Proof the ACA "Circle the Wagons" Story is Bull$hit

[okaawhatever]

We were told yet another story about some poor woman who is going to die because of the ACA. Replete with sentences like But I am not going to keep my mouth shut and watch Opal and people like her get sick and die, and The fluid filled lungs, her fear, my anger---they are all real. for maximum effect. Problem is, the story is complete bullshit and here's why:

Lie number one: Bronze plan costs pennies per month Truth: Bronze plan costs zero
Lie number two: Next plan was $100 more per month Truth: Silver plan costs start at $12 per month with total deductible & out of pocket $500. That is for an HMO.

For a PPO "Opal" could get a plan for $102 per month with $500 deductible and $500 total out-of-pocket. The ABSOLUTE MOST "Opal" would pay is $148.67 per month for open heart surgery, extended hospital stay, all medications, and coverage by most doctors. And when I say most Doctors, it includes all the same Doctors the regular PPO Blue Cross members in Texas get. Here are the details from the ACA website:

Medical deductible (per individual) $500
Prescription drug deductible (per individual) $0
Out-of-pocket maximum (per year): $500

Out-of-pocket maximum (per individual) $500
Health care out-of-pocket maximum (per individual) $500
Prescription drug out-of-pocket maximum (per individual) Included in Medical
Copayments/Coinsurance:

Primary doctor $30
Specialist doctor $50
Inpatient doctor No Charge after Deductible
In-Patient facility $250 Copay per Stay
Emergency room $500
Generic prescription No Charge
Preferred brand prescription $50
Non-preferred brand prescription $100
Specialty prescription $150

https://www.healthcare.gov/find-premium-estimates/#results/&aud=indv&type=med&state=TX&county=Dallas&age0=50&employerCoverage=no&householdSize=1&income=12000
_______________
These numbers are for Anderson County, TX because that is the first county on the list. I did look at Dallas, since the story mentions "urban" and I thought Dallas would be a good example. The costs were actually cheaper than in Anderson County. The bronze plan is still free, the silver is $10 and so on....

Please don't allow people to lie to us with these bull$hit stories. From the story itself.
What kind of Democrat would ask another Democrat to keep quiet about the suffering of the chronically ill? No Democrat, that’s who


I ask, what kind of Democrat would put such complete and utter bullcrapola on DU? No Democrat, that's who. Just because someone has a lot of posts doesn't mean they aren't a troll. It just means they're better at not getting caught. Someone can't even lie and say they had good intentions by passing on a story that seemed believable. Really? Anyone who knows the basics of the ACA knows the story is a lie. They know that there is no author mentioned, was it McCamy Taylor's original work? If not, why no link to where it was originally posted? Also, why aren't there the details needed to verify the story? It's pretty simple. The ACA plans and pricing are on the internet for anyone who knows a few basic pieces of info. Why not include those basic pieces of info, if your intent MCamy is to be honest?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

1. I didn't think calling out DUers by name was permitted.

I have no idea about the claim presented in the thread--I just glanced at it and moved along. But if calling DUers out by name and accusing them of lying is now kosher, do let me know, because I have a few threads of my own to start in that event.

[okaawhatever]

3. Well, they presented something as factual, that clearly was not. In the past people have accused

others of not mentioning names, so I thought I would. It's not the individual's opinion i'm challenging it's their facts. Or the facts of the story they decided to post without linking to an article. Promoting lies is not kosher, especially something that can easily be fact-checked. The poster writes fiction and has a link to his/her fiction writing site, clearly such an author would know how to do the most cursory fact check.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

4. To be clear, I'm not alerting. I was just wondering. nt

[moriah]

13. I've heard LOTS of peole suggesting going for Gold plans when Silver plans are better in their....

... income bracket.

I can picture someone getting bamboozled into thinking the Bronze plans are better without realizing the Silver plans have cost-sharing help.

[napi21]

27. A rep from the ACA explained that to my cousin. I helped her signup

because she's quite intimidated by computers. I too thought the Gold plans were the best, but we called the 800# and they were kind enough to explain the benefits. My cousin is VERY HAPPY with the plan she signed up for and is spreading the news to all her Pub friends in Pgh, Pa.

[DURHAM D]

6. As far as I know call outs are not against the rules

although I have served on juries when the Alerter uses it for the reason to Hide and a lot of people seem to think it is a DU RULE.

[Capt. Obvious]

8. There are no rules, just CS

If the jury thinks that is okay then it stands - if not, then it doesn't.

[DURHAM D]

9. Someone should make a Public Service Announcement.

[Capt. Obvious]

10. Skinner makes it all the time in ATA

[DURHAM D]

11. Who is Skinner?

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[Capt. Obvious]

14. Google says

[Junkdrawer]

22. .

Wait, wait. That's Muleskinner. My bad.

[MADem]

26. There are no "rules" anymore and I didn't see an insult in the OP's comments.

The post referenced, though, is by a DUer who did a post-and-run, in essence, throwing down a stinking heap of insinuation and then not staying to "tend" the thread. At all. Here, you don't have to believe me, this link will take you to the original effort:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4818728

More than a few people took exception. The poster didn't even return to defend his own remarks.

I didn't like the whole 'tone' of the piece, to say nothing of the effort to blame the POTUS instead of the asshole governor for the woman's woes. I participated in the thread to that effect, too.

[jberryhill]

2. I like the HIPPA violation, personally

Let's get Opal's chart posted...

[Tarheel_Dem]

5. They won't stop trying, no matter how many times they've been shown to be outright lying.

Whaddya gonna do? Never forget, there's a great deal of money being spent to disseminate these confusing lies. The shame is that by the time they're debunked, the disseminator has moved on to a fresh new untruth. It's like whack-a-mole.

After Getting Pummelled By Fact Checkers Koch Brothers Dump Obamacare Horror Story Ads
By: Jason Easley
Tuesday, March, 18th, 2014, 2:08 pm



The Koch brothers spent millions of dollars on ads that focused on bogus ACA horror stories, but after being eviscerated by fact checkers, the Koch boys have changed their course.

The infamous cancer Obamacare victim ad that Sarah Jones described as, “An ad so misleading that even conservatives won’t back its Obamacare claims. In the Americans for Prosperity ad aimed at destroying Michigan Democratic Senate candidate Rep. Gary Peters, Julie Boonstra inaccurately claims that Obamacare is threatening her cancer treatment and that it “jeopardized my health.”

Because of the negative backlash, it appears that the Koch brothers are trying a new approach. Instead of claiming that the ACA will literally kill you, Koch money is now being spent on ads that argue that the law doesn’t work.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/18/pummelled-fact-checkers-koch-brothers-dump-obamacare-horror-story-ads.html

[Capt. Obvious]

7. I predict a medal in your future

You are a profile in courage.

[Sentath]

12. My bronze plan is almost $100/mo

How badly did I {bleep} up?

[Capt. Obvious]

15. The OP says your plan is zero

Something doesn't add up.

[moriah]

16. I dunno where your income level is....

... but unless you use no health care at all or very little, you might have done better to be in a Silver plan due to the cost-sharing help there.

I can picture some old lady getting confused and not knowing the right things. That's not the fault of the ACA but the ACA's counselors who are telling people to go for Bronze or Gold plans when they're below 250% of the poverty line and they get cost-sharing benefits under Silver plans.

(At my income level, my Silver plan is less than $83 a month and while a few of my prescriptions are expensive, I'll get through my $1200 out of pocket maximum in a few months.

[Sentath]

18. On my exchange (AZ) it didn't appear to matter if I went Bronze or Silver for cost sharing..

It looked like I got the same support either way.

Silver was just much more expensive.

And, I do not use much healthcare yet in my lower 40's.

[okaawhatever]

17. That depends on where you live and what your income is. Texas is probably pretty cheap since their

cost of living there is very inexpensive. If you didn't qualify for a subsidy or less of a subsidy than the story that would be a factor as well.

[Make7]

19. Tarrant County

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/07/1290204/-A-5000-Deductible-Is-Not-Affordable-Three-PCPs-in-Your-County-Is-Not-Care

[okaawhatever]

21. ROFL Oh Goodee...more b.s. of hers I get to prove wrong. Goodness, where to begin....

She's all kinds of wrong when she says "There are three---count them THREE---primary care providers (pcps) in the county that accept HMO."
From the ACA website. For Tarrant County (not all, just Ft. Worth). Blue Cross HMO providers:

"Campbell, Robert L, DO
Gender: Male
# NPI: 1992929947
544 W Seminary Dr
J [phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Bowie Memorial
Hospital, Eastland Memorial Hospital, Palo
Pinto General Hospital
Clinic Affiliation: Oak Cliff Medical
Treatmentclinic
Board Certifications: Family Practice
Language(s): Spanish
Fort Worth "Chiu, Joe N, MD
Gender: Male
NPI: 1598751927
108 E Seminary Dr
J [phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Plaza Medical Center
Fort Worth
Board Certifications: Family Practice
Language(s): Chinese, German,
Indonesian, Spanish
Fort WorthGrimes, Tate A, MD
Gender: Male
NPI: 1477588200
908 W Terrell N
[phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Medical City Dallas
Hospital
Clinic Affiliation: Wellness In Sleep PA
Board Certifications: None
Language(s): Spanish
Fort Worth "Hoffman, Bryan P, DO
Gender: Male
NPI: 1013965045
1200 Woodhaven Blvd
J [phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Dallas Medical Center
Llc
Clinic Affiliation: Hwy 30 Family Medical
Center PA
Board Certifications: Family Practice
Language(s): Spanish
Fort WorthHoffman, Michael D, DO
Gender: Male
# NPI: 1265480552
1200 Woodhaven Blvd
[phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Dallas Medical Center
Llc, University General Hosp Dallas
Clinic Affiliation: Hwy 30 Family Medical
Center PA
Board Certifications: None
Language(s): Spanish
Fort Worth Lamarre, Louise, MD
Gender: Female NPI: 1760595011
5601 Bridge St
Ste 550
[phone]
NPI: 1760595011
5601 Bridge St Ste 550
J [phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Medical City Dallas
Hospital
Clinic Affiliation: Greentree Health
WorthOei, Kwan K, MD
Gender: Male
NPI: 1720071434
3110 Greene Ave
J [phone]
Board Certifications: None
Language(s): Indonesian, Sign Language,
Spanish
Fort Worth "Sattar, Bibi T, DO
Gender: Female
# NPI: 1477728079
5801 Oakbend Trl
Ste 250
J [phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Plaza Medical Center
Fort Worth
Clinic Affiliation: Oakmont Wellness Center
" Akinmerese, Olawale O, MD
Gender: Male NPI: 1194918649
650 Saint Louis Ave
J [phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Plaza Medical Center
Fort Worth
Clinic Affiliation: Fort Worth Internal
Medicine PA
Board Certifications: Family Practice
Language(s): Spanish
Fort WorthBarst, Geoffrey, MD
Gender: Male
# NPI: 1215005269
6316 Rufe Snow Dr
J [phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Plaza Medical Center
Fort Worth
Board Certifications: None
Language(s): French, Laotian, Spanish
Fort Worth " Buell, Lisa M, MD
Gender: Female
NPI: 1689660557
6250 John Ryan Dr
J [phone]
Board Certifications: Family Practice
Language(s): Spanish
"Thomas, Naja M, MD
Gender: Female
# NPI: 1588862452
4400 Heritage Trace Pkwy
Ste 204
J [phone]
Hospital Affiliations: Plaza Medical Center
Fort Worth
Clinic Affiliation: CP Middleton MD
Board Certifications: Family

Big fat lie #2: "Now that...ACA...HMOs are back"
Truth: They never went anywhere
Big fat lie #3: "I am talking about those folks who can afford only one "Affordable Care Act" option, the one they call HMO."
Truth: The PPO Blue Choice Bronze PPO 006 is the same price as the HMO. For a bronze plan, free.
It seems quite clear that mcCamy Taylor is a joke of a writer and freely admits in the DailyKos piece that this is "what she's heard" and therefore not true, except that by quoting something like 3 providers she moves from the realm of "I've heard" to "This is non-fiction writing." Shame on her, and you for promoting her b.s.

[IronLionZion]

20. McCamy Taylor's post history looks like someone who is genuinely interested in health issues

and does not appear to be a troll or have any obvious agenda. The story might be bullshit or at least embellished a lot to evoke sympathy.

But the intent behind it doesn't seem to be any different than the many DUers who think its brave and revolutionary to attack the biggest and most influential health reform I have ever seen in my lifetime because they are genuinely NOT brave enough to build a constituency who will support moving forward towards single payer at the state level. That would be too much work.

[okaawhatever]

23. She also recently posted a story on DailyKos that was more of the same disinformation. In that story

she makes several factually incorrect statements. Why would anyone write something that it takes longer to make up than it is to look on the ACA website and get the accurate info? In it, she doesn't claim to be telling the truth, well...not quite....she says

"What I am writing is hearsay, but I have heard the same thing repeated often enough from enough sources to believe that it is probably true."

"True or not, these stories have a lot of people very worried---people with serious health conditions who do not need to add worry to their already loaded plates."

Who bothers to write a story for DailyKos and not check a simple fact? Those who are genuinely concerned are the people like me who have been trying to get the truth out there. Is there nothing more heartless than to promote lies and scare the people we're supposedly concerned about? How about concern for DU or DailyKos? Do you not care about what you're doing to their reputation by posting these "stories"?

[Cha]

24. "Circle the Wagons" is bullshit. I don't care if someone has a genuine problem

with ACA.. lets hear it.. but, they better not be making up shit like the Koch bros from the left.

[Savannahmann]

25. Glad to hear it

Now that you are an expert, just to clarify, what experience do you have in the heathcare field? I mean, you are not just a guy with an agenda who looked up some information and declared it absolutely true are you? Because if your expertise is nothing more than an overview page from a website, then you are merely a self appointed expert. Those are the kinds of people I usually mock incessantly, like people who wear camouflage all the time but never were in the military recruiters office much less actually joined. Or people who wear FBI baseball hats when the closest they were to a real FBI agent was when they read a newspaper article about a bank robbery.

I ask, what kind of Democrat would attack a person who stats that they are familiar personally with the individual affected?

Many news stories from many sources have covered much of the same type of information. The deductible is a major problem. But in the meantime, go back to prancing about in your camouflage pants wearing your FBI hat. I mean, you went to the FBI's website once, and that makes you an expert doesn't it?

By the way, Deductibles always matter. Speaking for myself, doctor visits are not paid for until the Deductible is met. Not just this year, but every damned year. The rest of us who have this in real life, know what that's like. So if you are nothing more than a self appointed expert who has been to a webpage, perhaps you might want to knock off calling others liars based upon your deep understanding of the webpage you visited. On the other hand, you might be a plan administrator for a company somewhere. if so I'd like to talk to you offline. Because your numbers are much better than the ones I got in reality when my Deductible was applied to a hospital visit where I merely had an appendix out. I spent more than your declared grand total for the Anesthesiologist. I don't think you want to know how much I paid the Surgeon, or the per day for the Hospital stay.

Of course, you'll check the website and declare me a liar.