Psst... white folks, come here

[1awake]

Thought I would take a stab at this. Yes, this is another op on white privilege... deal.

I've seen so many posts on both sides of the isle on this subject, and after reading so much what people are writing, I've come to the conclusion that basically, a good percentage of both sides don't get it.

What White Privilege is not:

- WP is not racism
- WP is not discrimination
- Pointing out discrimination shows.. discrimination, not WP
- Having WP does not make you bad, nor racist, nor discriminatory, evil, etc.
- Having WP does not require an apology nor ask for one... that would be absurd.
- WP does not state that having WP gives you special treatment or anything out of the norm
- WP has nothing to do with having any easy life, or being poor, or rich, are pretty.
- WP is not meant to be a derogatory term.

What White Privilege is:
- WP is the counter balance to discrimination.
- WP...if minorities are discriminated against, then there inherently is a group not discriminated against.
- Being in the group not discriminated against means you are not facing discrimination based on the criteria.
- Due to the attributes being discriminated against, your lack of having them means you do not face that discrimination.
- If people of color are the target of discrimination, than whites will never face that specific problem.


It's fairly easy to understand logically. Because of discrimination of specific groups... based on skin tone, there are other groups who do not face the same problems. Your white privilege allows you, because of your skin tone, to never have to 1st hand experience the discrimination that a minority would. Your privilege is to never have to experience it. The term privilege has nothing to do with anything above and beyond what you as a white person would normally expect in your daily life... which is NOT what a person of color would need to expect on a daily basis.

The entire point of using the term WP, and why it was developed is not to bash anyone, but to make people aware there are people in society who do not get to enjoy life as well as you because of discrimination. It's a fact.

People who say WP is evil and blame racism on it don't understand the concept. WP is the other side of the coin to discrimination. WP is a side effect which is caused by racism, not the other way around.

People who say there's no such thing as WP... are usually white people who have never experienced it (obviously as the term is defined) and have had a fairly shaky life. "How can I have WP.. look what I've been through!" Unfortunately having a bad life has nothing to do with this specific issue. They are not even related. People cling to the term "Privilege" and think it means good life or something special and then look around and see where they haven't had any of that. I get it. The term privilege only means in this context, the privilege to not be discriminated against due to color of skin, and to experience life without that interference. that's it, and that's all.

The problem is racism, and that my friends is the entire point of identifying WP in the first place.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Terms like "white privilege" are often misunderstood and might now have become useless.

A review of practically any DU thread on the matter of white or male privilege, one finds unbelievably biased opinions posted, oddly enough, with pride.

A different thread about the rise of teabagger RW groups a member posted this reply:

Fathers' rights groups aren't anger groups, they're parents' rights groups

That's why I wouldn't lump them in there with the other reactionary groups.

Which then got this response.

I wouldn't say that. I'd say that black fathers' groups are parent relationship improvement groups

but white fathers' rights groups, I'd say are very different and based on anti-feminism and anti-feminist anger alone.

It speaks for itself, and I think it's one of the most horrid examples of racism and bigotry being posted by a long term DU member that I've ever seen.

It's proof that there's a hell of a lot of bigotry that flies under the flag of "Progressive" opinion.

We need to be careful about the broadbrushing and we need to respect people as individuals.

~~~

[1awake]

2. I would completely agree

as well as agreeing that the term WP is probably useless at this point. But the idea behind it is valid and logical once you get past the terrible wording. This was a simple attempt (the op) to tell people on both sides (not all) they aren't using the term properly and are assigning their own meaning to it. If it helps one person understand it then it was worth typing lol.

[ismnotwasm]

9. Remember hearing about this?

On April 5, 1968, Steven Armstrong was the first child to arrive in Elliott’s classroom,[1] asking why "that King" (referring to Martin Luther King, Jr.) was murdered the day before. After the rest of the class arrived, Elliott asked what they knew about black people. She then asked these children if they would like to try an exercise to feel what it was like to be treated the way a person of color is treated in America, mentioning that it would be interesting if there was segregation based on eye color instead of skin color. The children agreed to try the exercise.[1]
On that day, she designated the blue-eyed children as the superior group. Elliott provided brown fabric collars and asked the blue-eyed students to wrap them around the necks of their brown-eyed peers as a method of easily identifying the minority group. She gave the blue-eyed children extra privileges, such as second helpings at lunch, access to the new jungle gym, and five extra minutes at recess. The blue-eyed children sat in the front of the classroom, and the brown-eyed children were sent to sit in the back rows. The blue-eyed children were encouraged to play only with other blue-eyed children and to ignore those with brown eyes. Elliott would not allow brown-eyed and blue-eyed children to drink from the same water fountain, and often chastised the brown-eyed students when they did not follow the exercise's rules or made mistakes. She often exemplified the differences between the two groups by singling out students, and would use negative aspects of brown-eyed children to emphasize.

At first, there was resistance among the students in the minority group to the idea that blue-eyed children were better than brown-eyed children. To counter this, Elliott lied to the children by stating that the melanin responsible for making children blue-eyed also was linked to their higher intelligence and learning ability. Shortly thereafter, this initial resistance fell away. Those who were deemed "superior" became arrogant, bossy and otherwise unpleasant to their "inferior" classmates. Their grades also improved, doing mathematical and reading tasks that seemed outside their ability before. The "inferior" classmates also transformed – into timid and subservient children, including those who had previously been dominant in the class. These children’s academic performance suffered, even with tasks that had been simple before.

The next Monday,[1] Elliott reversed the exercise, making the brown-eyed children superior. While the brown-eyed children did taunt the blue-eyed in ways similar to what had occurred the previous day, Elliott reports it was much less intense. At 2:30 on that Wednesday, Elliott told the blue-eyed children to take off their collars. To reflect on the experience, she asked the children to write down what they had learned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott

That controversial experiment was deliberately created entitlement

The term is only useless because it is rejected. It is rejected because it is uncomfortable.

[hootinholler]

20. It's frustrating as an older fat white man

It seems there is little I can do personally to move the needle very much.

Where I can see that I can move it I do.

[ismnotwasm]

44. Then you're aware

Which is miles ahead of a lot of people

[1awake]

35. Very much so, but this has nothing to do with WP. nt

[ismnotwasm]

43. Oh I meant it as demonstration on the concept of privilege

It is a little out there though

[1awake]

45. I think it was great, ignore my confusion.. multitasking for me is hard lol. nt

[NYC_SKP]

47. For better or worse...

I conducted that very exercise with a class of students and after a debriefing showed them the video of the original experiment.

I'd like to think that it made a lasting and meaninungful impression.

The various privileges are very real and so deeply fixed in our institutions and our collective consciousness as to bring one to tears.

Regularly.

[sheshe2]

58. +1!

[1awake]

3. Shameful self kick :(

[get the red out]

4. Makes sense to me

And I'm white.

[1awake]

5. me to, but I think some are still confused. nt

[AgingAmerican]

6. Sounds about right

nt

[CANDO]

7. Thank you!

I've been in pissing contests in some of the WP threads. Very frustrating indeed. In many cases, it feels like deliberate race baiting. You've summed it up nicely. I still stand by my point that WP threads are pointless. They solve nothing. They just stir up shit. They preach to the choir. By and large, the 35% of white male voters who voted for Barrack Obama are liberals and very non-discriminatory and are already very aware of the concept of WP to begin with. Which brings me around to respond to these WP threads with a "what is the point"?

[LiberalAndProud]

10. Maybe the point is that people post things like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024575218#post416

Get a fucking job and obey the law and pay taxes and shut the hell up about anyone else being "privileged".

and then say stuff like "you're preaching to the choir."

[gollygee]

12. +1

[noiretextatique]

22. that's racist as hell

But I am sure that poster does not think so.

[Squinch]

26. Here's another one, on the subject of white privilege, from that self-same "choir" member:

"And to reiterate, if you aren't employed and can't find a job in your field, you're lazy and don't want a job."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024575218#post202

...because, hey, those of us who talk about white privilege are just making excuses for the fact that we are all lazy unemployed people who just don't want a job...

[gollygee]

32. Well the stereotype

of being lazy and not wanting to get a job isn't a stereotype about people who talk about white privilege.

So stop telling me and millions more of white America that our experiences and existences were handed to us on a silver platter. And to reiterate, if you aren't employed and can't find a job in your field, you're lazy and don't want a job.

It sounds to me like that quote is specifically about people who are not part of "white America."

[Squinch]

33. I think that was the assumption...

...but noooooo! We mustn't talk about white privilege. It clearly infuriates him.

[bravenak]

34. +1

I noticed that.

[CANDO]

39. So why don't you post my entire post so that sentence can be seen in it's larger context?

I was explaining how "privileged" my life was as a truck driver and home owner and how those 2 factors in my life are not at all privileges. That sentence sums up my point that getting a fucking job and making your own way in life instead of whining constantly will work wonders. You don't like it, Liberalandproud? Tough shit!

[LiberalAndProud]

46. I linked to your entire post.

I highlighted the sentence that was especially egregious by quoting it. If you are blind to the bigotry that is yours, so be it. But no, I don't have to like it.

[gollygee]

14. If they were preaching to the choir

everyone would be singing in tune. If this is the choir, we need more practice.

[Number23]

18. You've proven yet again that you don't really understand the conversation

This OP (which you appear to have vehemently agreed with) is the complete opposite of every post you've made on the subject.

The OP is explaining (his interpretation of) what white privilege is. You seem to go out of your way to deny it exists and are inflamed by any conversation about it.

[noiretextatique]

23. unbelivable

After all the racist SHIT flung at our first president and his family it IS pointless to discuss this issue with anyone who is completely clueless. That's privilege.

[ismnotwasm]

8. I like this quote

"If white American entitlement meant anything, it meant that no matter how patronizing, unashamed, deliberate, unintentional, poor, rich, rural, urban, ignorant, and destructive white Americans could be, black Americans were still encouraged to work for them, write to them, listen to them, talk with them, run from them, emulate them, teach them, dodge them, and ultimately thank them for not being as fucked up as they could be."
-Kiese Laymon,
Our Kind of Ridiculous: Yous, Me and Blackness as Probable Cause

[sabrina 1]

11. Labeling entire groups of people is bigotry in itself. Pointing out bigotry is not hard to do

without risking being misunderstood which only undermines the supposed goal. There is plenty of blatant bigotry to be found in this country and the ONLY correct label that applies, is to call it out when it rears its ugly head, not to choose some vague, nebulous label that ends up totally losing the point as everyone argues over the LABEL rather than the ussue.

But using whatever logic is ever behind labels, the most glaring privilege is American Privilege. We run around the world invading other people's countries, killing their citizens, mostly NOT white and each and every one of us who lives here and pays taxes benefits from that privilege. No exceptions. Unless we refuse to pay taxes, then go straight to jail, or move.

See how these labels work? From outside this country many people DO view every single American as so privileged they cannot even see the harm they do to other people.

I despise labels, except when aimed directly at the guilty. I do not support any of our invasions or our support for dictators etc, but if I were to try to defend myself to some of the victims of these wars, well, we already know what they would say to me. 'You're American, you just don't understand what it is like to be the victim of your wars and torture etc.' Even those who think they are the 'good guys'? What have we done to stop the destruction of other people's lives and countries and futures? What have any of us done to try to get the justice many of the victims have asked for, even a day in court?

We are ALL privileged here in this country to the poor people who suffer from our privileged status.

[NYC_SKP]

59. No shit, sabrina 1. Thank you for bringing a global perspective to this discussion.

It's not, of course, to diminish the impacts on those victims in our society of inequity, but at the end of the day the gross daily inhumanity out there needs to be recognized and the entirety of bigotry and hatred and oppression needs to be reported, amplified, challenged, from all corners.

[sabrina 1]

63. Thanks, I wanted to say how I feel being here in America and viewed as callously privileged by the

many victims of our criminal leaders, Bush/Cheney. I opposed everything they did and tried as much as was possible to stop them. I don't like being associated in any way with those criminals, but that's what happens when there is a big label, in this case sadly, AMERICA, slapped on an entire group of people.

It is not effective to put a 'one size fits all' label on entire groups or countries. In a way it lets the guilty off the hook and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the guilty are behind pushing this meme to silence those who in no way want to be identified with them.

I'm for laws that protect everyone, and for going after those who are guilty, and not for broad brushing serious issues like this, allowing the guilty to spread the blame around. That sucks, it HELPS the guilty to get lost in the crowd, iow, it covers for them. Single them out and hold them accountable.

Wrt to American Privilege the only way we can lift that lable of guilt from all of us, is to go after those who are guilty and those who supported them. But we have chosen to let them hide behind collective guilt.

I agree completely with you regarding recognizing bigotry and dealing with it straight on, no holds barred. And we need to take a look at our National Bigotry, the wars we fight, the ethnic slurs that become acceptable once we declare a country, like Iraq, 'the enemy'. I won't go over the horrible ethnic slurs from Right Wingers against Iraqis as soon as Bush attacked that country.

It came from our Generals, 'treat the Iraqis like dogs' and of course it finally released all those bigots on the Right who felt like victims due to some progress made re hate speech etc, to let it all out, all their pent up bigotry and we got treated to some of the worst epithets against a people who had done nothing to us.

Thanks for you comment NYC_SKP!

[CreekDog]

67. thank you for defending white people

where on earth would we be without your help.

well, probably doing pretty well, after all, we tend to be the least discriminated against, racial group in the world.

[NYC_SKP]

70. Hi, stalker!

Dude, I texted you yesterday while picking up some sweet seating pieces at a SOMA reseller.

Awesome high end leather goods, seriously worth over $14,000 retail, got them for $379 per set, two sets. Unbelievable.

Maybe your phone was off?

[kwassa]

61. White privilege isn't vague, it is quite specific, it isn't a label, it is a descriptor.

It is only misunderstood by those who refuse to examine it.

[sabrina 1]

65. White Privilege is American Privilege and if you don't recognize the bigotry of this country as a

nation embedded in our Wars and Invasions against mostly NON WHITE peoples, you are in total denial of the extent of the bigotry that exists here. Maybe you are too invested in just your narrow view of what it means to be targeted by a bigoted nation. There is no one in this country who is exempt, WE are the most 'privileged nation' in the world.

We cheer for a military that uses the most racially charged language against the people of the sovereign nations we attack and raid and call those who spread this bigotry around 'heroes'. So long as we are afraid to speak out against this global bigotry which we pay for, don't bother me with trying to excuse some Americans from the guilt they should feel for participating in it in any way.

Sick to death of the denial of our national hatred for other people most of whom have never done a thing to deserve it.

Heard the phrase 'Camel Jockeys'? 'Sand N*&&*%', among other too disgusting to repeat, all American approved in order to dehumanize those we 'have to kill for 'our safety'. Yes, WE Americans are the MOST Superior people in the history of the world and OUR PRIVILEGE excuses all the killing we do the drone killings, the bombings, the torture.

And thanks to those even here who defend these bigoted wars, drone killings, destruction of their nations, we sure aren't killing white people, are we, all of us are blamed, wrongly imo since I have always opposed all of it, for the American Privilege the world sees and doesn't take the trouble sometimes to see that not all of us are supportive of our bigoted foreign policy.

Death, torture, imprisonment, just because you are Muslim or Arab, and because WE CAN because we are so Privileged. No one is innocent if they have ever in any way tried to excuse it.

Don't tell me what opinions I should hold, I call this inward focus on US/MEee rather than looking at ALL OF US, shameful especially now when as a nation we are engaged in massive bigotry against the peoples of other cultures and all for profit.

[gollygee]

72. This is more white privilege

One can recognize one way white privilege manifests in our society, and at the very same time recongnize another way white privilege manifests in our society.

[sabrina 1]

79. I know people don't like it when they have to look in the mirror. But I have noticed some incredible

hypocrisy here among those who claim to so concerned about the issue of bigotry, while at the same time EXCUSING, EXPLAINING, or trying to, the ultimate result of bigotry after which there is no return for the victims, all because of politics.

I'll believe their sincerity when I see total opposition to our national bigotry and a demand for the return of the rule of law where ALL humans beings are treated equally, under the law. Til then all this is is a further demonstration of our National Privilege, where we live in our own small cocoon ignoring everything outside of it, proving again how important we think we are blindly ignoring the horrible deaths and the removal of all rights human beings are entitled to, all done in our name, while some just don't want to look out the window of our symbolic ivory towers and/or acknowledge the horrors the actions taken in our name.

Imagine if all of this was really sincere how much good it could do if a united front against what is being done in our name to other people, were to develop from it. We could actually stop most of it.

[quinnox]

13. I think the main problem is most normal peoples eyes glaze over when they hear terms like

"white privilege". Too ivory tower sounding, and a huge turn-off.

Its definitely a conversation ender.

[Android3.14]

16. That is the problem

It ends conversations.

[quinnox]

17. It does for me, anyway

I usually hide/trash most threads talking about the subject as a matter of routine.

[CreekDog]

69. we know

[CreekDog]

68. generally with white males who disagree that white privilege exists

[Scuba]

15. Excellent, well thought out post, 1awake. Thank you.

[Lizzie Poppet]

19. Good post, OP.

Lots to digest...but one initial comment:

Despite being very white indeed (natural strawberry blonde who dyes her hair gothy black...I'm about as pasty white as it gets without albinism), I think I do indeed have some insight into discrimination. Not having a penis will do that.

It's not the same discrimination (the discrimination I face is, for example, a lot less likely to get me shot by the cops)...but it's damn sure discrimination. I have no doubt that experiencing it has made me more receptive to the acknowledgement of other forms of discrimination, like racism or religious bigotry.

[AverageJoe90]

21. While I disagree with the concept of literal WP, this was actually well-reasoned, TBH.

And certainly not full of Unfortunate Implications as so many other pro-WP OPs have been. A step in the right direction, perhaps.

[1awake]

73. What I said above is the definition of literal WP, and not what certain others may have voiced.

People use terms for their own ends, even if they don't realize they are doing it. Have a great day!

[paulkienitz]

24. my teen years gave me a clear illustration of white privilege

In high school, I was an underachiever -- one of those who was smart but couldn't be bothered to work hard and get high grades. You should have seen how hard the teachers and everyone struggled to get me to realize my potential. I sure didn't see anyone extending that kind of effort for the black kids from the east side of town. This community was about as liberal and multicultural as you could hope for at the time, as far as its ideals and good intentions went, but it was still pretty obvious that they were singling me out because I was the one who was supposed to rise high and be a success.

[cyberswede]

25. K & R

[westerebus]

27. My white privilege agrees.

As a matter of fact, my straight white male privilege agrees too.

[Bjorn Against]

28. Well said!

[Squinch]

29. K&R

[Pretzel_Warrior]

30. Snore. This topic got boring over a week ago

But hey. Keep pounding that rock.

[leftyohiolib]

31. agreed i am so sick of being told how privileged i am

[1awake]

37. And saying that shows you didnt even read it. nt

[leftyohiolib]

38. i read it and like all posts of white privilege it's full assumption, probablies and generalizations

all based on stereotypes.

[1awake]

40. No it is not lol. Not one actually. nice try. nt

[CANDO]

42. And...

It's pointless! They want acknowledgement! And then what???? Sound of crickets chirping....... But dare to expound upon anything further, you get drawn into the race baiting trap they so cleverly resort to. Go up thread for example.

[cyberswede]

49. Who is "they?" Black people?

[CANDO]

50. The ones I put on ignore. I've no idea or care what their ethnic origin was/is.

One of them called me a racist, or more precisely, something I said is "racist as hell". These WP threads, as well as the gender war threads are nothing but flame bait threads when you dare disagree with the OP.

[cyberswede]

52. I have a hard time accepting the idea that people who recognize WP are "race baiting"...

Do you have any links to support that?

And if a person of color thinks you said something "racist as hell," and you didn't intend to, maybe it's a communication problem?

Perhaps it's a question of listening to each other?

[CANDO]

53. First of all, I've acknowleged WP.

But in attempting to get further explanations and points as to what these OP's are after, there doesn't seem to be much of a response except "you still don't get it", or "you're so privileged, you don't get it". So, there doesn't seem to be much of an attempt to have or allow a multi-sided discussion by the original posters or their sympathetic backers. And in explaining my "privileged" white existence as a glamorous and uber wealthy truck driver who goes to work and pays taxes and obeys the law and that anyone looking to me to give up THAT sort of privileged life, I said should get a fucking job and do the same instead of whining and complaining, I was called a racist. Sorry for the run on sentence.

[cyberswede]

56. I'm sorry you were called a racist...

but WP isn't about your "privileged" white existence at all. It's about you being able to live your life (as unglamorous as it may be) without also having to experience racial discrimination on top of everything else.

That you say anyone is looking to you to "give up THAT sort of privileged life" suggests to me that there's a misunderstanding of what WP is, as well as its possible effects.

Nobody is asking you to give up anything...in fact WP isn't something you or I could give up, even if we wanted to. It's simply a side-effect of racial discrimination toward nonwhites. If one group is discriminated against, then those not in that group are not, and THAT is the privilege.

As for your question about what the OPs are after, it seems that the goal is for people to be aware that the privilege of not being discriminated against exists, and to take a stand against racial discrimination (with words or deeds) when we see it.

[cyberswede]

48. No, it says you have the privilege of not being discriminated against for your skin color.

That's all it is, really.

I don't understand why people are so defensive about this. It's not a fault, or a flaw, or anything to be ashamed of. It just "is."

[CANDO]

54. No, to suggest something is a "privilege".....

is to suggest it is out of the ordinary and not a usual condition. Because people are discriminated against, doesn't then mean that those who aren't discriminated against are privileged. It just means that some things in life are fairly fucked up and need to be rectified. WP, as a descriptor of not being discriminated against, is a very poorly named concept. It basically says that it's not fair that some are discriminated against when all should be. No, all should not be discriminated against, period. Privilege is winning the birth lottery. Privilege is mom and dad buying you a BMW for your 16th birthday. I'm sorry there's discrimination and bigotry in this world. Me, privileged? Oh, please!

[cyberswede]

57. So, it's more a problem with the term than the concept.

For what it's worth, the term "privilege" in WP isn't used the same way as the type of privilege (financial) that you describe, but I can see why it might seem to be.

There's an interesting thread on that very topic from earlier today:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024604306

The OP makes some good points, and I think you might appreciate their perspective/ideas. It's a short thread, so I hope you find it worthwhile.

(And I agree that everyone should NOT be discriminated against, period).

[CANDO]

60. I suppose myself and others who have tried....

have poorly argued our position. But yes, there you have it. Naming the lack of being discriminated against a "privilege", is a very misguided and incorrect way of garnering support for ending racism and bigotry. It sort of excuses racism and bigotry as the norm in this world, when it is not the norm. The shameful abnormal is that people are discriminated against. THAT, is what they should be railing against. Not so called white privilege.

[westerebus]

66. It's a conflicting expression.

In one sense, it is intended to provoke a reaction.

So context is important.

Simply, I woke this morning as a white man.

Tonight, I will go to bed the same.

Tomorrow, I will wake up the same.

I have white privilege. I'm pretty much discrimination proof.

I agree with you there are better ways to start a discussion.

I agree with the poster also.

The chances of being discriminated against are slim for a WM.

Same goes for white women.

Men and women have shared issues and those unique to their specific gender.

In addition there is the conflict of economics for the majority.

That reinforces class structure.

As long as those at the top on the economic pyramid can keep the rest of us arguing, they win.





l

[leftyohiolib]

71. and u Know i havent been discriminated against how? how do you know that i benefitted

from my whiteness. you dont youre just assuming.

[cyberswede]

74. Oh my god. It isn't about you, individually.

It's about society. White people, in society, have the privilege of not being discriminated against for being nonwhite.

However, I'm fairly certain you've benefited from your whiteness, simply by never having had to be nonwhite.

Here's a few examples:

Daily effects of white privilege

I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

more

[leftyohiolib]

75. oh i see it's about a group that im included in but not about me. i dont see how that's possible

but you dont need to explain it to me.
part of the problem i have with wp accusations is that the extending of wp to whomever it is extended to would be on the person who extended this privilege not on the person receving it. i dont benefit from privilege because i have it but because it was extended to me. but you never know if you benefitted from it, others are just assuming you must have because you are white.

[cyberswede]

77. Saying that white people bnenefit from WP is not an "accusation"

It seems like you think it's somehow a flaw to benefit from WP. It's not. It's merely NOT being discriminated against for your race.

It's not extended to you by anybody. It's a side-effect. If one group is discriminated against, the other group is not, so THAT is the "privilege." You are not discriminated against for being nonwhite, therefore you "benefit" from not being discriminated against.

If the words "privilege" and "benefit" are the problem, think of it this way:

Nonwhite people have the disadvantage of being discriminated against, therefore people without that disadvantage have an advantage.

It really isn't an insult; white people don't need to feel defensive about WP.

[leftyohiolib]

80. but yet i do feel insulted, i dont believe that your personally are trying to insult me but

the whole idea is insulting.
Nonwhite people have the disadvantage of being discriminated against, therefore people without that disadvantage have an advantage. this right here is an enormous assumption.
im reminded of a woman a couple years back, this story made it onto the national stage, of an african-american woman who worked for a bank (iirc) a white couple came to her for a loan she turned hem down because hey were white, she eventually felt so badly about it that she contacted them and helped them get what they needed and were still friends at the time. where was their white privilege? if she never contacted them they would never have know they had been discriminated against them. i can guaranty u that this isnt the only case but we cant prove it unless people come forth and admit it.
we dont know who is discriminated against so someone telling me otherwise is making a huge assumption.

[cyberswede]

85. I'm sorry you feel insulted...

and I'm definitely not trying to insult you.

I'm sure white people are sometimes discriminated against for their race, but again, we're talking about society as a whole, and not individual cases. In society, people of color experience discrimination far more frequently, and at an institutional level, whereas white people being discriminated against would be a more specific, singular incident. Society as a whole does not discriminate against white people.

Every individual person, taken as an individual person, may experience discrimination differently. However, when we look at society as a whole, discrimination is experienced much more heavily, and at a broader and deeper level, for nonwhites.

I appreciate you sharing your views. Have a good day.

[leftyohiolib]

87. and i appreciate your patience with me. take care

[1awake]

36. Then its a good think im not here to entertain you lol.

Find a clown or a magician. But hey, thanks for the kick, since it was so boring you probably posted without reading it. To each their own sir/ma'am.

[Capt. Obvious]

41. You should start another thread about it

[WillyT]

51. Sleep Gently... It's Better Than Full-On Denial... That Takes Effort...

Sweet dreams.

[Quayblue]

55. thank you

Last edited Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Really.

I've been writing a lot lately because there's so much facets to this and I try to be understanding. And currently I'm at the point where I can't be angry but I cannot deal with not being acknowledged as a black person, as a person who has experienced shit being dark as midnight under a celebratory moon. The fight has got to be goddamn fought.

I will not let my anger get in the way. I don't even know if it's anger anymore. It's certainly not happiness. It's not knowing my children have a future, it's hoping upon a fucking star my son don't get killed and my daughter doesn't have to obtain a degree to be somehow accepted as normal.

I won't accept it, and frankly, it is what it is.

[1awake]

62. All things being equal you should simply be acknowledged as a person

and skin tone playing no factor. Unfortunately, society does not reflect all things being equal. What I just stated does not mean failing to recognize culture or anything else. Some white people are scared by the term WP. They think it conotates some form of guilt or persecution. Some feel it is equivalent to being blamed for racism, or somehow making them feel they are responsible based on the color of their skin. It is gross misconceptions of terminology along with statements by people who they themselves have no idea what their talking about that fuel the fire. When in reality, most people when hearing what the term really means would simply be like "Oh, alright I get it, of course".

There are others who feel it is their duty to take up the cross, and along with they themselves, must convince other white people that it is their responsibility to accept the sins and fight the cause. They mean well but ultimately cause more harm than good. The issue becomes convoluted and broken up into small battles of inconsequential things that no longer address anything they intended.

The target is not WP, it has been and will remain racism. WP is used to express the need for everyone to realize that racism is still prevalent in our society and while white people do not see it often or directly, it still exists for people for people of color everyday. Faining blindness does not mean the fire is out.

Racism based on skin tone... it's rather amazing when you really stop and think about it. Skin tone... the pigment in your skin somehow justifies multiple years of abuse. It somehow justifies poor treatment or failing to get a job, given the benefit of the doubt and proper procedures with police, and the difference whether someone pulls the trigger out of fear. Fear of what?

Thank you for your post. As Helen Keller once said... "I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do."



"For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others."

-Nelson Mandela

[Lunacee_2013]

64. K&R.

You've managed to put into words the same thing I've been thinking for the last few weeks.

[Gormy Cuss]

76. That was a great Black History month on DU, wasn't it?

So many DUers denying white advantage in every thread...that really shows that we're in a postracial society.

It's March now. Time to move on, nothing to see here.

[barnabas63]

78. totally agree

what's the problem? (rhetorical question)

[Vashta Nerada]

81. Hasn't this website been pointing out white privilege for weeks now?

How about we discuss ways to stop white privilege and racism? Isn't that a better use of time?

I think it is.

[1awake]

82. You cant stop WP. My op was to explain what it is and isnt.

I think a great use of time is everyone getting what it is so we can stop having posts from both sides addressing it and still not know what their talking about.

[Vashta Nerada]

83. Anything can be stopped.

[1awake]

84. Technically you are right. but only through focusing on racism since WP only exists because of it.

That very WP is the actual goal for all people of color.. to achieve it. So, getting rid of white people having the Privilege is not the goal... its bringing everyone up to the same level of normal.

[Vashta Nerada]

86. How could something like that be achieved?

[Orsino]

88. Good summary.

Most to-the-point post I have seen on the subject, in fact.

[gopiscrap]

90. Welcome to DU

[Baitball Blogger]

91. Apparently you didn't stop paying attention, because you posted to this thread.