I'm getting so depressed over the Obama bashing.

[leftyladyfrommo]

"Weak, Weak, Weak" is what my friend keeps saying. "Putin is just so much stronger. Obama is no match for Putin." And I'm seeing that same thing in a lot of newspaper articles. He's weak. He can't get anything done in Congress. (God couldn't get anything done in this congress). "Putin takes over the Crimea and what does Obama do? Calls and talks to him for 45 minutes! What an idiot."

I don't think Obama is weak. I think he just likes to take the time to think things out completely before he takes action. My god, he's gotten so much done but he just isn't loud about it.

Besides what was he going to do? Start a war with Russia? Please. We are working with the EU and Nato. Trying to figure out alternative sources of oil for Europe.

I'm getting so tired of these awful politics. Of these awful people that we hear from very loudly on a daily basis. Just want to live my life without the news. But I can't stand to do that either. Too curious about what's going on.

[JoePhilly]

1. Goal is to discourage you from voting.

They want you to give up and stay home.

Don't let them win!

[leftyladyfrommo]

2. Keep calm and carry on?

I'm trying.

The awful things Ted Nugent said just broke my heart. Have we come to a point so low in our society that it is OK to talk like that?

It's just sickening.

[JoePhilly]

6. Ted is a racist nut job and not to be taken

seriously.

They can't suppress your vote unless you let them.

[leftyladyfrommo]

32. But how may Teds are there out there?

I live in Missouri. There are a lot of them around here. I hear people talking complete nonsense all the time.

[JoePhilly]

46. Those folks are aleady lost, you can't save them.

They are crazy, and they will vote.

So you need to vote.

[leftyladyfrommo]

84. Ted Nugent is just so despicable.

I can't believe the filth that pours from his mouth.

[Terra Alta]

88. Ted Nugent should be in prison

He has threatened the President on more than one occasion. He really needs to be investigated by the Secret Service.

[leftyladyfrommo]

89. Or in a mental hospital.

There is something seriously wrong with him.

[lostincalifornia]

105. Absolutely correct, and the MSM spouts the RW talking points to further propagate that demoralizatio

[unblock]

3. how "strong" would putin be with half the kremlim trying to repeal and obstruct everything?

and half his supporters bemoaning that he's no stalin or whatever.

people make far to much of the individual and fail to see the underlying power structure. presidential power is highly correlated with same-party representation in congress. give a president strong majorities in both houses and surprise, surprise, that president seems oh so powerful. give a president plenty of opposition in congress and somehow they seem weak.

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. Did you read George Will this morning?

I mostly don't have the patience to read his intellectualizing but his editorial in the KC Star this morning as just unbelievable. How Stalin treated the Ukranians. They simply starved them to death. People were eating their relatives.

I don't think Americans really have a very good grasp at just how awful the Russian regimes have been. How brutal. Where they killed millions of their own people.

[unblock]

13. i don't read will. he's just living proof that a big vocabulary doesn't make you smart.

i already know that, so i have no further use for him.

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. I read everybody but not all of the time.

It's best to know what where the opposition is coming from.

I read Drudge because I want to see what the current line of attack is.

[Voice for Peace]

19. that's a good way to get discouraged and depressed..

though a noble undertaking. I can take about a minute of that
ridiculous negativity.

[leftyladyfrommo]

23. Maybe I should just hold it a minute.

It does get depressing.

All the hatred and vitriol is so disheartening.

[freebrew]

44. I'm from MO too...

it used to be mostly Democrats in the local gov'ts. But since the * administration, fake news has taken over. And here, for some insane reason, the preachers are leading the pack into uber-RWism.

There aren't ANY Dems running locally here, but I still vote. Can't give up hope, I know there are others out there, maybe one day they'll all come out for something important.

[unblock]

21. i have no trouble figuring out what the republican line of the day is.

hard to avoid it.

i used to read will. aside from the gratification of seeing "s.a.t. words" in political commentary for a change, he occasionally had some more nuanced insights. i disagreed with him, but at least he wasn't strictly party line. those days are behind him, at some point he just became another right-wing hack and i lost interest.

[JDPriestly]

51. That is true, but if Obama were to use military force in the Ukraine, he would be making a huge

mistake.

First, the issues the Ukrainians face are complex. We don't know how much support we would be able to depend on from them. They must choose between the austerity demanded by the West Europeans along with the loss of cheap energy sources from Russia and joining the Russian Federation and economic alliances. Either way, they are taking a gamble. Either way, their nearest neighbor, Russia, could invade at the first excuse. Either way, there could be a war on their ground. So, we don't know how really wise it would be to get involved militarily.

Second, the Russians have huge strategic advantages in a military confrontation in Crimea and the Ukraine. They are right next door and have a history of repulsing invaders by simply drawing foreign opponents into Russia itself and then waiting until winter storms make supply routes impossible to travel and troops isolated without necessities of life. So, strategically, attacking Russia in or around the Ukraine is a huge gamble for our military. We have had a rough time in Afghanistan where the country is relatively poorly armed. Russia is not so militarily weak. Our troops would have an uphill battle trying just to hold their own due to the geography and distance from home, and we probably would not want to invade Russia itself because of the winters.

Third, our country is not united. If Obama were to take any step against Russia that would make a difference for Ukraine, he would be met with the same Republican criticism and lack of support and hatred that he faces now. The country would not back a war.

Fourth, Americans at this time are not willing to make the sacrifices that must be made to really win a war. And we cannot do anything about the Ukraine unless we are willing to drastically focus as a people and a nation on winning a war.

Fifth, there are probably ways short of war that can give the Ukrainians the space and time in which to make their decision about what they want to do. We can in that space and time do a lot to encourage Ukraine to join the European Union, etc.

So, Obama is quite right in his calculations in this situation.

You are also quite right about the brutality of the Russian domination in the Ukraine and in Eastern Europe going back over a century at least.

[treestar]

10. and do we even want a President to be that "strong?"

A lot of Russians may disagree but they don't have quite the same freedom to say anything about it.

[unblock]

15. exactly, our institutions are set up to avoid that kind of concentration of power.

it takes a very rare politically unified moment across the country to bring about that sort of concentration of power.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

61. Exactly

Check out 6 years of Bush/Cheney vs. 6 years of Obama/Biden. Bush had 6 years (give or take a few months) of a GOP-controlled Congress that was extremely loyal to him. Obama had 2 years of a Democratic-controlled Congress consisting of Blue Dogs- some of whom were almost as adversarial towards him as some of the Republicans- to say nothing of the unprecedented GOP obstructionism in the Senate where a majority of votes required is now 60 instead of 51. He got some stuff done during that time period and one would hope/think that he would've gotten more stuff done had Democrats continued to retain control of Congress but, of course, party control has been split between the House and Senate since then and the most he's been able to accomplish, really, is "damage control".

[Auntie Bush]

4. +100,000,000

You can say that again. It's sickening what's going on in DU. Hard to believe it's a Democratic site. So many here hate everything Obama does (just like the ReThugs) and everything about Hillary (just like the ReThugs) Sometimes I an't believe this place. It must attract all the Dem malcontents. They say they want to just push Omama and/or Hillary to the left. But they may be pushing the Dems out of future office.

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. I wasn't refering to DU.

Really I meant just all the bashing coming in from everywhere. Even some of the Dem. editorials.

I mostly just ignore the Obama bashing on DU.

I like the guy.

[lumpy]

72. Yes there are people on DU who are part of the problem with demeaning Obama inspite of his

efforts to try and do a good job for us. It is to be expected that the right contingent will use nasty negativity against Obama, but on DU? It is one thing to point out difference and opinions, but including nasty invectives in posts is beyond the pale and destructive.

[1000words]

73. What are you doing slummin' with "malcontents?"

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:49 PM - Edit history (1)

[Bobbie Jo]

79. I don't know....

Maybe she's been "slummin'" here since 2003.

Seems she has every right to be here and express her frustration and concerns.

[UTUSN]

5. R#3 & K for, I clicked-in expecting an o.p. about bashing of a Dem prez by fellow Dems... n/t

[Pirate Smile]

56. Me too

On supposedly Dem sites

[VanillaRhapsody]

134. supposedly is becoming the operative word!

[treestar]

8. The whole weakness and strength meme is silly

Obama and Putin aren't kids in a playground. Obama has more military tools and economic tools than Putin - America is stronger than Russia - friend seems to think leaders of each country duke it out themselves. If she thinks this and wants to just be with the strong man, maybe moving to Russia is the thing, after all, Pooty is stronger. LOL.

Does friend think we need to go to war over everything like a strong person would and would she admire Obama for warmongering? I doubt it. Does friend agree with Gramps McCain we should be over there kicking Pooty Poot's ass?

As for not getting anything done in Congress, people who don't understand the separation of powers are showing incredible ignorance. Ask them who their Senators and Congressmen are. Maybe they will have the decency to be ashamed of their stupidity.

[leftyladyfrommo]

12. She doesn't want to move to Russia.

I mean, come on. They have a much lower standard of living than we do!

And she doesn't like Putin. But he's just so much stronger than our weak, weak, weak president.

You know what the truth here really is? She voted for Obama. Then she started trying to find things wrong with him. She has done this ever since he got into office. fI hear about anything that might make me think less of him.

One time she called to tell me he was just an awful president because he was wearing white pants.

Oh, and don't get her started on Michelle O. She is a fashion disaster.

So now she has found something she can grab onto.

Honestly, I think it is all about race. Bottom line. She simply can't deal with the fact that a black president may be the best president we have had in years and years - or at least the smartest.

[treestar]

17. Yep. And a black man being "strong" might be too scary

The President is the most powerful strongman in the world! But oh wait - he's black. Now it's "weak" thank goodness!

[11 Bravo]

48. I wonder what your friend's DU username is. She sounds like ...

a BUNCH of posters on this board!

[jeff47]

70. +infinity (nt)

[leftyladyfrommo]

138. She's not on DU

Thank God.

[JDPriestly]

55. She sounds confused and rather foolish -- just wants to say what she thinks other people are

thinking. Ignore her. She is a fool.

[leftyladyfrommo]

87. She's really not a fool. But I think she might be suffering

frm the beginning of dementia. Sometimes she just doesn't make good sense any more.

[JDPriestly]

54. McCain talks big about war, but he was captured by the North Vietnamese in October 1967

and sat in the POW prison until 1973. I'm sure that life in that prison was tough, but when I think of the many American heroes who died in the swamps, rivers and rice paddies of Viet Nam, I really don't see why people take McCain's views on foreign policy and especially war seriously. He is a talker, not a doer.

John Kerry served nobly and came out of the experience with a great desire to help bring peace to the world. For me, Kerry is the man to trust when it comes to deciding whether a war is worth the lost lives and investment or not.

Ignore John McCain.

[Orsino]

94. Coming from the gutless Right, tools of the billionaires?

They don't get to use the word "weak."

[B Calm]

11. What do they want, a nuclear war? They

should of voted for Romney!

[leftyladyfrommo]

14. I know. What do "they" think he should do?

Start a war with Russia?

Right! That would work out so well for everyone involved.

[steve2470]

18. my advice fwiw

I don't talk to anyone except people on DU and people in real life I know really well about politics. Even then, I'm very choosy who I engage with.

MOST people (notice the word most) are underinformed and ill-informed about politics. I think that's an indisputable fact. The ones who are well-informed and rabidly anti-Obama, they can go take a hike.

I don't engage with underinformed people, at all. FWIW.

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. I don't engage with her either.

I just put the phone down and let her rant for a while. Then I slowly change the subject.

I think that makes her crazy. I just don't want to talk about politics with her. I don't agree with anything she says. But I have known her for 35 years and I'm not about to end a long time friendship over political differences.

She doesn't like Hilary, either. But that's because Hilary didn't divorce Bill like a good, strong woman would have. That makes her ability to make important choices and decisions suspect.

[steve2470]

26. can you politely tell her, no more politics, please ?

Or would she get her feelings gravely wounded ?

[leftyladyfrommo]

29. I've tried that.

I've been trying to set boundaries. So far she simply chooses to ignore them.

I have tried to cut down on her phone calls to one a day in the afternoon. And then if she starts getting into politics I kind of just shut her down.

She knows I don't want to hear that stuff.

[steve2470]

31. ......

[LittleBlue]

22. It was always going to be a mismatch between Putin and Obama

Putin is a former KGB operative with a mandate from his people. Obama is a former community worker in charge of a divided country.

One is a Harvard educated lawyer, the other is a man who survived and thrived in the brutal post Soviet collapse era. Obama isn't especially weak, he just happened to run into a buzz saw.

[leftyladyfrommo]

28. Am I wrong?

I think Obama has been trying for better relationships with Russia for practically his whole presidency. And It looked like things really were working themselves out for the better.

And then "wham" Putin pulls this stuff out of the hat.

Bottom line/ Never trust an ex-KGB agent.

[mrchips]

53. Buzz Saw?

How nice of you to validate FAUX News haters. Putin is an ultra nationalist USSR apparatchik. He is as determined to restore the USSR as the Russians are amenable to barbarianism. Obama speaks for civilization. Putin appeals to the bassist instincts of authoritarianism. Brutality is founded in weakness. Inevitably it will succumb to the more intelligent constructs. Keep using words of fear like buzz saw. You're sure to get a platform on FAUX.

[LittleBlue]

57. Both are products of their environments

Obama is a good speaker, an able politician. That's what he needed to be to become president.

Now go read about the disastrous post collapse period in Russia. People were starving, these were some of the worst conditions the Russians had experienced since 1917. At the top end wealthy men were killing one another for control of Russia's natural resources. The ones who came out on top were the most ruthless and cunning gangsters in Russia. Putin then proceeded to tame, murder, imprison or exile all of these powerful oligarchs.

In the US, losing to a political opponent means a concession speech. In Russia, it meant Putin would meet a swift end. Such environments create extraordinarily capable people because the ones who weren't capable didn't make it.

[mrchips]

65. Your Argument

Is weak. You think that because Obama is a president he is going to get slaughtered by a buzz saw. Putin is just a KGB thug in post USSR clothing. There is nothing sophisticated about brute force. Eventually it will be taken down by those you are characterizing as weak. Once the people of the Putin ruled Russia realize they can't buy food because their economy is ruined Putin will be gone the way of the dodo. Keep cheering for the buzz saw.

[leftyladyfrommo]

83. I agree on Putin being a thug

but I think he a very wily thug. He bided his time until he had almost the perfect opportunity to pull this off. And he did.

The questions is, will he stop here? If he does this will al quiet down. If he just keeps going we are going to have a mess on our hands.

[mrchips]

111. Wile Coyote

He waited until after the Sochi Kabuki Dance. Then he started with "war games" near Crimea. Then unmarked Russian military units moved into Crimea. There was no subtlety. He used the Sudentenland excuse of protecting ethnic Russians ( who were moved into Crimea during the Soviet subjugation of republics. There has been no subtlety, no super human outwitting of the international community. He knew he could walk into Crimea, illegally and get away with it because no European alliances could claim Ukraine to be in their national or international interest, beyond international law. Putin, like all thugs have total contempt for law. He is no smarter than a cartoon character. He is an opportunist who will cause his countrymen and women to pay dearly. His fellow Russians will starve to death. And those who survive will devour him in the end. He is like all de spits, doomed because he is in the end a despot.

[treestar]

107. Russia today is not that bad

I don't think you die if you lose elections or what not. There have been elections and an opening up since 1991.

[Puglover]

24. I said good bye to a friend of

many years for precisely this reason. She was a work pal and I loved working with her. Unfortunately she married a crazy wing nut and she was a tad co-dependent. Slowly I started hearing Fox News talking points from her. I would engage but I could tell it wasn't resonating at all.

And then finally she started forwarding ugly racist bullshit on Facebook and that was the end of it. I miss her. (She retired) However I don't miss the ugly.

I absolutely know how awful and tiresome it is.

Good luck.

[leftyladyfrommo]

27. She quoted Krauthammer to me the other day.

First she said that she knows I don't agree and that she knows I don't want to hear it but she agrees with it and she is going to read it to me anyway.

I don't know what she quoted because I put the phone down and didn't listen. But that attitude really upset me. Talk about disrespectful. I keep thinking I should just deep six this relationship but I can't. She is old and pretty much housebound. I'm kind of all she has. So I put up with it.

I wouldn't put up with this stuff from somebody else.

[Puglover]

36. You should do what feels right to you.

I understand your reticence to end the relationship.

My brother and I made a solid rule. NO POLITICS. It's too bad we don't agree on a lot but still, he is my brother. I'd rather have him in my life with no political talk then the other way around.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

45. Quote Krauthammer back at her from 2008 when Putin ate part of Georgia

2008:

In fact, some of the Fox commentators currently stoking the flames of "crisis" were rather non-judgmental when Russian tanks moved into Georgia. "I don't think the Russians are reckless," Charles Krauthammer announced on August 8, 2008, as Russian fleets advanced into the Black Sea and Russian jets launched raids targeting government buildings in Georgia. "What they are doing here is reasserting control of this province. And when it's done, which will probably happen in a couple days, the firing will crease."

Three days later, Krauthammer insisted there was nothing for the United States to do as the crisis escalated: "Well, obviously it's beyond our control. The Russians are advancing. There is nothing that will stop them. We are not going to go to war over Georgia." Krauthammer's Fox colleague Jeff Birnbaum, agreed: "Because Georgia is not part of NATO, there's really no danger the United States or Europe will get in involved in what is really a civil war almost between--within this small part of Georgia."

[lumpy]

77. I admire you for putting up with this lonely oldster and clinging to your friendship. Maybe she can

be diverted from her interest in politics by directing her toward other interests.

[markpkessinger]

106. What would happen if . . .

. . . you began forwarding to her a bunch of unsolicited articles and commentary from the left? I mean, if she were to complain about it at some point, that would give you a perfect opening to say to her, "Look, I will gladly stop sending these things to you if you will stop sending them to me. You're a good friend and I care about you, but can we agree, with regard to politics, to simply respectfully agree to disagree?" Do you think something like that would offend her?

[yeoman6987]

109. You are a nice person

What a sacrifice you are doing for her. Have you ever thought that she just likes to "rile" you up? I had a friend that liked to do that to me until one day I said "enough". My friend saw I was serious and said, "you know I do that on purpose". We finally started laughing and that was the end of it. Now we just talk about normal things. That might be the case here. I really think you might, do both of you a favor, if you put an ultimatum out there and see how she reacts. It might even make the friendship stronger than it is already.

[leftyladyfrommo]

115. Thank you.

What is so ironic about all of this is that her family are all Baptists and Nazarines - extremely conservative and very verbal about their beliefs. She doesn't like Obama but is still a Democrat of some sort. And she would get so upset when she went to lunch with her family and they all talked right wing politics.

But somehow it's alright to do the same thing to me.

Honestly, she isn't all right in the head any more. She had a brain tumor behind her ear and they zapped it with radiation (gamma knife) and she just hasn't been the same since.

[hfojvt]

25. me too

I am starting to worry that he won't be re-elected in 2016.

[jimlup]

30. You can console yourself by realizing that

while the conservatives have managed some traction in our own very biased media facade with this talking point it doesn't work with the rest of the world.

Most of the rest of the world appreciates the truth. You are quite right. If Putin holds the cards then Putin holds the cards. There is little Obama can do other than exactly what he is doing. I guess it scares me more than pisses me off that people think this way. I mean it is a very ignorant way to think but I don't think they are capable of anything more so just smile and walk away from these ignorant losers.

[leftyladyfrommo]

37. Thank you.

It scares me, too.

Maybe that's the real problem. It scares me.

You know, it doesn't matter if everyone in the world believes something. If it is wrong it is still wrong.

[dilby]

33. This will continue till the run up to the next Presidential election.

Then it will be a constant bashing of the different Democratic Candidates.

[VanillaRhapsody]

135. you mean it will be just like Democratic Underground?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

34. This has nothing to do with Obama. This has to do with the U.S. needing to QUIT engaging in coups

And maybe, just maybe we might have a president who is going to buck the customary U.S. "regime-change" MO.

[bigwillq]

35. Politics is a dirty and mean game

Try not to take it so seriously. It's not worth it.

[elleng]

38. Not depressed, but annoyed. On Tuesday, Wes Clark was on Ronan Farrow show, said this:

summary:

Sanctions show unity of purpose between U.S. and Europe. a FIRST response, not 'weak.' Takes time to formulate action.

Step by step, allies have many interests, we have to help Ukraine with its problems. Moscow action is multi-layered, planned provocations.

NATO countries in Eastern Europe joined with this from Russia in mind. Wes saw putins hand in Kosovo.

'Formidable opponent'

[woo me with science]

39. All politics is personalized and partisan-ized now.

It is the One Percent's primary tool for ensuring that their predatory policies continue.

As long as The Other Side is cast as evil incarnate, there is no possibility of ever coming together as a nation to focus, not on beating the other side, but on what is best for the nation.

The propaganda deliberately stokes this sort of partisan psychosis. That's why we get the spectacle of Democrats who abhor drone murders and surveillance under Bush but not Obama, and Republicans who attack Obama for the very same policies they cheered under Bush.

When either side continues predatory policies, the One Percent fuels the brainwashed partisans to circle the wagons and defend those policies. And if either side does the right thing, they stoke the other team's partsan outrage to drag the nation back to profitable dysfunction.

[laundry_queen]

118. ^^^This. nt

[Demo_Chris]

40. Obama is doing the correct thing with the Crimea. nt

[calimary]

41. I'm not. I'm starting to get pretty damn pissed off!!!

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2014, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)

GUYS:

DAMMIT!

EYES ON THE PRIZE!!!! PLEASE!!!!

DO NOT let the insistence on the perfect make you turn your back on the good - OR THE POSSIBLE.

Maybe I'm turning into one of those trying to herd cats. Well, so be it, then. In real life, we have FOUR cats here in our house, and I'm actually pretty good at herding them!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. George W. Bush stared into Putin's eyes for 45 minutes. What an idiot.

In 2008, Faux Noise shrugged when Putin took over part of Georgia.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/03/04/flashback-2008-when-a-russian-invasion-made-fox/198322

[Wait Wut]

43. You need to consider the source(s).

Who is telling you that Pres. Obama is weak? Who is comparing him to Putin? I'm not. Putin is a grade A asshole and I would no more want our President to act/be like him than I would want Palin for President. Despite the grumbling and occasional all out spewing against the President from some of our own, I'm willing to bet that the majority would agree.

I don't need our President to run around shirtless and pretending to have the key to the testosterone bank. I want a President that is compassionate, courageous, calm, intelligent, and freaking human. I'm not sure that Putin is any of those things. His 'courage' is the same 'courage' I witnessed on playgrounds, as a child. Pres. Obama doesn't need/want a war with Russia. It's unnecessary at this point and both sides know that. Putin has the benefit of being able to push people around. That's not being 'strong'. It's political bullying and posturing.

Our President is handling this situation in the best way possible, at the moment. Like an adult.

[Iliyah]

49. AMEN

[sendero]

47. I'm not very happy with Obama..

.... but what are really his options here? Does he go to war over a territorial dispute thousands of miles away? I'm just not sure what the "Obama is not as strong as Putin" crowd would have him do. Frankly if one doesn't have specific recommendations as to a course of action they should STFU.

Thanks to the neocon wars of choice in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm not sure our military is in the best shape to tackle a new war even if we wanted to.

And I don't want to. This really is none of our business.

[lark]

50. On Russia, any Obama bashing is just pure wrong. Bash the person that caused this - Putin.

On letting the NSA & CIA run rampant over American's rights - bash away.

[lillypaddle]

52. I hear you.

I feel the same way.

[Cali_Democrat]

58. Don't let them win

Fight them hard!!!

That's what I try to do!!

[polichick]

59. Practice detachment like a buddha - watch without allowing it to hurt you...

Easier said than done, but a good practice if you want to stay healthy and happy.

[Savannahmann]

60. People expect lightning to strike twice, or three times.

In October 1962, Kennedy took the nation to the brink of war to oppose an intolerable action by the Soviets. At least that is how we view it from the safety of history. In that, Kennedy appeared strong and resolute, refusing to accept a situation that would have been a serious threat to the nation.

In the 1970's Ford looked weak after the fall of South Viet-Nam and his lackadaisical response to Angola. Again, this is not my feeling, just what the people tend to see.

Reagan looked tough when he invaded Grenada with tens of thousands of military people to remove 250 Cubans, 50 of which were actual soldiers. He looked like a real no nonsense leader when the Iranians released the hostages when he was elected.

GHW Bush looked almost tough and resolute when he launched Desert Shield and Storm. Clinton looked weak when he removed the military from Somalia after the Black Hawk down fiasco.

Clinton tried to look determined when he bombed a suspected chemical weapons factory that was really making aspirin. Then it was Kosovo and Bosnia and after that the image of muddling through was his forever. That's why at the end of his Presidency we were told that his legacy was the Welfare Reforms that the Republicans pushed through Congress five times before he would sign it.

I could go on, and on, and on. The best one to consider is Kennedy and Cuba. Kennedy looked resolute, determined, and very strong when that turned out in our favor for the public. We didn't know about the secret deal to remove Missiles from Turkey, and when we did learn, we were told that these missiles were obsolete anyway and had been scheduled for removal before Cuba was an issue.

People want that kind of strong leader, one who will through sheer force of will protect the people. The problem is that there is only one JFK, and only one Missile crisis. But people who do know next to nothing about the Cuban Missile crisis take away from it the idea that if the President is serious enough, determined enough, that the Russians/Soviets will back down because they aren't willing to risk nuclear war over the issue.

We hold people today up to an unrealistic image of what the past was. Kennedy could not stay in office if he had let the missiles stay in Cuba. He was terrified of the idea of the missiles flying and world war III starting. The Military and the Hawks wanted the bombs to start dropping in Cuba right away, they said that the Russians wouldn't be crazy enough to start a war. Kennedy knew better than to listen to the "experts" because they were making no sense what so ever.

The people want a Jack Kennedy to stare the Russians down, despite the fact that it didn't happen that way. It was a backroom deal that saved the world, compromise in other words. Kennedy gave up something we were going to give up anyway (supposedly) while getting what we really wanted, which was the missiles removed from Cuba.

[leftyladyfrommo]

90. I remember that day.

I walked to school that morning not knowing whether we would have a world to come home that night.

Lots of us lived thru the cold war. It was really an awful time to grow up. There was just so much fear. I had nightmares of bombs dropping everywhere. We had bomb drills. We wore dog tags.

I really, really don't want to have to go through that all over again.

[Rex]

62. You need a new friend!

Stop watching/listening to RWing sources! Obama is one of the most direct and pivotal POTUSes we've ever had. The Russians don't consider him weak...if they did there would be NO saber rattling!

[leftyladyfrommo]

91. That's true.

I was laughing but my first thought was that Putin should start watching out for drones.

My feeling on that - for what it's worth - is better drones than wars.

[Rex]

96. Pooty Poot got that covered!

I hear that somewhere he is patrolling the Russian skies as I type this!

[leftyladyfrommo]

100. Oh, that's hilarious. n/t

[kardonb]

63. depressed

please , please , please , don't get in a blue funk about all those Obama-haters . They are small-minded , mean-spirited , dried-up - soul
haters . Just to spite all of them , we put two O. stickers on our car (in AZ) , the new one : I STILL got his back ! It riles them to no end . But once in a while , we get smiles and compliments , so there are like-minded folks around . Spread the Love and support , let the hate roll off your back like water off a duck .

[albino65]

66. I have an Obama 2016 bumper sticker

I just love to watch heads explode when I drive by.

[philosslayer]

75. I love it!

How about The First Lady in 2016? Count me in!!

[leftyladyfrommo]

92. I would love to do that but I'm afraid someone would key my car.

Too many rednecks around here.

[narnian60]

137. Same here. nt

[albino65]

64. Who would have thought

Such a weak president would:

Successfully get to the negotiation table with Iran rather than invade as the old war mongers would have?

Negotiate a way for Syria to get rid of their chemical weapons rather than put boots on the ground so that more mothers could weep at their children's funerals?

Maneuver a never done before universal health care act, that while not being perfect is at least something, through both chambers of congress despite daunting opposition who would rather see people die than see any of their patrons in big medicine, big phrama, big insurance lose a dime? There have been 51 attempts to repeal, defund, or weaken this act.

Prodded Sen Reid to use the nuclear option to actually get something done in the Senate?

Prodded the whole United States to seriously face the question of raising the minimum wage with a stroke of the pen?

Endure the most blatant racism from members of congress and the whole right wing cabal and still keep his hand to the tiller?

Did not cave again to the sword rattling from the "Masters of War" (sorry Bob Dylan) and do something provocative in the Ukraine? The masters will never give up their attempts at hegemony and nation destroying.

These are but a few of his accomplishments.

Weak? I prefer to call him thoughtful, strong, deliberate, and the best president we ever had.

[leftyladyfrommo]

93. Me, too. I really like him.

I don't always agree with him. But I like him a lot.

[magical thyme]

67. take a vacation from the news, and limit your sources...

to those that don't depress you.

Remember there is only so much you can do; the rest is out of your control anyway. A lot of Clinton bashing went on for 8 years too.

Remember that a lot of these people are simply paid to talk. What they babble is simplistic nonsense at best, so not worth a pennie's worth of notice.

I find it helps to get my news from international sources. Al Jazeera, the Guardian, Sydney Morning Herald...have better US news than any msm sources these days.

[William769]

68. This too shall pass.

Puntista's are a minority here and their arguments are nothing but laughable..

Just to give an example, I was told last night that Russia is isolating the U.S. from the world. How fucking stupid!

[Zorra]

69. I think the President's sanctions against Imperial Russia are probably a wise

course of action. We can't very well get into another MIC driven ProfitQuest™ war with Putin over his imperialism, but we can effectively let him know we think he totally sucks and won't be getting any more of our lovin'.

I believe that Putin is a kinder, gentler shallow unethical bigoted conservative authoritarian in the tradition of Stalin.

[swilton]

71. Criticizing Obama for being Weak, Weak, Weak

is Obama bashing and is ironic given that Obama is never Weak, Weak, Weak when dismissing the progressives in the left wing of his own party.

On the other hand, he should be criticized in this case for letting the necons - many of them holdovers from the Bush Administration - drive his foreign policy. There is as much aggression in Ukraine by Ukrainian and right-wing and neo-Nazi nationalists who are funded and supported by the US as there is aggression from pro-Russian factions, also within that country. Would the US Government like it if foreign operatives were assisting the Occupy Wall Street movement. This is equivalent to how the legitimately elected Ukrainian Government was overthrown, even after it had agreed to the demands of the protestors to hold early elections.

The best thing that can happen now is to recognize that Crimea is part of Russia - and to let the Ukrainian people manage their government w/o US or Russian intervention.

[philosslayer]

74. President Obama has consistently demonstrated he is up to the task in front of him

This is evident from his handling of Syria, and dozens of other issues. Relax. President Obama has this, and has shown himself to be well ahead of his critics. He thinks strategically, not tactically. Think long term, not whats happening today.

[1Independent]

76. Obama weak?

Obama is NOT weak, so just say so!

Unlike his predecessor, he hasn't started a war for oil, he got bin Laden, pushed through the Affordable Care Act, tolerates racial insults (I couldn't), puts up with a mamby-pamby tanning salon addict, Boehner, and doesn't act like an ignorant fool--like his predecessor.
He doesn't need defending!
He needs support!

[Cofitachequi]

78. Too many, even here on DU, mistake brains for lack of brawn...

The president is the C in C of the worlds most effective military. It would be an easy temptation to use it for political points. His unwillingness to use it for the sake of symbolism and bravado is a reason for his supporters to be proud. I am.

[wryter2000]

80. Ask your friend if he/she wants a nuclear war

Dolts.

K&R, btw.

[pansypoo53219]

81. i think we REALLY NEED an ACTUAL pissing contest. on cable gnewz.

[JI7]

82. people who do this hate the PRes . they were angry when he got Bin Laden

they were probably hoping for more terrorist attacks(as long as it doesn't hurt them) so they can attack Obama as causing it.

this is why they so desperately cling to the Benghazi thing .

[spanone]

85. SCREW 'em.

[leftyladyfrommo]

95. Yes! Screw them all!

I still we could just shut them up. But that's not the American way.

[spanone]

99. it is very frustrating. i'm glad for the President's common sense and willingness to use diplomacy.

screw the warmongers.

[leftyladyfrommo]

101. I just can't believe how calm he stays.

I would last 10 minutes under that kind of pressure.

[TBF]

86. First of all you can inform your "friend"

that Crimea wants to be part of Russia. The entire eastern and southern parts of Ukraine are loyal to Russia.

Second she is an idiot so you need to get smarter friends. I know it is hard - I live in Texas. That is why I am posting on a forum.

[leftyladyfrommo]

98. That is kind of what I did tell her.

But thanks.

I just have to keep reminding myself that she is housebound, watches TV all day, and is most probably mental.

[TBF]

102. lol -

"and is most probably mental"

If she watches tv all day then I wouldn't be surprised. I can't even watch the news anymore much less any of the rest of it. Sports is the only thing I'll willingly turn on.

[ProSense]

97. The taunting

"Weak, Weak, Weak" is what my friend keeps saying. "Putin is just so much stronger. Obama is no match for Putin." And I'm seeing that same thing in a lot of newspaper articles. He's weak. He can't get anything done in Congress. (God couldn't get anything done in this congress). "Putin takes over the Crimea and what does Obama do? Calls and talks to him for 45 minutes! What an idiot."

...is coming from people who either want war or are pro-Putin.

The Logic Behind Obama’s Step-by-Step Approach To Russia
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024698577

[leftyladyfrommo]

103. Thanks guys.

I'm all out of time at the library but I'll be back in the morning.

You have been a huge help.

[gulliver]

104. Obama bashers have one thing in common.

They are idiots. Take comfort in being superior to them.

[CFLDem]

108. ...

I don't think Obama is weak. I think he just likes to take the time to think things out completely before he takes action. My god, he's gotten so much done but he just isn't loud about it.

So he's slow witted and shy? Or maybe just complacent about national security?


While that's clearly absurd, that's how it get twisted in the public's mind. Especially during an election year.

And if he doesn't start taking publicly decisive action soon, it's just going to reinforce the 'Democrats are weak on defense' myth in the public's mind and blow the election.

[Skittles]

110. curious why you are friends with someone like that

I would find their lack of critical thinking skills a deal breaker

[leftyladyfrommo]

116. When you've known someone for 35 years you don't just drop them

when the going gets tough.

I can't just drop her. I'm pretty much all she has. Everyone else is dead.

Sometimes I think she attacks me because I am 65 and still going strong. My health is good and I started my own business when I got forced out of my job. I am running around all day long.

Her health just is awful. She has diabetes. She has a brain tumor. Her balance is awful. She really is pretty much house bound although she can still take care of herself, pay her bills, fix meals. She used to have tons of energy and was always doing all kinds of stuff. After that radiation she just doesn't seem to be able to do anything.

I just am the one who catches all her frustration at her condition.

[Skittles]

119. I cut my aunt off my email and I have known her for over 50 years

make a deal with your friend to never discuss politics - simply refuse to discuss it.......cut her off

[leftyladyfrommo]

121. My friends are more important to me than my politics.

I would never cut family off. Fortunately all my family are dems so that's not a problem.

Politics are cold comfort when you get old and need help from friends.

[Skittles]

141. which is exactly why you should refuse to discuss politics with them

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

112. It's just another RW talking point. They don't even care if it's true or not. ANYTHING Pres. Obama

does or doesn't do will result in teeth gnashing and wailing by the RW. It's so fucking tiresome.

[leftyladyfrommo]

117. It is, isn't it.

Do you think it would have been different if he was white? Or would the RW be just as awful?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

120. They'd be pretty damn awful, but they wouldn't be able to get the suppport of racists simply by

attacking him. But the RW will try to ruin anyone who opposes them. Take Bill Clinton as an example. They were pretty awful to him, and he was white, very business friendly, and southern. Shit they usually adore. And I think since then they have developed new, more ruthless tactics.

[leftyladyfrommo]

122. RW are really hitting both Hilary and Bill right now.

I don't know who owns the National Inquirer or the Globe but those are both seriously RW. They have been running absolutely awful stuff lately on the Clintons and the Obamas.

You can't really ignore stuff like that. Those magazines are on every grocery store and drug store check out stand in the country. The front page always has some horrible, lurid headline with huge color photos that grab people's attention. Then when you read the article inside it's all smoke and mirrors. All old stuff that no one has ever been able to substaniate about the Clintons - the murder plots back in Clinton's governor days, Hilary's passionate lesbian affairs, Hilary's health problems (brain tumors), Bill's womanizing. All stuff like that.

The Obamas are on the verge of divorce. Obama is seeing other women. Obama sold himself for sex for cocaine and school money. Michelle had affairs with the secret service.

It just goes on and on. And millions of people read that stuff every week. If it is print then it must be true.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

142. Add this to the Democrat bashing chain emails and you have a very strong advertising campaign.

And yep, as you say, people believe that shit.

[Cha]

113. Kick.. I don't read any of that shite.. I'd be depressed, too.

[Buddyblazon]

114. In my younger days...

cheering for a Ruski over your own President resulted in ass-whooping at minimum from conservatives.

Now...they're so cross eyed from hate over Obama's presidency, fawning all over some KGB thug and comparing him to our POTUS is the latest conservative rage.

Remind them of this every time they whip out the Whine du Jour.

[madokie]

123. I like the way our President does things

I don't always agree but then again I don't always have all the facts either.
He does and I like that he works from facts as they're presented to him not on emotions like little boots did

[leftyladyfrommo]

124. I do, too.

This stuff is too important to just go off half cocked. And it's too complicated.

[madokie]

126. And further more I'm proud of the fact

I like our President. Adore him is the right word I think. While fully understanding that he is human and will make mistakes same as any of us.
Our first family makes me Proud too, from Grandmother to daughters. They are awesome

[MrMickeysMom]

125. Notice the Neanderthals who keep drumming this in the media…

Murdock and Fox Empire tell their drones on the television that frankly is propaganda and NOT news.

This just in from that flame throwing, knuckle dragger, Charles Krauthammer…
"The Weak response to Putin's actions can only embolden him"… (insert his usual shit soaked Washington Post column that our local carries under the Op/Ed section)

As they say in the Southern Tier of NY where my brother lives, "Aya… You'll HAVE that…"

[leftyladyfrommo]

128. I have never read Krauthammer.

I know this is completely silly but I just can't stand the way he looks. And I just can't stand the way he thinks, either. But he makes his living that way. And I'm sure it's a good living.

But I do read some of the other conservatives.

[MrMickeysMom]

130. First, you'd have to lower your IQ points by at least 50 to "get" reading him….

So, you're not missing anything, certainly not news… just more shitty word games to go along with his shitty physiognomy.

I'm sure his mother once loved him.

[leftyladyfrommo]

132. Jonah Goldberg is another one I just don't get.

I tried reading him a couple of times. Just seems way to simple minded to me.

[MrMickeysMom]

139. You can say that again...

What an empty head that guy has!

[RKP5637]

127. Having been in corporate politics for years, Obama bashing just makes me dig in harder

supporting Obama. Bullies always resort to crap like this. The best way to handle a bully is to kick them in the ass! Don't let these creepy assholes get to you, EVER!

[leftyladyfrommo]

129. Obama and EU are starting to kick ass.

I'm loving this.

I can hardly wait to see what they come up with next. Putin should have figured out by now that Obama talks softly but carries a big stick. As he said himself he doesn't bluff.

[RKP5637]

133. Excellent! People that yell and scream are generally insecure, they are afraid none

will listen to them unless they yell and scream. AKA bullies, temper tantrums as children. AKA republicans.

[TheKentuckian]

131. There is nothing for him to really do on this one.

What do these dumbdums want done?

Blustery idiots. I'm not even sure what is being done isn't unwise in the big picture much less anything the phony tough, wannabe Dirty Harrys out there are puffing up about.

[MrMickeysMom]

136. See also this thread with Maher's new rules from last evening...

Roll it to around 3:11 for what this "word game" means…

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017182361

[seabeyond]

140. agreed. well. not depressed. but too tired of it and leaves no conversation to be had. nt