My 20 something, tiny, blue eyed, blonde daughter taught in the South Bronx

[HockeyMom]

She took the subway back and forth from Queens every day, and walked alone to the elementary school. The neighborhood people got to know her, by name, Miss Rachael, they called her. "Good Morning, Miss Rachael". They would ask her how "their" kids were doing in school. When the school had Meet the Teacher Night, she wouldn't leave until at 8 PM to catch the subway back home. She told me a couple of times one of the parents would invite her to dinner at their home. My daughter did not fear for her life as a young, white woman, or feel the need to carry a gun.

I myself as a young woman went everywhere around NYC, from the South Bronx, to Harlem, to Bed Sty. I NEVER experienced any trouble either. I had friends, black, white, brown, and red, from all over. We all went to our different neighborhoods, taking the subway from borough to borough, all hours of the day and night. Sometimes together. Sometimes I was all alone. I not only never carried a weapon. It would never have occurred to me to do so.

So tell me WHY if me and my white daughter could go into these minority neighborhoods without being threatened, black people cannot go into white neighborhoods without being threatened? Something is very, very wrong here. It has to work BOTH WAYS.

I know a lot of people here on DU don't agree with me on the gun issues, but tell me WHO has the problem here? It seems to be MY RACE that is more at fault from what I, and my daughter, have experienced living our lives in NYC.

Let me this say this as an educator, and my daughter would certainly agree, CHILDREN are our most precious resource. They are INNOCENTS. ALL of them; black, white, brown, yellow, and red. I don't care WHAT their race is. They are beautiful.

[underpants]

1. The difference? you aren't self quarantined in a vehicle

listening to god knows what on the radio.

You and your daughter got out and interacted with people learning about them and yourself.

Great story and great testimony.

[thesquanderer]

4. Yes, it's the fault of automobiles!

Okay, not really, but you make a good point, there is something to be said for NYC's public transit system, unlike most of the country which is so car-oriented. The subways "force" people to be comfortable around "different" people, rather than isolating them in cars where they are likely to be subject to hate-mongers on radio.

[GoneOffShore]

14. You have made a very good point. It is indeed the fault of automobiles.

Public transport, public schools, public parks, community hospitals are "great, good places" where people of different ages, races, beliefs and economic status are obliged to interact on an essentially equal footing.

This gives rise to understanding and the demise of "bunkerism" (a word that I just made up, I hope). Which is the "Archie Bunker" mentality living in gated communities and almost unlimited access to firearms. That mentality permeates many groups, not just white people in Florida. I've found it in north Philadelphia and east Baltimore as well which shows that you don't have to live in a gated community to feel isolated and besieged.

[surrealAmerican]

15. Add in public libraries and community centers ...

... and you've got a town where people can see one another as people, not obstacles or competitors or enemies.


It's easy to dehumanize whole groups of people you have no contact with.

[GoneOffShore]

22. Two more "Great, good places". n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. You haven't been to my public library.

There is a woman that works there that hated the fact that Walmart has an aisle for Hispanic food. That made her mad. She hates Hispanics. I know a black lady who used to work at the library and she quit because she had too many arguments with the white woman who is a bigot.

We are in TEXAS.

We used to be owned by France, Spain, and Mexico. And we were a Republic for ten years.

And this woman is supposed to be helping people learn???

[mrmpa]

29. She would hate our library......

we have a large population of recent immigrants and HB-1 visa holders from India. Our libarians have put together a collection of probably 500-600 Hindi films. The children join in all the activities at the library. Our library embraced our new residents!

[NYC_SKP]

2. K/R and 1/7 of living Americans are K-12 students.

So yeah, students are the future.

[AlbertCat]

3. The minorities (and you)...

.... are not afraid of BECOMING minorities.

[jwirr]

17. Bingo. One of the issues that is causing most of the problems we are facing is the "poor" white

male population that is afraid of the new reality.

[MrScorpio]

25. Correct answer. nt

[xtraxritical]

27. I resent the implication of many of these posts

that imply/take for granted that if you're white you're a racist.

[noamnety]

33. I'm not sure that's relevant.

Last edited Sun Mar 25, 2012, 11:25 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm weighing the fact that black people are being murdered in cold blood for walking while black - and then being blamed because they should have known better than to scare white people by deliberately dressing "too black" in public. And the murderers are released, which is entirely because they are white and the victims are black ...

vs. weighing that some white people's feelings are gonna get hurt if we point out the reasons for that.

And I find the hurt feelings of white people to be inconsequential in this. We're talking about life and death here, so dust off your hurt feelings and allow people to openly discuss the real issues. Sometimes people will talk about it without including the disclaimer "this doesn't apply to all white people" in every sentence. Get over it, allow people to talk about racism, oppression, and the right to basic survival for people who are underprivileged due to bigotry, without having to take into consideration in every post whether this will inadvertently hurt the feelings of people with privilege.

[TNLib]

38. Wow I love this response.

nt

[HockeyMom]

7. Thank you

I was going to defend myself, but my OT was not really about guns. It was more about people and getting along with each other.

[handmade34]

8. Tim Wise's essay...

"White Denial and the Unacceptable Burden of Blackness in America"

"...we are a society in which research has shown quite conclusively that local newscasts overrepresent blacks as criminals, relative to their actual share of total crime, and overrepresent whites as victims, relative to our share of victimization.

A society in which other studies have shown that these racially-skewed newscasts have a direct relationship to widespread negative perceptions of black people. Indeed, a substantial percentage of anti-black racial hostility can be directly traced to media imagery, even after all other factors are considered.

A society in which the disproportionate incarceration of black males — especially for non-violent drug offenses, which they are no more likely (and often even less likely) than whites to commit — feeds the perception that they are so treated because they are dangerous and must be kept at bay.

A society in which criminality is so associated with blackness that whites literally and almost instantly connect the two things in survey after survey, and study after study, even though we are roughly 5 times as likely to be criminally victimized by another white person as by a black person..."

http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/blog/trayvon-martin-white-denial-and-the-unacceptable-burden-of-blackness-in-america

[Number23]

10. Tim Wise is the MAN. I never cease to be amazed by him

Fantastic essay. Thank you for posting.

[TahitiNut]

40. Tim Wise is one of the most appropriately-named people I've ever read.

He's stunningly on-target in deconstructing the perversions and evils of racism today.

[handmade34]

42. ...

he was great on MHP this morning!!

[TahitiNut]

43. #nerdland

Yes, he sure was. That was yet another terrific segment on MHP. Chris Hayes still has the edge on insightful, intelligent, pithy, well-nuanced, and relevant shows, but MHP has a great "bench" with her contacts in academia.

(And she's hotter!)

[HockeyMom]

9. R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

As Aretha said a very long time ago. I guess that is what I am trying to say. You will get no respect, until you GIVE respect.

[handmade34]

13. I believe it is about

exposure and/or ability to empathize... too many people are locked into their own small world/box/perception and really can't comprehend another way... also our problems are the result of insecurity and fear

we must open ourselves and others to the world of compassion and cooperation... no easy task

[pasto76]

11. because most of us live gutless, cowardly lives. lets get down to it.

my neighbors are both good men and women. However, they have never known any kind of violence. The atrocities and tragedies that occur in this world are not known to them. They are simply modern Americans.

I participated in a recuriting event a few years ago. On the way there, the NCOIC of the detail told us, "nothing is more manly than going to war." He was offering that as a recruiting point. That people look up to us, and to allow that admiration to grow in an individual and convince them that they also wanted to be just like us. The other side of that razor is an entirely different discussion.

But over the years Ive thought, he may have had a point. I am a veteran of this Iraq war. I went there, did that and have volumes of stories. But Im nothing special and if I could look back to my DU posts from 2004, I know I would see myself saying that - I just did my job. Im a dad, a husband, a son, a brother. Just like most people.

While I was squad leader back in 2005-2007, I thought I was doing a decent job. I was trying. Trying to do what I had been taught by the good NCOs I'd had before me. I wouldnt call it doubt, but the self critique is the most critical. Until I started being told by my squad that I was the best in the company. I was the most fair, the best trainer, the best leader.

Likewise, a few years ago colleagues and coworkers started telling me things like, "well you're a veteran, you are the toughest guy here". Really, I still think. Im not all that tough. But who can argue with the perception of another person.

The point? every white male out there wants to be a badass. In some way. In some manner. Sometimes I think we are on the leading edge of a societal mental illness, in that so many people seem to act on these fantasies! I mean jesus look at that show Doomsday Bunkers on Discovery now. Ive never seen a bigger group of gutless white meat talking about how they would "handle" this situation or that. Pleeeeese.

On NPR yesterday I heard about two other stand your ground law cases in FLA. One guy alleges a woman and a 14 year old boy were trying to steal his wave runner. So he shot the boy with a shotgun and killed him.
The other case was a guy chasing a burglar a full block, catching him and stabbing him to death! What the fuck!?!?!

would I ever kill someone for stealing a THING? hell no. S'why I have insurance.

This mentality is insane! and those cartoons sum up my take on this nonsense to-the-letter. People like Zimmerman are dangerous. This army sergeant would have little problems knee capping them with a lil ole .22 to keep them holed up in the house, where they can not harm my kids!
At least in Colorado you have to be inside your house to murder somebody

[TahitiNut]

41. Well, we both know cowards can be dangerous...

... and a coward with a gun is an immediate threat. Their life expectancy wasn't much in Nam ... and the VC had little to do with it.

[Zax2me]

12. Beautiful story, hopefully repeated, though not always true.

There are places and neighborhoods where being white isn't a pristine walk in the park as your experience might suggest.
It's just not the same everywhere.
Hopefully.
One day.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

16. Ahhh, the South Bronx

My white folks gutted a 4-story brownstone on Alexander Avenue back in the 70's and lived there for 10 years. Their neighbors were Catholic nuns across the street, a couple of Irish families, and mostly black or Puerto Rican families. My dad did get mugged once in the projects on Brook Avenue and their car antenna did get snapped off, but all in all, they loved the experience. People sit out on their stoops or stand on the sidewalks and INTERACT. There was no need for or tolerance of guns.

[DesertFlower]

18. i'm a former new yorker.

i understand what you're saying. now i'm in phoenix. i rarely see black people.

that being said the white people here wear hoodies. i was thinking about getting one for myself for the cold rainy days.

[dsharp88]

19. Unfortunately, the answer to your question is because you don't live down here in the South...

where racism keeps the red states red with the fire of hatred.

[Vincardog]

20. There are two wolfs in each of us, a good one and a bad one. They are both out to consume our

life's energy.

[we can do it]

21. Sounds a lot like my mom taking the bus to work every day.

Everyone loved her. She treated all with respect and compassion and received the same.

[RoccoR5955]

23. I lived on the border of Canarsie, East New York, and Brownsville,

and never was threatened. That was back in the 60s and 70s. I also had friends of many races, and beliefs. When I was in my teens, I sought out people who were from different cultures, to be friends, and learn their cultures. It has long been my belief that learning about, and understanding different cultures, religions, and such can only help us all understand each other in the long run.
I remember times in Chinatown, when I would go to Canal street to get electronics parts for little projects for cheap, that I would go to little Chinese eateries. You know the little holes in the ground, where you have to walk downstairs. Though some people would look at me funny, it was helpful to know what others would eat. The same holds true when I would go to the Buddhist temple on Mott St., where I would go to sit and meditate, after walking around Chinatown for literally hours.

I would ride the subway to all corners of the City back then, until I moved "upstate" in 1980.

I understand your point and agree.

The only thing that I can think explains it, it the way we walk in streets of NYC, that some people find a problem. When you walk through a "bad" area, as if you have an intent, with your head pointing in the direction you are moving, and make little or no interaction with others on the street that you do not know, you appear to belong there, ESPECIALLY in NYC.

I think that things in NYC are a lot better than they were, in most areas. Many younger people want to learn about different cultures, and want to get along with people from these cultures. Perhaps the rest of the planet should take a lesson from this, and that only by peaceful understanding of each other, can there be any lasting peace.

[unkachuck]

24. "It has to work BOTH WAYS."

....not always, haven't you heard of White Exceptionalism?

[MellowDem]

28. No "race" has "the problem"...

it's more of a human issue. While your daughter ran into no trouble, quite a few white people have run into trouble in black neighborhoods, or they have heard stories from those that have, or they most certainly have seen nightly news reports/crime shows that all tend to effect how they perceive the world and pre-judge those that live in it. And the statistics don't help either. I go to a college that e-mails reports of crime that happen on campus. The campus is in an urban environment. I've gotten around 20 e-mails so far this year about muggings of students around the campus, and in every single case, the suspects were described as young black males. Gotta wonder how that effects people's perceptions when they're walking to their cars late at night.

I have gotten some trouble for being white in a black neighborhood, but it was few and far between. I have had friends get mugged in a black neighborhood. Now, this is the point where some people will take one of two different approaches to it. One is to overreact to these sorts of things and become very fearful and paranoid and quickly prejudge regardless of context. The other is to understand the context of the situation and learn from it and move on. It's very human for people to categorize danger, and doing it based on not just skin color, but age, dress style, location, time of day, etc. is second nature to everyone, whatever race (or sex) they are.

When I'm walking down the street at night, and some woman is walking alone towards me, I understand that she will likely be apprehensive of me, given the context of the situation.

Of course, this kind of pre-judging comes at a cost, that being that people can indeed be wrong when they pre-judge. Depending on the situation, and the amount of prejudice used without any sort of context, the cost can be very high indeed, as was the case in Florida. And of course, there is a larger societal cost of prejudice, as history bears out as well.

The issue with categorization and prejudice becomes acute when logic is thrown out the window in favor of fear and paranoia. Obviously, experiencing threatening situations directly can make a person throw logic out the window, and this happens. Many times, though, societal percptions aren't shaped by personal experiences but rather by larger societal narratives (provided by media) that in some ways are much worse than personal experience. I have gotten in trouble for being white in a black neighborhood. Once. I've also walked through black neighborhoods many times with no trouble, and even friendly hellos and smiles. I have other experiences to counter that one. Other people who have little to no experience with other communities at all can only rely on what they see in the news. And what they see is usually awfully one sided.

Even worse are those politically inclined to an inherently more fearful and paranoid ideology, one that thrives on it actually, and has radio shows that spout it every day. That makes people draw clear distinctions much quicker and much more radically without context. It's an easy, even attractive mindset, because it allows for quick, clear answers to most situations, even if it means little or no accuracy in how a situation is assessed.

[noiretextatique]

39. sorry, but killing black people was pretty much legal for a long time in this country

and unlike black people who kill white people, the crime of killing black people was mostly unpunished, until recently. and still a pretty safe bet, as we see with this zimmerman asshole. white culprits can bank on acquittal. there is no equivalence, regardless of OJ.

[MellowDem]

44. I wasn't drawing an equivalence...

just explaining the underlying issue of why people prejudge and make decisions based on prejudice.

[noiretextatique]

45. ok...sorry for prejudging you

however, fear is still a choice. i can understand why people make that choice, but it is a choice. people tend to seek out information that confirms what they already believe, rather than confronting their own prejudices. and after many years of racist indoctrination, it is difficult to perceive what is actually true. zimmerman clearly believed that all black males posed a threat, and unfortunately for Trayvon Miller, zimmerman acted on that perception, without any regard for who Trayvon Miller really was...a kid walking home from the store.

[MellowDem]

46. It can be a choice...

and it doesn't help when you have political ideologies that promote fear and paranoia as part of their worldview. It makes people much more likely to be fearful and perceive others as potential threats. The whole obsession that many conservatives have with being able to carry guns anywhere, anytime reflects this mindset of fear.

Obviously, if a person is raised to fear and hate black people, how much "choice" they have will be a little more up for grabs I suppose, which is sad in its own way. And society creates perceptions of others in ways individuals cannot control. But if you can at least educate people, you'll give them a chance to make the right choice and confront their prejudices.

There's a reason FDR said the greatest thing we have to fear is fear itself. It can lead to a lot of human misery. And really, living in fear is no way to live. I feel sorry for people, in a way, that have that sort of worldview.

[noiretextatique]

47. you are right...it doesn't help when irrational fears are fed by a constant barrage of propaganda

however, people do have the choice to listen to something else; they have the free will to grow beyond what they are taught and fed constantly. there are plenty of people who chose to change during the civil rights movement....and before it and after it. and there are others who choose not to evolve, and i agree with you: there are forces in society that fuel fear and hatred. hell...i could be a radical black muslim separatist if i chose that path. but i did not. i chose to let go of fear and hatred and judge each person not on the basis of skin color, but on the content of his/her character. a big part of the problem is we, americans, cannot confront the obvious: we have a horribly racist past, which continues to color the present. so it is understandable that some people still harbor racist feelings...totally understandable. but, we, as a people, prefer to pretend that racism is a thing of the past, or a figment of the imagination of people of color, or a thing that exists only in certain places. obama's presidency has really brought the peculiar american problem of racism to the forefront. unfortunately, Trayvon Martin is yet another victim of this thing we really don't want to face and own...and put an end to. racism is an illness that has affected us all, and until we accept that, we will continue to have people like zimmerman and others who believe having non-white skin = a license to interrogate, stalk and murder. i have no empathy for people who choose to live and breathe hatred and fear.

[FLSurfer]

30. I guess it must just be Florida.

That has racial violence.
Must be the humidity.

[noiretextatique]

37. nope..it is not just florida. NYPD has an ugly history

as does LAPD. it is not just florida, and it is not just the south.

[Honeycombe8]

31. You're making generalizations not based on facts.

Last edited Sun Mar 25, 2012, 09:32 AM - Edit history (1)

I appreciate that you and your daughter have walked in different neighborhoods safely, without guns. There are minorities here in my neighborhood in Dallas...they live, work, and go to school here in complete safety, even though there are many gun owners around.

What happened to Trayvon Martin was one incident caused by one weird guy with a problem. I don't even think it was necessarily a racial thing, although it might have been. I've heard bigoted white people say the word "black" many times, and that's not the tone used by Zimmerman, when he reported in the 911 call that Martin was a "black male" and described his clothing. He said he was a black male after the policeman specifically asked the race of the guy, for purposes of identifying him when they located him.

Let's not blame ALL white people for the actions of one, and let's not group ALL black teens into one group because one has burglarized you in the past.

I have had incidents of attempted break-ins before. Both were by black males. I haven't extrapolated those incidents into blaming ALL black males for those incidents. My sister's house was robbed of what little she had once, by a black male. I don't think I've blamed all black males for that, either. Her neighborhood had gradually become more black than white over the years. Does it mean she was no longer welcome in her neighborhood? Does it mean she was targeted because she was white? After all, she was poor and had little to take. Or was it just because some bad guy broke in and took her stuff?

Generalizing and blaming entire groups of people for the actions of a few is the essence of bigotry. It's wrong, regardless of which race does it, for whatever reason. Blacks live and work among whites freely and happily across America. Don't blame millions of others for the actions of one.

Besides, let's not forget that Zimmerman was latino.

[noiretextatique]

36. what happened to Trayvon Martin is a consistent, ugly patttern

not just one incident by one crazy guy, but a pattern of racist violence perpetuated against black people, and black men in particular, since this country's inception.

[40lbsHammer]

32. Your making general assumptions

based on your limited experience.
I would go so far as to say that a black person in a majority white area is less likely to be a victim of crime than a white person in a majority non-white area. But this is going by my experience, I don't know if any statistics are kept on this kind of situation.

[noiretextatique]

35. not really

i am a black person who lives in a majority white area...an area that is perceived to be wealthy. my car has been broken into several times, and there have been a number of strong-arm robberies in this area. your information is false, and based on your limited experience. if you are known in a neighborhood that decreases your risk of harm quite a lot. and race does not matter.

[noiretextatique]

34. i live in oakland, ca

a multi-racial community that is not without its problems (oscar grant) but people do co-exist here in a way they do not in other places i've lived. when you lock yourself away in gated communities, you really don't have the opportunity to get to know different types of people. your daughter is lucky to have a mother like you