Snowden: Giving his colleagues the "front-page test" was "reporting it"

[ProSense]

This is from December 2013

<...>

His colleagues were often “astonished to learn we are collecting more in the United States on Americans than we are on Russians in Russia,” he said. Many of them were troubled, he said, and several said they did not want to know any more.

“I asked these people, ‘What do you think the public would do if this was on the front page?’ ” he said. He noted that critics have accused him of bypassing internal channels of dissent. “How is that not reporting it? How is that not raising it?” he said.

By last December, Snowden was contacting reporters, although he had not yet passed along any classified information. He continued to give his colleagues the “front-page test,” he said, until April.

Asked about those conversations, NSA spokeswoman Vanee Vines sent a prepared statement to The Post: “After extensive investigation, including interviews with his former NSA supervisors and co-workers, we have not found any evidence to support Mr. Snowden’s contention that he brought these matters to anyone’s attention.”

- more -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/edward-snowden-after-months-of-nsa-revelations-says-his-missions-accomplished/2013/12/23/49fc36de-6c1c-11e3-a523-fe73f0ff6b8d_story.html

He was talking to his colleagues about Russia when he was at the NSA? He asked them about it being on the "front page"? WTF? And he thinks that's "reporting it"?

[ProSense]

1. Kick! n/t

[Excelsyor]

38. Kick your own thread again will ya nt

[ProSense]

2. Another. n/t

[MADem]

80. Why not? It's a valid question. Here's one from me! nt

[Cha]

3. Sorry, I just saw this..

like I said.. shifting through all the snowden-greenwald mountain of bullshit is a big job. Thank you.


"Asked about those conversations, NSA spokeswoman Vanee Vines sent a prepared statement to The Post: “After extensive investigation, including interviews with his former NSA supervisors and co-workers, we have not found any evidence to support Mr. Snowden’s contention that he brought these matters to anyone’s attention.”

Maybe if snowden didn't have such a history of lying.. he'd have more credibility? Wonder if that ever entered his "genius" brain?

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. Nope....

[Cha]

5. I'm sure not, too.. it's all about

snowden and his persecution/god complex and how he can wring more and more sympathy from his trusty believers.

[ProSense]

7. It's

"Maybe if snowden didn't have such a history of lying.. he'd have more credibility? Wonder if that ever entered his "genius" brain?"

...bizarre that he's claiming he was comparing the U.S. Russia to his colleagues. Even more bizarre is the claim he was running around giving them a "front-page test."

Wasn't his identity unknown until he revealed himself?

I mean, between using other people's passwords and these claims, his story is becoming a "mountain of bullshit."

[Cha]

9. snowden seems like he makes up shit

on the fly to suit his latest claim(big bad USA, right.. bad NSA.. they lie.. little snowden never lies. ". After all he has one of the great bs propaganda agents in the world, right?

"The US wants to assassinate me "

"As evidence, Snowden points to a Buzzfeed article published earlier this month, titled “America’s Spies Want Edward Snowden Dead.”

More..
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/196428-snowden-government-officials-want-to-kill-me

If snowden believes his own mouth.. he'll believe anything.

[ProSense]

13. It's delusional. n/t

[MADem]

81. He definitely comes off like the very dead center of his own universe--the only valid soul in town!

According to himself, at any rate!!

He really thinks his poops don't smell, and his pronouncements carry more weight than anyone else's.

And if he believes everything he reads in "Buzzfeed" he's got bigger issues still...

If he thinks the US wants to kill him, he'd best stay in Russia, and lay low. SHHHHHH, Ed, stop doing dull, pointless and repetitive video conferences! Maybe, just maybe, we'll all forget about him...!

[Cha]

85. Very Dead Center of everyone's Universe.

The only valid soul in the Universe.. except for his agent, greenwald, of course.

Oh gawd.. I just had a horrible thought.. snowden still going at it.. broadcasting from Russia when he's in his 60s, 70s, and 80s! never stopping.. unless America gets a rand paul, of course.

[uponit7771]

31. At this point I'm smelling a spook, he's REALLY starting to sound like he's funded

[Jamaal510]

47. I think ES

comes off more as someone who is delusional and ignorant, rather than a liar. It takes deluded thinking to

a. support Ron Paul for president and
b. rail against the U.S. government for supposedly being overreaching, and then use Russia (of all countries) as an example of a champion for basic rights.

He is obviously clueless about not only Russia's history of human rights violations, but also about why there is still a need for surveillance (particularly in America) and about how there are many other countries besides us who have been conducting surveillance for quite some time. It's inconceivable that people like him are just now getting up in arms over something that has gone on here (and elsewhere) for a long time.

[Cha]

48. That too.. but, it ends up being lies just the same.

[BillZBubb]

6. LOL

Like reporting it would have made any difference--other than getting him fired and blocked from talking about it.

This national security state red herring is pathetic. The issue isn't whether or not Snowden reported the crimes to people within the NSA. The issue is the anti-constitutional actions of the NSA. The use of ad hominem attacks against Snowden are disgusting.

[ProSense]

8. Well,

"Like reporting it would have made any difference--other than getting him fired and blocked from talking about it. "

...he shouldn't make bullshit claims.

Snowden recently changed his story because he's still desperate for clemency
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024640825

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. So NEVER question The Snowden! Right I got it!

[Luminous Animal]

33. Funny how the OP conveniently left this part out...

Beginning in October 2012, he said, he brought his misgivings to two superiors in the NSA’s Technology Directorate and two more in the NSA Threat Operations Center’s regional base in Hawaii.

[treestar]

10. yet another rank exaggeration

showing that he believes that he is the law.

[Whisp]

11. In grade school when I didn't know the answer on a test

I used to just repeat the question to fill in space to make it look like I knew the answer, or so I thought. Snowden's little talks sort of remind me of that. No real meat, just repeating the questions so as to get caught that he doesn't know much at all, after all.

Q: If train 54 was going 783 mph in Chicago and the one that left Istanbul was at 15:42 going west at half the speed, how long would it take for Edward Snowden to just make shit up to cover the fact that he is a Russian spy, and not a very good one.

A: If train 54 was going 783 mph in Chicago and the one that left Istanbul was at 15:42 going west at half the speed, it would take Edward Snowden a short time to just make shit up to cover the fact that he is a Russian spy, and not a very good one.

[SidDithers]

12. ROFL...

and Snowden's supporters are holding this up a evidence.



Clowns.

Sid

[msanthrope]

22. And I still don't have an answer to my question...

" What precisely do you think this is evidence of?"

[Luminous Animal]

14. His colleagues learned we collect more in the U.S. on Americans than on Russians in Russia.

His colleagues were often “astonished to learn we are collecting more in the United States on Americans than we are on Russians in Russia,” he said. Many of them were troubled, he said, and several said they did not want to know any more.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. According to HIM! Of course he has no proof of any of that...or anything else for that matter...

But when Snowden says BELIEVE....they do!

[struggle4progress]

15. You may enjoy reading what GAP, as his legal counsel, said two months ago:

... As legal counsel to Snowden as well as the nation's leading whistleblower protection and advocacy organization, the Government Accountability Project (GAP) would like to make its position clear ... By communicating with the press, Snowden used the safest channel available to him to inform the public of wrongdoing. Nonetheless, government officials have been critical of him for not using internal agency channels – the same channels that have repeatedly failed to protect whistleblowers from reprisal in the past, as these same officials know well ...
GAP Statement on Edward Snowden and NSA Domestic Surveillance
by Government Accountability Project on January 03, 2014

So Eddie astonishingly failed to remember, until nine months after he fled the US for China and Russia, that he tried to go through channels ten times before fleeing; and back in January, Snowden's legal counsel was busily explaining to everybody why he didn't bother going through channels; and now the NSA confirms what Snowden's legal counsel said

Amazing intellectual gymnastics are required here, from those who wish to believe Snowden -- something like triple backflips on iceskates through multiple flaming hoops

[hobbit709]

16. Amazing intellectual gymnastics are used by BOTH sides of this here.

[msanthrope]

21. Take Occam's Razor to his claims... then you don't need gymnastics.

[Scuba]

17. “After extensive investigation, including interviews with his former NSA supervisors ..."

“After extensive investigation, including interviews with his former NSA supervisors and co-workers, we have not found any evidence to support Mr. Snowden’s contention that he brought these matters to anyone’s attention.”


Yeah, like those supervisors are going to say, "sure, he reported it to me but I didn't report it as I am legally bound to do".

I really don't trust the NSA to investigate themselves. Do you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. but you DO trust anything that Snowden says.....

I don't just blindly trust HIM! He has proven he is a liar...

[Scuba]

29. I neither trust nor distrust Snowden.

The facts he exposed, however, cause me further distrust in our intelligence services.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. What has he exposed?

I haven't seen ANYTHING but what he SAYS and neither have you....AND what he says has been proven to be wildly false.

You just accept what he is saying at face value...and I don't and those that DON'T are called "idiots" on this very thread.

[Luminous Animal]

34. So the slides and documents that have been published are fake?

[VanillaRhapsody]

35. You mean the slides and documents YOU and I haven't seen?

[Luminous Animal]

36. I've seen quite a few.

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. Link to these "quite a few" please then.....

[Luminous Animal]

42. Go to any article published by the Guardian. Or Bart Gellman's articles for WaPo.

Both are good are good at providing back up documents for their articles.

Greenwald, though, has probably publishes the most.

[Scuba]

39. I've seen a few too. And I've also seen the reaction to the leaks by high ranking ....

... government officials, like, you know, US Senators and the President. If there was no "there" there, don't you think those folks would have just ignored the whole thing?

One particular PP slide I recall addressed the issue of using the illegally obtained information to prosecute people for very ordinary crimes while deceiving the courts and defense about how the information was obtained. This was a common enough practicre that this was part of a routine training program.

Does the fact our government does this not bother you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

40. Please link to these "documents" then....

[Scuba]

43. Here ya go ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/?hpid=z1

[VanillaRhapsody]

44. YOU seriously want to show that ridiculous document in public????

I literally burst into gales of laughter!

This document that looks like Snowden made it himself? There is NOTHING that makes that an official document...and you should be embarrassed to post it!

THAT is all it takes for you to take EVERY word out of Snowdens mouth is literal fact?

Its not even remotely close! But this explains alot about how low your bar is...

[Scuba]

45. Weird. You said you had not seen any of the documents yet now ...

... you're saying documents the Post published are "not even remotely close". Almost makes me think you're trying to blow smoke up my ass.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. exactly...THAT is proof of nothing and THIS is all Snowden has given you as proof. Not even remotely

and you accepted it?

It explains ALOT!

[Scuba]

49. Yes, it explains that you are not to be believed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4646085

You mean the slides and documents YOU and I haven't seen?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4647591

Its not even remotely close!

[randome]

51. Nothing in that slide says that the NSA is spying on citizens.

Context is everything. Until evidence shows to the contrary, the assumption can easily be made that this slide refers to legitimate targets, i.e. non-citizens, which has nothing to do with the Constitutional protections of Americans.

Without even a scintilla of self-reflection, Snowden and Greenwald want to scare us all because that gives them the attention they crave. And too many fall for it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[uriel1972]

18. Have we shot the messenger enough times already or are there still a few parts left?

Sure he may be a dishonest lying ashat, I have no doubts about that, but isn't that a side issue if his documents are real?

[randome]

19. You mean the legal warrants for collection of metadata?

Since most people don't think that's much of an outrage, Snowden's motivations do come next in line for examination.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. that's a big IF....

and BTW when ARE WE going to see them?

[Logical]

20. From December and she kicked her own post twice = Desperate! nt

[ProSense]

23. Kick! n/t

[ProSense]

24. Hey,

this could use a kick: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024642348

LOL!

[Bobbie Jo]

63. Oh Noes!

Who would do THAT?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024411272#post1
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4355234
http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4252037
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023598441#post9

there were tons more, I just lost interest.

[uponit7771]

30. BREAKING: Snowden to release DOCUMENTED proof that he tried to go through proper channels...

...and in other news George Bush is smart, the GOP likes people of color and want everyone to vote.

aka - news in opposite land

[randome]

37. Will it be a Powerpoint slide?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[ProSense]

50. Kick! n/t

[Union Scribe]

56. Good call, kicking is easier than copying and pasting new threads. nt

[ProSense]

58. Oooh, clever, and apparently that needed to be said.

[Union Scribe]

72. Many things don't need to be said.

I can think of a little over 113,000 off the top of my head.

[ProSense]

73. Brilliant!

Are you coming up with these by yourself?

[sheshe2]

52. Kick!

[ProSense]

53. The embellishments

and hyperbole aren't doing him any good.

[sheshe2]

75. Yup.

I was on my way to work and I thought I'd add a kick~ sorry I forgot to rec until now!

Kick!

[Marr]

54. I believe this sort of kicking of threads that sank is against the rules.

Or at the very least, very bad form.

Just fyi.

[ProSense]

55. LOL!

[uponit7771]

57. Disagree, these things should be kept to view very often if not frequent and stuff

[ProSense]

60. Not according to those who would love to make criticizing Snowden a TOS violation.

[Bobbie Jo]

64. !

Kick!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4651498

Right? Who would do that?

[Marr]

66. Well, as long as the rest of the crew punches in, that's different.

But if it's just Prosense endlessly kicking the press releases, it's a bit embarrassing, you know?

[Bobbie Jo]

67. Sheesh

Who would do THAT?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024411272#post1
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4355234
http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4252037
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023598441#post9

there were tons more, I just lost interest.

[Number23]

74. So is this the new whine? That people shouldn't kick their own threads??

Oh God... this place...

[Bobbie Jo]

79. No, not people.

Just THIS person, apparently.

Others who do it (with great frequency even) are just fine.

Buncha junior high ankle biters, IMO....

[MADem]

82. HIDE the thread, then--you don't HAVE to keep looking at it...

OR kicking it by posting to it...for that matter.

There's no rule against kicking a thread, FWIW.

[BlueCaliDem]

83. Thanks for the definitive clarification on that, MADem.

And another KICK for ProSense's thread!

[1awake]

59. Came to see what everyone had to say

Then saw it was just several posts by the same hand full of people patting each other on the back for the most part... with several self kicks. Anyway, here's a kick for you from me.

[ProSense]

61. Yeah,

"Then saw it was just several posts by the same hand full of people patting each other on the back for the most part... with several self kicks. Anyway, here's a kick for you from me."

...we're honored that a member of the kewl crowd joined us if only to announce a condescending "kick."

Drop in any time. Now excuse me while I respond to the other comments with a K&R, you rock and +1

[1awake]

62. I can wait P, i mean how long can counting that few really take?

99% of the kicks were yours so, it should speed time up? And lol... let's not talk about condescending anything oh one who appears to be certified in it. Oh.. and the use of rolling smilies to! Thank's for calling me "Kewl" though!

[ProSense]

65. Hey

"I can wait P, i mean how long can counting that few really take? 99% of the kicks were yours so, it should speed time up?"

...it happens.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024642348

This may not surprise you, but a few people tend to complain about threads being kicked when they don't like the topic. I mean, it's an attempt at deflection.

[1awake]

68. Possibly,

Since this was the first time I have ever pointed out (self) kicks, or complained about them... I'll take your word for it. As far as deflection, there isn't any on this end. There's those interested in the message, and those interested more in the messenger. There's those supporting ideals (nice sig line by the way) and there's those supporting political expediency.

In any case, going back reading what I wrote, it was unnecessary. I apologize for the rudeness and the snark.

[ProSense]

69. Well,

"There's those interested in the message, and those interested more in the messenger."

...thanks for the apology. As for the above, Snowden, like any public figure, is not above criticism. If he makes claims that are questionable, he should be called on those claims. There are those who would prefer that no one criticize Snowden.

[1awake]

70. Criticize Snwoden all you want. He's a big boy who made choices

and can and will answer for them now, over time, or one day in the future. He may be arrested or celebrated, I do not know. That being said, I am very interested in the documents being released, and he is not the only person that has things to answer for.

[ProSense]

71. Thank you. n/t

[cantbeserious]

76. Ever More Character Assination

eom

[idendoit]

77. Wow, a trifecta..thief, liar and traitor.

[sheshe2]

78. Eddie needs to find a story and stick with it.

However he acts like chatty cathy, when you pull the string she says what she was programmed to say.

Kick!

[BlueCaliDem]

84. Snowden is such a Libertarian charlatan. It amazes me that so many on "the Left" are falling for his

b.s. around here. I guess they believe that anyone who sounds even remotely legit and who is 100% against this Administration, deserves their loyalty come hell or high-water and their idols' lies should just be overlooked.