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Stuart G

(38,650 posts)
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:07 AM Apr 2014

Nevada Cattle Rancher..vs Waco...

Let's say they fought it out...ok....?????

Do youremember this....Waco ??? ....(.February 28 and April 19, 1993.)

The incident began when the ATF attempted to raid the ranch. An intense gun battle erupted, resulting in the deaths of four agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's failure to raid the compound, a siege was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the standoff lasting 51 days. Eventually, the FBI launched an assault and initiated a tear gas attack in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out. During the attack, a fire engulfed Mount Carmel Center and 76 men, women, and children,[ including David Koresh, died.

Much dispute remains as to the actual events of the siege. A particular controversy ensued over the origin of the fire; a government investigation concluded in 2000 that sect members themselves had started the fire. The events at Waco were cited as the primary motivation for the perpetrators of the Oklahoma City bombing that took place exactly two years later in 1995.(.bombing killed 168 people and injured more than 680 others).....(April 19, 1995)


So, avoiding even the possibility of something like Waco, is in my opinion, a very good thing. Lots of talk, no one hurt.. Let people talk. When we avoid even the possibility of lots of deaths, and worse, that is wisdom...
Maybe, we have learned something.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Nevada Cattle Rancher..vs Waco... (Original Post) Stuart G Apr 2014 OP
Sure point taken but... Moliere Apr 2014 #1
I don't think we are doomed. Stuart G Apr 2014 #3
it's already been 20 years TorchTheWitch Apr 2014 #6
I agree strongly Trust Buster Apr 2014 #13
+1. (nt) Paladin Apr 2014 #16
Yes, I agree with this, about wisdom. kick Lysistrada Apr 2014 #2
You got it madokie Apr 2014 #4
In a few days Half-Century Man Apr 2014 #5
Yep, there have been many showing up to have a "battle" glowing Apr 2014 #7
When the feds arrested the Browns (New Hampshire, I think) Ilsa Apr 2014 #8
The incident began when the ATF attempted to raid the ranch. stonecutter357 Apr 2014 #9
Exactly Major Nikon Apr 2014 #14
No one should die over this. TNNurse Apr 2014 #10
I'm wondering if the IRS could go after these guys. Surely they have been up to some CTyankee Apr 2014 #11
I hope he doesn't get away with it n2doc Apr 2014 #12
I agree that the Feds are just emboldening these creeps to carry out...... Trust Buster Apr 2014 #15


(285 posts)
1. Sure point taken but...
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:22 AM
Apr 2014

How do you address the fact that a group of people used guns to violate a court order and a law they don't like? If that's the new precedent then we're all doomed

Stuart G

(38,650 posts)
3. I don't think we are doomed.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:28 AM
Apr 2014

I think that this is the beginning of a lengthy process against these law breakers. Yes, we didn't shoot it out with them, but I am sure there is some other way. We will see


(11,065 posts)
6. it's already been 20 years
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 07:17 AM
Apr 2014

They should have called in the feds a long time ago, and definitely called them in this time as well seeing as they were threatened with guns. Instead these gun toting nuts got everything they wanted and LE ran away.

Had this asshole been dealt with 20 years ago he would not have become so emboldened. I've never heard of anyone threatening law enforcement with guns and getting everything they want no matter how illegal and just walking off scott free. Why aren't him and his militia buddies sitting in jail right now????

Like it or not a violent stand off is going to happen at some point because these freaks refuse to back down, and now they know they can get away with pointing guns at law enforcement, get everything they want and just walk away.

Worse, because of this horrible outcome plenty of other freaks with guns will think they can do the same thing. And they will.


(20 posts)
2. Yes, I agree with this, about wisdom. kick
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:22 AM
Apr 2014

I do recall learning that wisdom is one of the most expensive ideas that a person or group can attain. It isn't cheap by any means..

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
5. In a few days
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:58 AM
Apr 2014

They will be dispersed and unarmed (or less armed).
And Mr Rancher still lives where he lives.
And his access to that land is over (so I'm guessing).
And nobody fired at anybody else. Always a win.



(12,233 posts)
7. Yep, there have been many showing up to have a "battle"
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 07:44 AM
Apr 2014

You know those militia, gun nutter's are itching to use their weapons. The FBI is just collecting names and faces for their data bases and taking info on what types of fire power they brought to the ranch.

They won't stay out there forever. They think they won a battle. Couple of weeks go by without any incidents and command backed off, they can go back in and arrest the family and do the cattle round up.

BTW, talk about free loading moochers who refuse to pay their fare share... But use the rest of us.


(61,802 posts)
8. When the feds arrested the Browns (New Hampshire, I think)
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:03 AM
Apr 2014

they took their time, even infiltrated their supporters. Then, when they had access on the property, they made clean peaceful arrests. The Browns are serving 35 year sentences.


(12,732 posts)
9. The incident began when the ATF attempted to raid the ranch.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:06 AM
Apr 2014

No it began when a gun nut with a religious fetish started hoarding guns.

Major Nikon

(36,868 posts)
14. Exactly
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:10 AM
Apr 2014

Not to mention the only dispute which remains over the actual events exists in the small minds of the wingnuttiest of wingnuts.


(6,990 posts)
10. No one should die over this.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:38 AM
Apr 2014

It is a bad plan to solve our problems with violence. We should be better than that. This needs to be solved, but there is not a sense of urgency. This man says the land is his, does he have a deed? Can he produce it?. If he has a lease, has he paid for it? If none of those are true, that land is partly mine and I am not going to Nevada to claim a cow or two but they need to be moved off "my" public land until his back payments are made.

The Wild West was a long time ago.


(64,134 posts)
11. I'm wondering if the IRS could go after these guys. Surely they have been up to some
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:52 AM
Apr 2014

financial shenanigans as well. I can imagine all kinds of hell the IRS could create in these goons lives...


(47,953 posts)
12. I hope he doesn't get away with it
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:56 AM
Apr 2014

So far he has gotten everything he has wanted, cattle back, feds gone. I have suggested that perhaps the best and simplest way is to go after his federal subsidies and bank accounts, take the court-ordered penalties and fees from them. Let's see just how long he holes up then.


Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
15. I agree that the Feds are just emboldening these creeps to carry out......
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:14 AM
Apr 2014

......greater defiance in the future. I thought our government doesn't "negotiate with terrorists"? As if inequality isn't bad enough in this country. Now these people can refuse to pay taxes because they're better and deserving of more privilege than us. Keep telling yourself that.

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