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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:32 AM Apr 2014

Paying for America's War Machine Is a Terrible Waste of Tax Money

http://www.alternet.org/world/biggest-waste-your-money-taxes-are-paying-americas-war-machine

On April 14, the eve of tax day and ironically (or appropriately) Global Day of Action Against Military Spending, the Pentagon plans to launch a brand new weapon system, one that uses electric pulses to project a 40-pound missile the distance from New York City to Philadelphia at a speed of 5,600 mph. The U.S. Navy spent more than $4 billion to develop and build its stealth destroyer, the USS Zumwalt, a key element in President Obama's announced “pivot to the Pacific.” It's expected that the Zumwalt will be patrolling the coast of China soon at further – as yet undetermined – expense to U.S. taxpayers.

When we're told by our elected officials that we can't afford full funding for education, SNAP (food stamps), Head Start, or unemployment compensation, how is it that we can afford the endless “War on Terror” plus a pivot to East Asia? Expecting a peace divided as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan wind down is wishful thinking: President Obama still proposes to spend a whopping 55% of federal discretionary funds for Fiscal Year 2015 on the military.

In addition, we can expect still more spending on what normal people call “war funding” but Pentagon doublespeak calls “Overseas Contingency Operations” (OCO), a budget which is not subject to caps or cuts under sequestration. In 2014, Congress provided $85 billion for OCO, which has become a slush fund for the Pentagon to use on whatever.

President Obama’s FY15 budget also includes $28 billion for the “Opportunity, Growth, and Security Initiative.” He explained that this budget line would enable the Pentagon to “accelerate the schedules for developing and buying new or upgraded systems.”
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Paying for America's War Machine Is a Terrible Waste of Tax Money (Original Post) xchrom Apr 2014 OP
Kick.... daleanime Apr 2014 #1
Kick.... daleanime Apr 2014 #2
Kick.... daleanime Apr 2014 #3
K&R.... daleanime Apr 2014 #4
Last time I checked... doxydad Apr 2014 #5
Because guns are cool Major Nikon Apr 2014 #8
+1 daleanime Apr 2014 #19
Well, that's because children and the elderly are lazy moochers. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #28
It's time for real progressives nyabingi Apr 2014 #6
+1 We need to focus on the real enemies. L0oniX Apr 2014 #15
And the jury results are in... aikoaiko Apr 2014 #26
+1 a whole bunch! Enthusiast Apr 2014 #29
As a veteran of the US Navy, I saw first hand the wasteful spending on B Calm Apr 2014 #7
How do we get our party off MIC money? dreamnightwind Apr 2014 #9
Anyone ctsnowman Apr 2014 #10
We have to have a war with someone. Enthusiast Apr 2014 #30
I was just at the christening of the Zumwalt in Maine DFW Apr 2014 #11
It's not a total waste Major Nikon Apr 2014 #12
Republicans throw cash into the wind or stuff it in their pockets DFW Apr 2014 #18
I live in Maine. At least some of the same people who's jobs were saved building the Zumwalt magical thyme Apr 2014 #16
Amen.... daleanime Apr 2014 #20
I saw your Gov. Teabagger here. What a dork! DFW Apr 2014 #23
I never suggested that Zumwalt drew money out of Maine's budget magical thyme Apr 2014 #31
We are subsidizing other countries defense. L0oniX Apr 2014 #13
+1 nt Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2014 #21
A great deal of our technology and engineering base is oriented towards defense. Adrahil Apr 2014 #14
More for war but no more for the poor uponit7771 Apr 2014 #17
k/r marmar Apr 2014 #22
"Prussia is not a state that has an army, but an army that has a state." Mirabeau Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #24
K&R jwirr Apr 2014 #25
Instead of "tax freedom day" we should announce "military-spending freedom day" phantom power Apr 2014 #27

doxydad

(1,363 posts)
5. Last time I checked...
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 06:55 AM
Apr 2014

U.S.A. had 34 times more armaments than our nearest ally. Why do we need 34 times MORE weapons? WHY?

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
6. It's time for real progressives
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 07:36 AM
Apr 2014

inside and outside of the Democratic party to support real anti-war, anti-military industrial complex candidates when election time comes around. Obama, Clinton, etc. are fully within the pro-war, pro-corporate sphere and they intend to keep giving all of our tax dollars to Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Boeing, and all the corporations who's life blood is government welfare - there's too much incentive for these corporations to instigate and carry out decades-long wars.

This country is dying a slow, agonizing death because the left has been complacent and fooled by lofty "hope" and "change" rhetoric when what we've actually gotten is a repeat of Bush with a few less neo-conservatives calling the shots.

aikoaiko

(34,170 posts)
26. And the jury results are in...
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:59 PM
Apr 2014

On Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:50 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

It's time for real progressives
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4819375

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dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
9. How do we get our party off MIC money?
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:09 AM
Apr 2014

Love the OP, it's a huge issue that needs way more discussion than it receives.

Both major parties compete for the money they get from the defense industry, so how is ever going to turn around?

I don't know if this is accurate or not, but that it is even debatable is an illustration of the problem.
Obama Beats McCain in Defense Industry Contributions - TIME
http://content.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1855478,00.html

For now, the best we can do is to keep raising awareness of it. It's somehow been made uncool to criticize or want vast reduction of our country's military. Time to break that taboo.

ctsnowman

(1,903 posts)
10. Anyone
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:14 AM
Apr 2014

who thinks China is going to let us blockade them or attack their coast with naval battle groups hasn't thought this through. I don't believe for a second that this is anything more than a jobs program (and for some an ego trip) that could be turned around and used to improve OUR country instead of having our noses halfway around the globe.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
30. We have to have a war with someone.
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 04:17 AM
Apr 2014

Otherwise all this military hardware will go unused. Our troops might grow rusty from not engaging in battle.

DFW

(54,397 posts)
11. I was just at the christening of the Zumwalt in Maine
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:17 AM
Apr 2014

The best speeches were those by Ann Zumwalt and Sen. Angus King on Maine. Ann remembered her father, who was hated by the Navy top brass for wanting to reform the Navy and make life more bearable for its sailors. Bud Zumwalt said he had friends and he had enemies, and was proud of both. Nixon hated his guts, which speaks highly of him. Ann is a good friend of ours, and her daughters are friends with ours.

Sen. King said his biggest hope was for the sailors of the USS Zumwalt to never have to use their huge destructive capacity in anger, but for it to be a deterrent. The ship was also designed to run with just half the crew size of current destroyers.

The $4 billion cost of the ship was huge, and the originally planned 30 ships of this design had been reduced to 10 and then down to just three. The small communities in that part of Maine are grateful for the 5000 plus jobs it brought to an otherwise economically depressed part of the country and the tax revenue brought with it. The money wasn't a total waste. Thom Hartmann's ripple theory works here, too. You can only sell so many lobsters, after all.

Angus King is one of the more approachable Senators I have known. Anyone from Maine can probably arrange a chat with him if you call in advance. Really a price of a guy. Unfortunately Elmo Zumwalt died in January of the year my family met his, so I never knew him. However, if his daughters and granddaughters are any indication, he must have been an amazing man, too.

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For the record, I don't think the purpose of this ship has anything at all to do with China, but more as a symbol of support for southeast Asian nations.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
12. It's not a total waste
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 08:35 AM
Apr 2014

It's just a terrible use of tax dollars. You're better off taking wads of cash and throwing it in the wind. At least that way the money doesn't collect with those who need it the least.

DFW

(54,397 posts)
18. Republicans throw cash into the wind or stuff it in their pockets
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:16 PM
Apr 2014

This at least serves a purpose, and a lot of the money stays in Maine.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
16. I live in Maine. At least some of the same people who's jobs were saved building the Zumwalt
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:41 AM
Apr 2014

also cheered our unprovoked attack on Iraq and the war in Afghanistan. They didn't give a flying fuck back then how many people died (and a few have told me so, pretty much in those words) so long as they could continue driving their pickup trucks to work and guzzling beer while snowmobiling on weekends. I know some of them personally; I'm not just speaking off the top of my head here. They're part of the 38% that gave us Gov. Teabagger.

Their engineering and building skills would be put to better use designing and building wind and sea turbines and geothermal systems, and rebuilding rail lines and other infrastructure to help reduce our oil guzzling.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. This was a total waste of money. Better to have re-trained those people to produce something we desperately need and of lasting value.

DFW

(54,397 posts)
23. I saw your Gov. Teabagger here. What a dork!
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 12:32 PM
Apr 2014

The jerk could barely read his speech, and it wasn't a study in eloquence to begin with. I was standing next to him for a while, but couldn't think of anything I wanted to say to him. Nor, apparently, could anyone else. Everyone wanted to talk to Sen. King and the Zumwalt family.

I respect your disagreement, but find it partly misplaced. The Zumwalt was a federal project, and did not draw out tax money from the state budget of Maine, whose state government decides about wind and thermal energy production. The US Navy's budget wouldn't have been available for that anyway. I'm sure most enterprises in Maine employ some pick-up driving teabaggers--as a Texan I'm no stranger to them. But if we can retire some old ships that are obsolete and replace them with half that number, needing fewer personnel, that is energy-saving, too, and also a source of employment. There are plenty of people who feel as strongly as you or I do about our folly in Iraq and Afghanistan who still respect the need for a military, albeit one built on efficiency, and put to sensible use.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
31. I never suggested that Zumwalt drew money out of Maine's budget
Tue Apr 15, 2014, 10:07 AM
Apr 2014

and I'm not sure where you're pulling that claim from. I'm fully aware that the military budget is federal.

That's the same federal budget that gave us a watered down stimulus for shovel-ready projects, when what was really desperately needed was a massive stimulus to re-build our infrastructure.

And it's the same federal budget that provides for a massive, grotesquely bloated military and that leaves domestic projects starved for funds.


"I'm sure most enterprises in Maine employ some pick-up driving teabaggers." Some = 38%. Hence LePage's nickname, Gov. 38%. And iirc, BIW is the largest employer in Maine.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
14. A great deal of our technology and engineering base is oriented towards defense.
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 09:32 AM
Apr 2014

We have to be careful here and not look to simply destroy our technology industrial base, but rather look to reorient it. If we spent that money instead on green energy infrastructure, or space exploration, or advanced transportation concepts, we'd maintain technological prominence, but with things that have a direct impact not only jobs for people, but on our national quality of life, and a legacy that will last generations.

phantom power

(25,966 posts)
27. Instead of "tax freedom day" we should announce "military-spending freedom day"
Mon Apr 14, 2014, 05:51 PM
Apr 2014

On what day of the year are Americans finished paying off our military spending budget?

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