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MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 11:59 PM Mar 2014

My dumbest question ever... how do people shtup these days?

No, of course I know a variety of parts and places they can go, I mean the process leading up to the deed.

A friend of ours is getting divorced, a former fraternity brother. Nasty divorce after decades, I guess it happens but a head scratcher. He'll do fine, as will his ex, both lovely high-functioning people.

He's starting to date again which has me thinking back to our fraternity days (Carl Sagan's next-door neighbors, coincidentally). Back then, the process normally consisted of dancing, alcohol (and sometimes other state-enhancers), kissing, yadda yadda yadda... Then

No real discussions beforehand, and yes, no meant no.

(NB: As far as I know we were all nice guys, we had a great reputation with normal women although the high-end sororities were not fans. Our campus had 50 fraternities, half of men lived in frats, so it wasn't one of these situations where all the frat guys are jerks. Also, this was right before AIDS became a big issue so STDs were in a whole different place.)

In any case, my buddy's new situation has me thinking... how do people move from "nice to meet you!" to "um, I'm having trouble with this clip thing"?

I eventually married my college sweetie, so I never really lived the evolution of courtship and mating in modern times. I'd imagine that it's roughly the same as a few decades ago, but it seems like it would be more deliberative. Are there discussions that should/must be had? Papers to sign (I doubt it, but...?). Other? Or does nature still tend to do its thing rather effortlessly?

If this question is offensive I'll be happy to take it down, if it's inappropriate the hosts will save me that trouble.

178 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
My dumbest question ever... how do people shtup these days? (Original Post) MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 OP
Well we can go back to the very first days. Rex Mar 2014 #1
Rex I totally get what your saying, In fact I now see there are Autumn Mar 2014 #68
I've always said you were smarter than the average bear! Rex Mar 2014 #104
Hey I am so smart I think I am making peace with Windows 8. Autumn Mar 2014 #110
Wow you must have reached Nirvana! Rex Mar 2014 #128
Yeah I had an automatic update to 8.1 a couple days l after I got my new laptop. Autumn Mar 2014 #129
Yeah the next generations are going to look at us like Rex Mar 2014 #138
"at one time we peed & threw our own feces at each other to express gratitude & general attraction" Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #139
You, sir, win the double plated golden derby award! Rex Mar 2014 #141
Sure, taunt me with reminders of my big-eared childhood. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #142
. frwrfpos Mar 2014 #168
I got nuthin'... TeeYiYi Mar 2014 #174
What exactly is a "normal" woman Manny? sheshe2 Mar 2014 #2
In this case, ones that weren't hubristic members of the 1%. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #3
For real???? Matariki Mar 2014 #6
Literally. I didn't really know her, it was a big school. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #8
Well wow. And I always suspected she was a performance artist Matariki Mar 2014 #16
Who didn't know Ann at Cornell? And by that, I mean carnally. Seriously...you never met her? msanthrope Mar 2014 #19
Only barely plus. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #24
What frat? nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #25
Alpha Normal Women MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #28
You seem a might touchy lately, Manny BainsBane Mar 2014 #52
Wow. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #31
A rather touchy persona, no??? nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #69
I would have to say yes to that. nt sheshe2 Mar 2014 #145
Well Ann Coulter is in a class all of her own. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #15
It seems like you are looking for a fight where none is merited. Matariki Mar 2014 #17
How do you define "normal women"? sheshe2 Mar 2014 #21
That's not what I said. At all. Not even close. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #18
Categorizing women is offensive. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #26
Have a good night MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #29
Dismiss the silly woman? sheshe2 Mar 2014 #30
A person with a *whit* of sense would have written something like "Gee, Manny, MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #33
So have you changed your OP yet? sheshe2 Mar 2014 #38
You've been posting for just about 18 months. bahrbearian Mar 2014 #84
That would be a quality that many of our poster sadly do not possess. Puglover Mar 2014 #107
Well...see post 33 sheshe2 Mar 2014 #115
You, Bainesbane and msanthrope seem to want personal information from Manny Autumn Mar 2014 #120
What personal information am I requesting? sheshe2 Mar 2014 #121
Reading is a skill, I didn't say you were "requesting' it. Autumn Mar 2014 #122
I didn't solicit any personal information BainsBane Mar 2014 #147
How was that post you linked to gossiping about you? Violet_Crumble Mar 2014 #150
She linked to it in the Lounge. BainsBane Mar 2014 #164
There weren't any links to the Lounge in her post... Violet_Crumble Mar 2014 #165
I think I see your comprehension problem. You misunderstood what she wrote. R B Garr Mar 2014 #166
I don't have a comprehension problem Violet_Crumble Mar 2014 #167
You seem touchy. Did I offend by posting in a protected group? Look in a mirror Autumn Mar 2014 #161
Naturally you see no difference between personal gossip and talking about racism BainsBane Mar 2014 #162
It's easy to see you. Autumn Mar 2014 #163
man, your dense,, bahrbearian Mar 2014 #124
pot, kettle. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #125
by the way; sheshe2 Mar 2014 #143
Because the point is not to post BainsBane Mar 2014 #148
You two are a pair. bahrbearian Mar 2014 #157
You are the one who interpreted the words tkmorris Mar 2014 #35
Really? No, I did it well. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #45
Is categorizing men offensive? Jim Lane Mar 2014 #111
LOL Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #47
I've said it before, Manny. You could post a fucking meat loaf recipe and someone ... 11 Bravo Mar 2014 #91
+1. GoneFishin Mar 2014 #101
Manny didn't say or imply or even suggest that a woman that has self-confidence is hubristic Vattel Mar 2014 #81
Please. Spare us. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #132
Okay,you lost me. What proves my hatred? Vattel Mar 2014 #134
I was being sarcastic, sorry. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #136
oh, sorry, usually I pick up on your sarcasm or facetiousness. Vattel Mar 2014 #137
definition! sheshe2 Mar 2014 #144
Hubris is excessive self-confidence, not any sort of self-confidence Vattel Mar 2014 #154
Logic challenged. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #87
+1. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #92
+1. GoneFishin Mar 2014 #102
Also take note of the subtle Puglover Mar 2014 #126
The thing about 1 percenters BainsBane Mar 2014 #53
Indeed...I await the explanation. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #20
Don't hold your breath... sheshe2 Mar 2014 #27
out of his many personas, his "put upon victim" persona is the least professional... dionysus Mar 2014 #36
He haz a sad :( sheshe2 Mar 2014 #43
He pulled it last night with me BainsBane Mar 2014 #54
by trying to multitr,task, he's letting his work suffer. dionysus Mar 2014 #55
I have noticed that BainsBane Mar 2014 #56
a poorly recycled mel brooks act.... "hey! where's a fella gotta go to shtup around here! oy!" dionysus Mar 2014 #57
You Better Believe It!!!! nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #70
Spreading into gender issues treestar Mar 2014 #76
Yes and~ sheshe2 Mar 2014 #59
!!! he's in character even in his alerts!! dionysus Mar 2014 #60
:) sheshe2 Mar 2014 #61
wow, just further proof this thread was nothing but flypaper to get posts hidden R B Garr Mar 2014 #100
the put upon victim thing from the left treestar Mar 2014 #72
You've been given the explanation. Jim Lane Mar 2014 #108
That stuck out for me too treestar Mar 2014 #71
Notice the others that I asked... sheshe2 Mar 2014 #146
how do people move from "nice to meet you!" to "um, I'm having trouble with this clip thing"? DJ13 Mar 2014 #4
The smooth move these days is to pull out a virtual wallet and send across a couple of bitcoins BlueStreak Mar 2014 #32
Using something known as geek tragedy Mar 2014 #5
What are these "social skills" you speak? nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #7
Mostly specialties like geek tragedy Mar 2014 #12
"Thinking" and "listening", what are these things? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #14
You know, Mitt Romney had those exact questions. nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #22
Treating the women like other people rather than treestar Mar 2014 #78
pick-up artists are misogynists, without exception in my experience nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #79
Social skills work on 'normal' women??? Who knew??? nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #23
Fully clothed. n/t A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #9
This post might give a partial explanation to your curiosity... adirondacker Mar 2014 #10
Au contrare! MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #13
Thankyou Jesus mother nature still does its thang with me ... MindMover Mar 2014 #11
First you need to negotiate dating unless you want to pay a call girl Warpy Mar 2014 #34
I don't find it offensive either, why would ANYONE find it offensive? sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #41
I'm glad someone around here has some perspective. Vattel Mar 2014 #83
+1. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #93
appropriate for the Lounge, Manny. nt 7wo7rees Mar 2014 #37
I gave it up for Lent Fumesucker Mar 2014 #39
Internet dating seems to be the way these days for shtupping, for guys anyway. Cleita Mar 2014 #40
no, there are plenty of women who enjoy meeting a guy and just having sex JI7 Mar 2014 #42
I don't know any woman who just does sex unless she's in the business. Cleita Mar 2014 #46
most of the girls/women i have known have wanted just sex and nothing more JI7 Mar 2014 #50
Well, I stand corrected, but I have never known one. n/t Cleita Mar 2014 #86
It's your age JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #152
Really? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #62
I went through most of my 20's without the intention giftedgirl77 Mar 2014 #89
I did and I wasn't in "the business." Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #105
It's called hooking up JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #151
yes Cleita, far be it from any man to actually want a relationship.... dionysus Mar 2014 #44
C'mon. I never said that. I said guys who are out looking for shtupping are not looking for Cleita Mar 2014 #48
then i misunderstood you and i apologize. dionysus Mar 2014 #49
I hear you, but what she really said is that men on the internet are liars R B Garr Mar 2014 #58
Note whoever wants less is in "control" treestar Mar 2014 #75
Ask Lily Von Shtupp edbermac Mar 2014 #51
One of the greats! Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #106
People are still having sex. Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #63
Since you asked... yes, it is inappropriate for a political forum. theHandpuppet Mar 2014 #64
Your Forgot To Add "In Your Opinion" ProfessorGAC Mar 2014 #65
If you don't want opinions, don't pose questions. theHandpuppet Mar 2014 #66
Gee Manny. Lately I read your threads and it's like falling into a kaleidescope Autumn Mar 2014 #67
The corporate brigade is feeling a bit "bludgeoned." woo me with science Mar 2014 #85
it's the same as it was then only the choice of beverage has changed. ;) lol nt Javaman Mar 2014 #73
Less booze, more coffee. In_The_Wind Mar 2014 #103
on second thought... Javaman Mar 2014 #116
I'm actually agreeing with your first statement. In_The_Wind Mar 2014 #117
Okay... Javaman Mar 2014 #118
No problem In_The_Wind Mar 2014 #119
Why do people insist there must be some set of rules to follow that treestar Mar 2014 #74
"get to know" MissMillie Mar 2014 #80
That's sad. redqueen Mar 2014 #96
Well that's sad too. cui bono Mar 2014 #156
That's very sad. MineralMan Mar 2014 #97
I never dated a guy I did not know first Skittles Mar 2014 #140
It happens naturally or you're doing it wrong. nt Lex Mar 2014 #77
Manny, Manny, Manny Berlum Mar 2014 #82
Individual people; individual experiences. MineralMan Mar 2014 #88
Beats me, but I can't hear a single person here... snooper2 Mar 2014 #90
Yes, a dumb question, but... MineralMan Mar 2014 #94
I thought that said "shutup". Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #95
what is it ? Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2014 #99
Nope, but he did forget a "p." :) ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #113
Well... I think that's not a settled issue MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #131
I thought so to undeterred Mar 2014 #112
I would have to say it's a lot easier now. polly7 Mar 2014 #98
Willingness to explore natural bisexual inclinations doubles your chances for a date. Zorra Mar 2014 #109
You underestimate yourself... LanternWaste Mar 2014 #114
You’re right, “roughly the same” but some differences Jim Lane Mar 2014 #123
Thank you! Finally an answer to the question I tried to ask! MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #130
Where the hell does one get a dental dam? hack89 Mar 2014 #158
Sex shop or online Jim Lane Mar 2014 #159
Thanks. n hack89 Mar 2014 #160
Aswan? Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #169
Hoover. Has to be US made. Nt hack89 Mar 2014 #170
You know, I considered that, and then i thought "but Hoover isn't actually a geographic location" Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #171
Loose minds and loose standards always make humor easier. nt hack89 Mar 2014 #172
I got the last one down Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #173
Frat boys who don't know how to communicate with women... A shock... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #127
At first glance, I thought he was Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #133
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #135
Missionary, with the lights out. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2014 #149
Love.. sendero Mar 2014 #153
Just be glad you aren't out there JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #155
With my wife, the shtuping was easy LittleBlue Mar 2014 #175
IIRC it is the same as ever. If you are looking to bump uglies hit the bar and catch like minded eye Vincardog Mar 2014 #176
I suspect the same way(s) as in Ye Olden Days. WinkyDink Mar 2014 #177
Naughty texting is unbelievably effective at setting the stage. Codeine Mar 2014 #178
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
1. Well we can go back to the very first days.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:09 AM
Mar 2014

I'm sure at one time we peed and threw our own feces at each other to express gratitude and general attraction. Those things came from us, so we probably thought they were valuable.

Future dating one day will be done on machines...oh...nm...

Autumn

(44,686 posts)
68. Rex I totally get what your saying, In fact I now see there are
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 07:29 AM
Mar 2014

some posters in this thread that want to shtup Manny basted on the amount of feces they throw at Manny to express their gratitude and general attraction.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
128. Wow you must have reached Nirvana!
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 06:21 PM
Mar 2014

To be THAT patient and understanding. I read that they already have a Windows 8.1.

Autumn

(44,686 posts)
129. Yeah I had an automatic update to 8.1 a couple days l after I got my new laptop.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 06:29 PM
Mar 2014

But it's not as bad as I thought it would be. I am enjoying all the apps and the tiles are so convenient. But in all truth I have cheated a bit, my 9 year old Grand Daughter has a tablet so she has been a little help there. How crazy is that.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
138. Yeah the next generations are going to look at us like
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 11:59 PM
Mar 2014

we were all dinosaurs! They probably won't be able to visualize life before the internet.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
139. "at one time we peed & threw our own feces at each other to express gratitude & general attraction"
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 03:13 AM
Mar 2014

Yeah, but meta got shut down, remember?
 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
3. In this case, ones that weren't hubristic members of the 1%.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:18 AM
Mar 2014

e.g., Ann Coulter was my classmate, she was in one of the non-normal-woman sororities - most of their members were similar to Coulter other than having better impulse control.

But I get your point, that's a tough thing to call.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
8. Literally. I didn't really know her, it was a big school.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:32 AM
Mar 2014

She helped found our idiot Conservative paper and was a ringleader in destroying a shantytown erected in the Arts Quad to protest the school's investments in apartheid South Africa.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
16. Well wow. And I always suspected she was a performance artist
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:39 AM
Mar 2014

and not really the over-the-top rightwing nutjob she pretends to be.

I guess either she's been performing since college or she really is a despicable as she seems

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
19. Who didn't know Ann at Cornell? And by that, I mean carnally. Seriously...you never met her?
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:42 AM
Mar 2014

Hmmm...that puts you on the plus 50 side, older than I thought.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
24. Only barely plus.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:46 AM
Mar 2014

As my friend Bill, another frat member (who actually might have known Ann a bit better) says... "Sure you're only young once, but you can be immature your whole life"

sheshe2

(83,137 posts)
15. Well Ann Coulter is in a class all of her own.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:39 AM
Mar 2014

A bigot and a zealot. A truly hateful hateful person. She is not even in my category a human being.

Yet...

So a "normal" woman that has self confidence in herself is hubristic? Self confidence is bad in a woman?

Wow Manny you have a boatload of respect of women, thanks for your powerful manly explanation of what a "normal" woman is. Good that you have classified us.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
18. That's not what I said. At all. Not even close.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:42 AM
Mar 2014

You're just trying to cause a foodfight, and say hurtful things about me.

sheshe2

(83,137 posts)
26. Categorizing women is offensive.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:48 AM
Mar 2014

It is hurtful to women.

I did not post the OP Manny, you did and you are the one that said the words. I did not.

sheshe2

(83,137 posts)
30. Dismiss the silly woman?
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:57 AM
Mar 2014

Lawd, I feel a fainting spell coming on~

You defined "normal women". You brought it into your OP, Manny. I did not. Your words and now you are having trouble taking them back when someone finds them offensive.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
33. A person with a *whit* of sense would have written something like "Gee, Manny,
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:04 AM
Mar 2014

you might want to rephrase what you said, some people find that hurtful."

You, on the other hand, just made #%^* up then followed with this pile of refuse:

Wow Manny you have a boatload of respect of women, thanks for your powerful manly explanation of what a "normal" woman is. Good that you have classified us.

This is the kind of garbage behavior that makes DU less than its former self.

sheshe2

(83,137 posts)
38. So have you changed your OP yet?
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:09 AM
Mar 2014

Nope.

Aaaah, so now I am a person with no sense.

You are right about one thing...

This is the kind of garbage behavior that makes DU less than its former self.

bahrbearian

(13,466 posts)
84. You've been posting for just about 18 months.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 09:09 AM
Mar 2014

and post

This is the kind of garbage behavior that makes DU less than its former self.
. You flood the place with almost 13,000 post. And you can't figure out how DU is less than its former self. Look in the mirror.

sheshe2

(83,137 posts)
115. Well...see post 33
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:46 PM
Mar 2014

That was a direct quote from Manny. I just copied and pasted that excerpt from his post. That's why I posted it with this



And what does my post count and time at DU have to do with anything?

Autumn

(44,686 posts)
120. You, Bainesbane and msanthrope seem to want personal information from Manny
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:14 PM
Mar 2014

are you going to offer your personal information?

BainsBane

(52,999 posts)
147. I didn't solicit any personal information
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:52 AM
Mar 2014

What a ridiculous comment.

I will request that you quit talking about me period, whether it's to make nonsensical comments about this thread or gossiping in a group from which I am banned. It's petty.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111413342#post10

I don't know what your problem is, and frankly I don't care. Keep it to yourself.

Why some people think DU exists for them to cultivate personal enmity out of complete strangers, I have no idea. Just leave me out of your junior-high cafeteria gossip.

BainsBane

(52,999 posts)
164. She linked to it in the Lounge.
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 02:25 PM
Mar 2014

If you had followed the lounge thread, you would see it is gossip about me. Moreover, she doesn't deny it. Ask her.

Is your contention that if I had a group trashed, that makes it acceptable for members there to gossip about me? Or is my crime seeing it and disturbing the God given right to trash feminists? It is fascinating to see how determined you are to excuse others for what you lecture HOF and its members about.

Violet_Crumble

(35,954 posts)
165. There weren't any links to the Lounge in her post...
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 03:59 PM
Mar 2014

I guess you wouldn't be able to see that, seeing as how you said that you have the Men's Group trashed...

And I wouldn't call what I said a contention. I'd describe it as wondering out loud how someone who has a group on ignore can read that group. I thought the whole point of trashing a group was that it vanished totally. If there's a glitch in the system that makes the group visible to you, maybe you should alert the Admins to that? It kind of defeats the purpose of the trash function...

I've read the next few posts and I'm even more curious now. You said: 'Skinner saw what that Lounge thread was and supported the lock.' Where did Skinner say this?

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
166. I think I see your comprehension problem. You misunderstood what she wrote.
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 04:33 PM
Mar 2014

In your eagerness to discuss the Men's Group and then discuss whether or not someone has the Men's Group trashed and what significance that has to someone's credibility or possibly to some mysterious glitches in the system, you overlooked that all your dialogue and accusations were unnecessary because the link was from the Lounge to the thread in question. Look up post No. 16 in the Lounge thread. It was just that simple, and I am probably one of the least technical people here.

BTW, have you answered Manny's question he posed in this OP about how his friend can get laid by normal women? Or maybe this thread was really intended for posts such as yours that are basically a continuation of previous snipes. Hmmm.

Violet_Crumble

(35,954 posts)
167. I don't have a comprehension problem
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 08:16 PM
Mar 2014

And I don't think wondering how someone who claims they've got a group trashed is still able to read it and comment on posts in the group is an eagerness to discuss a group. I'm just not seeing how if someone does have a group or forum trashed they'd be able to still read it, and I'm not sure why you've popped up with a rather nasty post like that

On edit - I haven't used trash so I just tested it out. I dug back and found the link in the lounge thread and it is viewable even when the group is trashed. Explaining that politely instead of going into nasty, accusatory mode would have been nice, btw. I am still curious to know where skinner said thAt he supported the lock. But will drop it as it's not worth being yelled at for daring to ask a question.

Have a nice day

Autumn

(44,686 posts)
161. You seem touchy. Did I offend by posting in a protected group? Look in a mirror
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 11:19 AM
Mar 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11875357 That's one there are others.

I don't care to look them up because I am bored with people who think that only they have a right to an opinion.

BainsBane

(52,999 posts)
162. Naturally you see no difference between personal gossip and talking about racism
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 02:22 PM
Mar 2014

None of those comments were about you. Aside from MIRT, you never have entered my mind so I can hardly have talked about you.
So what exactly is your complaint? That anyone dare object to racism? That African Americans have a safe haven group? That anyone on this site has the audacity to consider the interests of anyone other than white people?

I don't think I'm the only person who has a right to an opinion. My opinions are about matters of substance. I assumed yours were about nothing but some random distaste for me, but now I see it's that you object to my raising issues of racism. It must be terribly upsetting to have to be confronted with the fact that someone besides white people matter on this earth. This, however, is a site for Democrats, and African Americans are the most loyal voting group. Despite that fact, we have few AA members left on DU. One thing is certain, I am not nearly as important as the issue of racism and that you think there is something comparable about petty gossip about an individual compared to a major social issue that affects America and the world at large speaks volumes.

Skinner saw what that Lounge thread was and supported the lock. He doesn't want this site to become a White Supremacist yuck fest anymore than I do. You object to the fact anyone cares. Too bad.

These past couple of days truly have been enlightening. Between that lounge thread, your carrying the controversy into the Men's Group, and your objection to the post linked above, I've learned a great deal about who you are.

sheshe2

(83,137 posts)
143. by the way;
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:13 AM
Mar 2014

it should read you are dense ....or You're dense~

Not and I quote you "man, your dense,,". By the way I am a woman not a man.

BainsBane

(52,999 posts)
148. Because the point is not to post
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:56 AM
Mar 2014

Last edited Wed Mar 12, 2014, 05:34 AM - Edit history (1)

anything of interest but instead engage in personal sniping.

I've seen many excellent threads by Sheshe2. Also the fact is she was quoting Manny. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to the content of discussions rather than their post count or some random judgment about complete strangers?

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
111. Is categorizing men offensive?
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:36 PM
Mar 2014

For example, suppose I were to say: "Some men act like real jerks when they can get away with it. They're rude to restaurant servers, store cashiers, and other people (of both sexes) who are working in similar capacities that bring them into contact with the general public."

I think my statement is true. Is it "hurtful" to men, to adapt your criticism?

I will concede that some true statements may also be hurtful in the sense of hurting some readers' feelings. Some men reading my example statement may be upset because they're uncomfortable when their behavior is criticized. To my mind, though, that's usually not a good reason to refrain from a truthful criticism.

11 Bravo

(23,921 posts)
91. I've said it before, Manny. You could post a fucking meat loaf recipe and someone ...
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 09:41 AM
Mar 2014

would mis-characterize your words and proceed directly into full-on, teeth-gnashing, garment-rending fits of outrage over something that you clearly were neither saying nor even implying.
Just another day in the good old Grievously Dysfunctional forum.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
81. Manny didn't say or imply or even suggest that a woman that has self-confidence is hubristic
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:52 AM
Mar 2014

nor did he say or imply or even suggest that self-confidence in a woman is bad. I hope you were joking.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
132. Please. Spare us.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 07:07 PM
Mar 2014

We know what he was thinking when he wrote it.

If we have to explain it to you, then it proves your hatred.

Regards,

Nobody-in-particular Manny

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
134. Okay,you lost me. What proves my hatred?
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 07:28 PM
Mar 2014

I thought I was defending you against a ridiculous attack by sheshe.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
136. I was being sarcastic, sorry.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 07:30 PM
Mar 2014

I appreciate the defense. This place has gotten nuts.

Regards,

The Real Manny

sheshe2

(83,137 posts)
144. definition!
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:16 AM
Mar 2014

hu·bris [hyoo-bris, hoo-] Show IPA
noun
excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
87. Logic challenged.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 09:28 AM
Mar 2014

Manny gives Coulter as an example of what normal is not.

You say Coulter isn't even human, and then go back to berating Manny for his statement.

You call Coulter not human, Manny refers to her as not normal, and HE is doing something so awful?

WTF?

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
126. Also take note of the subtle
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 06:13 PM
Mar 2014

Slut shaming upthread. Ann Coulter is disgusting. I don't think who she knew "cacarnally" has squat to do with that. " "Carnally"

Good God.

BainsBane

(52,999 posts)
53. The thing about 1 percenters
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:48 AM
Mar 2014

Is they are only 1% of the population, so running into the other 99% isn't difficult.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
76. Spreading into gender issues
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:42 AM
Mar 2014

from dividing Democrats issues - interesting which side he falls on - he could have been a feminist and that would have been better believable for coming from the left and supporting Elizabeth Warren for President. Choosing the male side may be a bad decision.

sheshe2

(83,137 posts)
59. Yes and~
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:10 AM
Mar 2014

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
> > > Mail Message
> > > On Sun Mar 9, 2014, 11:42 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
> > >
> > > He haz a sad
> > > http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4637610
> > >
> > > REASON FOR ALERT
> > >
> > > This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
> > >
> > > ALERTER'S COMMENTS
> > >
> > > This just seems like gratuitous flamebait. Not just this post but the person's entire contribution to this thread. If there were still moderators no doubt the person would be asked to behave themselves or get booted from the thread. It's up to you dear jurors...
> > >
> > > You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 9, 2014, 11:54 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.
> > >
> > > Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > > Explanation: No explanation given
> > > Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > > Explanation: Sorry but not hide worthy.
> > > Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > > Explanation: Nope. Leave it.
> > > Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > > Explanation: I don't see nearly enough cause here, to hide.
> > > Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
> > > Explanation: No explanation given
> > > Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
> > > Explanation: No explanation given
> > >
> > > Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
100. wow, just further proof this thread was nothing but flypaper to get posts hidden
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:19 PM
Mar 2014

Hilarious that the "alerter" describes the thread as if it has any significance -- i.e., how his friend can get laid. This was just low-hanging fruit. Even the alert is in a mocking format.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
72. the put upon victim thing from the left
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:35 AM
Mar 2014

just feeds right into right winger stereotypes too. Just gives them something to jump on.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
108. You've been given the explanation.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:19 PM
Mar 2014

See posts #81 and #87, with both of which I fully concur.

The chorus attacking Manny is apparently demanding an "explanation" for his statement that self-confidence in a woman is a bad thing. The reason there is no explanation that will satisfy his critics is that, back here in the real world, Manny made no such statement. He said that some women are hubristic while most of them are normal. Equating hubris with self-confidence was added by his critics so that they'd have something to be outraged about.

If you believe that no woman anywhere in the world is hubristic, go ahead and make that case. For my part, I believe that women run the gamut from neurotic levels of insecurity, through appropriate self-confidence, and on all the way to hubris and arrogance. Sort of like men do.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
71. That stuck out for me too
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:33 AM
Mar 2014

Very subtle way of saying normal women follow react such that men are most comfortable.

DJ13

(23,671 posts)
4. how do people move from "nice to meet you!" to "um, I'm having trouble with this clip thing"?
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:20 AM
Mar 2014

I've found the $100 bill used as an introduction smooths over the rough spots.

(I'm kidding!)

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
32. The smooth move these days is to pull out a virtual wallet and send across a couple of bitcoins
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:02 AM
Mar 2014

or so I've been told.

It says:

a) I am on the leading edge
b) I value this experience
c) I value your privacy

treestar

(82,383 posts)
78. Treating the women like other people rather than
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:44 AM
Mar 2014

a set of people with exactly the same reactions for whom there must be a formula for getting them to participate in sexual activities. If we just knew that formula, we could be in control and manipulate the opposite sex with it. There are tons of articles on alter net, etc. and every magazine on how to treat women - because you know they are all alike and will react according to a set formula.

MindMover

(5,016 posts)
11. Thankyou Jesus mother nature still does its thang with me ...
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 12:35 AM
Mar 2014

and I suppose that today looking at the tv that I don't have to worry about that later on...

Just don't understand why it is all aimed at an erection when it takes two to tango....

Warpy

(110,744 posts)
34. First you need to negotiate dating unless you want to pay a call girl
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:05 AM
Mar 2014

and a lot of men find themselves doing just that because what was appropriate when they were 20 feels silly as hell when they are over 40. Call girls are a sure thing.

There's an online dating group for seniors if you're 55 plus and not set on finding 18 year old arm candy.

If your body is still hanging together, you can join various organizations from birdwatching to soup kitchens to political campaigns or churches to meet people.

I don't find your question a bit offensive. A lot of people out there are sharing your concern because there doesn't seem to be any graceful way to do what they just did without thinking when they were in their late teens and early 20s.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
41. I don't find it offensive either, why would ANYONE find it offensive?
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:20 AM
Mar 2014

There ARE things I find offensive though. But they are so far removed from a Manny post.

Things like bombs dropping on children are extremely offensive to me.

Women being raped by invading armies.

Torture is extemely offensive to me.

Most offensive of all is if my taxes are being spent on these truly evil things.

And of course, war criminals being allowed to walk free, a double insult to the victims.

Manny's post? If that was all the victims of our wars had to worry about it would be a wonderful world.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
40. Internet dating seems to be the way these days for shtupping, for guys anyway.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:14 AM
Mar 2014

They think it's the new singles bar. The women, well as usual, they are looking for relationships. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

JI7

(89,151 posts)
42. no, there are plenty of women who enjoy meeting a guy and just having sex
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:20 AM
Mar 2014

without wanting any relationship.

and there are many guys who do want a relationship and not just one nighters.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
46. I don't know any woman who just does sex unless she's in the business.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:32 AM
Mar 2014

I'm a woman, have been one for 74 years, went to all girls schools and worked in all women workplaces and I never met one who just wanted sex. Sometimes they settled for sex, but didn't just want it. Sorry. Fail. Otherwise what I do agree with you about is that I worked with and do know a lot of guys who did want relationships. But they were not the guys who are today cruising the internet. They are no different than the guys who used to cruise single bars. Their main and initial intent is to get laid, not to get married. Oh, yeah, I used to be a bartender in one of the more frequented single bars in LA back in the day. I observed a lot.

JI7

(89,151 posts)
50. most of the girls/women i have known have wanted just sex and nothing more
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:38 AM
Mar 2014

at some point in their life.

also even among women who would be interested in a long term relationship they still will go out and find guys just to have sex with.

one doesn't have to be in a relationship to have sex with someone.

JustAnotherGen

(31,631 posts)
152. It's your age
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 05:45 AM
Mar 2014

A party University in the early 1990's was probably very different when you went to school or your circle of women. Because my Gramfeathers (maternal great grandmother) would be 109 if she was alive and thought my friends and I ad it made. They were doing (she and her friends) the same shit in the 1920's and then as she said in one of her numerous letters to - I"ll never forget this -

The moral majority decade happened and we had to have a sexual revolution all over again.

That decade was the 1950's.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
89. I went through most of my 20's without the intention
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 09:34 AM
Mar 2014

of wanting any type of a relationship but still wanted the sex. It was great being able to be picky. I also had my second son this way completely intentionally. I was ready to have another baby but didn't have any interest in a husband or coparent. His father was completely aware of the situation, it was just a lot cheaper & more fun than a sperm bank.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
105. I did and I wasn't in "the business."
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:12 PM
Mar 2014

There have been many times in my life (when I was single) that I just wanted a lay. I didn't care what their names were and I didn't necessarily want to see them again (unless they were exceptionally good). And there were times that THEY wanted to pursue something else and I simply was not interested. I was young and a lusty little wench if I do say so myself. I just didn't want the ball and chain that are inherent in too many relationships. But then again, my motto back then was, "Play a man's game better than a man. It confounds the hell out of them."

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
48. C'mon. I never said that. I said guys who are out looking for shtupping are not looking for
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:36 AM
Mar 2014

relationships. They used to go to single bars, now they cruise the internet. I have too many instances from friends to have decided otherwise. The old fashioned way of meeting partners, whether it be through friends, school, church or workplace is where guys go to look for relationships, or frankly the occasional hardware store. Ask me about that if you dare.

R B Garr

(16,914 posts)
58. I hear you, but what she really said is that men on the internet are liars
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 01:56 AM
Mar 2014

This was confirmed by her friends.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
75. Note whoever wants less is in "control"
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:39 AM
Mar 2014

and this is why that role is assigned to men. And why the role of wanting more is assigned to women.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
64. Since you asked... yes, it is inappropriate for a political forum.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 05:54 AM
Mar 2014

But no, it probably won't get taken down. Just another crap thread that makes a mockery of the rules and DU as a place for political discussion.

ProfessorGAC

(64,184 posts)
65. Your Forgot To Add "In Your Opinion"
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 06:05 AM
Mar 2014

As i don't agree with your interpretation of the rules, it means your post is an opinion not a fact. My opposite opinion is just that as well.
But, i'm stating mine as opinion. You're making a pronouncement as if you run the joint.

Autumn

(44,686 posts)
67. Gee Manny. Lately I read your threads and it's like falling into a kaleidescope
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 07:09 AM
Mar 2014

of groups that are pissed off at you. But before you accept that as too big a compliment just remember, it only takes a sneeze to piss them off. Sneeze is kind of a metaphor for just about anything. .

In_The_Wind

(72,300 posts)
117. I'm actually agreeing with your first statement.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:10 PM
Mar 2014

I have no problem with having a drink but many of my friends cannot.

Javaman

(62,394 posts)
118. Okay...
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:11 PM
Mar 2014

I reread your post, edited my original because I wasn't sure if you were agreeing with a statement or implying something.

Nevermind, I can be very dense at times.

My apologies.

Cheers!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
74. Why do people insist there must be some set of rules to follow that
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:37 AM
Mar 2014

are similar to some type of ceremony?

Just get to know other people and don't have the goal of screwing somebody. Wait until it happens naturally. Just having the goal of getting them into bed is dehumanizing.

MissMillie

(38,416 posts)
80. "get to know"
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:51 AM
Mar 2014

I have yet to meet anyone willing to do that.

All the men I meet go from "nice to meet you" to "so, you like sex, right?"

Nevermind my last name or favorite color....

dehumanizing for sure

redqueen

(115,085 posts)
96. That's sad.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 09:57 AM
Mar 2014

I would tell them yes, I love sex, but only alone, or with people I've known for at least four or five years.

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
97. That's very sad.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 10:01 AM
Mar 2014

Maybe a change of the situations where you meet people is in order. You seem to be meeting only men who are not likely to develop some sort of relationship before moving to sexual activity. Not all men are like that. Truly.

Skittles

(152,918 posts)
140. I never dated a guy I did not know first
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 04:32 AM
Mar 2014

and I knew them pretty well first - sorry, I had to KNOW who I was with

MineralMan

(146,116 posts)
94. Yes, a dumb question, but...
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 09:50 AM
Mar 2014

Tell your friend that if he just wants to "schtup," as you so ungracefully put it, he should skip all of the stages of relationship building, and just ask women, "Hey, you wanna schtup?" Why waste time? Get to the point right away. That will quickly identify the women who just want to "schtup" and avoid all of the rest of the getting to know someone and all of that boring stuff and move right into removing clothing.

Now, if your friend is actually interested in finding someone to have an actual relationship, he might want to consider some other approach. But he can probably find someone to "schtup" without all of that tedious foreplay. Not often, but once in a while, he'll find someone as bored with life as he is, and someone who just wants to "schtup."

Or, of course, he could just hire someone to "schtup" with him. I understand that such an arrangement is possible in most cities.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
95. I thought that said "shutup".
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 09:56 AM
Mar 2014

I was going to say, "they don't".

Back to your question though. Since you asked, I have something that may be relevent to it... in later life after being widowed, three of my ex's came back. (Not all at once, one at a time, thank goodness.) So maybe that's a method, or maybe it's just a coincidence, dunno. None of them worked out the second time, but it was kind of interesting while it lasted anyway.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
99. what is it ?
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 10:12 AM
Mar 2014

I feel stupid...looks like I am the only one who has no idea what the question is. what is shtup?

DUH.....now that I write this, he meant shtoop.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
131. Well... I think that's not a settled issue
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 07:05 PM
Mar 2014

Looks like most references have it as "shtup", e.g.:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shtup

However, the character in Blazing Saddles is Lili von Shtupp.

So I should get half-credit, I think.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
98. I would have to say it's a lot easier now.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 10:07 AM
Mar 2014

Once you've experienced and decided what you don't want and won't put up with, you eliminate right off a lot of the chaff, and are free to just choose to enjoy time with people who make you think, laugh and who you just generally want to be around. Don't stress, be you, have fun ..... life is too short to worry so much. If something happens ...... it happens. Of course that's easy to say, being in an area where everyone knows mostly everyone in all the small towns around us. I imagine it's a bit more scary in the city.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
123. You’re right, “roughly the same” but some differences
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:29 PM
Mar 2014

You ALWAYS have to have the STD conversation.
* Initially, you use a condom or, for cunnilingus, a dental dam.
* At some point, many couples agree to be mutually monogamous. If you’ve made that decision, and each of you reports having gone at least three months since any unprotected sex with anyone else, and each of you trusts the other, then you both get tested for HIV. If you both come back negative, then you don’t need barriers to protect against HIV.
* There are other STD’s, though. Annoyingly, there is no way to test men for HPV, so a woman who gets involved with your friend might still have a reasonable concern that he’s carrying HPV and might infect her.
* As an alternative to the three-months-of-monogamy route, some people might choose to gamble. What do you do if a partner says “I tested negative a year ago and all my sexual encounters since then have included condom use”? The partner might be lying or forgetting, or a condom may have failed. Your friend should think now about what he’ll do in that situation.

Your friend might also want to get tested now, just in case he happens to be carrying something even he doesn’t know about.

As to how you get to the point where all this is an issue, I don’t think things are very much different from what he experienced before his marriage. Usually, two people get together, there may or may not be a kiss at the end of the first date, and as they continue to see each other the physical intimacy progresses. For some people it’s not all that uncommon to have sex on the first date. (My guess is that this is more common among the younger set than among the women in your friend’s age group, but I don’t know.) For other people, sex on the third date would be considered much too fast.

There are no papers to sign. The progression toward physical intimacy still depends partly on conversation but mostly on reading nonverbal signals. Furthermore, the trend toward women’s equality and toward elimination of confining gender roles has made only limited progress in this area. In most instances (and, again, focusing on the women in your friend’s age group), women will still incline to expect the man to make the first move. This is often true even if the woman is, not merely willing to consent to, but actively hoping for, something more intense. If your friend waits for an absolutely unambiguous signal from her, he may be in a situation where he wants to do something, she wants him to do it, but it doesn’t happen. (I’ve been there, as I learned from later debriefings.) Just as in the old days, he’ll sometimes have to risk rejection.

As others have mentioned, the main difference since his premarital days is the internet. It increases the opportunities to meet someone of compatible personality and interests. It may well seem awkward and artificial to someone (like your friend and like me) whose dating habits were formed in pre-internet days, but he should overcome that feeling and at least give it a try.

One thing hasn’t changed: The whole process still presents abundant opportunities for insecurity, self-doubt, frustration, etc. He’ll probably have to push himself, especially at first.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
130. Thank you! Finally an answer to the question I tried to ask!
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 06:59 PM
Mar 2014

Got all sorts of answers to other questions, also sorts of helpful hints on how not to be a horrible person...

Actually, the info's for my own edification, I'm just curious. My friend hasn't asked for my help so I expect he's got it under control.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
159. Sex shop or online
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 10:42 AM
Mar 2014

I got mine at Eve's Garden, a long-established sex shop in midtown Manhattan. If you can't conveniently reach a brick-and-mortar store that carries them, you can order them online. I just searched for "dental dam" on duckduckgo.com. (Screw you, Google, you track me online and cooperate with the NSA, our relationship is over.) The search results included some condom vendors that also sell dental dams, plus Amazon, plus links to articles about how to use them.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
171. You know, I considered that, and then i thought "but Hoover isn't actually a geographic location"
Thu Mar 13, 2014, 04:15 PM
Mar 2014

... I am WAY too literal with my jokes.

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
149. Missionary, with the lights out.
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:56 AM
Mar 2014

Sometimes female superior, but only after agreeing it doesn't mean what you might think.

JustAnotherGen

(31,631 posts)
155. Just be glad you aren't out there
Wed Mar 12, 2014, 07:22 AM
Mar 2014


And no - it's not the least bit complicated. If your friend is putting that much thought into it - he's probably not even leaving the bench!
 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
175. With my wife, the shtuping was easy
Thu Mar 13, 2014, 05:02 PM
Mar 2014

Explaining to her dad why he no longer had to pay for campus housing, that was awkward.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
176. IIRC it is the same as ever. If you are looking to bump uglies hit the bar and catch like minded eye
Thu Mar 13, 2014, 05:38 PM
Mar 2014

If you want a "connection" go do something you love to do and again be aware and open to the possibilities.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
178. Naughty texting is unbelievably effective at setting the stage.
Thu Mar 13, 2014, 05:43 PM
Mar 2014

My fiancee and I undertook our entire mutual seduction via text message and picture trading. By the time we actually managed to meet physically it was smooth sailing -- no awkwardness, because everything had already been discussed and nervousness laid to rest. Five years later we are still happily together.

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