If you are an Obamabot but don't like the Third Way, you may be...

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I don't know anything about the member who created what he described a "political ideology" poll, but he left out THE singular most important group from his poll! and that is Third Way ideology.

It's quite obvious, that the Democratic Party is being pulled in two directions, and it is reflected right here at DU with in the tone of our debates.

On one side is the Third Way and on the other side is the so-called "Elizabeth Warren Wing" of the Democratic Party.

"That Social Security plan was the final moment for us," said Kessler of Sen. Warren. "Final moment" is a telling turn of phrase. Polls show that the public wants more genuinely progressive policies than those it is receiving from the Democratic Party leadership. Sen. Warren's popularity seems like a harbinger of that party's potential moved to the left -- a move that would render the "have it both ways" cynicism of the Third Way crowd obsolete.

Economically they're already obsolete. The Clinton/Third Way/DLC ideology -- which typically markets itself as "centrism," even though its economic policies are far to the right of public opinion -- was thoroughly discredited by the financial crisis of 2008. That crisis was caused in large part by Wall Street deregulation which they pushed, and it exacerbated the growing wage inequality and loss of social mobility which has devastated middle class and lower-income Americans.

And yet, their brand of Wall Street-friendly "centrism" made a remarkable comeback after 2008, thanks in large part to the Obama White House's influence on the Democratic Party -- and to corporate money's influence on the political process.

Posted: 12/08/2013

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/the-democrats-third-way-q_b_4410394.html

If you're an Obamabot, my claim is that you are, in fact, suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I am a Liberal/Progressive Democrat.
I support Obama's Third Way attacks on the Democratic Party's signature achievements: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. Says you....

I support Obama do not call myself a bot...nor am I "Third Way" so speak for yourself.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

2. Why aren't you a Third Way Democrat?

Now speak for yourself.

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. because I am not...that's why...

Why are you a Democrat?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

5. This is EXACTLY why that guy's poll didn't include Third Way

shame




That was quick. First responder

[Autumn]

4. I ignored the Obamabot crap and clicked on the link. The article is quite good

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

7. I never heard of the term until last night when someone posted a thread linked to...

an article, both of which were titled: "I am an Obamabot."

It's like when Tea Partiers were calling themselves Teabaggers until they found out it was a dirty word.

Not my term, theirs.

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. because OTHER people call them "obamabots" that was just someone OWNING the term

OMG and you wrote this behind that? You probably should educate yourself a little more before you start trying to stir up shit...

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

12. Learn about Obamabots?

I read that article. Thought is was lame and posted as much in that thread.

Simmer down.

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. Yes it is lame....how about post that in threads that actually use it as a perjorative....

against folks that support the President....

THIS thread is the lame one....

[Aerows]

18. It is an odd phenomenon

I appreciate that you stayed on our site through the sand storm and wind storm, fire storm and ice storm of criticism barraged at you because you offered an opinion.

[Autumn]

21. Yeah I saw the title, why I became an Obamabot or something like that.

The article you posted was very good. Thank you for posting it.

[Aerows]

17. It truly is.

I also have them on ignore, so I can evaluate things with out emotional epithets being shouted and attempting to distract from valid evaluation.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

22. I wish I could live up to that standard. I've been reading some really bizarre posts...

here the past two days and...well, this happened.

[idendoit]

6. And if you exhibit an us or them mental outlook....

...you could be suffering from cognitive indifference. The inability to see much past one's nose.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

9. That would describe close to 100% of DU members.

No, 100%.

[idendoit]

11. So you're including yourself then?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

14. Do people answer your rhetorical questions?

[idendoit]

15. Didn't you just answer with a rhetorical question?

[JaneyVee]

10. So you came to Democratic Underground to complain about Obamabots?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

24. I've been a member since 2005. You weren't here!

I don't recall weeks of discussion:

1. devoted to porn, or Sports Illustrated covers
2. people rationalizing why they or others are owning the term "Obamabot"
3. polls that intentionally exclude a huge swath of members
4. threads in which the OP asks if President Carter has evidence of being spied on when Carter said he's "probably" being spied on
5. people flipping their shit because someone suggested that Skinner is too young to have lived to see other important legislation


But YOU, that's ALL know.

Sucks to be you.

[Jamaal510]

72. +1

[JI7]

13. the world does not work like this, i support Wendy Davis but she is much more conservative

than i am or even lieberman probably.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

19. That's a good point, but I think the world does work like this...

because we are at each others throats If the world didn't work like this, I would suspect we'd all sound a lot like you (reasonable). But we don't sound like you. Which begs the question: Is the hostility on DU representative of the world or not? I'd say it is.

[JI7]

20. no, not representative of the real world as there are a large number of conspiracy theorists on here

[RC]

39. Heaven knows government conspiracies are practically non-existent.

No one in our government would never conceive of any conspiracies. Gerrymandering, election fraud, 9/11 and the run up to Iraq, Bay of Pigs, Viet Nam, excuses for spying on American citizen communications in violation of the 4th Amendment. Those are ALL conspiracies.
So yeah, maybe you are correct, there are no conspiracy theories, because the conspiracies are in fact, factual, not theories.

con·spir·a·cy ( k…n-spîr“…-s¶) n. pl. con·spir·a·cies 1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design:

Our government always has our best interest in mind.

[jazzimov]

23. What is the deal with this Black/White mentality?

When opinions are multiple shades of grey?

"If you're not for us, you're against us" is a Republican midset - or at least that's what I thought. I have seen it increasingly in so-called Far Left posts recently.

According to most Political tests I've taken, idealogically I'm to the Left of Ghandi. However, I understand the power of debate and that I could be wrong. I also understand the vagaries of politics, and that 3 steps forward and 2 steps back is still one step FORWARD.

I am NOT a Third Way Democrat, but I do support Obama.

When I support Obama, I do not mean that I agree with him on all issues. However, one of the things that I have liked about him is that when he has "evolved" an opinion, he eventually embraced the stance that I had all along. Also, no one can deny that he has gotten a lot accomplished despite the opposition he has encountered.

Although I don't agree with Obama on everything, he has gotten more Progressive ideals pushed through than any one in memory.

I am a Liberal and a Progressive. I support Obama. I do NOT support Third Way policies. However, if given a choice between a Blue Dog and a Republican, I will vote for the Blue Dog every single time. If given a choice between a Blue Dog, a Republican, and a 3rd party candidate that may be closer to my own views but has no chance of winning - I'm going for the Blue Dog.

Democrats have to win in order to effect any change.

My own House Rep is one of the original Blue Dogs - yet on every single vote he has voted for the more Progressive position.

I say again:

Democrats have to win in order to effect any change.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

27. This thread isn't just for Black and White thinking. You're shades of grey was...

a great contribution.

I chose the language that I did to identify groupthink that's making me

The first responder said "I'm not because I'm not."

I really liked reading your post.

But that's just me.

[frazzled]

25. Good Lord

I wanted use the header: "If You Wrote This Post, You Are, In Fact, Suffering from Cognitive Dissonance."

But I thought that would be kind of mean; and go over the head of certain people anyway. So I decided not to.

[Drunken Irishman]

26. I bet Elizabeth Warren would consider herself an Obamabot...

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

28. Except for the part about fighting Third Way policies...

https://www.google.com/search?q=elizabeth+warren+memes&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=XKsvU6rHFMqlrQHEpoGYDQ&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=643

[Drunken Irishman]

45. Well you said it yourself ... she's suffering from dissonance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Thanks for a great article.

The last paragraph is music.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

31. Thank you nadin!

[stevenleser]

30. There are actually quite a lot of factions and variations of beliefs in the Democratic party.

What you have really told us in your OP is that you are about an "us versus them" philosophy where every Democrat and DUer fits into one of two of what you think is these neat little categories you want to put people in.

Then, not satisfied with the ugly exercise of putting a large group of people with varying beliefs into two labels, you then characterize one group as good and friends and another as bad and enemies.

Then you make numerous mistakes including the fact that Sen. Elizabeth Warren is herself a fan of the President and a former provisional member of his administration, yet you put her and the President and their respective supporters at odds in this supposed conflict within the Democratic Party.

I rather suspect that if you polled all self Described Democrats, most, like me, are fans of both Senator Elizabeth Warren and President Obama.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

32. So it's the small factions within DU that are doing all the hating...

and drowning out the larger, but less active and more reasonable voices here. I'll buy that. I don't know why those folks would want to devote much time here.

As for me characterizing groups as friends and enemies, if you don't see it, then there's A LOT you don't see.

[JI7]

33. what side does Wendy Davis fit into ?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

34. TBH, I don't really follow her. Do you think she'd identify herself as an Obamabot?

I really can't answer that question.

[JI7]

35. she is much more conservative than Obama(and lieberman) but Elizabeth Warren is supporting her

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

37. Yeah, but that's a different level of support...

As I noted the last night, Obamabots are singsong in their tempered..."criticism" (cough cough) of Obama (straight out of the Obamabot article): "he is not perfect and sometimes he gets things wrong and sometimes his strategies fail to accomplish his goals but he is a human being."

I've never regretted voting for Obama and will vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination. However, as I said there, I'm not an Obamabot because I'm critical of several policy decisions, and I voice them here. When I do voice my criticism, I hear it from the Obamabots. And I really don't know how this has escaped Steve Leser all of these years, or why he's pretending it's not at all like this?

[JI7]

38. what does any of that have to do with Wendy Davis ? you are the one who talked about sides

and i asked where wendy davis fit in

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

41. Hahaha! You asked a question that I couldn't answer. You didn't like that, so you...

asked me another question.

[JI7]

44. i asked you a question based on your OP

[stevenleser]

55. Once again, the fact that you group everyone into either friends or enemies is about you, not DU.

Of course you are not the only one doing that, but it is not the majority of people here.

[RobertEarl]

36. Please explain this:

You wrote:
""I support Obama's Third Way attacks on the Democratic Party's signature achievements: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. "'

As for Obamabots.... they are people who are caught up in the imagery of there being a singular "savior". Singularly, as compared to the last president - bush- and in many ways having much the same mindset as the bush fans of the repuglican persuasion, which just goes to show how most Americans swing.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

40. Thanks, that's why I was saying above that the world really is like DU

Which brings up something I left out: That which was wrong under the Bush Admin is OK under the Obama Admin.
You explained that phenomenon perfectly.

As for what you quoted from a previous post, I was asking the bots how they do it? How is it that you're a (I said) Liberal/Progressive Democrat and botty about attacking the Democratic Party's signature achievements.

Yeah, I am, like, saying, I don't dig you bots at all.

[RobertEarl]

42. You were quoting them?

Had I seen the quote thingees....

You implied that Obama is trying to undercut those programs and that if one were an Obamabot, then they too, were in favor of undercutting those programs. That makes sense.

Obama might say, were he here, that he understands that there are some problems with the setup of those programs, and that he is working to eliminate those problems. Which does make some sense, right?

As for my thinking on those problems, the programs are going to have to made into welfare. Meaning that the problems are so large the only solution will be to make those programs part and parcel of the government's main undertakings, and not as separated as they are now.

Back to Obamabots: They mean well, unlike the repuglicans, and we need them in the community. Trashing them and denigrating them is something the repuglicans love to see us doing. As for me, I just let them slide, they don't really do any damage. Bluedogs, however, do.

Now that sets up an interesting vision, does it not? Who truly are our better friends? Obamabots or bluedogs?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

43. Midnight in Chicago...

Thanks for the lively discussion. I know I lost more people than won over (understatement)

This was great, because I unloaded a bunch of stuff here in MY thread. I got to say:

(Back in the day...) I don't recall weeks of discussion:

1. devoted to porn or Sports Illustrated covers
2. people rationalizing why they or others are owning the term "Obamabot"
3. polls that intentionally exclude a huge swath of members
4. threads in which the OP asks if President Carter has evidence of being spied on when Carter said he's "probably" being spied on
5. people flipping their shit because someone suggested that Skinner is too young to have lived to see other important legislation
6. that which was wrong under the Bush Admin is OK under the Obama Admin

and

Link a cool article that claims:

"And yet, (the Third Way) brand of Wall Street-friendly "centrism" made a remarkable comeback after 2008, thanks in large part to the Obama White House's influence on the Democratic Party -- and to corporate money's influence on the political process."

and

There is room for shades of grey in this thread when someone took the time to discuss the shades of grey

and

let someone else explain the "bot" phenomenon using different language

and, finally, bitch slap Steve Leser That was pretty cool.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, I'll stop using #bot in other threads. Thankfully, I've only been at it for 24 hours.

Night all!

[Number23]

46. "bitch slap Steve Leser" I can totally understand why this OP has one rec

5. people flipping their shit because someone suggested that Skinner is too young to have lived to see other important legislation

Is that what you were trying to say in your response to me in that other thread? I couldn't figure it out.

No one cares about someone saying that Skinner is too young to have seen other important legislation. That person referred to Skinner as a "kid" which is a needlessly condescending thing to say about a grown man. THAT is what people objected to.

[JI7]

47. i alerted on the "bitch slap" comments but everyone voted to leave it alone

[Number23]

48. I alerted too. Got that it was left 0-6. Sorry you lost your alert privileges for a spell

over something that really should have been hidden.

Now "bitch slap" is okay. I got a post hidden (my first in like a year) for calling someone's pointless and puerile post pointless and puerile but saying you "bitch slapped" a poster here is okay. Yeah, the jury system works.

[JI7]

50. i saw that , there were a few other similar hides while sexist attacks

and other ted nugent teabag type attacks agains dems are allowed to remain.

[Boom Sound 416]

49. ...

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

58. Counters! Counters are the wealth proxy of every message board

Not a fan of counters.

People are people and people place more importance on what a member with 20,000 posts (units of wealth) says relative to one with 100 posts.

People who count post totals (wealth) and Rec totals are classists.

That sucks, Number23 (lol at the irony), but it's true.

I learned this on a forum where I have, like, 30K posts. The owner of the forum asked me to tone it down because new people, let's just say "revere" me based solely on my post total. I was all, WTF????? But that's people, and that's what people do. I told the owner to reset my counter to 5000 so that I just fit in.

I assume counters are important for message boards, but since that time, I've always thought they should be hidden. I really don't like that about human nature; the reverence people show those who've accumulated wealth.

As for Steve, I hadn't heard of him until very recently when he was talking about the lack of media coverage being devoted to some shady Romney shenanigans. That was my first interaction with him, and he and I had a brief but friendly interaction, one in which he educated me on the matter. Afterward, I noticed he had a blog, so I clicked on it. Pretty cool stuff.

Then, idk, 2 weeks later he turns up in this thread and gives me an undressing.

What would you do?

My guess is the classists here would take their beating and go away with their tails between their legs.

But that's not how I roll. Many people didn't like my thread from the start and attacked me. I smacked right back. Steve attacked me, I smacked him, too. A lot of people simply wouldn't do that, but that's their problem, and don't be mistaken, it is a problem.

[Number23]

59. Post 53 sums up this thread, and particularly this post, beautifully

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

64. 53 responses?!

I guess I struck a nerve. Usually, no one responds to my threads





OK, that was a slight exaggeration.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

66. HEY! since you're still responding to me (and I don't know why)...

I don't care what certain people think about me. Didn't that come across well before your post? I know a lot of people who felt the sting swarmed to this thread like flies to shit.

DU isn't a popularity contest and I don't live my life that way. I know that turns a lot of people off, but I know some people don't have a problem with that.

I imagine I'm outnumbered something on the order of 10 to 1. That reinforces what I already know about DU. There are a lot of people here who suffer groupthink.

Take a bow

[Number23]

68. If you're looking to keep kicking your own thread, why don't you stop pretending that I "keep"

responding to you and babbling out these incoherent posts and direct some attention to Steven Leser who you've directed some really idiotic responses to.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

70. Look numbers...

Y'all got hysterical about that comment and reported it. You, of all people, know why I made that comment as I explained it to you earlier today.

Why did I pick you? I picked you because you are a counter and I got an opportunity to rift on counters. So that worked out nicely.

If you want to continue our conversation, feel free to send me an email.

[Number23]

71. I don't know what comment you're talking about, who reported what or what the hell you are

talking about in general. But I'm beyond bored and done. Like I said, if you're interested in kicking your own thread, respond to Steven Leser. It is so very, very interesting that you keep NOT responding to him

[stevenleser]

56. You actually think you came out on top in our conversation? And what an ugly and sexist term.

Once again, what you have with this OP and comments done is to say a lot more about yourself than anyone else, starting with the obvious point that you have allowed your entire world view to devolve into a nasty example of the halo and horns effect.

You didn't come out on top in our conversation at all. You came off just as you did in the OP, as a divisive person who labels other people and considers a significant portion of DU their enemy.

[ecstatic]

51. Were you a republican at one point?

Just curious.

[NancyDL]

52. Anyone who supports the so-called "Third Way" and calls him/herself a Democrat

... is either fooling him/herself or a hypocrite, or both. If you want to be a Republican, call yourself a Republican. President Obama ran as a progressive, but backed down as soon as he was challenged. If you want another Clinton, here is your chance, but you should remember that it was Clinton who - because he was willing to compromise with Newt Gingrich - started the slide toward corporatism that has resulted in the US we experience today.

[Bobbie Jo]

53. What a bizarre thread. nt

[pnwmom]

54. President Obama expanded Medicaid -- he didn't attack it.

And he's strengthened Medicare and he hasn't agreed to a chained - CPI on Social Security.

[Amaril]

60. I really love purity-test posts.......

.....a/k/a, you must believe EVERYthing I believe, 100%, word-for-word, or you are a hypocrite / liar / suffering from cognitive dissonance / whatever disparaging remark I choose to toss in your direction even if it doesn't make sense outside my own head.

They just make me feel so warm & snuggly inside.

[LanternWaste]

61. I support the Democratic Platform...

I support the Democratic Platform... and though I realize that makes it much harder for idiots to assign a label other than Democrat to my name, I also realize that a label assigned to me by someone who can't think without labels is at best, weak-minded, at worst, an idiot.

[1000words]

69. Bookmarking

[Whisp]

62. Gack, what an authoritarian stand.

You are pegging people in your nice little pigeon holes that you can understand. Well goody for you, but you are way wrong.

I support Warren a thousand times over supporting Clinton, but because I don't shit on Obama's head every day, that means I'm a liar or am deceiving myself, because you deem yourself an expert in cognitive dissonance and possess awesome psychic abilities....

lol. keep talking, this is good.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

63. If you like taking nuanced philosophical positions...

and reducing them to cartoon stereotypes, you might belong on Fox News.

[treestar]

65. False Division

Naturally to be tried NOW, now that the election is getting closer.

[JoePhilly]

67. + 100