FUCK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT!

[Drunken Irishman]

Fuck you for trying to do good! Fuck you for helping millions of people! Sure, a great deal of this country will be able to afford insurance, many of whom could not have ever afforded it before because of income or their preexisting condition, but because your plan only helps a good portion of the country, and not all, you should go fuck yourself!

And for good measure, fuck you Alan Grayson and Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinuch. Fuck you for supporting this bill and bringing relief to some - but not all - Americans.

[Tx4obama]

1. So, did you forget to add a 'sarcasm' thingie ?

Or is your OP part two of this thread here -----> http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024685964

[Cali_Democrat]

11. I'm sure the OP is part two

I'm really glad the OP brought up the fact that Grayson, Sanders and Kucinich supported the bill. If Warren was in Congress at the time, no doubt she too would have supported it.

Some PROGRESS is better than none. Is the ACA perfect? No, but it does represent PROGRESS and millions of people are better off because of it.

If we listened to some of the self-proclaimed progressives who love to stroke their own egos from behind a keyboard, there would be no progress and millions of Americans would have remained uninsured.

Never listen to them.

[Cha]

14. Yes, I am too glad DI brought up Grayson, Sanders, and Kucinich.. they can

spread their hate out.. or not. The ODS is strong.

[yuiyoshida]

25. I bet thats it...

SMH... really. Where is Skittles, when she is needed?

[rufus dog]

2. It boggles the mind

If I recall one person on that list had to be pulled in kicking and screaming. Not that he ever accomplished jack shit prior to landing a Fox gig.

[okaawhatever]

3. Can we at least substitute a couple of characters for the middle part of the word? I realize that

you're reacting to an incredibly vulgar op, but maybe you could take an even higher road and do the good ol' F$%K You. Just a request.

I do agree with the content. The ACA is a remarkable change to our health care system. Obama never ran on single payer. He and Congress gave us what they could get passed. It is up to us to improve on it if that is what we want. It's funny though, the right wingers have been screaming since the thing was passed that it would lead to single payer. I don't know why everyone on the left is freaking out about how it isn't single payer. Especially since, again, Obama did not run on single payer. He said he liked it, but it wouldn't work with the system we currently have.

[No Vested Interest]

8. +1 nt

[Hekate]

19. +2

[pa28]

4. Please find the nearest small paper bag and breathe inside at regular intervals.

Think about compassion and baby sheep or something.

[FredisDead]

5. Fuck you

Bill Pitt.

[Whisp]

17. Brad was always the smarter one. n/t

[Cha]

6. Is "Fuck you Mr President" the new "Thanks Obama"?

ObamaCare Pre-existing Conditions

No More Pre-existing Conditions as of 2014

http://obamacarefacts.com/pre-existing-conditions.php

[JoePhilly]

73. +1000

[Lady Freedom Returns]

161. I think so.

So many are so P.Oed over things that ARE helping us. I don't understand it.

[Cha]

163. But, it's a chance to Knee Jerk ignorant obscenities at Pres Obama so

they're all over it.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

166. All I know is that without ACA...

I would be in a world of hurt right now!

[Cha]

167. I'm so glad it's helping you, LFR!

[ErikJ]

7. You mean FUCK YOU KOCHS and KOCH-SUCKERS

ALL negative energy should be focused on them.

[awoke_in_2003]

9. I was about to PM Skittles...

to schedule your ass kicking. I am glad I held back

[Puzzledtraveller]

10. Like he wrote it.

He didn't even know what the ACA was or what was in it, nearly his entire first term was about selling the goods that had already been written long before most of American knew who Barack Obama was.

[Cha]

13. Yeah, you are grossly underestimating the President.

[JEB]

12. What would you forgive the President if

Michelle were very ill and was denied medicine for her care? A few harsh words?

[Whisp]

15. I think it was more like poor homework done rather than slam dunk denial.

Last edited Wed Mar 19, 2014, 10:40 AM - Edit history (1)

That thread had a lot of positive and helpful advice, logical, reasoned and experienced people were trying to Help but no --- shitting da pants is much more exciting for some - rather than actually Listening and accept that maybe someone else is smarter than you once in a while.

What a disgusting post that was. Talk about pieces of Shit!

[Mojorabbit]

122. Go back and read it. He had already done most of the work suggested. nt

[msanthrope]

147. Actually, as of this morning it seemed that Will had not filed a written appeal, nor obtained writte

concurrence from the doctor. Those steps are essential.

[Drunken Irishman]

16. I wouldn't blame the President...

1) It's not Obama's fault the insurance company fucked over his wife. It's the fault of the insurance company. You can blame Obama because of the ACA, but it also ignores the fact a million more people will be positively impacted for it for every one person who takes a hit. It's not perfect - but then, the old system screwed everyone over.

2) If you're going to blame Obama, blame the House and Senate, too. They voted for it. I don't see Mr. Pitt telling Bernie Sanders to fuck off. Why? He supported it. So did Kucinich. They could have protested it, told the President to go fuck himself, and introduce real universal healthcare. But they didn't.

[DiverDave]

24. mr pitt lol

nope, better not say it, dont want the flames.

[treestar]

95. Well put

Plus we don't have to take for granted that this represents a "fucking over." How do we know this case is so egregious for real? If it's that egregious, the appeal process will work. Everyone is subject to that system. Funny how it only negatively impacts ODSers. Maybe it's an NSA conspiracy against them.

[1StrongBlackMan]

162. Posted earlier ...

To this comment:

Well, for one, there haven't been any verified Obamacare horror stories that I've found. Yours might be the first. In which case you probably want to contact the Koch Brothers, because with all their millions, and all their searching, every time they find someone to put on TV to complain about Obamacare, turns out that person is either fictional, or else is not actually taking advantage of the available options. Some, for ideological reasons, others because they just didn't know. But those people, the ones hand-picked by the Koch Brothers to attack Obamacare, so far every one of them is actually better off post-ACA than pre-ACA.

Hmmm, problem solved ...

I would think the Koch Brothers would just love to hear a horror story from a widely read(?), leftist blogger. With the slightest of negotiation skills, WP's cooperation in their "ACA BAD" campaign could net more than enough to cover his wife's medication expense.

Unless, of course, this horror story devolves just like all the others ...

[Control-Z]

168. This!!

This is the thing to do. The Kochs would pay good money for a real Obamacare horror story, I'd bet. You might want to PM Will with your idea. He says he has tried everything else. He might as well give this a try.

[1StrongBlackMan]

169. But ...

well ... it would be hard to pretend claim liberal/progressive cred.

Then again, how quickly would the horror story fall apart? It took a little more than an hour on a highly sympathetic DU.

[Cha]

18. Kick!

[polynomial]

20. The anger expressed is awkward

Very much revealing persistence about the things Congress and the President does holding to what is wrong.

Health care has an extraordinary difference when applied to social pain. Especially in that Congress thinks there is a common sense to bailout debacles we all have to endure to help the few one percent. With that said for a comparison my anger for change looks toward the divine rather than my genitals.

Everyday my own thoughts ponder on that social insanity of bailouts, of course the few minorities black and white classified as poor now have something the one percent have always had. Talk about being mad because the poor start playing those one percent toys.

But, obviously some realize we the people have started to understand if you cannot get the trickle down economy to work, we the people might as well trickle up. However there is a whole lot more to trickle up if there is a stampede.

So buck up there fellow I feel your pain, heck sometimes when those political people use the expression were something said is like taking the oxygen out of the room might be a better metaphor to reset the government to rid those rascals.

This time my own apology is in order because that very same angry feeling just popped out when Nancy Pelosi said we don’t know what is in health care bill till after we voted for it. At first my thoughts exploded with anger. How could such a long time politician not know what the advantage or disadvantage is. But worse many long-time political journalist fall into the same class. It reveals something close to what the ancients call a paradox.

This is a political era a time when hundreds of millions of people can go online to view the lobby wobble of preferred legislation that occurred over the years. That political and business people actually did do sneaky things to make profiteering legal.

[Hekate]

21. When in danger or in doubt...

...run in circles, scream and shout.

The DU dramatics these days is over the top and round the bend so far it' s incalculable. Thanks for your OP but I vote with another poster for editing the title.

Cheers.

[joshcryer]

22. It's only whiney rich people complaining.

I am 100% certain of that at this point.

[ProSense]

29. You may have a point

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024689326

I mean, but...stocks!!!!

[joshcryer]

32. At least ACA haters will be conditioned to single payer costs.

Because healthy white males? They're going to fucking pay, hard, as well as everyone else in the higher scale income brackets. They will hate the fuck out of it. Before I retired at 36 (woot!!!!!!) my single payer monthly payment would've been a fifth of my paycheck as a single white unmarried male with good health. But, I made a lot of money. A lot. To the point where all I have to pay right now is property taxes (some income of course is necessary to pay them, so I'm not "technically" retired; I frankly don't even think I'll get Social Security since it is likely to collapse). So, it's just, hilariously pathetic that wealthy people complain about the ACA. Single payer is going to be a lot more redistributive for income payers.

Under the ACA? I am in poverty. My income is so low in my non-retired age bracket (barely sustainable) that I am literally in poverty. My healthcare in Colorado is absolutely free. Woot!

[steve2470]

47. josh, can you elaborate please ?

I'm not trying to be snarky, because I find you very intelligent and well-informed.

Wouldn't single payer be funded out of taxes only ? I admit ignorance of the mechanics.

You really did retire at 36 ? If so, congrats !

Right now my payment for my platinum-level policy is $1081 per month, which is MORE than my HOA fees or any other expense I have. It sucks...but buying a bronze policy is not a good idea IMHO unless one has no choice. I have so much empathy for the non-insured, the poor, and the underinsured. Truly in this country, if one does not have money, you're up the freaking creek with a crappy paddle and a leaky canoe.

[joshcryer]

50. Single payer would be a prograssive tax.

A very healthy, young, white (race is unimportant, but it plays into the metric) would be paying a lot more than any other bracket comparatively. There used to be a calculator but it's no longer available as far as I can tell. Employers, under single payer, take the brunt of the cost, but it'd still be costly for workers at my income bracket (50k or thereabouts).

Being retired is perhaps a misnomer for most people, I saved up the past decade, every penny I could, even if it meant eating rice and beans for months at a time. I literally had no life. But I can safely say I'm retired because I have land and a home and can live there the rest of my life without worrying, for the most part, about outside expenses (property taxes and whatnot not withstanding). I haven't yet adopted the "retired at 35 lifestyle" because right now I am living with my brother. And I luckily put some money in some stocks I was lucky as hell to choose wisely (TSLA), but as it stands now I am doing pretty good. I can't say my roadmap was some sort of American dream, I just saw some variables and chose them. Savings should be everyones priority though and not using credit, it's the only true way to get ahead, even if savings doesn't follow inflation, you will wind up with something other than nothing.

[dionysus]

88. isn't the prograssive tax the tax on the new legal weed in CO?

[loudsue]

23. I haven't seen such insensitivity since Free Republic stopped Andy from getting chemo

I already alerted on this thread, and got an e-mail that it had already been alerted on, but a jury voted to keep this trash 4-2. Is there not ANY decency in DU anymore?

Will Pitt, who is one helluva great DUer, is grieving and outraged because his wife has been denied critical medication by A FUCKING INSURANCE COMPANY. But the small minded on DU have won.

The rightwingers on DU have won. They even own the juries.

[TBF]

26. I agree - I am tired of folks who

claim to be dems coming on this site and blaming the victim, pushing austerity, and abandoning progressive principles.

They are on juries and they are in MIRT which is why the conversation on this site is slowly changing from being an opposition site to a pro-status quo site.

A friend of mine opined a couple of years ago that the parties were sort of changing roles, with democrats partnering with corporations to become more status quo while republicans went off the deep end. I wouldn't be surprised to see the current repugs implode - and I also wouldn't be surprised at this juncture to see a progressive party emerge to challenge the dems. 2016 could be very interesting indeed if that happens.

[joshcryer]

35. This OP is in response to William Pitt, who is unlikely to be impoverished.

In fact, Will Pitt is likely in the top 5%.

It is so difficult for me not to be dismissive of 99% of DU posters who aren't in the bottom 1%, totally impoverished, third world-like conditions in the US, which I lived for practically 2/3rds of my life. I could derail 90% of DU topics talking about their pathetic perspective, but I don't, because as I'm finally breathing, I see where they come from, and they are just ignorant. Plus, I think about the rest of the world and where they are thanks to US imperialism, and it becomes even more evident how lucky I am, and in fact, how lucky I was even being in extreme poverty in this country.


The GOP will not implode in 2014. Would it be that were the case. They're being very fucking low key, they're keeping shit at the minimal level of rhetoric possible. I've been following politics for some 25 years (assuming you'd consider the thoughts of 10 year old), and this is the "calmest" I've ever seen in my life. no polarization, just, "vote GOP, we'll fix stuff." It's seriously surreal.

[WilliamPitt]

38. *snarf*

I work for a website. My wife works retail part-time.

Yeah, we're swimming in cash.

[joshcryer]

41. NH's progressive medication subsidies should cover you.

I saw your post on my phone and thought it was fucked up. Then I googled the options you have. They are enormous. You should be lucky to be in NH. There are southern states that have none of them. You think you're fucked? Fuck, it's a joke. GOP controlled states who didn't sign up with Medicare expansion? Those people are fucked.

If the subsidies don't cover you, sorry, you clearly fall out of any reasonable poverty income range (hey, I know what it is, it's literally 15x what my impoverished mom gets).

[tblue37]

72. Not snarking--but everyone seems to confuse Medicare and Medicaid, or at least to typo

a switch in their DU posts, so I am just pointing out that I think you mean Medicaid expansion.

[loudsue]

115. Joshcryer, I AM in one of those souther states, but that doesn't mean I'm as cold as the repukes

who live here. A decent person doesn't try to beat up on people in other places who are in similarly bad situations. Your lack of true compassion, and your willingness to elevate a policy that is corporatist because your fan club demands it, labels you, in my opinion.

[joshcryer]

141. Huh?

Who am I beating up on? The situation sucks but at least in NH there are options, that's all I'm saying.

[Adrahil]

69. I'm top 5% income...

... and I think Will Pitt's post was disgraceful.

[TBF]

78. Of course you do -

I don't find it disgraceful to be upset about not being able to obtain health care/meds whether or not one is currently paying for health insurance.

What I do find disgraceful is folks blaming the victim and telling him to "look harder for solutions".

The obvious solution: we take the profit motive out of health care.

[24]SINGLE PAYER NOW.[/24]

[Adrahil]

80. OK....

I'm all for advancing the ball on this subject, but it takes some political sense to get through this.

Whatever you think of the end result, Obama has pretty much cashed in all his political capital to get even this relatively weak solution.

I want to remind you that even this relatively weak-sauce effort BARELY got through a congress controlled by the D's.

And you folks think he could have gotten single payer through?

That's delusional.

Is this solution perfect? No.

Is it even very good? No.

but it's a a HELL of a lot better than than getting nothing, which is what we would have gotten if we had insisted on single payer.

Let's take the victory, own it, and work to improve it.

[TBF]

87. Yes I know the script -

and we need to work on our methods. The billionaires are not afraid of us and that is dictating policy. That needs to change.

[Adrahil]

92. That doesn't change by playing right into their hands.

WE need to change minds by showing them that the hysterical nonsense form the right is just that. UNTIL we do that, we'll just keep losing to their Citizens United-fueled propaganda machine.

The think-method will not do it. We need actual victories for that.

The ACA is not our ideal solution. Hell, it's not even GOOD solution. But it's a start, and that's something we've been trying for for 100 years. We need to be smart enough to recognize that and build on it, not shit all over the folks who made it happen.

[TBF]

96. We have different thoughts

about methods. And that's ok.

While we work on the legislation (what you are talking about), we need to work on the protesting end (you know, the Occupy etc that has been disappeared).

I absolutely agree that we are better with ACA than we were a year ago. But that just means we need to work harder on the protesting end to put the pressure on ...

Whenever Obama says "make me do it" that is exactly what he is saying, but for some reason people get confused about what that means. I think they are too young - but I am older and remember when people actually had strikes etc. It is the only way change happens when you are up against status quo.

[loudsue]

110. Then you are one 5% person who is going on ignore.

I hope you end up in the bottom 5% soon, so you will have a change of attitude. I would say change of "heart", but that is obviously lacking altogether.

[TBF]

75. Attacking the victim

is obviously the response of the status-quo in this thread - whether one labels themselves as dem or repug.

Why is that?

Will Pitt's economic status, whatever it may be, is not the point. In fact, if anything, it makes his point stronger. If those in the top 5% (whether we are discussing this country or the world at large) are fighting to get needed meds, then imagine how bad it is for the other 95%.

[joshcryer]

143. The top fucking 5% are not 'victims.'

Those people will be paying a lot more if we raised the SS cap. They'd be complaining then too.

You don't have to "fight" in NH to get prescriptions, there are so many avenues it's a joke.

No wonder we're fucked if the 5% elicit such sympathy over non issues.

[TBF]

145. You must've missed the part

of the sentence where I talked about the 95% who don't have a voice at.all.

Right now we all know that the top 1/10th of the top 1% is hoarding the money globally. I will not be drawn into a war of 92nd% vs. 12th% or any other variable in order to uphold the status quo.

Bottom line: The 85 Richest People In The World Have As Much Wealth As The 3.5 Billion Poorest

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-richest-people-in-the-world-have-as-much-wealth-as-the-3-5-billion-poorest/

Capitalism is enabling this behavior and it needs to stop. We workers need to stop it. We have the numbers to do it if we focus and stop getting drawn into the "but you make .10 an hour more than me so I hate you" arguments. That only benefits the wealthiest.

[840high]

91. If Will was

swimming in cash -I doubt he would be so worried and angry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. You think all press works for the beltway establishment press?

As much as Mr. Pitt and I don't like each other, and never read him or his magazine anymore, his outfit is far from establishment and far from well paid.

Jesus age, by your logic I should add a few zeroes to my ledger!!!!

STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!!

Oh and one important clarification, he is an editorial writer, I am a reporter, this is a distinction people no longer understand.

[loudsue]

113. Thank you, TBF. I'm sick of it too.

Another similar post with a little more colorful language below got "hidden" by a jury...the same jury that let this crap OP stay in the forum.

[morningfog]

27. You must not malign the President. It causes fear, anger, hate and the vapors.

[Bobbie Jo]

86. ?

That makes absolutely no sense.

[Cha]

159. It's an ignorant way of saying.. it's okay use malicious venom "fuck the used car salesman..

fuck him from my heart and soul " Little cheerleaders cheering it on rah rah rah.

[loudsue]

117. That is clear. And it brings out those who probably supported his mentor, Joe Lieberman, too.

It is enough to make you

[ProSense]

30. "Is there not ANY decency in DU anymore?"

People can empathize and many people are suffering and being helped by Obamacare.

Faux outrage about "decency" when "Fuck you, Mr. President, you piece of shit used-car salesman" is acceptable because someone is uninformed is beyond ironic.

Anyone person, even if he/she were completely clueless about the law, could have found out that the President has nothing to do with the what drugs an insurance company decides to cover.

For someone informed to make that claim and then resort to vile name calling is odd.

[seveneyes]

37. There was no excuse to allow insurance companies to deny drugs

Obama and company are to blame for not including in their law that doctors decide which drugs to prescribe, not the insurance industry. You can not spin the fact that it was a mistake to get in bed with the insurance companies.

Killing patients, rather than healing them, can not be spun in a positive light.

[ProSense]

39. Your comment is fact-free. n/t

[ProSense]

56. No, and please, spare me. n/t

[loudsue]

111. The fact that that post was hidden by a jury is proof positive

about what has happened to DU. We have been so infiltrated that nobody has a liberal voice anymore. The establishment responses have a voice, but the corporate dissenters get their posts deleted.

[Number23]

164. Have you noticed that you are super duper okay with personal attacks?

You are dismayed that a post that called a DUer a "good German" and a cheerleader was hidden?? You are just so upset that a post that calls President Obama a piece of shit used car salesman (or whatever that person's exact words were) was reviled by alot of people here and pretty well panned?

Are the personal attacks okay in your mind because it's the "good liberals" making them?

[cui bono]

136. What a cop out. It's his signature achievement!

It's "his" law! He (supposedly) wrote it. (before you play word games, yes I know he wasn't the one who actually wrote up the words that make the law)

You give Obama all the credit for no more denying pre-existing conditions and for women getting birth control coverage yet blame the insurance companies for denying necessary medication. How is that "coverage"? All that is is saying sure we'll take your money for a piece of paper that means nothing.

You can't have it both ways. You're simply following corporate America's lead in "privatizing the profits and socializing the losses" and modifying it to apply to credit/blame. Privatizing the credit, socializing the blame.

[Cha]

151. It's what a prepubescent does when they're having a temper tantrum.. reach for their favorite

whipping post and scream obscenities.

And, then his little fans try to deflect and use any excuse possible that it's alright for angerageman to show what an ignorant hothead he really can be.

More deflection.. "we're heartless" because we don't condone his ugly hateful hissyfits .. I call bullshite on their "shaming".

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. Sickening isn't it?

I'm with you.

[woo me with science]

44. It's disgusting. DU now functions as a propaganda outlet.

It's deliberate, and it's despicable.

States that build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines:

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

The influx will continue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4216987

[ProSense]

59. "DU now functions as a propaganda outlet."

Says the person posting a "wall of blue links" about NSA surveillance in a thread about health care.

[truebrit71]

60. Oh the irony....

....coming from the High Priestess of endless blue links....

[ProSense]

62. LOL!

"....coming from the High Priestess of endless blue links...."

...the "irony" is that you apparently only like "blue links" when they're anti-Obama.

[truebrit71]

63. LOL!

You obviously don't understand irony...

[ProSense]

65. I understand it a lot more better than you.

[Number23]

165. Okay, you just nailed that one. That was classic

[loudsue]

118. And we have been completely infiltrated.

It becomes more clear every day.

[OmahaBlueDog]

55. I have no love of FR, but explain how bloggers stopped someone's medical care?

...just wondering.

[dionysus]

93. DUer\activist Andy Stephenson was dying of cancer... and had no money to pay. DU and other outlets

raised a LOT of money (50k, maybe? it was long ago) to help pay for his cancer treatments.

Freepers caught wind, and declaring it a scam (even so far as calling Andy "Scamdy&quot , they contacted paypal or whatever place the money was raised on, crying fraud, and got the funds frozen for some time.

This in effect delayed the release of the money long enough it could very well be said the Freeper scum had a hand in his death.

[Inkfreak]

152. Wow, that's pretty damn horrendous. (nt)

[OmahaBlueDog]

179. I've done some reading, and I'm of two minds

I'm sure you've seen this: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_elizabet_050714_the_stalking_of_andy.htm

Part of me goes along with the logic presented in the article: spiteful wingnuts hastened a man's death and heightened his suffering. It's despicable. Somebody should have been prosecuted for fraudulently presenting themselves as a hospital official to PayPal.

However....

Part of me says that the method used to raise the money was ill advised: Look, I get it. Somebody tells you that they need money, and time is of the essence. Life & death is at stake. Here's the thing -- if we're talking about a DUer who needs a grand to get home; get to a funeral; get out of an abusive house, and 200 people kick in with $5 -- that is one thing. Trying to raise 50 Gs and not having some kind of trust set up at a bank or a 501c(3) is another. $50K is a lot of money, and having an impartial third party be made aware of the situation and allowing them to act as a go-between protects the beneficiary and the benefactors.

JMHO.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

67. Why are certain posters allowed to break the rules? nt

[UTUSN]

102. Excellent, long-standing point. n/t

[loudsue]

171. Well, if you'll notice, there are a bunch of post numbers on this thread that have disappeared.

The juries don't just hide them, they "eliminate" them altogether. There are some things liberals CANNOT SAY on democratic underground.

[frazzled]

68. No, the indecency was started in the original thread

by Mr. Pitt, who--because he didn't have the sense to check formularies before purchasing a plan as one is instructed to do, and with no explanation of specific medications or previous insurance--let forth a great, foul, stinking, curse-laden invective against the president of the United States.

He should be embarrassed for himself, both for his lack of diligence and for his inability to check his anger issues. Arguments like his that are nothing but childish outburst do nothing to promote a progressive agenda. NOTHING. They do the opposite. He's the one helping the right wingers.

And reaction against his intemperate, ill-considered outburst has nothing to do with a lack of sympathy for his wife. Indeed, I feel sorry for her: her illness can't be helped at all by any of this.

[JNelson6563]

109. Well said.

Pitt using his wife's illness to cry for attention on the DU and fling shit at Obama. Two big crowd pleasing behaviors here.

Sorry for Pitt's wife, on several levels.

Julie

[loudsue]

121. Oh please, Julie.

That is low. Even from you.

[demmiblue]

148. Beyond low.

That is one of the nastiness things I have read on DU.

Some of the people posting in this thread are just shameless and cruel. I really am shocked.

[JNelson6563]

186. Wow! You *know* me? I don't know you. Interesting.

Have seen your DU name before, couldn't tell ya about a single post from you though. I don't follow such things all that closely.

Now, to step away from that nonsense (bait) back to somewhat the subject at hand...let's get one thing straight, I completely empathize with anyone who needs medical treatment but cannot get it. I am one of those people. I have a chronic situation that I have been dealing with for 8 years now and will finally have insurance in effect in June. There have been times where I have felt utter despair...yes, I fully get it. (I certainly empathize with Mrs. Pitt on that level, along with others.)

I blame the insurance industry, big pharma as well as the medical community for all these ills. Every one of these groups all live very large and they do it by each taking their (generous) slice of the pie (each individual's health care being a pie). No one seems to have been able to do anything about any of this. Some have tried but the only one to make any progress at all has been Obama. He too could've added his name to the list of those who failed at any improvement by demanding a single payer system and dramatically flaming out. I think he did the smart thing in getting what he did. It is a start. Many will have insurance that didn't/couldn't. Many lives will be saved. Stories will come out, people will have experiences (their own or a loved one). This will be successful and people will want more improvements as the system progresses.

I think it's counter-productive to go all out with full screaming headlines, blaming Obama for anyone's particular healthcare hardship. Talk to/scream at/blame those who make it utterly impossible to even bring the topic of single payer to the table. Let's aim our ire at those who would take us all back to medieval times, not those who agree with us that we need to move forward. Once we get a majority of people who want to move forward, then we can fight about just how to do it--one thing at a time.

I read in other comments in this thread that you too are in similar situation as far as not being able to get what you need, medically speaking. I am sorry to hear this. I hope you know relief to your situation soon.

Julie

[1000words]

188. Yah ... that's the one that lands you on ignore

Long time coming.

[JNelson6563]

191. lolz You've been here 7 months.

Or have you...?

[loudsue]

120. I am in a similar situation to Will Pitt, so I know EXACTLY what he was talking about:

He said that he had only ONE CHOICE in health care provider in his area. I have the same situation: one choice. And because there is that one choice, I don't have another choice, under the rules.

Because his ONE CHOICE doesn't provide his wife's medication, he doesn't have insurance to cover his wife's medications. And it upset him....NO SHIT!!!! It would upset ANYONE who had heart enough to care for another human being!

And for YOU to accuse Will Pitt of not having sense???? You're kidding, right?

No he didn't embarrass himself. And it is the people who are worshiping Obama that are the childish ones. Is he better than McCain? HELL YES. Is he better than Hillary Clinton? HELL YES. Is he worth marching behind to the death? HELL NO!!!

[frazzled]

128. He was better off before the ACA?

To merit the kind of crazy-eyed rage he displayed, one would have to presume that, prior to the ACA he had some fabulous insurance where he lived that covered his wife's MS fully, including all her medications—and that the wicked president somehow personally obliterated all that wonderful health insurance.

I don't believe it for a second. I don't know where he lives, and I don't care. Perhaps his state is as much at fault as the evil president (not to mention the majority of Congress and the Supreme Court.) Even if there is one insurer in his area, there are a number of levels of plans they are required to offer. The man has anger management issues (believe me, I know: more than a decade ago he sent me a PM so threatening and nuts that it drove me away from this site for five years. I will never--ever--respond directly to one of his posts. Normally, I don't even read them. This one caused such a ruckus I broke my rule and peeked.)

[loudsue]

130. ...."and I don't care".... that says everything you needed to write.

You obviously DON'T CARE.

He posted to you, and because of that you left DU for five years, and HE IS THE ONE WITH ANGER ISSUES??? Five years? Really???

[Cha]

153. pitt got banned from DU for sending someone else a threatening PM.. Yeah,

bully anger is such a fucking gift.

you're not the one with the "anger issues"..

[JNelson6563]

175. Yep, I got a nasty-gram a few years back.

Serious anger issues with that one. Probably Obama's fault.

Julie

[Cha]

176. No doubt it's Obama's fault.. retroactively.

Julie~

[Cha]

185. I can see why you would have no patience for his rage..

more than most.

[treestar]

94. Sensitivity requires us to agree?

with anything, even the outrageously ridiculous blaming of the President for an insurance dispute?

Some people seem to think the President is their personal servant, and not limited in his powers of carrying out that duty.

That's how that post came off. Me, me. If I'm not 100% happy, no one else matters. And making it personal so as to avoid having to be called out on that issue, lest we be called "insensitive."

And none of it causes single payer to pass. And single payer bureaucrats might do the same thing.

I happened to have a minor procedure covered, and it would have cost me a lot. But maybe I should have done without it lest some other person on the planet not get the medication they want first thing. The rest of us be damned.

And the juries are owned by the ODSers, or certain people would have be TS'd long, long ago.

[Cha]

154. Some people think Pres Obama is their personal Whipping Post..

[sheshe2]

177. Maybe it is ...

Some people seem to think the President is their personal servant,

because he is black. Yessa master.

Maybe sadly.

You are right treestar, it was a meme post.

[City Lights]

98. !

[Mojorabbit]

127. Yes, the lack of empathy is breathtaking to behold. nt

[cui bono]

131. +1 I was the first to alert.

I think there is a lot of decency on DU, unfortunately there is a faction that acts like the Tea Party and they are loud and dedicated, they cheat (sockpuppets) when they get banned for bad behavior, they don't care about nuance or facts, they don't change their mind when presented with cold, hard facts, they attempt to swiftboat anyone who criticizes or exposes something negative about their idol... it's the exact same behavior. They even use right wing invented memes (ODS) against anyone who dares to offer valid criticism of their cherished leader. And the most creepy thing is they have teen zine type pic threads about him in their little bubble group. Oh, and of course they have a bubble group where they kick out people who post facts that they find too hard to digest.

[Logical]

28. Dramatic much? nt

[uriel1972]

31. There is something of a disconnect...

A certain someone is angry that another certain someone's SIGNATURE policy is killing the first someone's wife, as he sees it.

Like it or not the SIGNATURE policy of that certain someone looks awfully like it belongs to that someone and that that someone is responsible for it. So for anybody hurting because of that policy it is logical to blame the author of that policy.

The argument over the benefits of the SIGNATURE policy are moot as the policy is still killing the first someone's wife as he sees it. I understand the first someone's anger whilst it may be misplaced in the grand scheme of things, I fail to see how any compassionate person could fault the first someones rage.

Just take it as it is and let it flow.

[ProSense]

34. What a

"A certain someone is angry that another certain someone's SIGNATURE policy is killing the first someone's wife, as he sees it. "

...bizarre claim. The health care law has nothing to do with "killing" anyones "wife."

Drug formularies are not the President's decision. They existed before the ACA. They exist in Medicare Part D.

The one thing the ACA did do is introduce a new rule applicable to appeals.

Appealing Health Plan Decisions

The Affordable Care Act ensures your right to appeal health insurance plan decisions--to ask that your plan reconsider its decision to deny payment for a service or treatment. New rules that apply to health plans created after March 23, 2010 spell out how your plan must handle your appeal (usually called an “internal appeal”). If your plan still denies payment after considering your appeal, the law permits you to have an independent review organization decide whether to uphold or overturn the plan’s decision. This final check is often referred to as an “external review.”

http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/appeal/appealing-health-plan-decisions.html

[uriel1972]

42. Ahem...

May I point out the words "...as he sees it." I make no claim as the factual basis of the ACA and killing his wife, only that he sees it that way.
All I am asking is that others recognise that he is hurting and angry and lashing out as a result and it appears the ACA and it's proponent is his target, regardless of the objective truth in the matter and compassion rather than scorn may be the appropriate response.

[ProSense]

43. Well,

"All I am asking is that others recognise that he is hurting and angry and lashing out as a result and it appears the ACA and it's proponent is his target, regardless of the objective truth in the matter and compassion rather than scorn may be the appropriate response."

...given the pattern, the "lashing out" at the President seemed highly intentional. I mean, the poster isn't unfamiliar with the law or how insurers work. Bringing the President into it, and in such a vile way, is inexcusable.

[geek tragedy]

52. That belief is delusional, however, the ACA is not killing anyone. Not even the Koch brothers

peddle that bullshit.

[blindersoff]

107. a clarification on MS drugs

I have MS and am using one of the disease modifying drugs (not Aubagio, one of the injectibles). The comment about denying lifesaving medication to his wife is in my opinion a bit hyperbolic. And certainly blaming the President is not where the fault lies.

Disease modifying drugs in MS DO NOT save lives and not taking them does not kill a person. It truly is not known whether or not these drugs even work! For some they do and others not so much. At BEST, the DMD's give a person only a 30% better shot at not progressing in disease disability but often people who are on these drugs do progress in spite of being treated. Many people with MS do not take DMD's because that 30% perceived success rate is not reasonable given the cost of the drugs (without insurance coverage my Avonex would cost almost $4000/month).

I suggested to Will that he contact the drug manufacturer to ask about copay assistance. I have pretty good employer provided insurance but the cost went up when I switched policies in January. I got my cost down from $175/month to $10/month by dealing with the company. These manufacturers want people to take their drugs and so they have a vested interested in helping many of those who cannot afford to pay the exhorbitant cost.

It is probably more important to minimize the STRESS and anger around her than anything. Out of control emotions and stress can make MS worse even when on the drugs.

Sorry this got a bit off topic, but just wanted to give my perspective.

[Control-Z]

170. Thank you for your most reasonable post.

I hope Will takes your advice.

[Cha]

158. Yeah, excuse malicious ignorance because that "certain someone" needs a handy

whipping post. It's not ACA that's the problem.. it's the fucking insurance company.

[Iggo]

36. Aw. Somebody needs a hug.

[NCTraveler]

40. Obama is a one percenter.

He is one of the most powerful men in the world. He can give life and he can take life at a whim. Don't get so upset when someone says fuck you to him. I promise you that Obama will be ok as he does the speaking tour at $300,000 a pop. People get pissed when they get fucked in life. People get pissed when the system is set up in an unfair manner. Not one person will tell you that the ACA is set up in the best possible way or in a fair way. Not one person will tell you that the ACA doesn't fuck some people who need it most. Let people vent and don't take it so personal with respect to one of the most powerful men in the world. Your brothers and sisters at DU need your support. Obama, not so much. He is sitting on millions, is in charge of the most powerful military in the world and likes to use it, has an extremely cushy life ahead of him where he will never, at any point in time, wonder how he will afford healthcare. Let people vent. The loved ones and themselves depend on healthcare. They have no right to it, they have to fight for it. That in itself is enough to piss anyone off. If you think their words are directed at the wrong person, tell them you are sorry for their situation and understand that their situation is worse than anything the one percent will ever feel.

[LostOne4Ever]

45. That is not very good logic.

I have a family member who has been crippled by MS. She is end stage, can't walk, cant use her left hand, had strokes, and honestly has sooo many issues to deal that it would mentally break a lesser person.

This does not give me the right to lash out at a man who has done nothing but try to help millions of Americans get health insurance who otherwise could not afford it. Who has in no way hurt her or tried to screw her over.

Obama may be a 1%er but hes been trying to fix things and his actions have made things alot better for millions of people who could not afford medical insurance before. I am all for giving compassion to those who need it, but being in dire straights is no excuse for attacking someone who is trying to help.

[NCTraveler]

46. Being compassionalte towards a duer during a tough time....

over that of one of the most powerful people in the world makes perfect sense. Sometimes people just need to let go of some frustration. Wrong or right, just show some compassion. I promise you that Obama does not need your compassion or love as much as duers. Every single person here has lashed out at the wrong person at one point in time. It happens. People need to let go of their fear for Obamas emotions. He is a big boy and can handle it. Life gets frustrating sometimes, specially when one is talking life or death, let people vent. The ACA has left millions without health care. That is a fact. Many are pissed. Obama is at the top. A place he worked relentlessly to be at. Sometimes that is where the buck stops.

[LostOne4Ever]

49. I can be both compassionate

And defend someone who is trying to be a part of the solution and not the problem at the same time.

Just because Obama is at the top does not mean I am simply going to ignore someone attacking for no fault of his own....especially seeing as he worked so hard to get the PP-ACA passed.

Yes the law is not perfect....but even more would be without healthcare without it!!! That is a fact too. Why not blame the people who are actually at fault? The insurance companies, the republicans and the price gouging pharmaceuticals. There are plenty of villians to go around without attacking the man who is HELPING PEOPLE.

Just being at the top does not excuse people for attacking him unjustly and unfairly. He BUSTED HIS ASS to get that law passed and the buck does not stop there when the republicans and the special interest stole it.

[woo me with science]

48. It's unthinkable, isn't it.

This does not give me the right to lash out at a man...

Imagine Americans thinking they have *any* right to express anger at a politician, right here in the United States of America...

[LostOne4Ever]

51. You are mistaking the ethical principle with a legal one

It is a logical fallacy called equivocation.

You have the legal right to get mad at anyone you want. This does not mean your anger is justified.

[woo me with science]

54. That is, quite simply, garbage.

There is no ethical obligation not to express anger at a public servant. The obligation is to hold public servants accountable, especially when they are yielding to corruption and harming the people they were hired to represent.

The health insurance mandate in the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is an idea hatched in 1989 by Stuart M. Butler at Heritage in a publication titled "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans". This was also the model for Mitt Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_foundation#Policy_influence

Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans
http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/assuring-affordable-health-care-for-all-americans
Stuart M. Butler, Ph.D. October 1, 1989

Obama admin. secretly bargained away the public option
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251338777

When the DLC connections to the Koch Bros. became well known, they just rebranded the infiltration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4165556

When you hear "Third Way", think INVESTMENT BANKERS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024127432

GOP Donors and K Street Fuel Third Way’s Advice for the Democratic Party
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101680116

The Rightwing Koch Brothers fund the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

Same companies behind the GOP are behind the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1481121

[LostOne4Ever]

58. There is no ethical reason

to get mad at a public servant who in no way shape or form did you any wrong.

He did not yield to corruption either. He got the PP-ACA passed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. You mean a republican program

The healthcare system is a mess, continues to be a mess, the solution is not a market place. He removed from the table what the people he supposedly works for wanted.

We have no say, and all this is an illusion. I do not blame the top layer of the executive. I blame a corrupt system that was captured by the extremely wealthy that is far from serving the people. We have been here before, I have my doubts we the people will be able to recapture it.

[loudsue]

123. I missed some of those posts the first time! Thank you for those!

And I agree 100% with what you are saying.

[Autumn]

57. Who decides if anger is justified? You?

[LostOne4Ever]

61. Generally the person making the argument

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/justifying

Tell me again why hes mad at Obama? Because the Insurance company isn't covering his medication? That is a reason to be mad at the insurance company...

[Autumn]

70. In that case Will's anger is justified.

It's a product he is having to pay for, they don't cover his wife's medications that she desperately needs. He has every right to be angry. Not everyone is an insurance expert and would know to look for the formulary for prescriptions.

[LostOne4Ever]

76. And what has any of that to do with Obama?

Nothing.

Did Obama cause her white blood cells to attack her nerves? Did Obama deny the payments?

He has a right to be angry. But not at Obama FOR THAT.

No more than I have a right to be mad at Obama that my mom has the same exact disease that has left her unable to walk and is making it hard to breath and talk.

No. BLAME GOD DAMN JOE LIEBERMAN. BLAME THE MONEY GRUBBING PHARMACEUTICALS THAT CHARGE UPTO AND OVER $300 A SHOT! YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE MAD AT THEM. BLAME THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHO MADE SURE MEDICARE HAD A GIGANTIC COVERAGE GAP THAT HURT THE PEOPLE WHO NEEDED HELP THE MOST!!! BLAME THE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE GONE OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HURT PEOPLE TO KEEP THEIR FILTHY MONEY!!!!

I AM FURIOUS WITH ALL OF THEM!!!!

But to blame the man who made insurance affordable for millions who otherwise couldn't afford it is wrong. You keep on ignoring that.

[Autumn]

81. Obama, a man who said the bill I sign MUST contain a public option, is where the

buck stops. A man who was against the mandate. A man we voted for because we believed his rhetoric and that he would fight for what he said he would . Who allowed the insurance companies a seat at the table? What's affordable to you may not be affordable to someone else.

I can't get into the protect a "helpless" politician mode so I see no harm in Wills rant. You on the other hand see harm in it. We just disagree and really all that angst just can't be good for a person.

[LostOne4Ever]

99. I dont mind agreeing to disagree

But if a person attacks obama they should at the very least do so for a valid reason.

Obama made promises he could not keep. I can sit here and argue that point but at least that is a reasonable argument for being angry...4 years ago. It ignores political realities and that getting SOMETHING passed is better than nothing, but okay. Lets agree to disagree there.

HOWEVER, that was not a reason he listed in his post (which I wasn't replying to anyways). His reason was because of the insurance company did not cover his wife. Obama has NOTHING to do with that.

I do have a problem with blaming someone who did nothing wrong, especially when they are helping people. I also have an issue with blaming someone who is trying their best for factors beyond their control. I REALLY have a problem with people using MS as a reason to attack someone who has helped who knows how many MS patients.

Call me crazy but I think people should get credit when they do good and blame only when they do bad. Its a good way of keeping the people who are making a positive difference around to keep on fighting and discourage the bad guys. So yeah I think it is harmful and needs to be called out when people attack the good guys. I make no apology for that. If that makes me angsty so be it.

Though I don't think that is the term you meant.

[Autumn]

103. Your first sentence and I need go no further,

Will Pitt has a very valid reason for being angry. Have a nice day

[phleshdef]

137. He also said the bill had to have a lot of other things that it DOES have.

As a matter of fact, it has the vast majority of the things he called for.

And having a public option wouldn't necessarily solve Will's problem. Single payer systems in the UK and Canada present some of these same issues with coverage of very expensive medication. Just because a system is public and not private doesn't mean its perfect.

[ProSense]

77. Seriously,

"Not everyone is an insurance expert and would know to look for the formulary for prescriptions."

...claiming that a journalist who has been in the position of having to deal with insurance companies before the law went into effect is uniformed about how insurers cover drugs is not a good excuse.

Let's say someone truly doesn't know that the President has nothing to do with formularies. After learning the facts, that person would remove the vile attack. That was not the case. The attacks continued, and were clearly personal and intentional.

[Autumn]

82. Seriously. Maybe he just left the "vile attack" to piss you off

I think I probably would.

[ProSense]

84. Maybe, but the excuse is still a weak one. n/t

[Whisp]

85. It's like if I am angry with my neighbour

and I go to the nearest mall and pick on the first clerk I find. instead.

makes no bleedin' sense at all.

[LostOne4Ever]

100. I know right?

You said that sooo much better than me. Thank you!

[Cha]

174. Thank you, LostOne4Ever for being rational on this subject.. lots of Wealthy People are not

cold hearted bastids like the kochs.

It doesn't matter how much money someone has if they're trying to help others.. you're right; it wasn't very good logic.

[Cha]

156. Yeah, don't give a shite when someone uses the President as their personal whipping post

because they're too damn ignorant to make the distinction of what's really going on.

Yes, do encourage malicious ignorance.. because hey.. why be smart and act like you have a fucking clue?

[hfojvt]

64. I am not sure if he IS trying to do good.

I am not seeing the effort even.

On other issues, I see him blatantly lying.

On the ACA, I am still ambivalent. It does some good things and some bad things.

I wanted TWO basic things from the ACA.

I wanted NO mandate, and
I wanted a public option.

Generally looks to me like I got the opposite of what I wanted, so I am generally not pleased about it.

[Adrahil]

66. How can you have universally available health insurance with no mandate? NT

[hfojvt]

74. I dunno

candidate Obama seemed to think you could.

And I could give a crap about health insurance.

Nobody needs that. Ever.

Health insurance is simply ONE method for delivering health CARE. And not a very good method at that.

Butterfinger candy bars are universally available, because everybody in this country can walk a mile to a gas station and buy one for $1.5 or so. Fortunately, so far, there is no mandate to do so every week.

[Adrahil]

79. <sigh>....

WTF is your analogy supposed to mean? Spell it out for for me, 'cause I ain't gettin' it.

If you have a system based on health insurance, as this is, you can't do it with a risk pool slanted towards only the biggest risks, because insurance is about shared risk. (with profit on top for the for-profit companies)

If you want to propose an "everybody in, nobody out" national health service, I'm all ears, but that IS essentially a mandate.

[hfojvt]

101. it is not "essentially" a mandate

to have people pay taxes.

I pay a certain amount of city taxes. Every year on Explosion fortnight, the city puts on a stupid fireworks show to celebrate our Chinese heritage or something.

That's one thing, but it is not quite the same as the government requiring everybody to buy a certain amount of fireworks every year.

I just do not, and never will care for that kind of legislation. First, to force a supposedly free citizen to spend his/her money on something they do not want. And second, to clearly subsidize a certain industry.

Then too, I think there is something drastically wrong with "a system based on insurance".

Finally, until I was 42 years old I had no health insurance. Do I think it would have been a great benefit to me to have FORCED me to buy health insurance when I was 40? Or 35? or 30?

Well, why didn't I have health insurance? Because I was young and thought I was invincible?

No, because I was young and did NOT have a GOOD job which paid for health insurance. Something that finally changed after I turned 42.

I mean, what, I am supposed to have a bunch of people who have good jobs wag their fingers at me and say "you need to join the risk pool, you free riding mooch you".

[phleshdef]

139. Yes. It is.

Mandate: an official order or commission to do something.

Taxes are mandated for those that meet the criteria that requires payment of said taxes. End of story. Taxes are a mandate. You don't get to decide what the word "mandate" means, it already had an accepted definition well before you came along.

[hfojvt]

146. taxes are a mandate to pay taxes - period

for the government to come in and demand, after I have paid my taxes, a bunch of control over my other expenses.

Well, THAT is an infringement of my liberty that I do NOT, and NEVER WILL, support.

[phleshdef]

149. Ok, so you were wrong, so its time for big government boogey man rhetoric.

**spooky fingers**

[hfojvt]

184. so now I am convinced

that not only does the mandate suck
but so do its defenders

[phleshdef]

138. And candidate Obama was wrong and he admits to that. You have to have some kind of mandate...

...whether it be in the form of people paying premiums or people paying taxes that support a government run program, a mandate to pay is a mandate to pay. You can't have universal healthcare of any sort without forcing the financially able to pay into it one way or another.

What other methods are there aside from some type of health insuring mechanism? Even a single payer system is still, at its core, an insuring mechanism.

[hfojvt]

144. "the financially able" is a key item there

In 2011, before I got promoted, I did not make enough money to pay Federal Income taxes. Pay for it with a progressive income tax, and the funding mechanism is far different than a mandate which falls more heavily on the working class.

Second, at least if there was a public option along with the stinking mandate, the option would be available to NOT give your money to insurance bastards.

Bottom line is that I, and perhaps others, voted for a candidate who said "no mandate".

So for some reason, some of us are not happy about the mandate.

[phleshdef]

150. A tax is still a mandate, by definition. You support a mandate whether you want to admit it or not.

If you didn't make enough money to pay federal income tax, you are exempt from the mandate.

[Comrade Grumpy]

116. Simple: You get access to health care by being born.

You pay for it with your taxes during your working life.

[phleshdef]

140. Paying taxes = a mandate.

[OwnedByCats]

180. The difference is I think

a mandate to pay insurance companies, which is a profit system, is the problem. A mandate to pay taxes into a nonprofit system, the government (like universal care in countries like the UK), is much more palatable. I wouldn't mind paying into a system that it's only job is to make sure everyone gets the care they need, and that cost is affordable for everyone. I don't like paying into a system where their job is to get out of covering as much as possible so their fat cats get their big salaries and bonuses, at still a high cost for most people.

I lived in a country with universal care for 10 years, I know what it's like and it was fantastic! That is what made me absolutely loathe insurance companies. I realize that ACA is better than nothing, I realize that single payer probably wouldn't have passed, but I didn't see Obama fight for it and I would have respected that a lot more than giving up the fight before it even started.

I guess it's hard for me because I saw how incredibly well it all can be done and confused as to why we can't do it. I know the republicans hate on the idea and that's part of the problem. I heard them say how horrible it is in the UK and so many who never visited, much less lived there think it's evil because republicans say so - they are being fed a line of shit! It's not perfect, but I never saw anything happen there that I haven't seen happen here ten fold. Nothing will be perfect - but at least over there, people aren't going bankrupt or not getting care at all because they can't afford premiums/copays/deductibles. I also never ran into a problem where they wouldn't pay for my medication that were of me and my doctor's choosing and some of them were pretty expensive - and to be honest, not life saving or essential. I never saw other people being denied either, but I can't say for certain this doesn't happen at all. I just never experienced it myself.

I hope ACA leads to something like what other countries have done, but it don't hold out a lot of hope at this time.

[phleshdef]

181. For sure.

But at the end of the day, all I'm saying to the folks I'm responding to is that you have to pay into the system one way or the other in order to have any kind of universal system. The problem is, our system was ALREADY so entrenched in this web of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, medical equipment companies, high priced hospitals, high priced doctors, etc. You can't just tear that little empire down all at once, because of its entrenchment and you have to work with it to a certain degree. I don't say that because I think that's a good situation to be in, its most certainly not. But it IS the situation we are in.

[OwnedByCats]

183. No, you're right

That is a problem, a pretty big one. It's too bad our country didn't have the foresight to nip this in the bud before it got so out of control. But there you have it, too late now. Sadly I don't have any bright ideas on how to fix this, no idea where we go from here. A little bit at a time I suppose, as long as the progress we have doesn't get torn down by the other side.

I guess what I was trying to say is I don't expect "free" healthcare and I don't think hfojvt wants that either. I just think that those of us against the mandate wouldn't mind a tax mandate that is affordable for all and can be used by all, because if imposed by the government who is not out for profit would be more successful in helping everyone. But I totally get what you mean about the whole empire.

[steve2470]

71. yea, the ACA completely sucks because....

my son is on my plan until he's 26.

That really sucks. Let's repeal the ACA and go back to what we had before.



MEDICARE FOR ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vashta Nerada]

83. What a horribly insensitive post.

[LanternWaste]

89. I used to make passive-aggressive call-outs too...

I used to make passive-aggressive call-outs lacking the courage of specifically stating what I actually meant too-- and then denied I was acting cowardly by rationalizing it was something other than what it obviously was.

I eventually grew up and stopped doing that...

[uppityperson]

90. I find it helps to use the sarcasm tag, even when it is obvious it is, like this post

Too many will read the post without comprehending past "fu" missing "for helping millions of people" part.

[UTUSN]

97. R#57 & K n/t

[mfcorey1]

104. Let the church say Amen and thank God it's sarcasm!

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. Your insensitive and lack of humanity

While not surprising (the POTUS can do no wrong), boggles the mind.

This is one that an unrec button is needed.

Free clue, the ACA is far from perfect, and the US medical system continues to circle the drain. We are still number 37 in outcomes. France and Italy, both have single payor, are number one and two respectively.

[msanthrope]

112. And France and Italy both have formularies. This isn't an ACA issue at all. It's a formulary

issue that existed before the ACA, and will exist after the ACA. Medicare, the UK, Canada---all have formularies.

The issue is pretty simple....Will's wife wants a drug not on the formulary. There's a process to appeal a denial (and new rights under the ACA for the appeal) but this doesn't involve the President, or the ACA except tangentially.

We've now been treated to two threads blaming the President---and so far, Will apparently hasn't filed a written appeal.

[KamaAina]

114. Fuck you, repukes and DINOs!

For making real Dems weaken the ACA so that crap like some of our DUers are experiencing is still legal!

[woo me with science]

119. +1000000. Yup. Fuck purchased government. Fuck purchased politicians.

Fuck manipulative, lying, immoral propaganda machines in a supposedly free country.

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

The influx will continue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4216987

[ScreamingMeemie]

124. ***Dealing with the roadblocks that happen with serious chronic illnesses is difficult

My husband once took down the entire 6th floor of St. Johns in Detroit because they gave me the wrong medication.

What would I like to say "Fuck" to today?

"Fuck" getting so upset over something someone who is in obvious turmoil over a serious concern posted on a message board. "Fuck" continuing the conversation with nasty asides in other ACA threads.

Just really, fuck that. Hide thread and move on.


People lose patience with the incompetence that is our current medical system when they are watching one they love suffer.

I'm not going to lose sleep over hurting a man (the president) who doesn't really even know I exist. I am happy with ACA so far, but I care more about a fellow DUer than a politician.

Thank you.

[Bluenorthwest]

126. Ugly, nasty, uncalled for, brutal and typcial

nt

[phleshdef]

134. Right because you NEVER post anything that fits that description...

[frylock]

129. hope you feel better, fuckface

[Cha]

155. "hope you feel better, fuckface".. and for any alerts out there.. I'm quoting the above post.

[TroglodyteScholar]

172. ...

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 19, 2014, 04:18 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Does the OP not set this exact same tone? If the OP stays, so should this equally over-the-top reply.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: There's a difference between rhetorical and personal attacks.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: eh, after reading the OP and coming to understand what's being discussed, I understand why this was said. Besides, 'FuckFace' is pretty juvenile so it kinda matches the OP. *shrug*

[phleshdef]

132. FUCKING RECCED FOR CUTTING THROUGH THE BULLSHIT!

[Logical]

157. LOL, shocked! n-t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

135. And a hearty FU to any Democrat (or politician) who votes to help your fellow Americans!

n/t

[Cha]

160. ROFL!

[iandhr]

142. When it comes to the ACA it sounds like a lot of people here.

When I finished school I was one of the millions of young people who benefited from the law. After graduation I needed five surgeries on my ankle. The ACA enabled me and millions of people like to have coverage.

[Cha]

173. Doesn't matter.. "The President is a POS Used Car Salesman".. according to

the big muckety muck.

[Jamaal510]

178. Obama can go self-fornicate.

From here on out, I'm a full-fledged Republican! I want my freedom back to be without insurance goddammit! Health care is for chumps and sissies. He can take his law and go stick it up his butt.

[Cha]

182. Thanks Obama, You #@$$%%^&&*((() blankity blank blank..

Rachel Maddow calls the Obama administration's plan to send American experts to Uganda a new kind of experiment in 'real science and real diplomacy.'

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry Tuesday announced plans to send American scientists to Uganda in an effort to counteract the flawed "science" cited by Ugandan president Yoweri Museveni when he signed into law the Anti-Homosexuality Act, which imposes lifetime prison sentences for multiple instances of same-sex sexual activity between consenting adults and criminalizes anyone who "aids or abets" homosexuality or LGBT people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4692828

Pardon my French!

[Rex]

187. I'm sensing a little hostility here, bad day at the water cooler?

That's a lot of fucks!

[Cha]

189. Fuck Yeah.

[Vattel]

190. The drama never ends