Have pro-Putin progressives forgotten gay rights or Pussy Riot?

[uhnope]

Or are they stuck in obsolete anti-US-so-pro-Russia thinking?
Or does their anger over US actions in Iraq totally cloud their judgment, and they project?
Or does this have something to do with Snowden, like Snowden-in-Russia-so-Russia-good?

[arcane1]

1. pro-Putin progressives?

[iandhr]

2. A small vocal minority on this board.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

12. Name names.

Stop with the passive aggressive nonsense.

[iandhr]

19. Take a look

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024462596

[ForgoTheConsequence]

23. There isn't a single "Pro Putin" post in that thread.

In fact, Putin is mentioned 10 times and every time it's in a negative light.



Again; name names.

[iandhr]

28. Read

rhett o rick

Another whistle-blower hate thread. They are becoming more frequent. Smells like desperation. nm

[ForgoTheConsequence]

30. Hahaha. So you refuse to name names? Typical.

Whatever you're smelling seems to be on your own upper lip.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

37. Snowden isn't Putin.

Try again. I want a PRO PUTIN poster. Don't feed me this trivial passive aggressive nonsense. Show me a PRO PUTIN post.

[LanternWaste]

61. Like pretending to oneself there isn't a small passive-aggressive defense

"trivial passive aggressive nonsense..."

Like pretending to oneself there isn't a small passive-aggressive defense for Putin existing on DU... one has merely to look with a dispassionate eye (which may be a wee bit too tough, I admit)

[Are_grits_groceries]

59. You get called out for naming names. nt

[uhnope]

25. Thanks, that's a relief. nt

[Capt. Obvious]

70. There should soon be a group for them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024651881

[TwilightGardener]

3. Not so much pro-Putin as anti-US. Anyone or any country

that challenges the United States in any capacity makes them cheer. Hence, US military engagement EVIL, Russian takeover of Ukraine BADASS and to be RESPECTED. US human/civil rights INADEQUATE, Russia's/China's/India's...well, crickets. US spying BAD, all other spying by other countries NECESSARY. Edit to add: many aren't really progressives, because otherwise they wouldn't be so inconsistent.

[okaawhatever]

7. Exactly. Post a hundred articles about NSA spying and absolute crickets on the same in Russia. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

42. Uh, we happen to live in the US. The NSA is part of OUR government.

That could be why we pay more attention to that.

But in case you're interested, I don't have much use for spooks from any country.

[okaawhatever]

45. Many of the people who post those articles don't live in America so that's not the issue they're

arguing. I agree we should be concerned with our own government, but many of the articles have to do with spying overseas. Considering every spook agency tries to do that, no one should be surprised that we do.

I personally believe there is a need for spying and secrecy, but I think we need an independent citizens council who answer only to the people to oversee the process. They shouldn't be able to be fired, silenced or intimidated in any way. They should be vetted for security clearance so they can hear all info, and they should make sure American's rights are protected.

[Whisp]

11. I like the pro-putin/snow folks who want to get rid of the NSA

(I've heard that here often enough from too many) and have China and Russia and whoever cyberwar America's asses off without any defense whatsoever. Power grids, water systems, the health care system, banks, yada yada, all vulnerable because the oath has been given to that Libertarian Bush loving Yellow Snow One.

[TwilightGardener]

18. China and Russia would love Americans to disarm ourselves, in terms of

surveillance, cyberwarfare, and military capability. Most cost-effective way to do that is to use US/western mouthpieces to try to drive a wedge between citizens and government--incite mistrust, anger and a call to weaken our capabilities. That's not to say the NSA shouldn't be reined in or have increased oversight, or that the military budget shouldn't be made more sane, but it's always good to be suspicious of WHO BENEFITS THE MOST from such efforts. Some of it is homegrown and principled, some of it...isn't.

[okaawhatever]

46. No kidding. I wish someone would expose the secrets of the other side. Put everything in

perspective. It's like that reporter that just left CBS over their liberal bias. Lolz. She accused Obama of spying on her computer. Silly woman had the Chinese spying on her from a story she co-authored about some big Chinese oligarch or politician. China hacked into every reporter's phone at WaPo. How many times was her Obama allegation in the media? The finding that it was the Chinese?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

33. Bill Bennett is that you?

You sound like the same people who were throwing things at us when we marched to protest the Iraq war.


USA #1, Like it or leave it, Better dead than red!

[Scootaloo]

39. It's astounding how similar some DU'ers are to bushbots circa 2004.

"Pro-Putin", "anti-American," fucking really? Do you still wear a purple heart band-aid?

[Cha]

67. You know they got nothing when they resort to mumbling about "bill bennent". rofl

Last edited Thu Mar 13, 2014, 07:22 AM - Edit history (1)

[Beacool]

72. This.........

In some folks' eyes everybody is better than the US, no matter what kind of despot wannabe they are: Chavez, Maduro, Castro, Ortega, Putin, etc. I'm waiting for them to support the Taliban, al Qaeda and the tubby guy in North Korea.

[cali]

4. You know what I find sick making?

People using gay rights to make a point.

frankly, I don't believe most of the people who do shit like YOUR post, give a damn.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. I don't agree. Of course, you promote the Pope who is an anti gay bigot

so you do not understand what it is like to see these policies and peoples promoted here daily. You think it's cute to say 'I love the bigot, so sue me'. I have noticed that some of the same folks who dig Russia promote the Pope, they wrap the bigotry up in lingo about 'economic justice' in order to promote anti gay, anti choice men of great wealth and powerful position. It is what it is, and none of it is pretty.

[cali]

21. and YOU twist what I do. I don't "promote" the Pople

and I for sure call out the Pope and the Church on these issues. And you know that. OH, and I never promote Russia or Putin.

Oh, and don't try and mind read and tell me what I think or feel. You suck at it.
'
What I have said- and do try and follow this- is that I believe the Pope does more good than ill on the world stage. but I've never seen much to indicate that you care much about poor people or economic issues- You sure don't give enough of a fuck to recognize that the Pope speaking out so consistently and strongly on these issues is a force for good.

[polly7]

27. Because ....... it's only possible to actually 'really' care about one issue.

(Heavy sarcasm here, cali.)

[Scootaloo]

40. For right-lighters, gay people are just ammunition against other groups

[SidDithers]

5. All of the above...nt

Sid

[Bluenorthwest]

6. they have not forgotten, they just don't care about

LGBT people or artistic freedoms. They simply see LGBT as inferior beings, fodder for their agenda.

[polly7]

16. Bull!

Russia has 120 million plus people of all genders, sexual orientation, race and class. Putin doesn't represent all of those people any more than Bush did you when he was trotting around the globe with his atrocities. I can desperately hope for equal rights for all and not agree with Russia's ugly homophobic laws, yet still realize 'Russia' and its people are no more 'evil' as a whole. than many other nations ... and broad-brushing them all to carry out an agenda of hate long played by the west, is pathetic.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. I was not talking about Russians. Jesus.

Between the Pope and Russia many on DU have shown that our rights are nothing but fodder to in their eyes. No one said Russia is evil, all I said is their law are horribly anti gay. For saying that, you attack me. That's what I mean when I say DUers do not stand with LGBT people, DUers stand up to defend those who attack LGBT people.
You keep assuming you have permission to put words in my mouth. That indicates that you see me as less than your equal. You have no such permission. I have not used, nor would I use, the word 'evil' about the Russian people. You don't even know how idiotic that is, you see me a 'gay American' and don't even have a clue. Not a fucking clue. Pathetic.

[polly7]

63. Always the victim.

Pathetic.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Well, give it a test. Give Snowden his passport back and quit pursuing him.

And, gauge the effect on "pro-Putin" progressives.

How does not wanting our country interfering in Ukraine become "pro-Putin Progressive"?

[Bluenorthwest]

14. I don't want us interfereing, I also don't think Russia should meddle in it.

I also notice when folks defend a frothingly anti gay political figure and State unequivocally while pretending they are simply opposing US involvement. It was the same bullshit around the Olympics, when all DU adored Putin, except for the LGBT people who know better because our own people are being treated harshly. This is a small, connected world. We know what is happening, no matter how the spin is laid on.
Some folks just don't mind seeing anti gay aggression. It's that simple. It is dismissed by straights because they sort of agree with it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. What has that to do with Ukraine? Or, Snowden?

What does homosexuality have to do with either? I see Putin as the same sort of politician we have here. He plays to the base instincts of nationalism and "popular culture". In Russia, and probably in Ukraine, being anti-gay is "popular culture". You don't have to go far to see politicians playing the same "popular culture" card here when it comes to gays. Nor, do we have to look any further than the White House to see "being tough" on our "enemies" being used to serve the MIC and Neo-cons/Neo-Libs.

[Bluenorthwest]

50. Wow. Just stunning.

Whatever. Good to see how you really think. Wow.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Ask, and you will recieve.

[polly7]

29. Some people 'adored' the Olympics.

Including me. Athletes, straight and gay got a chance to play out their dreams on a world stage, experience a different culture and share their own. The Russian people deserve the same pride and benefits from staging them as any other country (and name me ONE that hasn't had it's share of human rights issues). Also, exposing Russia's homophobic laws to the world in such a huge way as was done prior to and during these Olympics, imo, does a lot more to help gay people in Russia than hiding it.

You just love to label people, though. Calling someone a bigot is so easy when you know absolutely nothing about them.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. I called no one a bigot, but truth is not what you are doing here.

The LGBT Russian people deserve more than what the straight world is giving them.
I'm never going to support that anti gay, hate speaking government until they stop oppressing members of my community. You support them, that's your right. It is not the first time straights have excused great injustice out of personal convenience or political need. But you have no right to put words in my mouth. I am your equal. Deal with it, you do not get to speak for me.
I boycotted the big anti gay skate party and Branding Expo called the Olympics. It's a marketing orgy, I do not care for that anyway, add the anti gay atmosphere and why would I pay attention? Coke and McDonald's and Homophobia? Not very appealing to me.

[polly7]

49. You're an expert on twisting history.

No, you weren't actually courageous enough to say the actual word, but you sure did imply it time after time! Just as you have here.

I don't care what you boycotted.

You have NO interest in hearing the reasoning of anyone on any issue you feel is yours alone to use - as long as you can claim we don't give a fuck, that's all that seems to matter to you.

I DO NOT support the Russian gov't horrific anti-gay laws. I DO support gay rights everywhere, so don't twist my words again. It's beyond intellectually dishonest, and I'm tired of it.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. you are not reasoning, you are claiming I said what I did not say.

It's disgusting and it shows the reality of what is in your heart. You claim I said 'evil' you claim I said 'bigot' when called out on it you have the audacity to claim I implied it.
Support is an action, not a bunch of rhetoric delivered between false accusations.
What have you done to oppose those laws in Russia? Other than attack critics of those laws? Anything?
Feel free to share.

[polly7]

62. I haven't attacked ANYONE for criticizing those horrible laws.

Again - you lie.

I've talked to many people in real life about how bad they are, none of us were aware of how bad things had gotten ... I spread it around on various other message boards - apart from that, what can I do?? The Olympics highlighted Russian lawmakers' bigotry and evil more than anything you or I've done, but what have you done for Russia's gay people? Feel free to share.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

10. Who are these Pro-Putin progressives?

Name names.

[PhilSays]

13. So many good people have fallen prey to Anti-Western propaganda

just because we've had a few bad eggs, like court-appointed Bush and Dickhole Cheney in the White House.

This is a better world because of American might, even if we have fucked up a time or two.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

24. A few bad eggs?

Is this a joke?

[CJCRANE]

15. You could do a poll. That would be fun.

1) Pro-Putin / Pro-Snowden
2) Anti-Putin / Pro-Snowden
3) Pro-Putin / Anti-Snowden
4) Anti-Putin / Anti-Snowden
5) Non-binary thinker

[arcane1]

66. I don't think option 5 is very welcome around here these days

Especially with this topic!

[BeyondGeography]

17. In case they have...

In December of last year, the leader of this neighboring authoritarian regime, Vladimir Putin, offered a deal. From Russia’s hard currency reserves accumulated by the sale of hydrocarbons he was willing to offer a loan of $15 billion, and lower the price of natural gas from Russia. Putin had a couple of little preoccupations, however.

The first was the gay conspiracy. This was a subject that had dominated Russian propaganda throughout last year but which had been essentially absent from Ukraine. Perhaps Ukraine could join in? Yes indeed: the Ukrainian prime minister began to explain to his population that Ukraine could not have closer cooperation with Europe, since the EU was interested chiefly in gay marriage?

Putin’s second preoccupation was something called Eurasia. This was and is Putin’s proposed rival to the European Union, a club of dictatorships meant to include Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. Again, perhaps Ukraine could join? Yanukovych hesitated here, seeing the trap—the subordination of Ukraine of course meant his own subordination—but he did allow himself to be jollied along toward the necessary policies. He began to act like a proper dictator. He began to kill his own people in significant numbers. He bloodied his hands, making him an unlikely future partner for the European Union.

Enter a lonely, courageous Ukrainian rebel, a leading investigative journalist. A dark-skinned journalist who gets racially profiled by the regime. And a Muslim. And an Afghan. This is Mustafa Nayem, the man who started the revolution. Using social media, he called students and other young people to rally on the main square of Kiev in support of a European choice for Ukraine. That square is called the Maidan, which by the way is an Arab word. During the first few days of the protests the students called it the Euromaidan. Russian propaganda called it, predictably enough, the Gayeuromaidan...

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/mar/01/ukraine-haze-propaganda/

[Cha]

68. Interesting.. bookmarking. Thank you, BG

In December of last year, the leader of this neighboring authoritarian regime, Vladimir Putin, offered a deal. From Russia’s hard currency reserves accumulated by the sale of hydrocarbons he was willing to offer a loan of $15 billion, and lower the price of natural gas from Russia. Putin had a couple of little preoccupations, however.

The first was the gay conspiracy. This was a subject that had dominated Russian propaganda throughout last year but which had been essentially absent from Ukraine. Perhaps Ukraine could join in? Yes indeed: the Ukrainian prime minister began to explain to his population that Ukraine could not have closer cooperation with Europe, since the EU was interested chiefly in gay marriage?

Putin’s second preoccupation was something called Eurasia. This was and is Putin’s proposed rival to the European Union, a club of dictatorships meant to include Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. Again, perhaps Ukraine could join? Yanukovych hesitated here, seeing the trap—the subordination of Ukraine of course meant his own subordination—but he did allow himself to be jollied along toward the necessary policies. He began to act like a proper dictator. He began to kill his own people in significant numbers. He bloodied his hands, making him an unlikely future partner for the European Union.

Enter a lonely, courageous Ukrainian rebel, a leading investigative journalist. A dark-skinned journalist who gets racially profiled by the regime. And a Muslim. And an Afghan. This is Mustafa Nayem, the man who started the revolution. Using social media, he called students and other young people to rally on the main square of Kiev in support of a European choice for Ukraine. That square is called the Maidan, which by the way is an Arab word. During the first few days of the protests the students called it the Euromaidan. Russian propaganda called it, predictably enough, the Gayeuromaidan...

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/mar/01/ukraine-haze-propaganda/

[Kelvin Mace]

20. I don't see many "Pro-Putin" types on this board

That said:

1) The Ukraine/Russia situation is not the black & white scenario a lot of people claim.

2) The U.S. has ZERO moral authority to comment on Russia's actions. Things would be very different if the current administration had repudiated the Bush Doctrine and prosecuted Bush's gang for war crimes.

3) The EU will do precisely nothing of consequence over Russia's actions, since to do so would cost them dearly in economic terms (re: 30% of oil and gas comes from Russia).

4) Realistically there is not anything that can be done about Russia, unless people are prepared for either a worldwide global meltdown or a shooting war between nuclear powers.

5) As long as we keep applying 19th century imperialist policies and diplomacy to our current international problems, this will keep happening.

[bemildred]

31. +1. nt

[JI7]

22. they are not progressives, just like teabagging shits who claim to be fiscally responsible

and other shit. the teabagging idiots like that fake plumber who was going to buy a business and was making 200 thousand a year.

people rant and rave about many things. usually these are attention seeking assholes .

[LittleBlue]

32. Stop using gays as an excuse to support coups

It's so unseemly to use gay rights and gays in general as pawns in a geopolitical conflict between the west and Russia. Like supporting gay rights means I have to support an overthrow of the Ukrainian government.

Nah not playing that game. You can be against western schemes in Ukraine while being for gay rights.

[CJCRANE]

44. Plus people who use that tactic are also de facto

condemning Edward Snowden, as he's cooperating with the Putin regime.

[MNBrewer]

54. In what way is Snowden "cooperating with the Putin regime"?

[tkmorris]

34. There are no pro-Putin progressives here

You made that up.

[KamaAina]

36. Or Bush* looking into his soul?

I'm not really convinced he has one.

[G_j]

38. no such animal nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

41. Aren't you the poster who just accused someone else of being paid to post by Putin?

Why yes you are: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024650158

So, in the interest of fair play, are you cashing checks from the Right Sector?

[uhnope]

43. I take it your "Comrade" is literal

[Oilwellian]

47. Someone has an obvious agenda n/t

[cthulu2016]

52. Unless you can name at least one Pro-Putin progressive this is nonsense

[uhnope]

58. see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014752334

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024647170

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024651522

[cthulu2016]

74. Thanks

[ProSense]

55. "Vladimir Putin, the World's Last True Statesman"

No blue linky, but that's hilarious

[uhnope]

60. blue linky here. Hilarious but bizarre and sad

http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/vladimir-putin-worlds-last-true-statesman/

[William769]

71. Do you know he has been nominated for the Nobel peace prize?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vladimir-putin-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize/

If they ever wanted to make that prize to mean absolutely nothing, heres their chance.

[grahamhgreen]

56. No one is pro putin. We're anti-imperialism/war-profiteering/regime change/big oil. It's all about

the gas.

[uhnope]

65. what about Russian imperialism and war profiteering?

[whatchamacallit]

64. Lol! Just like the legion "pro Paul progressives" that inspired a thousand bullshit OPs on DU

[William769]

69. They haven't forgotten, they just don't care! nt

[riderinthestorm]

73. Question reminds me of "When did you stop beating your wife?" nt