want to divvy up the country and have each go their separate ways is a small but vocal minority here on DU. If one gets out in the real world, most people would have no problem with states going their separate ways.

In a way that is why I support the Constitutional Convention that the RW wants, except at the convention the Blue states elect not to be part of what the Red States want to do, at that point the Red states and Blue States can go there separate ways.

Response to marions ghost (Reply #133)

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
70. We will not only die by the millions but we will
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:00 PM
Feb 2014

destroy our buildings and intro structure. How could we function if they bombed our bridges and skyscrapers etc. The cites would be destroyed. We have a much more to lose than the crazies.

And many of us would lose family members taking the other side. I'd lose my two brothers and maybe my sister who is Republican but not very political.
Thank God all my kids are Dems.

Also what would happen between marriages and even their children?

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
52. It all depends on your definition of civil war.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 04:01 AM
Feb 2014

In one sense, the first on never ended.

In another sense, a new one has already begun.

In another, there are many battles that will end in lost lives but nothing that will resemble a full out war.

In another, the real war has no need of killing weaponry. The war will be of survival or of death through starvation or poisoning of human resources.

There are a lot of ways to be at war with many ways to fight, die, or survive.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
61. So long as it doesn't delay the 3rd season of Continuum, that's fine with me.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 10:24 AM
Feb 2014

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

Jetboy

(792 posts)
67. There are some fascists on this site who death would be preferable
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:44 AM
Feb 2014

to having them in charge. Been coming here on and off since 2003 and never felt that way before. There is no wrong they can do and no right their enemies can do in their eyes. Dangerous and troubling.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
69. I would seriously doubt it. Our divisions are mostly about advertising and
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:58 AM
Feb 2014

clever manipulation of demographics-- not a culturally-defining, human rights issue like slavery. We argue over comparatively minor issues in our elections. Most Americans agree, very broadly, on the big economic issues, and yet those opinions are completely excluded from policy debates by both parties.

When you have multimillion dollar elections that repeatedly result in near 50/50 splits of the vote, that is not indicative a meaningfully divided populace. It's indicative a very entrenched political establishment that has become all too good at playing the serfs against each other.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
73. We have two such "culturally-defining, human rights issue like slavery" issues
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:14 PM
Feb 2014

1. Separation of Church and State
2. The Unchecked Power of the Corporate State

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
72. I'm more inclined to see a (largely peaceful) breakup of the union.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:09 PM
Feb 2014

Not into individual states, but into six to nine regional polities. Those polities will still contain "liberal vs conservative" political disagreement, but the intensity would lessen (for a time) as people waited to see just what changes this sort of "reset button" produced. Glory to Cascadia!



A shooting war is likely to happen only when the differneces between the (potentially) warring sides are also geographical (as in the American Civil War). When the opponents are instead completely mixed together (as they are now...even strongly "red" or "blue" states seldom have more than a 60/40 ratio, reflected by presidential elections), it's a lot harder to envision it actually starting up.

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
75. I say bring it on....
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:20 PM
Feb 2014

There is no room for CONservative ideology in this LIBERAL country and the sooner it is eradicated, the sooner we move forward into the future.

 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
81. Lol
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 02:02 PM
Feb 2014

Hey man it's puff puff pass.

But seriously have you seen today's Americans? They can barely leave the couch let alone conduct a war.

Hell, half of 'em would have a coronary on the way to the battlefield.

 

Corruption Inc

(1,568 posts)
86. Class war, not civil war
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:38 PM
Feb 2014

It could easily be prevented by an administration that actually tried criminals for their crimes too.

mwrguy

(3,245 posts)
92. Police and military would crush those gunshow hillbillies no problem
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:39 PM
Feb 2014

Tex Grebner versus real Navy SEALs.

BuzzKillington

(9 posts)
121. You do realize....
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 04:11 AM
Feb 2014

That the VAST majority of US special forces are RW, right?

Oh, and Tex Grebner is an idiot. Wouldn't be taken seriously enough to be engaged.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
93. "we currently control the nukes."
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:39 PM
Feb 2014

Even if that was true how does it help in the event of a civil war? I know,

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
95. That's why we need a strong liberal leftist government. Because RW lunatics
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:48 PM
Feb 2014

need to be prevented from manifesting teh stupid, and saying it with violence against innocent people.

 

Frytruk33

(19 posts)
99. You had better hope not
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:55 PM
Feb 2014

You people realize that 90% of firearms owners are conservative right? Most soldiers, leo's, high ranking military( ie the ones who control the nukes) are conservative as well. If it came to war the conservatives would annihilate us. It's funny, I never hear conservatives crying out for war to eradicate fellow Americans with differing beliefs. Then again, had any of you actually served in the military, you wouldn't be crying out for war(unless you were insane) You people make me ashamed to call myself a democrat.

 

Frytruk33

(19 posts)
109. You're right is does
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 07:10 PM
Feb 2014

My last name is Reyes. Right there under the red stamped "Democrat". It doesn't mean I won't call out idiots that are casually crying out for a war that would kill millions of Americans.
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
No need to apologize, but wouldn't you agree most military(especially high ranking brass) are conservative to the bone?

XRubicon

(2,213 posts)
136. Im going to assume you wont be around long enough to warrant
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 04:24 PM
Feb 2014

An answer.

I will further assume you are a text book example of the Dunning Kruger effect.

BuzzKillington

(9 posts)
139. Why?
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:34 PM
Feb 2014

For calling you out on your hard on for war and infighting? I've already lost friends in these dumb wars going on. I have no desire to lose more to stupid conflict. You do realize how hypocritical this is, right?

BuzzKillington

(9 posts)
141. Actually.....
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:54 PM
Feb 2014

You're right. My fault. I was associating the football avatars and confused you with the OP and his mental masturbation over wars. I'm sure he's just another National Guardsman who dresses up during his one weekend a month and then when finished spends the rest of the day going everywhere he can in public while wearing his uniform, unlike Active Duty who work everyday and cannot stand being in public while in uniform.

My fault for associating the Patriots avatar with his Packers. I forgot who I was talking to since last night. But my original reply still stands. Combat Arms roles are heavily filled with right leaning troops. Support is mostly left. I just got out and my spouse is still in. That's my experience in the way our military stands politically right now. Regardless of their personal opinions, all O7's-O10's (and some O6's) are political puppets doing as their masters direct.

 

Pharaoh

(8,209 posts)
106. yep and the Morans will lose
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 06:58 PM
Feb 2014

Last edited Sun Feb 23, 2014, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)

why? because. they''re morans,!!!!! braaaaaaa!

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
107. This seems silly to me considering
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 07:02 PM
Feb 2014

what happened to OWS. This was clearly showing a concerted effort to bring the movement down with permission of the WH, IMHO. There is also the consideration that the 1% are in kahoots with the CIA and NSA. Taking possible troubling elements out from either side will be very quietly achieved, and the rest will cringe.

gordianot

(15,272 posts)
116. Exactly, the Government would not even have to exert much force and it would be very quiet.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 10:48 PM
Feb 2014

Those contemplating force or secession against the United States ignore that the United States has planned for decades a response to a national holocaust.

Springslips

(533 posts)
117. If there will be a civil war it won't be ideological...
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:21 PM
Feb 2014

Or even economic. It will be caused by climate change and the fight will be over resources. California versus Nevada.

gordianot

(15,272 posts)
118. I tend to think of climate change and resources as economic. You do make a good point.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:06 AM
Feb 2014

There is still tension between Kansas and Missouri after all these years most do not know why.

Your post brings up another possibility; where all of those displaced people going to go? The life of a refugee is hard.

Springslips

(533 posts)
119. Yes.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:16 AM
Feb 2014

I should have said 'class' not 'economic.' All the people moving to the coasts and deserts will be coming back to the Midwest and interior and it will be a mess. The challenges we face are daunting. We tend to be arrogant and think our civilization as advance and unstoppable, that progress continues unabated, but it's a myth. Rome was more powerful and rich for its time than we are. Eventually, progress stops, like after Rome fell; a second dark age is a very real possibility.

I usually don't do doom and gloom; there is a chance science and technology will be our savior. But I am a realist too. If civil strife comes it will come over resources: water, land, access, food.

No one really fight over ideology anyways.

gordianot

(15,272 posts)
120. The strife will be personal one against the other, this just invites government to step in.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:34 AM
Feb 2014

The Federal Government has had decades to prepare for the possible outcome of the cold war. Right now all of those preparations are rusting. Any new dark age will be borne of sheer desperation and greed.

 

Adenoid_Hynkel

(14,093 posts)
123. Pfft! Let the rednecks try it - & the Union Army will go all William Tecumseh Sherman on their asses
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 04:21 AM
Feb 2014


leaving the morons crying like babies for another 150 years.
 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
132. Divisive? How is my OP divisive? Maybe to teabaggers, but they shouldn't be here.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 12:17 PM
Feb 2014

I merely had a thought pop into my hair-brain and wanted to share with my fellow hair-brains.

Is that so WRONG?

 

adavid

(140 posts)
137. Glad you brought this up..
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 04:30 PM
Feb 2014

I've been thinking.
When the American Revolution started, the Loyalists (the conservatives of their day) ran away to Europe and Canada.
I don't think the cons of today will run anywhere.
That is why Libs, Dems, and Progressives need to arm themselves.
Why?, because the right wing fascists are armed, and I don't trust them.

 

adavid

(140 posts)
137. Glad you brought this up..
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 04:30 PM
Feb 2014

I've been thinking.
When the American Revolution started, the Loyalists (the conservatives of their day) ran away to Europe and Canada.
I don't think the cons of today will run anywhere.
That is why Libs, Dems, and Progressives need to arm themselves.
Why?, because the right wing fascists are armed, and I don't trust them.

Response to AAO (Original post)

dilby

(2,273 posts)
143. Not going to happen.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 09:46 PM
Feb 2014

Sorry but people in the US are not going to up and take arms against one another just because of political differences. I have both conservative and liberal friends and neither side would ever think of killing the other. To even suggest this is just flame bait.

AlinPA

(15,071 posts)
148. Agree there will not be a civil war, but if a Democrat is elected as President in 2016, the
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 04:11 PM
Feb 2014

teabaggers and other right-wing crazies will explode. If it is a woman, we may see assassination attempts by the right wing, but it would be a matter for law enforcement, not a war effort by either side.

 

MO_Moderate

(377 posts)
146. .
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 03:44 PM
Feb 2014

First, relax, your Republican neighbors are not sitting around planning your demise.
Second, stop falling for the 'evil corporate right-wing 1% is going to enslave you,' hysteria.
Third, there will not be a civil war, uprising or revolution. Laws you like or dislike will continue to be passed, and aside from some technological advances and barring financial collapse, your life probably won't change all that much over the next ten or twenty years.

 

MO_Moderate

(377 posts)
164. Conspiracy theories do not prove you to be right
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:12 AM
Feb 2014

Believe what you actually see, not what you read on hyper partisan websites

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
165. I didn't get anything from a "hyper partisan website".
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 11:43 AM
Feb 2014

Now my brain may be "hyper partisan", but partisanship doesn't come into play in this at all. I'm looking at the situation a few years down the road if things continue on the path they are on. I don't see anything to convince me the ship will turn around. As I said, I'd love to be wrong, but since we are talking about the future, your slap-down of me doesn't carry much weight.

Peace!

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
147. secret fantasies based on hack-authored, badly-written sci-fi novellas
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 04:04 PM
Feb 2014

Far too many people harbor secret fantasies based on hack-authored, badly-written sci-fi novellas, and project those fantasies as prophecy.

No harm, no foul-- I did the same thing in sixth grade when I hoped for a nuclear war that would mutate everyone into elves, dwarves and dragons.


Instead of The Stand or Alas, Babylon or The Hunger Games, try these for a better sense of how and why conflicts are born...
Rise and Fall of the Great Powers, by Kennedy
Functions of Conflict, by Koser
and Culture and Conflict Resolution

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
149. more like, second "great depression" and progressive revival....
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 04:18 PM
Feb 2014

Our current period is very similar to the roaring twenties, except we are making very slow progress on social issues.

When the next "great depression" hits, I think we'll see a revival of progressivism. I"m not wishing for a depression, but we barely escaped one in 2008-2009 and the basic underlying problems with the banking system have not been adequately resolved yet (i.e., too big to fail and lack of Glass-Steagall). I hope I'm wrong about the depression part.

Response to AAO (Original post)

Response to AAO (Original post)

ileus

(15,396 posts)
161. Another good reason we should remain progressive on the 2A.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:12 PM
Feb 2014

As an armed liberal I know I'm in the minority here, but I take my personal safety and that of my family serious. I also take my love for my country serious. Never give up...

 

AAO

(3,300 posts)
163. Yes, please stay together
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:21 PM
Feb 2014

Never in my life did I think I would be saying this, but I asked my wife tonight if she thought we should have some kind of firepower in the house. We agreed that if we took proper lessons to use and care for these weapons, we should really start thinking about it.

I'll be monitoring the situation.....

Kick in to the DU tip jar?

This week we're running a special pop-up mini fund drive. From Monday through Friday we're going ad-free for all registered members, and we're asking you to kick in to the DU tip jar to support the site and keep us financially healthy.

As a bonus, making a contribution will allow you to leave kudos for another DU member, and at the end of the week we'll recognize the DUers who you think make this community great.

Tell me more...

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The next civil war is com...