CDC: Number of teens hooked on e-cigs might be greatly underestimated because many teens don't know

[pnwmom]

that "hookah-pens," "e-hookahs" and "vape pens" are just different names for e-cigs and usually contain nicotine.

The marketers have managed to rebrand nicotine-containing e-cigs so teens don't even realize that's what they're using.

Scroll down for photos of the e-cigs, and you'll see why the CDC is worried they're being marketed to kids. Also, the article continues below the photos.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/business/e-cigarettes-under-aliases-elude-the-authorities.html?action=click&module=Search®ion=searchResults%230&version=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fquery.nytimes.com%2Fsearch%2Fsitesearch%2F%3Faction%3Dclick%26region%3DMasthead%26pgtype%3DHomepage%26module%3DSearchSubmit%26contentCollection%3DHomepage%26t%3Dqry629%23%2Fe-cigs


But Ms. Zacks, a high school senior, does not call it that. In fact, she insists she has never even tried an e-cigarette. Like many teenagers, Ms. Zacks calls such products “hookah pens” or “e-hookahs” or “vape pipes.”

These devices are part of a subgenre of the fast-growing e-cigarette market and are being shrewdly marketed to avoid the stigma associated with cigarettes of any kind. The products, which are exploding in popularity, come in a rainbow of colors and candy-sweet flavors but, beneath the surface, they are often virtually identical to e-cigarettes, right down to their addictive nicotine and unregulated swirl of other chemicals.

The emergence of e-hookahs and their ilk is frustrating public health officials who are already struggling to measure the spread of e-cigarettes, particularly among young people. The new products and new names have health authorities wondering if they are significantly underestimating use because they are asking the wrong questions when they survey people about e-cigarettes.

SNIP

Indeed, public health officials warn that they may be misjudging the use of such products — whatever they are called — partly because of semantics. A survey by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 10 percent of high school students nationwide said that they had tried e-cigarettes in 2012, double the year before. But the C.D.C. conceded it might have asked the wrong question: Many young people say they have not and will not use an e-cigarette but do say they have tried hookah pens, e-hookahs or vaping pens.


SNIP

James Hennessey, a sophomore at Drake High School in San Anselmo, Calif., who has tried a hookah pen several times, said e-hookahs were less dangerous than e-cigarettes. He and several Drake students estimated that 60 percent of their classmates had tried the devices, that they could be purchased easily in local stores, and that they often were present at parties or when people were hanging out.

SNIP

[A-Schwarzenegger]

1. "addictive nicotine and unregulated swirl of other chemicals"

but it's peach-flavored & cool & I can stop anytime.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. And it is not, I repeat this, it is not

marketed to kids.



I suppose I'd better add this

[chrisa]

159. It's absolutely laughable.

"Despite having every element of our product seemingly designed to get young teenagers addicted, we are not marketing to teenagers. Oh, and we have a bridge in Antarctica for sale too, and some miracle-cure snake oil!" *Sigh...

[superpatriotman]

2. And yet another anti- e-cig post

The answer is simple.

ONLY AVAILABLE TO ADULTS

[pnwmom]

6. So? Many states allow them to be sold to teens. Have you checked into whether your state does?

And not even all DUers realize that the sweet flavored ones usually contain nicotine -- I've talked to people about that here.

So the word still needs to get out.

[pnwmom]

40. That's not true. Why would you think that? They're mostly unregulated.

http://www.fox19.com/story/23827549/electronic-cigarettes-can-be-sold-to-kids-fox19-investigates

While e-cigarettes may look like the real thing, they're not subject to U.S tobacco laws. The e-cigarette industry is largely unregulated.

In September, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine joined 39 other state attorneys general to urge the Food and Drug Administration to regulate the e-cigarette industry the same way it regulates the tobacco industry and restrict use by minors.

"In the state of Ohio, you can buy e-cigarettes no matter what your age," DeWine said. "it's not just vapor they're inhaling. It's heated nicotine and nicotine we know, is highly addictive."

http://www.rep-am.com/articles/2014/03/15/news/connecticut/790510.txt

HARTFORD — Gov. Dannel P. Malloy outlined legislation Wednesday that would to ban the sale of electronic cigarettes to children in Connecticut.

Malloy said that while the use of the tobacco-less nicotine delivery systems has been touted as a way to help some adults stop smoking, it also has been shown to be gateway for children to start using tobacco.

"It mirrors in many ways what the smoking experience is," Malloy said. "So we want to make sure that minors are not being exposed to this."

[Gravitycollapse]

43. Well that's crazy. I was unaware that any states still allowed e-cigarette sales to minors.

I've certainly never been in one.

The age should be restricted to 18 in all states.

[pnwmom]

44. I agree. I edited the post to add that 39 states have petitioned

to have the Federal Government regulate them and restrict them to adults. (In case you didn't see that.)

But as it stands now, most teens have free access to these sweet-flavored nicotine dispensers.

[krawhitham]

130. Ohio passed a law where you have to be 18 (HB 144) DeWine is just a tool like many here

Same bill also states E-Cigs are NOT a Tobacco product but an alternate nicotine delivery system

[pnwmom]

137. The same letter was also signed by the Democratic Attorney General of MA, Martha Coakley.

And regardless of what law Ohio passed, it is still true that millions of minors in many states can easily purchase these nicotine delivery systems.

In fact, when the Governor signed the bill into law (less than two weeks ago), Ohio became the very first state in the country to ban the sale of e-cigs to minors. Thanks for the tip. I hadn't realized the situation was that bad.

http://consumerist.com/2014/02/13/ohio-likely-to-become-first-state-to-prohibit-e-cigarette-sales-to-minors/

E-cigs are still in a strange regulatory no-man’s-land. They’re kind of like regular cigarettes, but they’re also kind of not. Can you use them in places where smoking’s not allowed? Do they fall under current laws restricting the sale of tobacco products to minors? Nobody really knows, yet. Nobody, that is, except the state of Ohio, where a bill regulating e-cigarette sales is now sitting on the governor’s desk.

As the Cleveland.com reports, the bill banning the sale of e-cigarettes to minors succeeded in the Ohio state Senate this week, after passing the House in November. If the governor signs the bill into law, Ohio will become the first state to pass legislation restricting e-cigarette sales. (New York City regulates where they can be smoked, but not to whom they can be sold, and Los Angeles is considering a city-level sales restriction.)

The bill adds a provision for “alternative nicotine products” to Ohio’s restrictions on the sale of tobacco to minors. It forbids anyone under eighteen years of age, unless accompanied by an adult parent, spouse, or guardian, from purchasing, ordering, using, consuming, or possessing “cigarettes, other tobacco products, alternative nicotine products, or papers used to roll cigarettes.” The penalty for selling e-cigarettes to minors would be $1000 per violation.

The bill–supported by the Lorillard Tobacco Company, among others–met with opposition from the American Lung Association and American Cancer Society because of the new legal categories created for alternative nicotine products and electronic cigarettes. The new product category isn’t taxed at the same deliberately discouraging rate as tobacco products, and advocacy groups argue that encourages the use of e-cigs.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/03/law_banning_sale_of_e-cigarett.html

From the beginning of this process, I believed it was common sense that a product that is clearly designed to give the same addictive effects as smoking a real cigarette should be included under the same category. As a mother of two teenagers, it was an honor to sponsor this legislation because I believe it will make a positive difference in the lives of young people throughout our state. I am proud to see the bill pass both chambers with bipartisan support, including unanimously in the Senate. (Gov. John Kasich sign the bill into law.)

[krawhitham]

150. Ohio is not 1st state to ban sales to minors, please educate yourself & stop spreading faslehoods

2 seconds using Google and I found HB 1541 from New Hampshire which banned the sale to minors 4 years ago

10 more seconds on Google finds

California banned sales to minors in 2011
Colorado banned sales to minors in 2011
Idaho banned sales to minors in 2012
Maryland banned sales to minors in 2012
Minnesota banned sales to minors in 2010
New Jersey banned sales to minors in 2010
Tennessee banned sales to minors in 2011
Utah banned sales to minors in 2010
Wisconsin banned sales to minors in 2012

Spending a whole 3 minutes on Google finds this list

At least 25 States had banned sales to minors
Alabama – 2013 (age 19) (HB 286, signed by Governor on 5/23/13)
Alaska – 2012 (age 19) (HB 144, signed by Governor 5/21/12)
Arkansas – 2013 (HB 1398, signed by Governor 4/22/13)
Arizona – 2013 (SB 1209, signed by Governor on 6/20/13)
California – 2011 (CAL. HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE § 119405)
Colorado – 2011 (COLO. REVISED STAT. § 18-13-121)
Hawaii – 2013 (HB 672, signed by Governor 7/02/13)
Idaho – 2012 (IDAHO CODE ANN. § 39-5705).
Illinois – 2013 (SB 1756, signed by Governor 8/15/13)
Indiana – 2013 (HB 1225, signed by Governor 4/01/13)
Kansas – 2012 (HB 2324, signed by Governor 5/17/12)
Maryland – 2012 (MD. CODE ANN., HEALTH GEN. § 24-305)
Minnesota – 2010 (MINN. TOBACCO MODERNIZATION AND COMPLIANCE ACT OF 2010 § 609.6855)
Mississippi – 2013 (HB 613, signed by Governor 3/18/13)
New Hampshire -- 2010 (N.H. REV. STATE. ANN. § 126-K:4)
New Jersey – 2010 (age 19) (N.J. STAT. ANN. § 2C:33-13.1)
New York – 2012 (AB 09044-B, signed by Governor, 9/05/2012)
Nevada – 2013 (SB 177, approved by Governor 6/1/13)* (permits local boards to enact bans on products “derived from” tobacco to minors)
North Carolina – 2013 (SB 630, signed by Governor 6/19/13)
South Carolina – 2013 (HB 3538, signed by Governor 6/07/13)
Tennessee – 2011 (TENN. CODE ANN. § 39-17-1504)
Utah – 2010 (age 19) (UTAH CODE ANN. § 76-10-104)
Vermont – 2012 (H. 747, signed by Governor 5/16/2012)
Washington – 2013 (HB 1937, signed by Governor 4/23/13)
Wisconsin – 2012 (WIS. STAT. ANN. § 134.66)
Wyoming – 2013 (SB 103, signed by Governor 3/13/13)


Connecticut says they want to be the 28th state to ban sales to minors So I'm missing one, Ohio was the 26th (or the 27th)

Most other states already have Bills in their House and or Senate that will be enacted soon

Google is your friend, well it is your friend if you want the truth and are not just about spreading falsehoods and scaring people

[pnwmom]

151. Thanks. Google is the friend who offered up the article I posted. It was the first article listed.

Apparently, Google failed.

OTOH, even according to what you have just listed, minors in dozens of states can still freely buy e-cigs. And 40 Attorney Generals wrote a letter to the FDA last fall asking for Federal regulation of sales to minors, recognizing that state laws are not enough.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. This is one of the things that regulations intent to do

but even that is eeevvvvviiilll or 'thing!

I cannot wait for the but, but minors get whatever they want!!!!

[Hekate]

8. Stop! My sides hurt from laughing!

[Glitterati]

20. Yeah, we have a select few stuck on stupid

I swear, I think I made a wrong turn and somehow landed on one the wrong site!

[chrisa]

160. The answer is never simple, but

we can all agree that corporate sleezebags shouldn't be trying to get teenagers hooked with e-cigarettes by giving them different names, giving them candy flavors, and painting them pretty colors.

I thought we got past the whole "get 'em hooked while they're young" bull crap, but apparently where there's money to be made, there's a way.

I have no problem with e-cigs. Just don't market them to children.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. EEK!!

[Hekate]

5. How many times does it have to be pointed out that Nicotine Is Addictive?

I'd like to be wrong for once.

[pnwmom]

9. Many teens don't realize that the hookah pens contain nicotine.

Even some DU-ers don't realize that e-cigs usually do, even the sweet-flavored ones.

[Glitterati]

17. Perhaps you need to speak to the FDA

Because, they made nicotine patches, gum and lozenges available over the counter in 1996!

My teen can even go into the local Publix and buy nicotine gum off the shelf!

OMG! Kids can buy nicotine delivery systems thanks to the FDA!

[Hekate]

23. And your point is what? Big Tobacco knows. The FDA knows. NICOTINE IS ADDICTIVE.

And your teen buys this gum at Publix? Really? I thought they'd ask for ID, same as with cigarettes. But silly me, I didn't think my 13 year old could gain access to cigarettes either, and she did, and by the time she fessed up for real she was 15 and hooked for life. Til death do them part. Seriously, she'll be 40 next year, and she's been a smoker all that time.

[Glitterati]

27. My point is simple, actually

this hysteria over kids and nicotine is obviously just that - hysteria.

Even the FDA knows better.

And, yes, it's absolute fact that my 16 yr. old bought nicotine replacement gum for me at our local Publix years ago.

This is nanny state BS - repeated over and over and over on DU. 5 threads in 2 days of this BS. And, I ignored the first ones simply because they were so over the top I didn't think they were worth my time.

[Politicalboi]

79. Just think of the children

I'm so sick and tired of these threads. Pure nonsense. It's bad parenting.

[Glitterati]

84. They truly are out of control aren't they?

These ecig nannies are just on a tear.

I guess DU is boring without an all out war going on about something stupid, right?

[DebJ]

134. Hm. In my area, all nicotine items are locked up in the pharmacy.

You have to ask the pharmacist for them.

[Glitterati]

144. And in my area they are on the shelf n/t

[PearliePoo2]

10. You can buy the e-juice in different nicotine amounts...

including zero.
I have two friends that are vaping to quit cigs. They started out with high nicotine juice and then gradually reduced it down to zero. Yeah, they have that "hand to mouth" thing going! But no nicotine now and no cigarettes! One likes the coffee flavored juice and one has a mint flavor.

[pnwmom]

12. Yes you can. But if you read the article you'll see many teens are unaware of the nicotine content

of the "hookah pens" they are vaping.

They mistakenly think that hookah pens or vape pens are all nicotine free. Even some DUers think that -- I couldn't convince one recently that the sweet flavored ones still usually contain nicotine.

[energumen]

161. I really doubt all our children are that unintelligent that they don't know

or maybe we should be more worried about literacy. There could be exceptions, but every liquid vapor product I have bought has clearly stated the nicotine content on the package label. It has always been quite clear, even with my tired old eyes. I didn't even need to don my reading glasses. I have been in vapor shops all over the US and I have not run across any unlabeled product. Even the 0% nicotine level clearly state their their level, or lack thereof, on the label.

[pnwmom]

162. You're not thinking about how kids are using these devices.

Often, they're used socially. They're passing them around among friends. They're not reading the labels of the product that was put inside the pen. (And by the time more frequent users notice the label, they could already be addicted. Studies have shown it can take very few exposures to nicotine to get addicted.)

Besides, not all vape packaging is labeled, despite your experience. And one of the examples given in the photo with the article was a pen that said both "no nicotine" and "contains nicotine."

[Glitterati]

22. These people are allergic to FACTS

and first hand experience. We've already spent days trying to insert the FACTS into their hysteria and they just keep repeating the hysteria over and over and over and over and over.

FACTS be damned to these people. Many of us have tried.

[Mariana]

65. But that's anecdotal.

Some of these people seem to think the word "anecdotal" means "nonexistent".

[pipoman]

11. Then there's this in Colorado. ..

To listen to the supporters here, kids won't even be tempted by this...nothing could possibly go wrong. .

[pnwmom]

14. Wow.

[pipoman]

18. Yeah, here is a thread about it...People are pretty cavalier about the elephant in the corner

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024631818

[Glitterati]

28. Of course they're cavalier

that's not their crusade for the week.

Just wait a few minutes. Someone will invent a nephew who's selling it in a mall kisok.

[Bjorn Against]

86. Yum, I love sour gummy bears

And those look like the best sour gummy bears ever, I need to go to Colorado so I can get some. Please note that I am not a kid, I am an adult and you can't tell me that those are not being marketed to me.

[fizzgig]

131. i haven't been to a shop yet

the closest one is about 40 minutes away and i'm too broke anyway. i'll make a trip to boulder for that and trader joe's when i have some money.

i can understand the concern that these products are appealing to children, but if you're going to have that in a house with children, it's up to you to keep them out of it. lock that shit up.

[Bjorn Against]

132. Agreed, it should be kept away from kids but available to adults.

[Mariana]

147. Available to adults, and in any flavors the adults want.

Plenty of adults have a sweet tooth and enjoy the candy and dessert type flavors.

[redstatebluegirl]

13. These vape stores are popping up on every streetcorner in this campus town.

Of course it isn't targeting young people at all "sarcasm"....

[pnwmom]

15. My cute teenage niece was hired to sell these things in a kiosk in a mall.

All the sellers were young and cute but of course they weren't marketing to young people.

[ohheckyeah]

174. Where was your cute teenage

niece's parents?

[brewens]

16. I'd say a lot of e-cig use by teenagers are kids that have already started smoking real

cigarettes. The way I remember it, an e-cig would have been ideal to get a quick nicotine fix between classes without worrying about getting caught. I know when I first started I had no intention of quitting smoking. I loved it and was actually glad I had started. Now I realize that was not a good thing to have been allowed to do so easily at that age but that's the way it was.

I'm pretty sceptical that e-cigs are getting a lot of kids addicted to nicotine and or causing them to start smoking for real. I'd bet in many cases it would be someone that would have started smoking anyway.

[pnwmom]

19. If you read the article, you'll see that many of these kids don't smoke regular cigarettes

and they don't intend to smoke e-cigs.

They just don't realize that the flavored vape pens ARE e-cigs and usually contain nicotine.

[Mariana]

68. They don't intend to smoke e-cigs, but they smoke e-cigs?

The e-cigs are just jumping into their mouths, or what?

[pnwmom]

88. They are buying and sharing these things they call "hookah pens" or "vape pens,"

not realizing that they are the same thing as the e-cigs they reject -- but in prettier containers and sweeter flavors. Did you read the article in the OP and look at the pictures? The e-cigs look like cigarettes. The "hookahs" look more like toys.

[Glitterati]

90. The only one who says this

is a proven anti smoking campaigner, in a PRESS RELEASE, without a single study to prove their allegations.

And our AntiECigarette Crusaders on DU.

[superpatriotman]

21. Stop. Your anecdote is destroying the narrative

As many other vapers would also were they so inclined.

[louis-t]

24. Tobacco companies made 'candy cigarettes' when I was a kid

to get kids indoctrinated.

[Vashta Nerada]

25. Meh.

I'd rather smell ecig vapors than real cig smoke.

[pnwmom]

26. Of course. But current bans mean we don't have to smell either one. n/t

[ohheckyeah]

175. Funny...

I've asked many people if they could smell ecig vapors and not one person has been able to.

[Prophet 451]

29. I'm all for age regulation

but complaining about "sweet flavours" is a "Hitler ate sugar" argument. They make these things in every flavour on the planet, same as they make booze in every flavour. It's just short of complaining that they should only come in boiled skunk flavour because ecig smokers shouldn't be allowed to enjoy it.

[tammywammy]

30. +1 n/t

[Jesus Malverde]

32. Or that adults shouldn't like candy flavors.

For adults we have "stale beer", "used Jockstrap", "ashtray", and "burnt coffee" any other flavors are for children.

[Autumn]

35. The caramel coffee juice tastes just like "burnt coffee".

That was nasty.

[Mariana]

71. I know of one vendor with good caramel coffee flavor. nt.

[Autumn]

80. I've only gone to one vendor in Colorado Springs.

That was really the only one in the testers that I tried that I thought was nasty, I didn't try of the candy flavors. I'm on the zero nicotine juice now so I doubt I'll buy any more flavors. I rarely remember to pick up my e cig any more.

[bigwillq]

36. I agree.

Good post.

[Mariana]

148. I think that's what a lot of this is about, Prophet.

That's why you don't see the same level of outrage over flavored alcoholic beverages, or flavored nicotine gum, or even flavored cigars! No, it's flavored vaping fluid that's evil and must be destroyed.

For some of them, it's obviously about punishing smokers (and former smokers). Lots of smokers are not only able to stop smoking painlessly with these things, but often they enjoy vaping more than they ever liked smoking. That puts some people into an absolute rage. They want smokers to suffer, even after they've quit.

[Jesus Malverde]

31. Imagine all those potential smokers that will never try a cigarette because of these devices.

We're going to miss out on a lifetime of taxes and increased healthcare needs...oh noes.

[Tikki]

128. An addiction to nicotine is not cheap and it is an addiction.

Do you want generations to come being addicted to nicotine?

e-cigarettes need to be regulated, ingredients and warnings on kits and labels, crack-down on minors obtaining them
and re-branded in advertising as a stop smoking 'only' tool.
Advertised with positive stories of those who quit cigarettes and then weaned off e-cigarettes and nicotine completely.
Shouldn't that be the goal?

Tikki

[beevul]

156. A popular and common misconception.

"An addiction to nicotine is not cheap and it is an addiction."

A popular and common misconception. Nicotine addiction from smoking cigarettes, is NOT the same as nicotine addiction from vaping.

I know first hand, as a former 26 year smoker that now vapes. I also know why. E-cig icotine does not contain MAOI like combusted commercially available tobacco does.

Without the MAOI, the "addiction" rises to about the same level as caffeine addiction.

So lets don't proceed based on the wrongheaded idea that the "addiction" is the same, or be implying that untruth to others who might not know any different.

[Tikki]

169. Unlike prescription nicotine patches, no electronic cigarettes have been approved for therapeutic..

uses by the Food and Drug Administration.

You really don't have any idea what you are putting into your system.

Tikki

[beevul]

170. Actually, I do.

I know the exact content of my juices.

I also know whats in my carts, and where and how they're made, and what they're made of.


And unlike those prescription and OTC things, e-cigs work to get you off cigs.

And that's beside the fact that its MY system...I can decide for myself what to put in it, and don't need anyones help or input.

[ohheckyeah]

176. And that is your business

why? If an adult chooses to use it, it's really not your concern.

[Autumn]

33. They need to age restrict them and that's it. They also come with ZERO nicotine.

I call bullshit that teens don't even realize that's what they're using.

[pnwmom]

37. Most of them DO come with nicotine, though they're not always labeled properly.

Why would teens know what they're using, when I've had to explain to adults here on DU that sweet-flavored e-cigs usually contain nicotine.

[Autumn]

42. It depends on what e cig you buy, with mine I buy the 3 oz bottle of juice and fill it

and the bottles are mixed to your choice of flavors and the amount of nicotine you chose ranging from the amount a pack and a half a day smoker would need down to zero nicotine. All of the e cigs and pretty fancy e-hookahs I have seen are refillable which means they are refilled and reused and you have a choice, nicotine or no nicotine when you purchase the juice to refill them.

[Glitterati]

45. Autumn, we've tried to supply FACTS for 2 days

and this hysteria has continued.

Many DUers have presented FACT after FACT after FACT on this topic, first hand experience, legitimate studies, everything. Yet the hysteria you see in this thread continues.

I've come to the conclusion that DU has become the victim of a targeted, massive, coordinated, paid campaign to spread lies, disinformation and hysteria about ecigarettes.

One after the other after the other for days. 5 separate threads on DU in 2 days - all hysteria just like this and a coordinated effort to bury the FACTS in hysteria.

[Autumn]

46. Every store here that I have seen that sells e cigs does not sell to

teenagers. It is hysteria.

[Glitterati]

47. Same here, plus

every website which sells ecigarettes requires verification that the customer is over 18 as well.

[pnwmom]

48. The FACT is that these things are unregulated in most states, and sold to minors.

If you want people to support e-cigs, you should at the very least agree to require proper labeling and to restrict the sale to adults.

[Glitterati]

54. More and more undocumented hysteria

you're really getting shrill now....

[pnwmom]

56. I documented this Glitterati, as you know. n/t

[Glitterati]

57. None of you hysterics have documented a thing

Press releases are NOT documentation.

[pnwmom]

58. 40 State Attorney Generals have petitioned the FDA to restrict the use by minors.

Because, as it stands now, e-cigs are mostly unregulated.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/09/26/2683181/attorneys-general-fda-letter-e-cigs/

Attorneys general from California, New York, North Carolina, and 37 other states have sent a letter to Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Commissioner Margaret Hamburg urging her agency “to take all available measures” to issue rules regulating the manufacturing, advertising, and marketing of electronic cigarettes (or “e-cigs”).

“With the protection of our States’ citizens again in mind, the undersigned Attorneys General write to highlight the need for immediate regulatory oversight of e-cigarettes, an increasingly widespread, addictive product,” wrote the attorneys general.

Big Tobacco companies have enthusiastically jumped on the e-cigarette bandwagon as traditional tobacco use rates in the U.S. continue to dwindle, and there is little doubt that products’ popularity has risen dramatically in recent years. According to a September survey by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), one in ten high school students self-reported trying an e-cig last year. The attorneys general note in their letter that industry sales have doubled every year since 2008 and are expected to reach a peak of $1.7 billion in 2013.

While product use has steadily increased, the FDA has been slow to issue e-cigarette regulations. One anti-tobacco advocate told ThinkProgress that “it’s the wild, wild west” when it comes to current e-cigarette oversight. The attorneys general reflected that view in their letter, criticizing the tobacco industry for advertising the high-tech products using marketing that appeals to children. For instance, one company uses a cartoon monkey to sell its e-cigs — a tactic that is explicitly prohibited for all other tobacco products. There is also little oversight regarding the ingredients that can be placed into e-cigarettes.


http://www.fox19.com/story/23827549/electronic-cigarettes-can-be-sold-to-kids-fox19-investigates

While e-cigarettes may look like the real thing, they're not subject to U.S tobacco laws. The e-cigarette industry is largely unregulated.

In September, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine joined 39 other state attorneys general to urge the Food and Drug Administration to regulate the e-cigarette industry the same way it regulates the tobacco industry and restrict use by minors.

"In the state of Ohio, you can buy e-cigarettes no matter what your age," DeWine said. "it's not just vapor they're inhaling. It's heated nicotine and nicotine we know, is highly addictive."

[Glitterati]

60. Wow. Just. Wow.

Quoting a mad duck republican, with the source from FOX? No, you're not the least bit desperate, now are you?

DeWine is opposed to legal abortion. In the Senate, he was the lead sponsor of the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.[7]

DeWine opposes same-sex marriage and sponsored the Federal Marriage Amendment but opposed State Issue 1, Ohio's constitutional amendment defining marriage as one man and one woman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_DeWine

[pnwmom]

62. Re-read the post. There's a link from Think Progress. You can't deny that the 40 attorney generals

wrote the letter asking the FDA to regulate e-cigs -- that they are currently mostly unregulated -- so you tried to divert the issue.

[Glitterati]

64. Hey, here's an idea!!!!!!

Why don't YOU and your crew of ecigarette hysterics write a letter, too?

You see, anyone can write a letter to the FDA, and request ANYTHING, especially if they have absolutely ZERO evidence to back up their request!!!!!!!

[pnwmom]

67. I would appreciate it if you could keep the debate civil instead of resorting

to middle school name-calling. It doesn't add anything to the strength of your argument (which you haven't backed up with a single link or fact, by the way. Don't you know how to google?)

The 40 state attorneys general know what the e-cig laws are in their states and in the country, and that e-cigs are mostly not regulated. You clearly do not.

[Glitterati]

70. Right, like you have.

just in case it was unclear

Please, list those 40 AGs. What, we're about to find out there's 39 MORE Dewine's? Blow me over with a feather that there are 40 republican AGs!

[pnwmom]

74. I will list them as soon as you can site me a single report showing the opposite --

that minors are restricted from buying e-cigs in all the states.

Never mind. I know that will never happen. Here's the complete list.

http://consumerist.com/2013/09/24/40-attorneys-general-agree-e-cigarettes-needs-to-be-regulated-like-tobacco/

Martha Coakley (MA)
Mike DeWine (OH)
Michael Geraghty (AK)
Tom Horne (AZ)
Dustin McDaniel (AR)
Kamala Harris (CA)
John Suthers (CO)
George Jepsen (CT)
Joe Biden III (DE)
David Louie (HI)
Lawrence Wasden (ID)
Lisa Madigan (IL)
Greg Zoeller (IN)
Tom Miller (IA)
Jack Conway (KY)
James Caldwell (LA)
Janet Mills (ME)
Douglas Gansler (MD)
Bill Schuette (MI)
Lori Swanson (MN)
Jim Hood (MS)
Chris Koster (MO)
Tim Fox (MT)
Catherine Cortez Mastro (NV)
Joseph Foster (NH)
Gary King (NM)
Eric Schneiderman (NY)
Roy Cooper (NC)
Ellen Rosenblum (OR)
Kathleen Kane (PA)
Peter Kilmartin (RI)
Marty Jackley (SD)
Robert Cooper (TN)
John Swallow (UT)
William Sorrell (VT)
Robert Ferguson (WA)
Peter Michael (WY)
Vincent Frazer (US Virgin Islands)
Luis Sanchez Betances (Puerto Rico)
Lenny Rapadas (Guam)

“Unlike traditional tobacco products, there are no federal age restrictions that would prevent children from obtaining e-cigarettes, nor are there any advertising restrictions,” reads the letter [PDF], co-authored by Massachusetts AG Martha Coakley and Ohio AG Mike DeWine.

The AGs are concerned about the recent increase in the number of prime-time TV ads for these products, not just because these commercials can reach an audience that tobacco ads can’t, but also because these spots don’t always market e-cigarettes as devices primarily intended to help quit smoking.

“Consumers are led to believe that e-cigarettes are a safe alternative to cigarettes, despite the fact that they are addictive, and there is no regulatory oversight ensuring the safety of the ingredients.”
“E-cigarettes contain fruit and candy flavors — such as cherry, chocolate, gummy bear, and bubble gum — that are appealing to youth,” continues the letter, which points out that the FDA has previously banned such flavors from being used in traditional cigarettes.

[Glitterati]

77. You're the one with claims you have failed to prove

Step up!

[pnwmom]

78. I just did. Go back and look at the list. n/t

[Glitterati]

82. ROFL, you've proved nothing

except for your desire to control ecigarettes. YOUR desire, nothing more.

[pnwmom]

85. I have proved that there are no Federal regulations restricting the sale of e-cigs to minors.

You are the one who hasn't proved anything except your ignorance.

[Glitterati]

87. Wow, you are too funny

it's really fun watching you just spin out of control.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[pnwmom]

89. Do you understand the meaning of "projection"?

Probably not. Never mind.

[Glitterati]

91. LOL

I'm just having fun watching you repeat, rinse, repeat garbage without any facts.

It's really pretty funny.

[pnwmom]

92. Please point me to a single fact that you have cited, with a source

other than your own imaginings.

[Glitterati]

95. Go back to the other ECig Hysteria threads

I posted a link to a quite renowned STUDY. You know, with FACTS and stuff. Not a press release.

[pnwmom]

97. Nope. It's got to be posted here. Or at least linked to.

And by the way, what press release are you referring to? The OP doesn't contain any mention of a press release.

[Glitterati]

99. ROFL, now THAT'S funny

you think you're in some position to demand the proof already offered, days ago, AND YOU SIMPLY IGNORED?

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! That takes some brass ones!

[pnwmom]

110. You think that EVERYONE reads all your posts every day?

Or even notices them?

[Glitterati]

114. Thanks for the admit

that you simply ignore any and all proof offered.

Oh, that's NOT what you meant? Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!

[pnwmom]

118. Check the dictionary. "Read," "notice" and "ignore" are three different words

with three different meanings.

[LanternWaste]

155. I wish I see the hysteria you consistently refer to.

I wish I see the hysteria you consistently refer to. I do like the numerous explanation points at the of your post-- but that's really the closest thing to melodrama or hysteria I've witnessed on this thread...

[ohheckyeah]

177. Wow - how many have you

bought. The website I use clearly label even the sweet ones as to whether or not they have nicotine. Most people can read.

http://www.blucigs.com/cartridges/

[pnwmom]

187. Read the OP. There are no regulations requiring labeling, so the labeling is inconsistent.

In fact, they showed a picture of one pen that was labeled both "contains nicotine" and "no nicotine."

Most people can read, but the other factor is that many young people are handed these things by their friends to share. They don't see what fluid goes into them. They just share them.

[Live and Learn]

185. What do you mean they are not labeled properly?

What proof do you have of that. None! Please quit spewing nonfactual evidence on a subject you know very little about. Many people vape with juice containing no nicotine. Usually after weening themselves off of nicotine. You are misleading people and your ignorance is in fact dangerous to peoples lives.

[NightWatcher]

34. Cigarettes are much more sexy than ecigs.

And that's why we need ecigs, for adults who have been hooked on regular cigs to be able to kick the habit.

I bet Big Tobacco would really love it if ecigs were outlawed....so adults stayed hooked on regular cigs....till it kills em.

Regulate them if you want, but don't get rid of them.

[pnwmom]

38. Big Tobacco is already moving in on the e-cig market. That's the future for them.

It's already the present for Phillip Morris.

The customer base of Big Tobacco had been steadily eroding, but with the switch to e-cig nicotine dispensers, it's wide open again now.

[Autumn]

51. Yeah they love the re fillable e cigs.

A 3 oz bottle of juice is 8 bucks and lasts for about 3 weeks, a carton of cigarettes is 36 bucks and at a pack a day a carton lasts for 10 days. Not so sure that's that big of a present for Phillip Morris.

[pnwmom]

55. It's a present for them considering their customer base was disappearing.

So few kids were taking up smoking.

But now, with their new rebranding of e-cigs to "hookah pens," they're back in business.

[ProfessorGAC]

104. An Olympic Class Leap of Logic

If that logical leap were the long jump you'd hit 30 feet easy.

[Glitterati]

107. For which not one iota of proof has been offered

Based, only, on a press release by a well known anti-smoking campaigner, with no facts on the table.

All this hysteria over a PRESS RELEASE.

[pnwmom]

109. What press release? You keep talking about one. Did you make that up, too? N/T

[pnwmom]

108. The leap in logic was made by Big Tobacco, starting with Lorillard and Philip Morris.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1999951-2-tobacco-companies-looking-at-electronic-cigarettes-for-growth

Electronic cigarettes are gaining popularity as they have come as a boon to smokers looking to quit smoking. The device, E-Cig, was first introduced by a Chinese pharmacist named Hon Lik in 1984. Ever since the inception of this device, a new market was created by tobacco companies engaged in the manufacturing of cigarettes. Companies like Lorillard (LO) and Philip Morris International (PM) are embracing this device to power their growth.

SNIP

Not just Lorillard, but even other tobacco companies such as Philip Morris International also have plans to step into this territory. The company has officially announced that it will launch E-Cigs in 2014. Both these companies feel that E-Cigs will positively influence their top and bottom lines in the future.

E-Cigs contributing to Lorillard's revenue
E-Cigs have already started contributing for Lorillard. It recorded almost 3.4% of revenue from this category in the previous quarter out of a total of $5.2 billion. With E-Cigs still in the nascent stage, the future seems bright for Lorillard.
The rise in sales of the Blue E-Cigs brand is a result of various brand building activities conducted as a strategic marketing move by Lorillard. The benefits of these brand building activities can be seen in the last quarterly result.

[Glitterati]

112. I'm going to call attention to the TITLE and DATE of this article

2 Tobacco Companies Looking At Electronic Cigarettes For Growth
Feb. 6, 2014

Please note......"looking at"

There is only one company in this article selling ecigs - Lorillard - in the US.

And NOWHERE does it say they are or intend to market "vapes" nor "hookahs" to children. In fact they have ONE product in the US - BLU ecigs.

[pnwmom]

116. Read the sentence again and think hard.

They're looking at it e-cigs FOR GROWTH.

But Lorillard has already moved into the market and Philip Morris is doing it right now, in 2014.

And no, they're not going to announce that they'll be marketing it to children. But if the market remains wide open to kids, there will be nothing to stop them. I'm sure you're old enough to remember candy cigarettes. They've never hesitated to market to kids before.

[Glitterati]

117. Considering

con·sid·er·ing
[kuhn-sid-er-ing] Show IPA
preposition
1.
taking into account; in view of: The campaign was a great success, considering the strong opposition.
adverb
2.
Informal. with all things considered (used only after the statement it modifies): He paints very well, considering.
conjunction
3.
taking into consideration that: Considering they are newcomers, they've adjusted very well.

Another FAIL!

[pnwmom]

119. You just had another brain blip. The article didn't say "considering."

The article said, "looking at" . . .growth. Meaning, "expecting" in this context. But the word "considering" wasn't anywhere except in your own head.

[Glitterati]

120. Youth Smoking Prevention by (gasp!) Lorillard!

Youth Smoking Prevention

To address the issue of underage smoking Lorillard Tobacco launched our voluntary Youth Smoking Prevention Program (YSPP) in 1999. Since starting the program, Lorillard has committed more than $80 million to its efforts.

Recently, Lorillard’s YSPP has focused its efforts on a parent education program, featuring the slogan, “Real Parents. Real Answers.” The program attempts to prompt parents to discuss not smoking with their children, and features a website, www.RealParentsRealAnswers.com, which allows parents to blog with other parents, listen to podcasts, watch videos, and allows parents to learn how to conduct this important conversation.

The program utilizes the expertise of Dr. Michael Popkin, a renowned parenting expert. Dr. Popkin’s messages through Lorillard’s YSPP have reached hundreds of thousands of parents. Those interested may receive a free brochure from Dr. Popkin and receive regular E-mail newsletter updates by signing up at the website.

Please visit the following links for more information on the Lorillard Tobacco Company Youth Smoking Prevention Program: www.RealParentsRealAnswers.com
- See more at: http://www.lorillard.com/responsibility/youth-smoking-prevention/#sthash.hDinlGyg.dpuf

[pnwmom]

122. Then they should be thrilled when the FDA finally bans the sale to minors. Good news!

[Glitterati]

124. You're big, bad tobacco company

never sold any of it to minors, so I guess you can take a chill pill and get rid of your hysteria now.

[pnwmom]

126. They're selling e-cigs right now to minors, but you keep on displaying your ignorance. n/t

[Glitterati]

129. Once again, not a shred of proof

Besides, Lorillard makes ONE ecig.....BLU ecig. No "hookahs" no "vape pens" none of your imagined monsters.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Desert805]

133. Why are you so ridiculously against

regulating e-cigs? *shrug*. Is it some Colbert type act I'm not in on?

You're coming off like a total tool. Errrrrr... Of the tobacco industry.

[Glitterati]

145. I am ridiculously against MISINFORMATION, HYSTERIA

Lack of facts and hysteria.

ROFL, there's more of that misinformation - there's no "tobacco" in ecigarettes!

[ProfessorGAC]

146. Establishing Nothing You Said

In your zeal, you forgot which point you were trying to make. Nobody denies that companies try to make money. Your laborious snip is apropos of nothing.

[Glitterati]

59. ROFL, exactly

Plus the fact not one person has documented that a single Big Tobacco company is selling the first ecigarette.

Just more hysteria. No proof. Just hysteria.

[Mariana]

73. Not to mention the juice is very easy to mix up at home.

Jack up the price on pre-mixed liquid and that's what people will do.

[Glitterati]

81. Just like the Roll Your Own cigarette industry

they put in regulations that jacked up the price of roll your own cigarette tobacco, so the RYO crowd switched to pipe tobacco which isn't regulated or costly.

[Mariana]

94. That's what some of my friends did

until I got them to switch to e-cigs.

[Glitterati]

96. Been smoke free 16 months, thanks to the ecig

My husband did the Roll Your Own until he passed away. I was on the ecigs by then.

Both methods were certainly way cheaper than cigarettes, but I think the results are much better for me.

[Mariana]

102. I'm sorry about your husband.

No smoking for almost three years for me. I'm on zero nicotine fluid and I continue to vape because I like it.

[Glitterati]

105. I still have 2 ecigs

Just for the day when I might want to pick up a cigarette. I keep one charged, but the other one is just sitting in my desk drawer.

I actually found the flavored vapor disgusting. Of course, I only tried it once, when I ordered my first kit that came with some flavored ones. It was chocolate something and it was AWFUL! LOL!

on edit:
Thanks for the condolences!

[Mariana]

106. A lot of them are awful, that's for sure.

I found some good ones. After the first couple of weeks, my taste changed and the tobacco flavors weren't getting it any more. I found a vendor that sold sample bottles cheap and he had a couple of flavors I really liked.

[Autumn]

93. Interesting. I didn't know you could buy the stuff to mix your own.

But you know that is the game plan, One way or another they will jack it up.

[Mariana]

98. The ingredients are easy to get and cheap.

I still buy them pre-mixed, although I almost always modify them before I use them. Some I dilute, some I sweeten, etc. I'm on zero nicotine, but I enjoy vaping so I continue to do it. A sweet flavored vape is a great substitute for a calorie-laden dessert!

[Autumn]

101. Where do you get the ingredients?

[Mariana]

111. Once you know what they are by name

they aren't hard to find. Some of the same vendors who sell ready to use liquid will also sell you the ingredients in bulk, but there are plenty of other sources, too.

[Glitterati]

41. They're here on DU

Given the number of posts on this garbage in just the last 3 days, I'd say we have some professionals from Big Tobacco on DU RIGHT NOW.

Why the hell do you think they're ginning up all this hysteria about ecigs?

I'll tell you why...because they do the job intended - HELP PEOPLE QUIT.

So now, Big Tobacco is sending folks out screaming, "THE KIDS! THE KIDS! LOOK WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO THE KIDS!

How many times have we seen this exact thing here? How much do we need to find it convincing that this is a concerted, massive campaign?

At least 5 threads screaming "THE KIDS, THE KIDS" in 2 days. Need much more convincing?

[NightWatcher]

49. They remind me of the "pot is bad" folks

Medicinal cannabis is on the cusp of helping so many... Cue the Reefer Madness brigade. I wonder if the ecig madness folks are related to the pot candy madness folks.

[pnwmom]

52. Are you saying that nicotine isn't bad for people? Are you equating nicotine addiction

with smoking pot (which isn't addictive, by the way)?

[NightWatcher]

69. I'm equating the ecig naysayers with the pot is bad naysayers

There are powerful groups that do not want ecigs to be legal. They want ecgis to be hard to get so that people will have to continue to smoke regular cigs. Just as there are naysayers that are saying that edible marijuana (which is often from medical cannabis dispensaries) are going to end up warping kids. Ecigs are good for smokers who are trying to quit. Medicinal cannabis (in any form) is good for those who are in pain and need it. The "won't somebody think of the kids" is a bs excuse to keep both of these off the market.

[pnwmom]

72. Are you aware that Big Tobacco is already taking over the e-cig market?

Their old market was disappearing, but now kids are getting hooked on their new nicotine dispensers. So it's a win-win for them either way.

Do you oppose regulations that restrict e-cigs to adults, just as regular cigarettes are restricted to adults? Because as it stands, kids can freely buy e-cigs in most states.

[NightWatcher]

76. ecigs should be restricted to 21 and over

I dont get why anyone would use ecigs to get into nicotine. Seems pretty dumb to me, but kids will be stupid.

[pnwmom]

83. The article in the OP says that, because of the marketing, and the lack of labeling requirements,

many teens don't realize that the "hookah pens" are anything more than flavored vapor to puff on. They don't realize they usually contain nicotine. So many teens deny e-cig use because they don't understand that what they're puffing on are e-cigs with a different name.

[beevul]

157. That is a lie. An utter baldfaced lie.

"Big tobacco", is nowhere near "taking over the e-cig market".

They understand the market, about as well as you appear to...which is to say...pretty close to not at all.

[Glitterati]

75. Well, NightWatcher

those "pot is bad naysers" got away with it for how many years?

How long has the War on Drugs been ongoing?

How many (mostly black) pot smokers have had their lives ruined over pot?

[Glitterati]

66. LOL, now stop

Don't you know that their nannyism is their drug of choice?

ROFL!

[pnwmom]

50. Wake up, Glitterati! Big Tobacco is taking over the e-cig market, starting with Phillip Morris.

They've been losing their consumer base, so they're switching their product lines to e-cigs.

It's a win-win for them no matter which way it goes.

I agree with you. The trolls from Big Tobacco are all over DU -- pushing the latest nicotine dispensers.

[Glitterati]

53. ROFL, you are just too obvious, dear

Sorry, your game has become clear.

[KittyWampus]

61. you are calling many DU'ers "trolls" while providing nothing but ludicrous anecdotal evidence.

your zealotry is unfortunate.

Hopefully, people such as yourself will not prevail.

E-cigrettes are effective in helping people who would otherwise be smoking combustable tobacco.

[pnwmom]

63. KittyWampus, the person I was responding to just accused people like me of being trolls.

Post 34. I was responding in kind.

[beevul]

158. Repeating that lie doesn't make it truth.

"Big Tobacco is taking over the e-cig market."


Repeating that lie doesn't make it truth.

[pnwmom]

164. Lorillard already took over an existing e-cig company, and Philip Morris is offering

their e-cig in test markets this year, with expansion nationwide next year.

This is the truth, whether you are oblivious to it or not.

[beevul]

165. Lorillard taking over one existing e-cig company, and Philip Morris offering trials...

Lorillard taking over one existing e-cig company, and Philip Morris offering trials, does not constitute "Big Tobacco taking over the e-cig market".

But then, you knew that even before you said "Big Tobacco is taking over the e-cig market".

Just like you knew that what I was calling a lie, was this statement, made by you:

"Big Tobacco is taking over the e-cig market".

So the question becomes:

Why are you intentionally misrepresenting the facts and the truth of the matter, and why are you being deliberately disingenuous in this debate?

Me, I wonder if the answer to both parts is the same.

[pnwmom]

166. When companies of that size move into a market, they're in the process of taking it over.

It's just a matter of how fast. With their declining base in young people smoking tobacco, they are expecting more and more of their profits to be based on e-cigs in the future.

[beevul]

168. Thats nice. Even if its an untruth.

Big Tobacco is no more taking over the e-cig industry, than Pontiac is taking over the auto industry.

Big Tobacco itself does not understand the e-cig market.

How can I know that? Because I'm an e-cig consumer.

People like you, and big tobacco for that matter, think you know how it all works. That people will just pick up an e-cig and its just like smoking.

You, and they, know nothing about how e-cig use works.

With You, I can tell, by what you say about what big tobacco is doing. And its not just me. Others here know it too.

And big tobacco, I can tell by what they're doing - which is not bringing to market a device, which is of any threat to people that successfully quit smoking in favor of vaping...that's right...what they're bringing to market is JUNK, which is no threat to take over the market in any way shape size or form. What they bring to market, as it stands right now, is a transitional device at best.

Oh, you might not think so, and big might not think so, but those of us that USE them, we know it for a fact.

So please. Just stop. You want to set age limits? Fine, I'm all for it. But enough with the freewheeling shoot from the hip misrepresentations of reality. They do not help your cause.

[pnwmom]

171. Big Tobacco has been expert at getting young people to try their nicotine products.

And once a kid does that a few times, the chemistry kicks in. All the nicotine pushers have to do it is to get kids to try enough times when they're young-- then they're likely customers for life.

[beevul]

172. If you're referring to nicotine via combusted commercial tobacco...

If you're referring to nicotine via combusted commercial tobacco, you'd be right.

Nicotine from a combustion related "big tobacco" product, as you've been repeatedly told and chosen to ignore, does NOT effect people the same as nicotine from a source without MAOIs.


It would be nice if you quit proceeding from the false assumption that they're the same thing, in at least one of these threads.

[pnwmom]

173. Where's the FDA approved research that proves that claim is right?

It doesn't exist. There was no research submitted to the FDA that shows that the nicotine in e-cigs is any less addictive than the nicotine in tobacco products.

Why? Because a few years ago, one of the major e-cig manufacturers sued the FDA for the right to have e-cigs positively classified as a tobacco product, which exempted them, as a tobacco product, from having to produce the safety and efficacy data that would normally be required for marketing a drug.

But even if it were carried out, it makes no sense. From everything we already know, nicotine is nicotine. It is addictive no matter what dispenser it is sold in.

[beevul]

190. Blah blah blah.

One can easily see, in this or many other threads, that your criteria for "standards" are one sided.


Wheres your research that says that e-cigs ARE harmful enough that they need be regulated for public use?

That's right. There isn't any.

But you take that position none the less.

"From everything we already know, nicotine is nicotine. It is addictive no matter what dispenser it is sold in."

Whos "we"? You keep showing those of us that DO know, that you really don't know anything about this subject matter at all, other than what the "sky is falling" advocacy journalism pieces tell you, which you swallow whole and without question.

But go ahead, keep thinking that posters which disagree with you - which is almost every poster that posts in your various e-cig threads - are all shills for big tobacco.


A lot people usually take that as a sign, that their beliefs need better alignment with reality.

Others, not so much.

[pnwmom]

191. You want me to give you research showing that nicotine is harmful? Forget it.

That's well established scientific fact.

[beevul]

192. I want you to show evidence that my use of it is harmful to YOU. N/T

[pnwmom]

193. It isn't because I'm never going to get near you. n/t

[ohheckyeah]

178. Actually, Phillip Morris

developed a smokeless cigarette years ago. They had a big convention at the hotel where I was working and were handing out samples to people. They never caught on.

I don't really care who makes the e-cigs...what difference does it make? You know what kept me from buying cigarettes as a teenager? Something called PARENTS.

[CBGLuthier]

100. Big Tobacco is laughing at people like you who think they give a shit how you take it

Big tobacco is quite quite happy to sell their product in vape form. The joke is on those who vape and think they are safer.

[Glitterati]

103. The only problem is....

there's no "tobacco" in vape form. Seems the joke's on you.

[pnwmom]

113. Big tobacco doesn't care what's in it, as long as they can addict people to it.

And with nicotine, that's easy.

[Glitterati]

115. ROFL, I guess that argument will work IF they ever bother

Seriously, you should read your own links to your supposed "proof." Reading is fundamental.

[pnwmom]

121. I have to thank you, Glitterati.

I was afraid this OP would quickly sink. But thanks to your very active posting, you've kept it at the top of the pile and it's had more than 1,000 views.

[Glitterati]

123. Well, hell, yeah.....

It's nice to be able to provide real FACTS to prevent your hysteria from growing!

[pnwmom]

125. Oh right. You finally had a post with a source. Congrats. n/t

[Glitterati]

127. I posted many you worked diligently to ignore

over the last 3 days.

Hey, so what's your niece selling in the mall kisok instead of ecigs?

[frustrated_lefty]

135. Funny how

there's so little concern about the message we're sending to kids through marijuana legalization.

[RandiFan1290]

136. Yeah, Charlotte Figi and many other kids are getting the message

Thank goodness!

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/

[Waiting For Everyman]

138. Where is one word about known harm to anyone?

I still haven't seen that yet anywhere.

I read the whole article which was a waste of time. There is not one fact in it. It's a whole lot of hearsay by people who clearly know nothing about vaping. The main point of it...

So teen use might be under-reported because of a misnomer. You don't say! Well whoopeedoo!

So... what conclusion are we to draw from this... the inference is something like this... Instead of 10% as reported, it might even be 11%, or maybe even 12%! Who knows, it might be as high as 15%!!! OMG, and somebody got the CDC to actually say that the number could be higher than 10% because of the word choice! WOW!!!! And the harm to go along with that huge revelation was... crickets, not a peep about that. Talk about a puff piece!



I'll tell you what... even if the claims made were true, which I doubt but still wouldn't be a big deal, if kids are spending their money on the type of devices described in the article (which would be expensive for them considering the limited amount of nicotine and number of puffs they're getting), then that is money they will not be able to buy crack with, or something worse. And you know too, people can vape and drive just fine, so I'd be a little more worried about kids drinking and driving. All things considered, I think if kids' "get high dollars" are being diverted to ecigs, that is not such a bad thing really.

I want to see the Nannies properly regulate and tax guns before they come after yet another harmless substance of choice. Maybe if all that energy and money that goes into harassing smokers and now vapers went into gun control, it might get somewhere.

On the list of threats to life, ecigs, or vape pens, or hookahs, or whatever you want to call them, are way down the list of things to be concerned about.

Very frankly, I think it's pretty reprehensible to try to put fear into people about something that could very well save their life, or that of someone they know. The anti-eciggers' actions are not cost-free, you know. But there isn't much of a sense of responsibility about that, I notice.

It just might be, that other people do know what's best for them better than you do.


***Oh and, btw just a reminder that to date Big Tobacco has 1% of the vaping market.

(And about the use of the term "hooked on" in your headline, oh please! Get a grip! I want to see some credible case studies before I'll believe that is happening. I'm a heavy vaper, and my craving for an ecig is about the same as for a cup of coffee after a few hours. It's nothing like cigarettes.)

[Bonobo]

139. Better than them being hooked on cancer causing cigarettes.

At least SOME of us think so.

[pnwmom]

140. Better that they not get duped into being hooked on nicotine in the first place.

It's one thing if they deliberately choose to take that risk. But if you read the article, you'll see that many of the kids think that flavored vape pens don't contain nicotine and are different, and safer, than e-cigs.

In fact, another DUer was arguing the other day that the flavored kind didn't contain nicotine. Apparently it's a fairly common misconception.

[Bonobo]

141. We will never know how many of them would have sought out cigarettes.

Yes, better to be addicted to nothing. BUT it is a million times better than being hooked on cigarettes.

[pnwmom]

142. So, we can at least agree that the pens should be labeled if they contain nicotine?

And that they shouldn't be sold to children? Because minors in many states can legally buy nicotine dispensing vape pens.

[Bonobo]

143. Absolutely. nt

[ohheckyeah]

180. One DUer argued that the flavored kind

don't contain nicotine so its a common misconception? WTF? Really.

[pnwmom]

182. No, I didn't think that based on my encounter with a single misinformed DUer.

But since then I've read about CDC researchers who say that, especially among young people, many are misinformed. Now I realize it is a common misconception, not just the error of a single very stubborn DUer.

[Kermitt Gribble]

149. Please stop spewing your hatred of e cigarettes.

These products have helped millions of people quit using tobacco products. Here's a hint: it's not all about "the children."

[pnwmom]

153. I agree. E-cigs should not be "about the children." So let's agree on a Federal ban

on the sale to minors -- as was requested last September in a letter from 40 State attorney generals to the FDA.

How about that?

[Kermitt Gribble]

154. I can agree on a federal ban on sales to minors.

The problem I have with these types of posts is equating e cigs to tobacco products, the condemnation of those who use e cigs, and the attempts to paint the variety of flavors as some marketing ploy to lure in children.

[pnwmom]

163. The e-cig manufacturers themselves insisted they be classified as tobacco products, so blame them.

They won a lawsuit insisting on being classified as a tobacco product, so they would be exempt them from having to submit to the FDA the kind of safety and efficacy studies other nicotine dispensers (gum and patches) had to go through; and yet they make claims both for safety and for utility in smoking cessation.

In many states, they are freely available for purpose by children, which is why 40 state attorney generals have signed a letter asking for Federal regulation.

Even looking at the design of the vape pens shows that many of these are being marketed to kids. (See the photos in the NYTimes article in the OP.)

[phleshdef]

167. I'm pretty sure nicotine is already regulated that way in most states isn't it?

I don't think minors can buy the gum or the patch.

[Live and Learn]

184. Or the pharmaceutical nicotine inhaler that works very similarly

to e-cigs (although much more poorly designed and much more expensive). Funny how those aren't being scrutinized and outlawed, isn't it?

[Live and Learn]

179. That is not true. They are not the same at all and a simple internet search

for knowledge would have informed you that the article was based on ignorance. An ignorance you seem intent on passing on.

[pnwmom]

181. There you are! The same person who argued this point last week -- apparently it doesn't

matter how many times and in how many ways you are exposed to the correct information, you cannot take it in.

But I'm going to answer this anyway, in case someone else might benefit, who would actually read the post.

E-cigs are the same as hookah-pens which are the same as vape pens which are the same as e-hookahs, etc., etc. The technology and the hardware is exactly the same. (See below)

Most of them, by whatever name, and whether sweet-flavored or not, contain nicotine; but it is possible to use them with a fluid not containing nicotine. Unfortunately, there is no regulation requiring nicotine labeling, so many high school students don't know what they're actually using. Especially when they just get handed a hookah by a friend at a party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/business/e-cigarettes-under-aliases-elude-the-authorities.html?action=click&module=Search

These devices are part of a subgenre of the fast-growing e-cigarette market and are being shrewdly marketed to avoid the stigma associated with cigarettes of any kind. The products, which are exploding in popularity, come in a rainbow of colors and candy-sweet flavors but, beneath the surface, they are often virtually identical to e-cigarettes, right down to their addictive nicotine and unregulated swirl of other chemicals.

SNIP

Marketers of e-hookahs and hookah pens say they are not trying to reach young people. But they do say that they want to reach an audience that wants no part of e-cigarettes and that their customers prefer the association with traditional hookahs, or water pipes.

“The technology and hardware is the same,” said Adam Querbach, head of sales and marketing for Romman Inc. of Austin, Tex., which operates several websites that sell hookahs as well as e-cigarettes and e-hookahs. “A lot of the difference is branding.”

[Live and Learn]

183. A hookah is used for smoking tobacco.

Here is a simple link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookah

E-cigs do not use tobacco.

Not alike at all. You are just plain wrong and your ignorance will in all likelihood wind up killing people by getting laws passed against a harmless substance and leading people back to tobacco. Which by the way, is just what the big tobacco firms want!

[pnwmom]

186. You are still living in the dark ages. You haven't even moved up to the 1960's, (or earlier)

when people started using hookahs to smoke pot, which is not tobacco.

Nowadays, the devices that are marketed and nicknamed as "e-hookahs" and "hookah pens" and "vape pens" are exactly the same devices as e-cigs, with the same technology and the same high odds of containing nicotine.

[Live and Learn]

188. Get real. They weren't used for hookah here first and those were called bongs.

Bongs and Hookah are very similar to smoking in that you light up the tobacco or marijuana although the bong and hookah pass the smoke through water vapor before it hits the lungs. This is not at all how an e-cig works. It is not the same technology and the more you post the more ignorant you appear on the subject to anyone that has any knowledge of it.

By the way, nicotine does not cause lung damage, in case you weren't aware of that either. It is the combustion (and resulting, actual smoke) that do.

[pnwmom]

189. Don't you understand the concept of NICKNAMES? What was called a hookah

back in the 20th century, is not the same as what is called a "hookah-pen" or an "e-hookah" today, except that vapor is involved. A hookah-pen IS just the same technology as an e-cig.

The vapor of an e-cig or e-hookah may contain, in addition to glycerin and nicotine, varying amounts of contaminants or preservatives, such as formaldehyde and nano-particles of metals. Those toxins are what can cause lung damage, not the water vapor.