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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI love it when white Dudes proclaim to know the cure for white privilege
Don't you?
And we should all just be blessed when these white dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.
Tone deafness anyone??
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Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Well, the ditch keeps getting deeper and deeper.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)when you're getting your ass handed to you.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)so not all of us are dense enough to believe we (Whites) have the solutions...
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Does that mean we women are the only ones who get to determine how to address that? Obviously not. Whites have a stake in addressing white privilege, too...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I believe so....but here is why you are wrong
Being born White and male in this world is a DISTINCT advantage...what else do you call these FACTS:
as of 2010 compared to White male's salaries in the U.S. (at 100%)
Black men 74.5% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White males salaries)
White women 80.5% (of White males salaries)
Black women 69.6% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White males salaries)
So I call bullshit on your denial of the truth that White males ARE privileged.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)And no, I have affirmed white privilege (and male privilege) multiple times and have never argued otherwise.. Feel free to retract your false claim.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)If I recall you were posting in support of many of those men in denial of White male privilege last week. But if I have you confused with someone else I could be mistaken. If it wasn't you I apologize
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I reiterate: I have never denied white privilege and have stated this multiple times. I have also stated that the term itself (in common usage rather than academic) can be problematic, and I stand by that...but never that the problem it describes isn't very real and something that our society must address. I feel the same way about male privilege, fwiw.
Are these issues of privilege the worst problem we face as a society/culture? Nope...that would be gross capital inequality and the inevitable horror and bloodshed the current economic trends will cause, probably sooner rather than later. However, addressing issues of privilege would also be part of the solution to that larger problem.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)In america...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)There were White people who marched with Martin Luther King...there were White people on the buses into the South to register voters....there were White abolitionists even some during the Underground Railroad.
White people can be a part of the solution yes......but they cannot change it without first admitting that the problems exist....and that means listening to and accepting what minorities are saying about their experiences.
randys1
(16,286 posts)the issue, only those with the privilege can address it and resolve it.
Just like no Black person in America, who has no institutional power or societal power, can be a racist since the word racist exists to define power, if you arent in power you arent a racist, you are a bigot...
No Asian person or Latino person can resolve racism, only white can (in america)
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)but as long as some as so-called Liberals are in denial about White male privilege.....we are still a long way from being able to fix it....
randys1
(16,286 posts)Lots of white folk, especially men, hear the same footsteps that the rightwing racist assholes hear, that the minorities are gaining on them and they are not comfortable with it.
Our job is to convince that 50% or more of the white democratic party that they must let go of their fear and anxiety and admit that they/we are part of the problem...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)THAT is how we fix it!
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Because there is one demonstrating the OP's premise.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)And my bet is there's white women who'd deny that privilege exists....
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Which matters more, white privilege or male privilege?
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)but since the OP is about a specific post by a white male offering a "cure" for white privilege, I was wondering if there was a similar thread posted by a woman, which would then make pintobean's reply more relevant.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Or, the fact that a bunch of white women are all over these threads telling everyone how to think and feel about race issues. Just don't dare let a white "dude" do it. Yeah, I knew it was a call-out of a specific "dude". I also find it hypocritical.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Is there a way on Earth that your commentary can possibly be helpful to the progressive community?
"White Dudes"?
Really?
Mama used to tell me, "Read more. Talk less."
Here's a good read on 'privilege':
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4945643
boston bean
(36,221 posts)If you can't see that, I suggest it is you who need to "read more and talk less" on DU.
Wow what a condescending thing to say, wasn't it?
And that isn't to say that white women can't be just as bad, they can.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)Maybe you get bonus righteous lefty DU cred for the first dozen or so threads about the same topic, but eventually the bloom comes off of the rose.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Perhaps that's why the OP singled out "white dudes" in her thread title.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Does anyone really think those who benefit from privilege shouldn't be part of the conversation on eliminating it?
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)posted by a white male, and that's why bb "singled out" white males in her OP.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I should have been more clear...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)none other than the Whites that have benefitted from it the most....White men!
I was just told by one that expecting them to accept White privilege is "arrogant and condescending" even from me....a White woman!
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Just because your prejudicial bias is the prevailing sentiment doesn't make it less prejudiced.
If white women "can be just as bad as white men" (how's that for revealing?) 
then why, in every one of your posts on the topic, do you treat white women as somehow exempt?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)2010 White men salaries 100% comparison
Black men 74.5% (of White men's)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White men's)
White females 80.5% (of White men's)
Black females 69.6% (of White men's)
Hispanic females 59.8% (of White men's)
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I vote red herring.
An unsourced, misleading*, red herring.
*I'll follow you this far down the rabbit hole into which you want to derail the conversation: median earnings are not in any way comparable figures unless you correct for hours worked, occupational choice and experience.
... but no farther.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Thanks.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Source: U.S. Current Population Survey and the National Committee on Pay Equity; also Bureau of Labor Statistics: Weekly and Hourly Earnings Data from the Current Population Survey.
Read more: The Wage Gap by Gender & Race Timeline History (White, Black, Hispanic, Men & Women) http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html#ixzz31fqsWrX9
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)are riding it through the BIGGEST PUDDLE of SHIT that I have ever seen.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)
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bravenak
(34,648 posts)Waaaaahhh!
Poor you.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)Hypocrisy much?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)getting black folks to dig ditches and plow fields. Yeah, that worked really well back in the nineteenth century. 
For some reason it didn't cure racism. Fancy that?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)This one has got to be playing us.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)No question.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)
Squinch
(50,949 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)And given all the shit they have to put up with on a daily basis, not taxing them with the responsibility of not offending white men.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)and how they see a resolution... Hell NO, that's what white people are for and they are to do that for them.
I'm being sarcastic for those who couldn't tell...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)it would fix everything in that thread!
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Indeed. This white dude says the whiners can shove it. 
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)experience or feelings on the issue, and think it is only they who have the answers and not the ones who experience it.
Is that ok?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)We all experience it from different angles, and your comment implies that white people necessarily must not contradict anything you say because you have some kind of automatic credibility that trumps the entire experience of any white male. You are basically saying not only that minorities exclusively hold the answer, but that whites have nothing to contribute at all. Talk about condescending.
By your logic, men have no right to doubt Sarah Palin's view of what a woman ought to be, either. Utter horseshit.
P.S. Discussion is a two-way road. If you don't want to share the road, it's not discussion you're looking for in the first place.
P.P.S. I am a white male who acknowledges and regrets the existence of white privilege. By telling me that, by virtue of my race and gender, I am the problem, you are espousing racist views on a liberal message board. Take a moment to replace your self-righteousness with a little shame, if only for a microsecond.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)the experiences of minorities. YMMV.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)Your entire approach throughout all of these threads has been, "white men believe only they have the answers." Nevermind that your problem is with a few vocal assholes (something every race produces).
Now...I missed the last "white dudes" meeting, so I don't know what the others think, but I'm pretty sure your opening premise and go-to line is RACIST AS FUCK .
boston bean
(36,221 posts)way to speak about, solve it, and discuss it.
Jaysus!
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)That's the group you call out. I'm part of that group.
Why is it okay to attack all "white dudes" and then claim innocence because you really just meant the assholes who are white?
If I posted an OP condemning "black folks" for some activity that I ascribe to all of them, would the post even survive long enough for me to backpeddle like you did? Fuck no. That would be racist. Just like what you've said.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)If not, then I'm not talking about you. If so, then maybe the shoe fits.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)Keep driving those wedges. That's the path to enlightenment.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Your argument is tired, worn and old. I'm done listening to it.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)...when someone like you comes along to start a flamebait thread, and makes sure to reply to every contrary viewpoint NOT with a thoughtful, considered response...but rather with contemptuous and dismissive one-liners. It's beneath us as a community.
You've lumped myself and a lot of decent people in with a bad crowd because of your willingness to generalize in ways that would SIMPLY OUTRAGE you if the tables were turned.
If you can't give a serious response to those of us who call your inflammatory bullshit, you shouldn't bother posting at all.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)How do you think black persons feel when they are told they are discussing their experiences wrong.
Don't think about that much do you. You just want to think about how boston bean wrote an OP and you don't like the way it was written.
Well there is a bigger discussion to be had here than how you think I done did you wrong somehow.
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)So many assumptions about me in such a small space! You must be proud of your enlightened attitude?
You're part of the problem, not the solution. You AIM TO DIVIDE. You make me fucking sick.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)You may think I have personally affronted you somehow, but I did not.
No, I seek to give persons who experience racism respect and listen to them, and not take their words as a personal affront to me when they discuss their experiences.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)that's just mean.....you big ol meanie head!
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Are pretending to care about. ..
boston bean
(36,221 posts)If what I post makes you feel alienated from DU or the party, put me on ignore.
What I post is well within the priorities of the Democratic Party and most of DU. Have a problem with that? I don't care.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)cure racism through divisive racist sexist rants that convince nobody to agree...and pretending they aren't these things convinces no one...The king has no clothes...
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Not those who denies sexism or racism? Just the one who do believe and live with the oppression are racist and sexist.
Ok, seems rather twisted to me. But you go for it!
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Not talking about someone taking umbrage with semantics. No, stereotyping based on race and/or gender is racist and sexist. Pretending it isn't doesn't change anything. .
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)Damn okay with me. 
Response to boston bean (Reply #17)
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boston bean
(36,221 posts)ok.
Response to boston bean (Reply #195)
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boston bean
(36,221 posts)I'm done with responding to a person who thinks black persons lie about racism to benefit themselves.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
On the Road
(20,783 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)start there.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)As a Scottish/Lithuanian-American I'm about as lily-white as you can get.
Oh, wait... Maybe it's because I don't act like I know more about racism than actual people of color? 
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Please be specific. Very specific. I'll wait.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)That would be a good start.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Outside here on DU that is.
Here the alpha and omega seems to be semantics, with advocates insisting that they be allowed to establish the parameters of debate and the language used. In any case, I believe that white privilege is very real, but I think it is more useful to discuss this in terms of specific defined ADVANTAGES. I do not, however, insist that anyone else agree with me, nor do I believe that these terminology wars are useful unless the goal is to stifle debate and dismiss opinion.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)what I mean is that it needs to be acknowledged by the privileged in response to the situation in which the privilege was wielded. The privileged need to make it socially unacceptable among themselves to use the privilege, and need to point out its unacceptable nature when they see it occurring.
For example if, as recently happened to me, I am at a real estate open house, and a black couple arrives and the realtor makes a side remark to me that the couple will probably not be comfortable in the neighborhood, nudge, nudge, as a member of the privileged group, I need to be vocal about the fact that her attitude toward them lost her my business. She doesn't want the business of the non-privileged group. She does want my business. They can't create a change in her behavior. I can. The non-privileged group, by definition, cannot end privilege. Only the privileged group can.
Another example: smart, obviously well educated, adult people on a discussion board discuss their first hand experiences with privilege and how profoundly they have been affected by them. Some jackass, without any first hand experience of that privilege, comes along and tells them that the experiences either didn't occur, or were not important, or were not examples of white privilege, or they say that white privilege doesn't exist. One step to cure white privilege is if we all avoid being that jackass.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)The things you described are not privilege, they are just racism, and hopefully we all challenge that evil whenever and wherever we see it. Privilege is more subtle. Privilege is knowing that a black guy, no matter how talented he is, probably cannot do what I do for a living. Because he is black, and white people are not going to trust him the way they trust me. And more, when its midnight and he is walking back to his car in the dark, when he walks past the police he has to wonder if he will be rousted for being black, whereas I feel only relief that they are there to protect me. And that's why they are there, to protect me, the white guy. And from who? You already know the answer.
So how do you fix this? Where do you have beven begin?
For individuals it's easy. We can try to root out our personal prejudices and destroy them, but we can only do this where it makes sense. Cops profile, and so do I. When I am walking back to my car at midnight and I spot a college girl jogging I am not concerned for MY safety, but hers. You can call that a privilege if you like. She, on the other hand, might not feel the same about me. Seeing me there might just scare the hell out of her, not because she hates men or me personally, but because other men have given her cause to react this way. So what do we do?
For myself, I am just going to continue to treat people the way I want to be treated. I can try to be understanding and compassionate, and help other people the way I have been helped in my own life. Beyond that I don't have any good answers.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)And basically, your post says, yes I experience privilege, but I have no intention of doing anything different in response to it.
I suspect that there is nothing I can write to which you won't respond, "No, that's not privilege and there's nothing I can do about privilege."
So my last word on this is to say, for yourself, maybe you could add an activity: quit posting posts that are designed to shut down the conversation among people when they are discussing white privilege. Especially people of color who are discussing their lack of privilege.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)I really have ended up giving up talking about a range of subjects these days because I was born white and male and therefor know nothing.
I'll do what I can to help elect people that I think can fix it. I'll do my best to raise my kids to understand the problem and not make it worse.
But I won't offer solutions. I'll just grow older and be thought of as the problem because of what I am. I'm fine with that.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You have no idea what it is like to be "pregnant" either do you? You just cannot relate to that because you will never be pregnant. Being non-white and or non-male is like that for you....
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If that's the case then why is there any point in discussing them at all?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If people have "no idea" what an experience is like unless they have experienced it, then those who have apparently are incapable of articulating those experiences in a way that someone else can understand.
So if this were actually true, then what is the point of discussing these things?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)neither have I...
I do not presume to tell women who have what that is like....do you?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)that they have no business discussing the topic.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)any more than a White man should do for women or minorities....period....BECAUSE White men cannot relate to their experience....just like men cannot relate to what its like to be pregnant.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You obviously feel the subject is beyond the scope of reason and feel the need to misrepresent the person you were responding to in order to make your point. I don't really see the point in continuing a discussion that goes back to where it started every couple of posts or so.
Cheers!
Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #42)
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hughee99
(16,113 posts)That's what we all need to start doing with our privilege issues, dismissing opinions based solely on someone's race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Only then can we have a society where all people are treated equally!
boston bean
(36,221 posts)have their opinions dismissed, based on some white dudes feelings on the subject.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)I didn't get that from your OP at all. I probably "missed that part" because it wasn't there.
You made a snarky comment and got snark in return.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)It's a Mans World.
Lord knows no one has a more valid opinion than the one given by he. Even when it is he who isn't affected by it.
Try to keep up with the topic. Believe it or not, it really is simple. White men ought not be telling minorities how and why they should feel and then go on to give advice on how to resolve it based on those views that minorities reject.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)opinion. You're arguing against things I've never said. I'm arguing against what you actually said.
Is it okay for a white woman to discussion issues of race? Is it okay for a black man to discuss issues of gender?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)in a respectful manner that is actually based in reality, not denial of racial issues.
Get it? Hope so..
hughee99
(16,113 posts)To me, it sounded from your OP like your issue is with "white dudes" opinions, not general uninformed and stupid opinions regardless of race or gender. I'm all on board with having no regard for idiotic opinions regardless of their source.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)for white privilege.
Especially when the cure they put forward has nothing to do with acknowledging privilege exists. In fact it was and was stated over and over again how words mean nothing, only action does in that thread. When for a week now, we've had nothing but alleged progressives (mostly males) state over and over again how white privilege does not exist, how it is prejudiced to say that it does, and how they don't have any.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)the reverse should hold true as well, am I right?
My point is, why not listen to everyone? No one ideological group should be totally dominating the conversation......I'm sure we can agree on *that*, I hope?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Response to boston bean (Original post)
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cyberswede
(26,117 posts)In this case, the OP is referring to a thread posted by a white male, I believe.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)are you suggesting one isn't valid?
Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #47)
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uppityperson
(115,677 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You are not scolded....you're privileged.
(and lest you forget....women are also at a disadvantage)
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #60)
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VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)who is "calling you out"?
Some salary facts for your edification (just for starters..)
2010 White men 100%
Black men 74.5% (of White men)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White men)
White women 80.5% (of White men)
Black women 69.6% (of White men)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White men)
Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #75)
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VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)everyone else makes at least 20% less then you do!
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)orientation?
A white person has institutional privilege over someone with a different color skin.
A man has institutional privilege over a woman.
A hetero has institutional privilege over non-hetero.
Do you deny these institutional privileges exist?
Response to uppityperson (Reply #92)
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uppityperson
(115,677 posts)This thread is about specific posts by specific people who do need scolding. Your attempt to expand it to everyone is rather amusing.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)But I haven't seen a thread posted by a white woman presuming to know how to "cure" white privilege.
This OP is about a thread posted by a white male who did presume to know how to "cure" white privilege.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)White men owned their wives until recent history, like the 20th century. Black dudes got the vote before white women. White women have it harder than white men. White men are special in the way that they didn't have to march in the streets and get beat up and arrested just to get the rights that they have. Black people and women had to fight.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)of whom I am one, to recognize that black women have met much more resistance than white women. Black women face more entrenched stereotypes, and those stereotypes are different than the ones white women face. White women suffer street harassment because they are objectified and to be 'kept in check', but black women face street harassment on steroids because not only are they objectified, but they also have to contend with the institutional racism that teaches men that black women are, literally, objects to owned.
Some of us realize that that is what checking one's privilege means - to realize that certain characteristics about ourselves means that we have it easier than others with the minority characteristic. It means challenging others with the same privilege when they neglect or refuse to take into account the increased resistance faced by minority groups one does not belong to oneself. Unfortunately, many white feminists have had problems acknowledging the experiences of black women, but they are being challenged these days not only by black feminists and womanists, but also by white feminists that want to be allies to black feminists and womanists.
That is how different privileges play out in real time - we all have different privileges, some more than others. If the only privilege you lack is class, you really need to think before you dismiss others when they tell you about how they experience the world.
Bravenak, I know you already know all these things, so the 'you' is generic. This is less an answer to your post, and more a post that uses your post as a point of departure.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Thanks.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Are all of those people white dudes? If so then that's why white dudes are being singled out.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Welcome to DU, by the way.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)he is using civil language.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)
stage left
(2,962 posts)and considered discourse when another group does it. The unwarranted defensiveness rampant here is getting on my nerves, but I can no longer be silent.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)fighting for equality, I've got to say it looks like your post is nothing more than trying to divide the people fighting for equality. I don't need to be publicly scorned because I am white or a male. Nor do I need to see other white men publicly scorned on the basis that they are white or male. Perhaps some people have engaged in behavior you find needs discussing in a specific way, like, say, Donald Sterling said something offensive and stupid. But your post is just generally racist.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)about men who give pronounce these cures, when they don't respect the opinion of minorities.
I get it. You could literally take my OP and read it how you would like. But the intention is to point out the massive ego some males must have to think they get to spout cures and everyone ought to listen and lend credence, when they do nothing but deny the privilege they hold. And insult minorities in the process.
You think that isn't an issue... ok.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)insulting. I've spent 45 years fighting for equality. I find your comments different from the comments of Strom Thurmond only in that he said racist things about all black people, and you are saying racist things about all white men. If find your behavior racist and insulting. If a particular person has done something wrong, call out the specific behavior of that particular person. If there is an institutional practice that you find racist, call out that practice by name and the people who support it by name.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)publicly. You tell me, are my notions racist? I certainly do not intend them to be racist, I certainly do not intend to offend anyone. I do not wish to cut in line, I want everyone around me to be the happiest they can be. For liberal causes I've passed petitions, stuffed envelopes, walked-precincts, joined and chaired committees and boards, attended conventions, donated and raised money, registered voters, written and published materials, run for office, held office and many other things. Because equality and respect for others is self-evidently correct.
Are certain people privileged by skin color or birth? George Will is a very good example. Talented at putting sentences together, he was born into a job defending conservatism where approximately one out of three columns he writes are about how black people aren't as worthy as white people. His columns are filled with historical errors. He has never worked a day in his life outside this world of conservative and racist water carrying for his employers. It is the epitome of privileged cluelessness. Every time he talks about race, he would be the good subject of such a discussion. But white men in general are not privileged. Men like George Will and Donald Sterling are. Their racism is not the result of their skin color, or really even their privileged upbringing. It is their lack of respect for the equality of others who weren't born rich and remain self-centered their entire lives, not just through their teenage years. They happen to have a skin color.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Being born White and male in this world is a DISTINCT advantage...what else do you call these FACTS:
as of 2010 compared to White male's salaries in the U.S. (at 100%)
Black men 74.5% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White males salaries)
White women 80.5% (of White males salaries)
Black women 69.6% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White males salaries)
So I call bullshit on your denial of the truth that White males ARE privileged.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)developed is insulting and racist.
If I am in fact "privileged" by the mere fact of being white and male I'd like to know at what desk, window or counter I go to take a job of someone else and get higher pay to boot. I've never done such a thing or heard of such a thing. I would be happy to investigate the facts if anyone knows of such an arrangement. I can assure you that no one has ever alerted me, a pleasant enough white male of FDR style liberal politics persuasion, that there was such an old boys club available. Let me put in a caveat. I can tell you the names for such clubs for conservative white males. The Federalist Society, the Republican Party, The Bohemian Club, The Olympic Club, Skull & Bones etc. are in fact such arrangements. But they are closed to me and the vast majority of white males. At least I assume so. I wouldn't ask to join a club like that, and I've never been recruited for them despite knowing many of their members. Those are not clubs for any ole white males. They are for conservative white males from the right kind of families (that have money).
I don't get to skip lines at the airport, have limo drivers assume that I am their afternoon customer, get moved ahead in line, get to speak longer, get special treatment of any kind that I know of because I am a white male. I didn't get to be a legacy at university, admitted to any grad school, or hired by any company because I am a white male.
So when someone tells me about all these wonderful privileges, I have to call bullshit. I don't get them, I know of no individual who does get them. What I interpret as a fact from those same statistics are that women and black people and other minorities are discriminated against and oppressed in a great number of ways and that is a fact that should be remedied by law. We can do that by passing laws. We can pass laws by building coalitions, registering voters and voting for liberal candidates and progressive candidates. Votes are counted one at a time. Equal pay laws with teeth behind them will protect all citizens.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Being born White and male in this world is a DISTINCT advantage...what else do you call these FACTS:
as of 2010 compared to White male's salaries in the U.S. (at 100%)
Black men 74.5% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White males salaries)
White women 80.5% (of White males salaries)
Black women 69.6% (of White males salaries)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White males salaries)
^^^^ and THAT is just salary...that's called "privilege".
You can deny it and call it "insulting" to be faced with it all you want....doesn't change the facts.....
Response to boston bean (Reply #38)
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boston bean
(36,221 posts)they use to describe their experience is INSULTING and DISRESPECTFUL.
You really think that's the way to go... more power to ya then.
Response to boston bean (Reply #192)
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boston bean
(36,221 posts)is well... I don't know... you think up a word.
Response to boston bean (Reply #194)
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boston bean
(36,221 posts)not mine. I tend to agree with them regarding white privilege and how it affects them and their life experience. You don't.
That's about all I need to know. Thank you.
Response to boston bean (Reply #198)
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nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)So relax, and try not to take things personally, is all I can say.
Just because there are a lot of bad white men out there doesn't mean we're all bad. And I don't think anyone on DU means to suggest otherwise.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)that is so popular gain any traction. Individuals can be jerks. White dudes are not jerks as a general principle.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/martinluth115056.html#92p7bM6DElaKcA4F.99
This is the dream that we and our forebearers fought for. Many died, many were injured, many psychologically scarred. We are called by this ideal to have high individual character, to treat people not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Each individual. Do not smear me and all white people with a quip about "privileged white dude" unless I or a specific person has done something specific.
Many of us know very well and with a heavy heart that good people have suffered, even died, with the last thing they ever heard being a reference to their skin color or ancestors. Please don't even look down that road, don't look down your nose at someone's skin color because they are, as an individual, ignorant and privileged. That kid from Princeton who wrote the piece for time magazine is ignorant and privileged, not because he is white, but because he, as an individual, came from a family with wealth and the privilege that brings and because he is young and ignorant, he doesn't know any better. Whoever flung "check your white privilege" and whoever flings it, is not being thoughtful and respectful and addressing the problem, they are summarizing in a bumper sticker style slogan that diminishes us.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts) 
Enrique
(27,461 posts)very transparently bogus.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)White privilege is a real thing and very worthy of discussion.
But this thread and others like it are bogus.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)its Bogus because White male privilege doesn't exist?
Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)
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cyberswede
(26,117 posts) uppityperson
(115,677 posts) VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)as a White male you are not likely to make 30% less because of your gender and....You are also only 13% of the population in poverty....
Here are some stats:
White male salary in 2010 100%
Black men 74.5% (of White men)
Hispanic men 65.9% (of White men)
White women 80.5% (of White men)
Black women 69.6% (of White men)
Hispanic women 59.8% (of White men)
and this is JUST salary...not housing and other issues...
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I have no problem with the the concept and only object to the term because its academic meaning and colloquial usage have drifted apart (which created confusion). This line of argument though, with its implications that white men shouldn't propose solutions, is idiotic and counterproductive.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I think the OP is upset that rrneck in a separate thread revealed the exhaustion of the WP threads. I think few who demand "checking white privilege" really want to any resolution, or even any improvement. It has become an end in itself.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Or rather, the institutional barriers placed in front of People of Color? I don't think so, TBH. Often times, the most social progress is achieved when groups of people set aside their differences to focus on a goal, whether of "normal" status or disadvantaged. Look at the Civil Rights Movement for example.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)If that can't be done, then any other "words" coming out of their mouth sound like bs to me.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)and actually work on solutions. That much I agree with.
So basically, stop complaining about the phrase "white privilege" because it's not going away. And this isn't directed at you as an individual either, because several posters here have gotten bogged down in quibbling arguments like that.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I was describing other people's reactions, not my own. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Personally I am totally in favor of using the phrase "white privilege" because it's concise and describes a very real phenomenon. Plus I don't feel it's my place as a white person to tell anyone how to talk about racism anyway.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Why, we would sweep the nation, or at least a couple of precincts in Berkeley.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Say it's between a man and a woman, say it's states rights... to not lose an election. I guess if all gay people hadn't spoken up or said anything, thing would have been way more equal than they are today?
Boy, I would have thought you were way more courageous than what it seems you are.
It's got to start somewhere and it's about time it does start.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)What is it exactly that our candidates are supposed to embrace?
"I"m sorry I'm white, and you should be, too. Vote for me!"
We have a long history of anti-racist politics in this country already. The white privilege meme doesn't seem like a very useful way of advancing that cause.
Boy, I would have thought you were way more intelligent that what it seems you are.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Our candidates are suppose to recognize that disparity exists, that privilege exists, so policies are created with those facts in mind.
Now, go insult someone else. I'm not going to alert, but your insult deserves a hide.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I guess you didn't notice that.
And I'm done here. You and your OP are a waste of my time.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts) 
penultimate
(1,110 posts)to discussions and should not speak, but only listen. Am I off base when with my interpretation of what you're saying?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)actually read through threads and educate themselves on the matter.
I'm not saying you alone, but gosh it's to seem that some think my post is way worse than others that actually deny privilege and then spout off on cures.
I understand what you say, but really... read the thread.
penultimate
(1,110 posts)I wanted to ask in my own way, because I feel that often times people phrase their questions in a hostile way because they assume the intentions of others. I try not to assume the intentions of other as much as I possibly can, and much prefer to have explicit confirmations to ensure an understanding of others viewpoints. I find that makes discussions about these sorts of subjects far more enlightening and productive.
DU is a discussion board, and it seems reasonable to believe that your intent was to have your comment/observation discussed. The original post seemed more like a broad statement about white dudes in general, as opposed to a specific instance of a person speaking about something with authority from a point of ignorance. I see references from you in other parts of thread that may suggest you're speaking about a specific instance/person, but then there are other posts that go more toward a more broad statement being made.
So the reason I asked was so I could get a more accurate feeling for what you're getting at, without it being tainted by other's who may have asked similar questions that were tinged with a knee-jerk hostility toward your initial post.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)When you see what I am talking about, PM me, so I know you and I are on the same page and you're not just singling me out. And maybe make a post questioning them. Now, that would be great.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)I don't give a crap, about who's yelling it and who's denying it. I really could care less. So why did I reply? Only to let it be known that some of us, and I bet there are quite a few, think it's all complete bullshit and are not going to play this game.
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)from white dudes. It comes from black dudes overcoming it. President Obama found the cure and took a big dose of it. He won the majority approval of America twice over white privilege. Model yourself after him and succeed.
And FWIW, little old ladies lock their car doors when my ugly white ass walks by too. Wealthy people avoid the lobby doors to their condominium buildings if I'm standing outside waiting to be let in too. The sherrif clubbed me unconscious back in '81 when I got off of my Harley one night for a speeding ticket. Maybe because my Harley was black I don't know. But I can't simply dismiss it or every other time something goes wrong as racist.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Could it be he had green privilege?
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)It's not white privilege, it's green privilege!
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Seems to me they both have a major effect in shaping people's life circumstances.
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)But I think how we apply and present ourselves is more important than either. Many people of all races have overcome adversity and moved on to become great successes. More often than not, we're our own biggest obstacle.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)in life, by various means. But focusing too much on individual effort and achievement tends to breed a sense of "I did it, so why can't everyone else???" Which, when we know little to nothing about a person's circumstances, can often be misguided.
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)is our best tool for success. I'll never be more than a greasy mechanic. I've reached my limit. But I'm going to be the best mechanic the company has. I might not have had to jump over that "white privilege" hurdle but, countless blacks have and have advanced far beyond anything I'll ever reach. "What can you do for me" is admitting defeat. "What can I do for you" is opening doors of opportunity for employment or business ownership. It might not be Microsoft, but it will be your success.
TeacherB87
(249 posts)I'm not saying "white dudes" are the best at understanding privilege, and I'm sure many comments from this demographic will be too reductive or dismissive.
But summarily dismissing someone because they are a "white dude" is also destructive and reductive.
This is, yet again, another example of someone completely missing the point on the privilege discussion.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)claiming privilege does not exist and then go on to state what the CURE is.
But I guess that is lost on you and you find my post much more offensive. So.be.it.
TeacherB87
(249 posts)Just because it was a white guy claiming privilege does not exist does not mean all white men cannot productively contribute to the conversation. Would you have all white men stay out of the conversation? Because that seems counterintuitive. Those men need to be drug out of the woodwork and called out for what they are doing. If we shame them into inaction then their aberrant ideas are allowed to fester under the surface. I'm just not sure I see the point of you shaming "white dudes" here. Your post is neither helpful or productive.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)
boston bean
(36,221 posts)TeacherB87
(249 posts)And an "s" isn't the only thing I would change about your post.
I am a white guy and have pushed back against the ignorant posts by some about how "white privilege" doesn't exist. I have also pushed back on the erroneous definitions for racism that get bandied about in these discussions. I am your ally here, not your enemy.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)The problem is when white people act like they know more about racism than people of color do. Same goes for men and sexism, straight people and homophobia, and so on.
TeacherB87
(249 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)generally consist of obvious benefits or "extras" - and then there's the idea of a straight white non-disabled non-impoverished male playing life on the "easy" setting, whereas a better way to look at it might be as the "default" or "neutral" setting. In the sense that one can simply be considered a "generic" human being with no particular baggage attached, whereas others have all sorts of (usually negative) assumptions made about their character and/or motives. The lack of said baggage is privilege, in a nutshell.
jmondine
(1,649 posts)There are certain things I have learned:
1. White privilege in our culture is absolutely real. It is pervasive and deeply ingrained.
2. It is so subtle that most of the time I don't perceive it, even when I am benefitting from it.
3. There is no way in Hell I can even imagine what it's like to have lived my entire life on the wrong end of it.
So no, I certainly don't know the cure for this. What I can do is pledge to try to be more aware of it in my everyday life, and do my damndest to not perpetuate it.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Yes, white privilege is real. I don't know how to fix it. Come up with Solution and I'll listen, and if it's a good idea, I'll work to have it implemented.
But I'm sick of people lambasting me for my whiteness. I didn't choose to be white.
Don't we have important actionable things to do? Like oh, winning an election or two?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)You're certainly far from the first person to have the point sail over your head...
No, you didn't choose to be white, and neither did I. But personally I choose not to be closed off to the experiences and perspectives of those who don't share my skin color (or sexuality). I'm not saying anything about you personally, one way or the other, I'm just saying what I think is really at issue here.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)and I'd like to point out that I think #2 is a problem with a lot of people - it's so subtle they deny its very existence and are very defensive when someone suggests that they may benefit from something they don't believe exists. Sadly, by denying its very existence, they perpetuate it. IMO, that is why it's so important to make people aware of what it is...most people, once they are shown, understand. Unfortunately, there will always be a small subset of people who will take the suggestion of privilege as a personal attack on their own life. I don't know if it's because they are being willfully obtuse, or if they are worried subconsciously that acknowledging it means they will no longer benefit from it.
Anyway, I don't know the cure either, but I'm aware of it and I also do my damndest to not perpetuate it.
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)...and I think I see the problem.
Take for example the phrase "proclaim to know the cure for."
When you select the English to Stewing In Misdirected Resentment translation option, it becomes: "so I'm not allowed to say anything I guess."
Now, this could be a failure in the translation program.
Or it could reflect a deeper shortcoming of the Stewing In Misdirected Resentment dialect, which appears to lack much of the grammatical syntax needed for clear, linear reasoning.
Either way, until this language barrier can be overcome somehow, discussion of this topic (and many others) seems bound to result in endless sidetracks and outright derailments, making true dialog difficult if not impossible.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)Assuming there are only two sides, of course.
But in any case I'm not sure I understand your question?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Shandris
(3,447 posts)...but right now I've heard nothing.
Wait. I take that back. I heard 'Now go and get every white person in America to 'check their privilege' and get back with us'.
So, barring some kind of evidence to the contrary, the only presented answer thus far is an intentionally unreachable goal.
Making racism a permanent topic, helping no one, but making privilege overseers eternally politically relevant.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)is that it doesn't provide any solutions. I'm pretty sure that most people here realize that white people generally have it easier than people of color, but what are we going to do about it besides throw insults at each other?
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)Besides, I doubt the problem is any one in this site to begin with.
It is only when, like I mentioned earlier, someone like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan talk about their work and then try to get rid of the securities and protections that they or their grandparents used to get ahead, that I have a problem.
Thing is though, at some point, someone has to back down.
I know that many can agree that there is some inherent advantages due to race, and that some really should step off, because they can't really do anything about it. People are born that way.
On the other hand, going off creating posts mentioning "poor me", I'm white and this is what is expected of me or I am blamed for this, just doesn't help things either. It sets people off, it basically proves to people that they don't know what they are talking about.
Then, comparing themselves to Asians, never considering that Asians have higher job expectations for them to receive comparative treatment. Sometimes though, when in a hole, please stop digging.
Let it go, talk about solutions.
Solutions such as affirmative action which have been hit hard by the Supreme Court.
Solutions such as actually improving public education, and figure out ways to reduce absenteeism.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Examples of what people ACTUALLY mean when they say “Check Your Privilege.”
You are inserting yourself into a conversation where you shouldn’t be. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are making my pain about you. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are belittling my pain. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
You are making my fears concerns and troubles less important than your annoyance about me talking about my experience. Acknowledge what you are doing, apologize and stop it.
Now What?
If you believe that PoC want you to apologize for having white privilege, you are wrong. To be honest, I don’t get why you would think that in the first place. Let’s pretend for a second that I DO want you to apologize for having white privilege. Then, let’s pretend that you actually do apologize to me. How does that help me in ANY way? You see, some of you believe that we want to take away what you have or we want you to be ashamed of what you have. This is not the case. We want to be treated like human beings and we want you to understand that you don’t get to assert yourself or your feelings ABOUT OUR FEELINGS onto us or into our conversations.
...
http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/17004629556/white-privilege-now-what-other-such-fallacies
Shandris
(3,447 posts)...allow me to point out that if one were to follow this 'article' (which doesn't speak for a group naturally, even though it refers to a group), one could simply ignore all matters pertaining to people of color -- including the existence of privilege itself -- and fulfill the request.
Is that where we're at now? Ignore everyone who isn't like you so you don't somehow 'make it about you'? It seems to me that that is how we got this problem started in the first place. That isn't a solution.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Last edited Tue May 13, 2014, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)
because what they are refusing to pay even a little attention to DUers of color. Not only that, they feel they should tell them what words they are allowed to use. I care a hell of a lot more what they have to say about racism than some folks who are freaked out that the subject is even discussed and effectively insist race doesn't matter by continually reference class. You have to put up with some people who disagree with you. How awful for you. Think about the racism people of color face everyday, and then they come here and learn that people who claim to be liberals don't give a shit.
Shandris
(3,447 posts)When I want to know what its like to -experience- it, I go to people who experience it. When I want to know whether something is useful or not in conversation, I go to those who experience it. People are free to 'disagree' all they want, that's fine. When it's not fine is when they begin to attribute thoughts, feelings, or beliefs to me that I don't espouse because that's the only way to make the disagreement fit the narrative.
If no one cared, people would simply do what I posted was possible; they'd ignore it entirely. And, according to the linked article, it would be a 'victory' for racism. Since that's not what I see happening, then either that definition posted is completely useless, or people care more than what you're attributing to them -- which is wholly in line with the expected attitude of a liberal site.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)However as a "white dude" I think I have some insight into what other "white dudes" are likely to listen to and what they are likely to just dismiss out of hand.
It really depends on whether you actually want to get "white dudes" to understand or if you rather are all about making poor "white dudes" in particular feel like bigger losers than they already do. "You played life on the ~easy~ setting and still lost, you really are a clueless dweeb".
The latter seems to be the aim of some around here, they never attack money, power or the wealthy (the vast majority of whom are white in this country) but rather go after the poor white schmuck who doesn't have two nickels to rub together.
The enemy of all of us who are struggling is not poor or even middle class whites, it's the damn ultra-wealthy and this whole "white privilege" discussion seems designed to avoid that fact.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)of which you speak?
What is the point of this OP?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)once AA's make amends to white people for making them feel bad.
dilby
(2,273 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)of this privilege.
dilby
(2,273 posts)I feel like a racist already just thinking that I need to judge someone because they were not born the right color. I actually feel sick to my stomach as I look out my window and think that 9 out of the 10 people I see are lesser than me because they are not the right color. I feel empathy for our country because we have never moved to all men are equal only men are judged by the color of their skin. I can see how this works though as a Jew, Hitler blamed Jews for being successful he threw them up as privileged, he used them as examples on why Germans did not enjoy the same benefits as the Jews. Funny thing he never mentioned wealth, where are you at when it comes to the 99% vs the 1% are you closer to the 1% where you can throw racial bombs and not have to worry about consequence as you sit in your McMansion. I have you on my radar, I don't forget those who try to separate based on race.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)has some real issues. I also think that someone who denies white privilege and then insists on telling minorities how they should speak about it and what words they can use, have some real issues. And I think that those who do all the prior, and then proclaim a cure, deserve to be called on it.
dilby
(2,273 posts)You side with the 1% and you fight a war that is already over, instead of pulling your brother up you cast doubts upon him based on the color of his skin. There is a new war, it's one where sides are not based upon color but income. If you want to keep fighting your poverty stricken brother all while putting a dagger to his throat because you could not afford that AR-15 so be it. Me, my self I will actually fight against those who make it so we can't afford those AR-15's and are destined to stab our own in the back with rusty shanks we made out of our imagination.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Hey, you want to focus on only your white brethren by denying any additional obstacle race plays into, go for it. I however will continue to speak out and for those who have it even worse by recognizing their obstacles and hurdles. I don't have any clue how you think that supports the 1%. You got it all ass backwards.
dilby
(2,273 posts)You want to say I am focusing on my brethren then fine yeah I hate seeing Jews being put down. But I wont sit by and watch stones throne at my Democrat Brother no matter what color he is.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Only one side gets to throw these stones, the other has to sit idly by and get pummeled.
Get a grip. It's obvious your type of view is some what common in progressive circles, shame that is. But you better expect some push back.
Go toss your dividing the democratic party on someone who might buy it. I could say it is those who believe as you who are doing the dividing.
Difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm not going to vote democratic, even though some of the things spouted here on the democratic message board make me want to hurl. Also, difference of opinion does mean I won't make some judgments on the person who is spouting them. You are free to do the same.
Now, I hope that allays your fears that I'm working for the 1%.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Telling people of color and women to not fight for thier own rights and only fight against the 1% is saying, "We shouldn't talk about racism and sexism until there are no poor white men." And we know the history and know that no matter how things go economically in the US, people of color and women will always be left behind. (And IMO I'll say people of color more than women because I'll always ride my white husband's coattails.)
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)for a member of the culture that oppressed another culture to claim they knew more about how to heal the scars than the members of the oppressed culture.
I see second generation fellow white people act like they know better what's going on between the races here than African Americans whose family has been here since the slave trade. I mean, shut up already. You don't know what's going on!
I would never suggest African American measures to heal their wounds were wrong. It's in bad taste and it is just a continuation of the racism.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)
These are somebody elses words to me...
When you can't even bear to allow them to speak, to choose their own words, you make impossible such work toward shared goals.
It's not enough to tell those members what words they should use, but now you tell them what they should do.
If you insist on making these discussions about your feelings rather than the experiences of those subject to racism...
You are talking about forcing people to keep their mouths shut about racism and haul rocks because you want them to.
Refraining from telling them they shouldn't use words or discuss issues that some white posters don't like.
These are my words...
Talk about whatever you want.
Talk all you want, but talk is cheap.
Fine. Go for it. Nobody is stopping you
Discuss it all you want.
Talk is cheap if it's only talk.
Whatever you say.
Again, whatever you say. At this point neither of us knows what we are talking about. If you'd like to post some links or some comments made by others we could get some traction.
You guys need to get your story straight.
And as an added bonus...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024944558#post135
Edit to add:
I won't even try to count how many times I asked this:
Do you have a solution for the problem? All I got for an answer was "careful introspection".
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)Which one of these statements is acceptable?:
1) And we should all just be blessed when these white dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.
2) And we should all just be blessed when these black dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.
3) And we should all just be blessed when these gay dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.
4) And we should all just be blessed when these Mexican dudes give these utmost important thoughts on his cure to all minorities.
5) All of the above
6) None of the above
The answer is 6.
IronLionZion
(45,440 posts)which is a broad brush. Like anyone outside of a any demographic would know what's best for that demographic.
White people have a multi-millenial history of know what's best for non-whites and that includes many white liberals today who are oblivious of their own white privilege that enables them to live a hippie lifestyle. There's a reason that liberals are very diverse but most hippies are white.
Men like to "mansplain" to women. Women do similar things to men, often in a more emotional guilt-trip manipulative way rather than logical. I'm sure it feels right to the ones who do it. I bet their intentions are honorable, as with most normal human beings.
Older folks always know that younger folks are so stupid and lazy they need someone else telling them to work harder and wise up, in a world that has completely transformed in many important ways from where we were just a few years ago let alone decades.
Younger folks have similar thoughts about how older folks are to blame for most problems and should have done things better.
Everyone always knows better. No one bothers to take the log out of their own eye before pointing out the dust in someone else's. Every time I point a finger at you, there's 3 pointing back at me. A fist is more effective. Its so easy to tell someone else to "suck it up", "bootstraps!", "be grateful", etc.
i'm guilty too. I'm looking for someone to blame for my impending job loss which will happen any day now. I'm a small minority, so maybe I'll blame white privilege. I'll be willfully oblivious to the fact that a big reason I got my job in the first place is because my white female boss was clearly stacking her group with diversity in order to build her coalition of support to propel her upwards, and it worked. My education/income privilege will help cushion my impending fall.
Response to boston bean (Original post)
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