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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUkraine: far-right extremists at core of 'democracy' protest
Poorly covered was the fact that the new Kiev administration came to power with the support of violence and threats that neo-nazi groups Svoboda and Right Sector (which grew out of Maiden) delivered. This is an integral part of the story of how we ended up where things are now in Ukraine.
http://www.channel4.com/news/kiev-svoboda-far-right-protests-right-sector-riot-police
" groups of "autonomous nationalists" separate from Svoboda, who recruit from far-right football hooligan groups, have taken a leading role in the fighting. ..... (Another group) Acting under the name Pravy Sektor, they are reported to have 500 militants inside government buildings seized by the protesters."
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"Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok is one of the faces of the protests, appearing regularly along with opposition leader and former boxer Vitali Klitschko (see picture right) voicing opposition to Putin's influence over the region.
However, Tyahnybok has provoked controversy in the past with his anti-Semitic claims that a "Moscow-Jewish mafia" controls Ukraine."
Below: Tyahnybok on the stage along side Klitschop.
(Above: militants carry shields marked with neo-Nazi logos)
.......
The full article: http://www.channel4.com/news/kiev-svoboda-far-right-protests-right-sector-riot-police
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)This is the third installment in Timothy Snyders series on Russian ideology and the Ukrainian revolution. Earlier articles examined the Kremlins Eurasian ideology and its propaganda about the Kiev uprising.
<snip>
Parliament declared that he had abandoned his responsibilities, followed the protocols that applied to such a case, and continued the process of constitutional reform by itself. Presidential elections were called for May, and a new government was formed. The prime minister is a liberal conservative, one of the two deputy prime ministers is Jewish, and the governor of the important eastern province of Dnipropetrovsk is the president of the Congress of Ukrainian Jewish Organizations. Although one can certainly debate the constitutional nuances, this process was not a coup. And it certainly was not fascist. Reducing the powers of the president, calling presidential elections, and restoring the principles of democracy are the opposite of what fascism would demand. Leaders of the Jewish community have declared their unambiguous support for the new government and their total opposition to the Russian invasion.
Of the eighteen cabinet posts that have been filled in the new government, three are held by members of the far right party, Svoboda. Its leader had less than 2 percent support in a recent opinion pollone that was taken after the Russian invasion of Crimea, an event that presumably would help the nationalists. In any event, this is the grain of truth from which, according to the traditional rules of propaganda, Putins fascist coup has been concocted.
The second conceit, that of the oppression of Russian citizens in the Ukraine, lacks even this. Over the last few months one Russian citizen has been killed in Ukraine. He was not threatened by Ukrainian protestors or by the current government. Quite the opposite. He was fighting for the Ukrainian revolution, and was killed by a snipers bullet.
In any case, since Ukraine does not allow double citizenship, there are few Russian citizens resident in the country. But lets consider those that are: One notable group are the soldiers and sailors at the military base at Sevastopol. Since these are military men on a military base, they hardly need protection. Another major group are those masked Russian special-forces who are now occupying Crimea. A third are the Russians who have been bused across the border to stage pro-Russian demonstrations and beat Ukrainian students in the cities of eastern Ukraine. A final group of Russian citizens are former Ukrainian riot policemen who took part in the suppression of demonstrations. Having been rewarded for their actions with a Russian passport, they can and do travel to Russia. None of these groups, by any stretch of the imagination, could be plausibly described as a victimized minority requiring protection.
<snip>
More: http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/mar/07/crimea-putin-vs-reality/
newthinking
(3,982 posts)I understand there is a PR war ongoing. That is one reason I post here, there are some very serious components to the overthrow that are being whitewashed. Without recognizing the reality of what happened in Kiev one cannot understand what happened afterwards.
This editorial also conveniently avoids discussing why parliment was fairly empty of the Party of Regions when the overthrow occurred. Neo-Nazi's, who were at the core of the movement, threatened them and their families. They fled or surrendered not because of a legitimate protest, but because of the mafia like activity of the neo-nazi groups.
And the "point" that Russian speaking Ukrainians have not been hurt is a red herring. Half the country sees what happened as a coup. Are they supposed to just accept that? They just watched a violent overthrow and removal of all their representation and replaced with groups that were a mix of Nationalists and Neo-Nazi's. They understand far better than we in the west what Svoboda and the other right wing groups were about. Of course they will resist.
Anyone would be afraid with this going on:
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Yeah, I noticed that too. You ate actually part of the problem. Putin has taken notes in global warming debate and assiduously applied it to Syria and now Ukraine crises.
If he, through propaganda and misinformation can introduce enough doubt, he can hope to confuse the fat and dumb American populace into inaction. Not a tough sell. We love inaction.
But it is not working. Many Americans are seeing through his crude attempts and realizing this is actually a dangerous guy who must be contained.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)your own eyes, and there are plenty who understand that in the liberal sphere.
I refuse to simplify this into Cold War rhetoric. That simplistic understanding of event is surely how neo-liberals and hawks want us to see it. But that kind of view of the world has been proven to leave multitudes of innocents dead.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)If the People of Russia want to put up with it, that is their business. Ukrainins got tired of being run by Russia and protested against their puppet in Kiev.
There were liberals, moderates, conservatives, far right and all manner of people rising up against Yanukovych.
There is no far-right menace controlling the reins of power as Putin and you would have us believe.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,201 posts)Rinse repeat.
Igel
(35,358 posts)Especially when they confirm what we always knew to be the case, even before we had any facts.
Yes, there were fascists involved. Most of them set up a base a few blocks away from the Maidan. That's where some of the really violent early acts were done. The Euromaidantsy themselves basically had no use for them and rejected them.
Yanukovich and his Berkut didn't draw a distinction. The two groups merged--the Maidantsy spread, to be sure; but when both were attacked they had a common defense against a common foe. It's hard to distinguish between the two groups when they mingle. And the fascists were more given to violence, so they were at the heart of much of the violence: Not that they necessarily started it in all or even most cases, but they were more likely to stand their ground than run with their tails between their legs. This garnered them some support. It also caused a lot of people that *weren't* fascist to team up with Svoboda.
What's amusing is the truth in what, of all people, Khodorskovsky said: Yes, there were fascists and Nazis in the Maidan, but probably not a really different percentage than you find in Moscow or Crimea.
Which is the point that's been missed. We only see what confirms our bias. We overlook the fascists in Crimea, in Russia--those who chant "Rossiya! Rossiya!" when they hear of Russian troops doing something to insult, humiliate, or threaten Ukraine or Tatars. We overlook the majority of non-fascists in the Maidan, to the point of letting unanswered go as to how that anti-Jewish Nazi Jew Yatseniuk can be in charge of such a Nazi government. The answer produces cognitive dissonance. They are nationalists but not Nazis, just as Banderists were "Nazi" in that they fought the Red Army and were allied with Hitler, but as soon as space opened up in the Ukraine for them to fight the Wehrmacht they turned on the Wehrmacht and fought both the Russians *and* the Germans. Both occupied Ukraine, which had been occupied for centuries. (A lot of "liberation movements" are very, very nationalistic. It's the whole them-versus-us thing, setting up group boundaries.)
Let's look at a parallel in the US. There were anarchists in the OWS movement. There were also progressives, liberals, all sorts. It wasn't a solely anarchist movement, controlled, peopled, motivated purely by anarchists. If you look at some media on the right, though, they point to anarchists and anarchist-led events and say, "See--all anarchists, all the time. OWS was pure anarchism, led only by anarchists." They have evidence to support their views. It's what they want to believe. Voila: It's proven, QED. Except that they get to their "QED" by selective picking of the facts. It fails the critical-thinking test. Anarchists were at the core of the OWS movement; they were not the entirety of the core of the OWS movement, and their role in the OWS movement changed over time as the OWS morphed. OWS had a different trajectory in the US than the Maidan did (with, no doubt, some loons somewhere trying to claim that OWS was a foreign plot), but had the response to it been more violent you'd have found more violent types playing a bigger role, an evolution caused by external factors and self-selection (less than natural selection).
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)newthinking
(3,982 posts)You simply cannot equivocate the two.
Something quite different happened. They were embraced and it was the neo-nazi's that provided "security", were allowed to intimidate and threaten the families of opposition politicians "mafiastyle", took over the government, and were given cabinet level positions. Sure, they kept hands off the western PMs so that those PMs could then create law in the absence of any opposition.
This situation is far different by magnitudes and that is why we must be careful how we deal with it. And by dismissing it as solely a Geopolitical struggle of Russia vs the west we do a terrible disservice to the truth and marginalize real people and put them in further danger.
Empathy.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://americablog.com/2014/03/meet-vladimir-putin-favorite-neo-nazis-russia-crimea.html
"This situation is far different by magnitudes and that is why we must be careful how we deal with it. And by dismissing it as solely a Geopolitical struggle of Russia vs the west we do a terrible disservice to the truth and marginalize real people and put them in further danger. "
As I said here (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024634647#post3), the problem is that some are hyping the power and influence of the far right, and there is a lot of screaming about Nazis.
Stand with Big Vladdy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024633791
newthinking
(3,982 posts)This is video from a town hall meeting, local politicians at the front (Nazi's behind them). They enter the building grab the microphone, then proceed to intimidate the citizens and threaten the politicians if they do not leave their positions. This happened throughout Ukraine.
It is one thing to present a viewpoint, another to whitewash what is a very serious and threatening component of what is going on.
There will be an election in May, but because the parties of half the country have been effectively killed off by threats on them and their families and burning down their building, there is no way to have representation for half the country. The new government will be even more unrepresentative and certainly Nazi's will gain further power.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)this? Is it really necessary to do so to "win" Crimea?
newthinking
(3,982 posts)How is that not central to what is going on? How can you not expect events to happen based on that.
If it really were only that they were "part" of the movement, then they would not be in charge of the Ukrainian Military. That indicates that either they are firmly in the middle of the new government, or the new government is so afraid of them that they felt they needed to give them the critical posts.
How can you deny that things would not continue to seriously escalate with such a cabinet? Are people supposed to now just roll over if Nazi's take control of the military? Please, stay to that component and try to explain why it is acceptable and not incendiary to have Nazi's in these cabinet positions?
Catherina
(35,568 posts)I posted their last article "FAIR: Denying the Far-Right Role in the Ukrainian Revolution" a few minutes ago.
When the Left complained that Brezinski was arming extremists in Afghanistan we heard the same denials, the same whitewashing. Then 30, 40 years later everyone acts as shocked they were lied to. And lied to over and over again, without interruption. When does this country wake up and realize the corporate media are lackeys? Martin Luther King, Malcolm X talked about this at length. The NYT bent over backwards to smear Martin Luther King while he was alive. Now he's a front page soundbite reduced to an insipid holiday of cute little kids holding hands on a mountaintop but nothing about the mountain of dead bodies under it, nothing about imperialism, the military industrial complex, labor, exploitation etc that he railed about.
What a joke the corporate media has become.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)if he were alive.
Viva Putun! Viva Yanukovych!
newthinking
(3,982 posts)So much so that any chance of EMPATHY and further understanding for them is wiped out. And so forceful is the whitewash that we are actually justifying the rise of a government that is aligned with Nazi's. It is hilarious to see people like our own Hillary Clinton use the term "Hitler", when the ones in Cabinet positions in Ukraine are the real thing.
Bill and Hillary met with one of the financiers of the protest movement in Levinsky Palace (Crimea), interestingly enough the same location that Stalin, Rosevelt, and Churchill met to discuss the end phase of WWII.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/what-do-tony-blair-dominique-strausskahn-and-hillary-clinton-have-in-common-8830374.html
"For 10 years now many of the worlds biggest fish have gathered on the shores of the comparatively small pond that is the Black Sea to shoot the geopolitical breeze, at the financial behest of a Ukrainian billionaire-cum-politician-cum-philanthropist. If macro-socio-economic concerns are what get you going, the beautiful little seaside town of Yalta on the Crimean peninsula is the place to be this weekend. Tony Blair is here, both the Clintons, General David Petraeus, Dominique Strauss-Kahn (who in the brochure lists his spare-time interests as music, paintings, skiing and chess), former World Bank boss Robert Zoellick, and a full-on roster of the great and the not so great of Eastern European politics."
IT'S ALL PUTIN!!!!
Catherina
(35,568 posts)despite the media's compliance. If you read the comments on non-partisan sites like The Guardian, for example, very few people are buying it.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)It is a left-leaning publication, not that there is anything wrong with that.