What does DU think about Russia's conduct/behavior re: Ukraine?

[geek tragedy]

So, let's see what people really think here at DU, what's the consensus.

Note, this is not about what the US is doing, what the EU is doing, what anyone else is doing--though one could certainly weigh their actions when judging what Russia is doing.

15 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Russia's actions are entirely proper and justified
	0 (0%)
	Russia's actions are mostly proper and justified
	1 (7%)
	Russia's actions are neither worthy of praise or criticism
	0 (0%)
	Russia's actions are mostly improper and unjustified
	1 (7%)
	Russia's actions are entirely improper and unjustified
	13 (87%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[hrmjustin]

1. Improper and unjustified.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. You left out the "It's none of our business" option.

[geek tragedy]

4. if you have no opinion on Russia's conduct, that is fine, you don't need to vote nt

[Pretzel_Warrior]

7. Whatever.

[HappyMe]

3. There's no reason for or any

justification for Russia's actions.

[LittleBlue]

5. I voted "neither worthy of praise nor criticism"

On one hand, they don't have the best interest of the Ukrainian people at heart.

On the other hand, they serve as a useful counterbalance to western interests and Ukrainian extremists.

I can't see the Ukrainians ever being winners in this regardless of the outcome. Russia wants to impose their anti-democratic model, and the west wants to impose Greek-style austerity. Perhaps the country should be split so that those who wish to be part of one over the other may do so.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

8. Bizarre take

[LittleBlue]

9. Nuanced take

I'd rather not be a cheerleader in this conflict. I don't believe that Ukraine can win this.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

11. So any killing of Ukrainians the Russians could potentially engage in will be

Ameliorated in your mind because Russia acts as a counter balance to the west? Oookaaay then.

[LittleBlue]

13. "Could potentially engage in"

Hmmm... why don't we talk about that when it happens?

I suppose I could trot out "any pogroms neo Nazis could potentially engage in", but that would be speculative, wouldn't it?

[morningfog]

35. When did Russia kill any Ukrainians? They haven't.

[1awake]

18. as far as I can see,

I can't see the Ukrainians ever being winners in this regardless of the outcome.

It is a forgone conclusion that Ukraine is going to lose either way. It just depends on how.

[dembotoz]

6. maybe i am just old--cold war, duck and cover old--trusting putin is just stupid

[Scuba]

10. How about "Not enough information".

Based on the US press and other loud voices, it's just like the Nazi's invading Poland. It's probably unjustified, but if, for example, the problems in the Ukraine were the result of meddling by a foreign intelligence agency, perhaps not as unjustified as one might be led to believe.

It's healthy to be skeptical of what you read in the American press.

[geek tragedy]

12. certainly it's not Nazis in Poland. Not even Bush and Iraq.

Ukraine wasn't a hermetically sealed vacuum in which no outside influences participated, certainly I would not say the US and others were entirely blameless or altruistic in this affair

[spanone]

14. putin's conduct is as reprehensible as bu$h's iraq conduct

[geek tragedy]

15. I wouldn't go quite that far, but even 1/10th as bad as Bush in that regard

is wholly unacceptable.

[spanone]

19. you're right, bu$h is in a league of his own

[hrmjustin]

16. They want Crimea and are taking it from a sovereign nation.

[geek tragedy]

17. Yes, though it is possible that Crimeans want to be subject to decisions

made in Moscow and surrender their rights accordingly, there is no way to make a valid determination while a foreign occupying army is 'guarding' the ballot box.

[hrmjustin]

20. We would never allow a state to leave so I understand Ukraine's view on this.

There maybe a referendum but the Russians have to leave first for it to be even considered legit.

But even if they vote for it The Ukrainian constitution requires a nationwide referendum for it to be legal.

[geek tragedy]

22. remember Stalin's credo: what matters is not who votes or how, but rather

who counts the votes.

[hrmjustin]

23. Reminds me of Florida.

[geek tragedy]

26. Putin has learned several lessons from Bush Cheney it would appear. nt

[indie9197]

21. What else would Putin do?

Crimea fell into his lap, especially now that their Parliament voted to join Russia. If Russia takes Crimea without bloodshed against Ukraine, Putin will come out smelling like a rose.

[hrmjustin]

24. Fell into his lap?

[geek tragedy]

25. he doesn't smell like a rose to the people in neighboring countries to the west

Indeed, to the people of the Baltic states and what's left of Ukraine (and the EU for that matter) he comes out stinking like a regional imperialist bully.

No doubt this will provide the EU plenty of incentive to wean themselves off of Russian energy, and for several other former USSR Republics to demand NATO protect their borders.

[indie9197]

30. It was a predictable move and the EU should have seen it coming.

I agree it is probably not in the best interest of the Russian people if they want to join the 21st century.

[geek tragedy]

33. EU hasn't been guilty of foresight and good judgment lately, has it? nt

[11 Bravo]

27. According to the clear wording of an agreement signed by Russia it's actions are not only ...

improper and unjustified, but flatly illegal.

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. Very interesting results, indeed. n/t

[geek tragedy]

29. considerable consensus, a refreshing change nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

31. Has the worm turned, ya think?

[geek tragedy]

32. I don't think the site was ever big fans of Vladdy and rt.com

very few outliers

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. "Very few", but initially very vocal, especially in their defense of RT. In recent days, however,

they seem to be lying low, but that hasn't stopped the false equivalencies.

[morningfog]

36. I vote improper, but justified.

It is wrong what they are doing. I wouldn't support the actions if it were my country doing it. But, I understand it. I don't support it, but it makes sense.

My bottom line is that the US needs to stay the fuck out of the mess. It isn't ours.

[Electric Monk]

37. He's just following the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war. Can you prove Crimea wasn't about to

attack Russia?

That's right, and I can't either.



FUCK BUSH.

[geek tragedy]

38. As I said somewhere else, Putin is running the Bush-Cheney playbook with

great fidelity.

When Bush looked into his eyes and saw Vladdy's soul, it was a genuine love connection.

[Electric Monk]

39. As long as Bush/Cheney remain un-prosecuted, Putin knows we don't have the moral authority

to condemn his invasion of Crimea without being blatant hypocrites.

[geek tragedy]

40. I don't think anyone's advocating putting Pooty Poot in prison

Just that he not invade his neighbors.

Moral authority is quite besides the point, what matters are consequences.

[Electric Monk]

41. Plenty of people have advocated jailing Putin, even before he invaded Crimea

2012 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/vladimir-putin-jail_n_1279591.html

[geek tragedy]

42. he belongs there, but of course he's not going anywhere.

some criminals are above the law