Creationism Is Not Being Ignored On ‘Cosmos’ — Creationists wish Tyson were ignoring creationism.

[kpete]

Creationism Is Not Being Ignored On ‘Cosmos’ — It’s Actually The Focus
BY BETSY PHILLIPS, GUEST CONTRIBUTOR ON MARCH 25, 2014 AT 9:04 AM



Actually, Tyson is deliberately and straightforwardly giving a whole lot of time to creationism. Why did we have to sit through the history of the eyeball? Creationists love to argue that the complexity of the eyeball disproves evolution. Note how he talked specifically about how the eyeball isn’t actually this perfect mechanism, but something that works well enough for what we need it for, but not as well as it does in fish — the whole idea that the eyeball is a perfect, too-complex thing is a creationist argument.

Another example: Why did Tyson spend so much time explaining the similarities and differences in how polar bears have evolved through natural selection vs. how dogs have changed in the time we’ve been breeding them for certain traits? Because creationists acknowledge that changes within species happen. They just like to pretend like one kind of organism couldn’t really have brought forth another kind of organism.

Tyson isn’t ignoring creationism. Creationists wish Tyson were ignoring creationism. Tyson is instead standing on creationism’s home turf and playing by their rules. (Every episode we’ve seen so far has contrasted the Church’s approach to these issues with science’s approach. I’ve read some complaints that Cosmos is too much in love with that old story where everything happens in Europe until white people arrive in the Americas and then some stuff gets to happen here too. But I think that complaint also misunderstands that the history of Christianity as its taught to American Christians is, by and large, that story — everything happens in Europe until some stuff starts to happen here). Tyson is taking creationists’ claims deadly seriously, and showing all the ways they’re wrong.




MORE:
http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2014/03/25/3418425/creationism-is-getting-a-lot-of-time-on-cosmos/

[Chaco Dundee]

1. yes right

How much more money will go to those freaks.creationism is a hoax.

[mindwalker_i]

2. And we need a lot more of this!

It feels like fundamentalists have had their say way too much lately, to the point where they're questioning things that have, by far, enough evidence in support. Evolution. Climate change. more complete theories that fit the evidence are quite welcome, but ignoring the evidence and replacing the theory with an invisible friend is not.

I'm all for people believing what they want, as long as it isn't used to create policy that ignores reality.

[DirkGently]

3. Have a couple more of these to watch on the DVR.

I thought the first episode took a pretty strong jab at religious ignorance, with all the talk about burning heliocentrists at the stake and so forth. Funky animation, too.

But it starting to sound like Tyson is actually AFTER the Creationist / Intelligent Design attacks on science. Wonder if he's been fuming for years, waiting for his chance to go after the new anti-intellectualism of American Christian Fundamentalism?

Hooboy. Should be fun.

[Moonwalk]

8. Tyson AND the show's creators, and the late, great Carl Sagan for that matter...

We should not forget that Tyson isn't doing this all by his lonesome. A lot of folk are working on this show, underwriting it, creating the scripts, etc. Which makes me feel very positive about it, because it means that Tyson isn't out there on his lonesome. This isn't his one-man show. And though, as spokesman, he's going to be fielding the shots as well as accepting most of the accolades, he, nevertheless, isn't going to be tossed under the bus like so many have when they've spoken uncomfortable but important truths.

This show has got his back, and is as much about gunning down ignorance in any shape or form (it gets very multicultural when it covers all the different views of comets as bad omens. Good move!) as it is about the joys of science. That's the show, not Tyson (or just Tyson).

[DirkGently]

9. I've got to think he has a strong say in any editorial

message getting through though, don't you? Of course it's a huge collaborative effort, but just as Sagan's trademark was the staggering wonder of the "billions and billions" of stars and planets, I'm grokking that maybe Tyson's trademark is going to be aggressive debunking of ignorant attacks on science.

But as I said, I've only seen the one so far. I was struck by the story of burning an astronomer at the stake, and the OP's description seems to suggest that's borne out in the other episodes.

I do have to think a particular discussion of the evolution of the eye, for example, would be aimed right at creationists, who have tried to float some idea that "super complex structures" or the like could not be the result of evolution ("... and therefore our religious assumptions must be correct.&quot

[Moonwalk]

13. I'm sure he does, as he's the one who (as I said) will be fielding the shots. BUT...

...are you forgetting Sagan's "Demon Haunted World"? That book came out in 1995 and though it wasn't specifically aimed at creationists, it was as aggressive as Tyson is being in debunking attacks on science. Tyson is carrying on Carl Sagan's last and most important torch there in this version of Cosmos.

AND Sagan's wife is co-creator.

So, yes, Tyson has to be in agreement with all this otherwise he wouldn't be saying it...because the e-mails are going to go to his inbox. BUT if the show's creators and writers and such were not in agreement with it, it wouldn't be in the scripts no matter what Tyson thought. He's been on plenty of shows where he never said an anti-creationism word. This show could be just like those, if the creators/producers, etc. wanted it that way. They could be tippy-toing around the issue rather than facing it head on.

So while I give Tyson plenty of credit, I think we also have to be proud and give plenty of credit to those behind him. He couldn't be doing or saying all this on his own, not with the way such shows are budgeted, made, etc.

[DirkGently]

15. Aha. Didn't know of Sagan's debunking, or had forgotten.

I know a young Master Tyson turned down a personal invitation to attend Sagan's university, but not out of any lack of respect.

It's especially cool to think the rebooting of Cosmos is really trying to pay homage to Sagan' contributions to public understanding of and appreciation for physical sciences, cosmology, astronomy, etc.

I miss Carl. But Tyson is pretty great himself.

[exboyfil]

26. Episode 3 of original

Cosmos talks about how Kepler was excommunicated from the Lutheran church and had to fight to keep his mother alive when she was imprisoned and tortured for witchcraft. Many other older women at that time were executed for witchcraft.

Sagan's closing comment,

When Kepler found his long-cherished belief did not agree with the
most precise observation, he accepted the uncomfortable fact.
He preferred the hard truth to his dearest illusions; that is the heart of science.
Carl Sagan
http://lach.web.arizona.edu/responsibility_truth_heart_science


I am watching Tyson's Cosmos and then watching Sagan's equivalent numbered episode. They fit together nicely. Sagan's Cosmos is so much better, but Tyson is doing a good job. His third episode was the strongest in my opinion. Using actors and costumes (the original Cosmos) is more effective than the animation.

[Hestia]

35. We're watching Cosmos on Nat'l Geographic and there is a reason for animation

rather than actors - kids get bored with reenactments, but pay attention when it is animated. It is a special type of animation to Seth McFarland - they tried to get the wide back scenes to actually look like towns, ships, etc. There is a lot of shadow working and the colors are different from what he usually does. There was a special behind the scenes look during Episode 3.

I thought the parts about Halley and Newton were fascinating - never read the bio's of the scientists so this was all new to me. Also learned how to pronounce "Principia", with a hard c instead of an s.

I too wanted to watch both Cosmos' side by side but Netflix took it off their listing before this showing. Figures...I have never seen the original Cosmos and have wanted to watch it for years. I may get to one day.

[exboyfil]

36. Google Cosmos and you

can find a streaming site (after 30 years I don't think I am stealing money out of PBS or Sagan's estate's pocket). It is like the first entry that comes up when you Google Cosmos Sagan episode 3.

[Hestia]

38. Thank you! Appreciate the answer

[JackInGreen]

31. Try episode three

I think the title is 'when knowledge conquered fear', it addresses the question of the 'Clockmaker' directly.

[SunSeeker]

4. Exactly. nt

[randr]

5. Creationism is by no means the focus

The eyeball example was a classic explanation of how systems evolve, how the creationists latched onto this example is a mystery.
The discussion of bears came to have different coats and dogs have developed into multiple breeds was an other excellent explanation, this time on natural vs artificial selection.
Any contrast noted between these discussions and religious dogma are imaginary.
Science belongs in the classroom.
Religion belongs in church.

[joshcryer]

11. Darwin uses the eye example in Origins...

It's used because Darwin used the "persuasive" argument since he obviously had no empirical data to prove it. That data of course eventually came.

[northoftheborder]

18. "Science belongs in the classroom. Religion belongs in church." YES.

[DhhD]

28. Biochemistry of the cells of the Animalia eye link human cells to the cells of another Kingdom.

So that is going back to the ocean billions of years before primates diverged from each other. Cell types and biochemistry/genetics show the real link, thus evolution of the human based on cells. In order of human organization, there is a cell, cells make up tissues, tissues make up organs, organs make up systems, systems make up the human body.

Bioluminescent cells are found in many organisms that live in the deep dark oceans. Retinal cells in the back of the human eye produce color chemistry, if you will.

http://www.seasky.org/deep-sea/biolumiscence.html

The substance Luciferin + oxygen produces Oxyluciferin or light.

http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/prayingtoanewgod.html
Lucifer, Satan or the Fallen Angel

[DhhD]

29. This is just one of the (real) missing links that religion is afraid to admit to.

[Leith]

6. He Should Have Said

That he wished that Cosmos would flatter creationism and take it seriously. But that would be too close to yet another truth.

[Gothmog]

7. Cosmos and NDT are great

I love this show. The fact that the religious nutcases are upset is a bonus

[colsohlibgal]

10. Bible Cherry Pickers

I love it how the creationists and other true believers only pick out some parts of the Bible to prove their irrational views while ignoring other rules and points.

Also, never mind that a good part of the Bible was written hundreds of years later then these "events" and what's in and out of the Bible is based on arbitrary decisions and agendas.

Neil is doing a great job, the late great Carl Sagan would be proud.

[1awake]

19. well... that's because if you know the bible you shouldn't be following all of the rules.

People who don't know make statements like that. Just saying.

Cosmos so far is really good and he's doing an excellent job!

[Maynar]

22. ^^This

"I love it how the creationists and other true believers only pick out some parts of the Bible to prove their irrational views while ignoring other rules and points."

Ken Ham, anyone?

edited for quotes

[Moonwalk]

12. K&R! Bravo Betsy Phillips. Nailed it on the head...

If Cosmos had kept the "E" word (Evolution) a small "e" with no reference to religious objections to it and why they're wrong, it wouldn't be getting the response it's getting from creationists. Plenty of science shows have gone over the same ground, but left out reasons why creationists are wrong.

But this show is challenging those who want to keep children from learning about evolution, both in the way it's made a splash ("Oh no! Kids might watch it!&quot and in the fact that it challenges the other side. With the comet episode, it even went so far as to point out the ignorant view of other cultures about what a comet was and what it meant. Thus emphasizing that it wasn't anti-Christian, but anti-ignorance in any form.

Of course it's got the fundies scared spitless. It's friendly, inclusive, fun, and has every chance of making people change their mind about science being the big, bad evil.

[R Merm]

14. I think that the Creationists should boycott FOX for showing Cosmos. eom

[Spitfire of ATJ]

16. "....everything happens in Europe until white people arrive..."

There are idiots who believe Jesus was actually crucified LOCALLY,...up on that hill with the three crosses that overlooks their little town.

[klook]

32. Plus, Tyson COMPLETELY ignores the important scientific breakthroughs that were happening in the USA

during Isaac Newton's lifetime (1642-1727)! Why does he hate America?1!/?/11?!!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. Must be a black thing.

[klook]

37. Dark Matter (n/t)

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

17. Kudos to Tyson and Bill Nye for trying to educate the ignorant.

They have a big job to do.

[NastyRiffraff]

20. It's been awhile since I've raved about a TV show

I think West Wing was the last time. But I love, love, LOVE this Cosmos. Almost the entire first episode was a big fat punch in the eye to Creationism. Many, many kudos!

[rocktivity]

21. Yes, I noticed that, too

Especially the when he said that some adhere to the idea of humans not being part of the the evolutionary "tree" because it makes them feel "special" -- ouch!


rocktivity

[Nanjing to Seoul]

23. The third episode about Haley, Newton and Hooks was just brilliant

I could listen to him and Bill Nye for decades, never get bored and never feel spoken down to.

Each time I went to my grandmother's Catholic Church, I had the opposite effect. Luckily, as tried and true as my grandmother's faith in Catholicism was, she was never a creationist and taught me to question everything, even what the Father said.

I was raised in a mixed faith house. I drifted to the Jewish side more than the Catholic side.

[JDPriestly]

24. I'm looking forward to watching this series on Netflix. (Don't have TV reception.)

[Blue_Adept]

39. Why wait?

It's already streaming on Hulu.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/604551

[Cannikin]

40. There is a delay for the newest episode on Hulu

unless you are a Plus subscriber. Fox.com has the episode available the next day.

[Android3.14]

25. This series is going to do a lot for rational thought

The OP is spot on.

[CrispyQ]

27. Rational people are finally getting disgusted with the media amplifying the loony voices

louder than they actually are. It's time to put them in their place & make them for the fools they are. Climate change is real you fucking morans, & it's caused by human activity. Pull your head out of your ass & start acting like the goddamned pinnacle of creation that you think you are.

Kudos to NDT & Fox Entertainment for producing this show. It is so badly needed!

And special love to Bill Nye the Science Guy. BTW, I saw him on CNN a few months ago & Carol Costello was absolutely rude to him. WTF? You invite someone to your show & then you are rude to them. I wrote to CNN but we all know what good that does.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

30. !!!!!

😄

[Orsino]

34. Every scientific tenet of creationism is being carefully examined in the series.

it's just that that total is zero.