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Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
Thu May 15, 2014, 04:09 PM May 2014

Bill O'Reilly denies that white privilege exists in America

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/15/bill-oreilly-white-privilege_n_5330972.html

<...>

O'Reilly denied that white privilege exists in America and cited his past experiences of growing up on Long Island and working at an ice cream shop as reasons for why he is not privileged. But O'Reilly's guest, as well as other viewers, all seemed to agree -- someone needs to fill O'Reilly in on the definition of white privilege.

Looks like O'Reilly agrees with some DUers.

Ye shall know them by the company they keep.

Of course if you go to Free Republic or Stormfront, I'm sure they also believe white privilege doesn't exist.

In fact, they probably believe it's the straight white male who is oppressed and virtually in chains.

115 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bill O'Reilly denies that white privilege exists in America (Original Post) Cali_Democrat May 2014 OP
Imagine that ismnotwasm May 2014 #1
White privilege exists and those that deny it are as bad as climate change deniers.... Swede Atlanta May 2014 #2
How do you conclude it's your whiteness that is giving you an advantage? phil89 May 2014 #8
There's never been anything objective that I can see, in terms of answers. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #22
What would you accept as "objective evidence" ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #40
"Since scores of academic studies and more anecdotal responses seem not to suffice?" AverageJoe90 May 2014 #43
I love how you invent terms ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #50
"That's true commitment to a bogus argument ... " Speak for yourself......pot, meet kettle. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #73
I can ONLY speak for myself ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #79
"But I am not the one inventing....." Nobody needed to. It was already there. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #86
So ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #93
Agreed....he just cannot give it up....he is a disgruntled White guy... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #114
The term has been around for generations in different forms, I don't see how that changes the uponit7771 May 2014 #70
Some think all opinions/voices on a topic are of equal value ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #80
*facepalm*. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #81
Still waiting for ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #82
me too uponit7771 May 2014 #84
See post 86. Very basic explanation of the difference. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #87
It's far from perfect ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #99
Here ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #89
Hey, they want you to feel bad, so feel bad. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #49
Why don't you listen to what PoC ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #52
"White privilege exists and those that deny it are as bad as climate change deniers...."............ AverageJoe90 May 2014 #26
there are none so blind... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #29
The BS alert didn't get far hobbit709 May 2014 #30
Hilarious...Love it! VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #36
I'm shocked I tell you just shocked. giftedgirl77 May 2014 #3
Me too, gg!! Shall we collectively pick ourselves from off of the floor and retire to the fainting Number23 May 2014 #65
What difference does it make what O'Reilly thinks? badtoworse May 2014 #4
Well you know that privilege crowd has to stick together. William769 May 2014 #5
When was the last time Bellow looked in a mirror? Blue Owl May 2014 #6
Birds of a feather and all that. Squinch May 2014 #7
Looks like some DUers agree with O'Reilly Whisp May 2014 #9
Is that how we define ourselves? Shandris May 2014 #10
Indeed! White Priv does not exist except in imaginations! Whisp May 2014 #11
But that isn't what the posts said, now, is it? Shandris May 2014 #13
What other things do you agree with O'Reilly on? Whisp May 2014 #14
Please reread what I said. Shandris May 2014 #17
No Cali_Democrat May 2014 #15
Pointing it out seems fine. Shandris May 2014 #16
I get nervous too when I hear Bill O'Reilly's slimey voice here. n/t Whisp May 2014 #18
Perhaps you shouldn't listen to clips that contain him, then. Shandris May 2014 #19
I wasn't talking about clips, I was talking about his ideas that have infiltrated here. Whisp May 2014 #20
I'll have to watch out for these people I suppose. Shandris May 2014 #23
Don't waste your time trying to be nuanced or reasonable with this crowd. Comrade Grumpy May 2014 #24
I've been tossed on my share of metaphorical fires... Shandris May 2014 #27
You rock Shandris. Stay calm and carry on. Vattel May 2014 #61
This, times infinity! =) AverageJoe90 May 2014 #77
Huh? You are a confused person, seems to me. randys1 May 2014 #31
Don't waste your time trying to be nuanced and reasonable with that crowd Number23 May 2014 #66
And what is scary is these are suppose to be the good guys randys1 May 2014 #68
Don't worry ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #83
Part of my anger over this shit is that as a white guy randys1 May 2014 #107
But take heart ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #109
it has to be done? hfojvt May 2014 #78
For the 8,000th time ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #85
" I think the biggest obstacle to growth is our standing in/refusal to get out of, our own way." AverageJoe90 May 2014 #90
It is not "growth" ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #94
You have no idea..... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #95
No, I have no idea as to the irony ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #96
"I'd love to see where this......idea comes from" See post 86. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #97
I will be open to changing my mind on this topic ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #100
Becasue we need more threads about this. n/t Gore1FL May 2014 #12
It's obvious we need a bunch more threads on it. boston bean May 2014 #21
Because the first 20,000 went so far in solving this... Gore1FL May 2014 #34
I actually think you would be surprised.... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #37
However many it takes as far as I'm concerned boston bean May 2014 #41
Because doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is totally reasonable. n/t Gore1FL May 2014 #48
One could hope. Never discussing it again, will definitely result in nothing different. boston bean May 2014 #57
Exposing it isn't doing the same thing over and over again because there are different people who'll uponit7771 May 2014 #71
Maybe...Until we can all accept and address it here, surely the likes of billo never will randys1 May 2014 #32
It largely is. Gore1FL May 2014 #39
No, that is not the case. If you read the threads, you will boston bean May 2014 #42
When I see people getting upset, it is about the nuance of the verbiage. Gore1FL May 2014 #47
Tht is your opinion and may I humbly suggest you are incorrect. boston bean May 2014 #58
No, I'm afraid he's dead on. And it's not at all hard to see if your open your eyes, like I did. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #74
you and about ten others agree. Have fun! boston bean May 2014 #75
I'm still waiting for him to post ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #98
Bill O's just trolling us; he can't be "exempt" from something that doesn't tangibly exist......... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #25
Wow, a coherent reply, nice to see here anymore. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #53
Wait....what? Stuckinthebush May 2014 #28
You have no idea how vigorously some deny it..... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #33
Crazy Stuckinthebush May 2014 #63
Many DUers, in all likelihood, *don't* believe in "white privilege"...... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #45
Some duers don't believe in many things. bravenak May 2014 #62
LOL........=p AverageJoe90 May 2014 #105
there is no "many DUer's" who think this... VanillaRhapsody May 2014 #67
And apparently, NO social scientists ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #101
Class privilege exists. sulphurdunn May 2014 #35
Oh no it doesn't. boston bean May 2014 #44
You can be genuinely concerned about inequality...... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #46
Oh, you didn't like my sarcastic right wing response? boston bean May 2014 #59
You caught that, huh ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #102
Privilege of all white people, sulphurdunn May 2014 #60
Where is that nonsense ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #103
It does not follow sulphurdunn May 2014 #106
Your logic construction is flawed, and does not reflect what I said ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #108
Your logic essentially sulphurdunn May 2014 #111
No .. 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #115
And a passel of DUers agree. eom 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #38
O'Reilly is an idiot Gothmog May 2014 #51
Put simply: it's more lucrative Jamaal510 May 2014 #54
I don't believe Bill O'Reilly exists. greendog May 2014 #55
DUzy. =) AverageJoe90 May 2014 #76
Far to many here agree with Bill O. sheshe2 May 2014 #56
Wow. Bill O'Reilly has company at DU. Never would have thought this would happen years ago. RedCappedBandit May 2014 #64
I wonder what his DU screen name is? DanTex May 2014 #69
LOL gollygee May 2014 #72
+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #88
Fail. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #91
At least he made something of himself with his white privilege even if he doesn't believe in it Fumesucker May 2014 #92
... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #104
Let me help Harmony Blue May 2014 #113
If there was no white privilege, Billo JEB May 2014 #110
The British used to insist that Irish were not "white". He is old enough to remember that. McCamy Taylor May 2014 #112
 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
2. White privilege exists and those that deny it are as bad as climate change deniers....
Thu May 15, 2014, 04:21 PM
May 2014

I am a white male in my mid 50's. I am well educated with a B.A. and a doctorate degree. I am also gay.

I see everyday how I benefit from the fact I am WHITE and to a lesser degree male. In my profession (IT) women are very much competitive and seen.

I cannot deny that my ethnicity is a plus up for me. Based on many studies it appears my gender is still also a plus up.

For me while I do not hide my sexual orientation, this has not affected my ability to be hired and retain good jobs and otherwise enjoy a fairly carefree life.

 

phil89

(1,043 posts)
8. How do you conclude it's your whiteness that is giving you an advantage?
Thu May 15, 2014, 05:16 PM
May 2014

Anything objective or just a hunch?

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
22. There's never been anything objective that I can see, in terms of answers.
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:29 PM
May 2014

Because frankly, there are none.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
40. What would you accept as "objective evidence" ...
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:13 PM
May 2014

Since scores of academic studies and more anecdotal responses seem not to suffice?

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
43. "Since scores of academic studies and more anecdotal responses seem not to suffice?"
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:27 PM
May 2014

And herein lies the problem. In terms of academia, "white privilege" wasn't originally meant to be a *literal* thing, but rather something of philosophical reflection. The literalist interpretation now so popular amongst angsty (or troll-esque in some cases) Tumblr types is definitely a more recent development.

And furthermore, anecdotal & other actual evidence that exists of real-world discrimination, whether personal and/or institutional, does not = literal "privilege" of white people. This isn't rocket science, fella.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
50. I love how you invent terms ...
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:46 PM
May 2014

Last edited Fri May 16, 2014, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

(Literal privilege) but refuse to accept the terms of actual social scientists, then use your pseudo - informed definition to interpret what those social scientists might. {Editted to Correct "Meant"}

That's true commitment to a bogus argument ... fella.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
73. "That's true commitment to a bogus argument ... " Speak for yourself......pot, meet kettle.
Fri May 16, 2014, 11:28 AM
May 2014

Furthermore, I didn't invent said intrepretation(I mean, that should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about this). I am merely describing it. World of difference, there.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
79. I can ONLY speak for myself ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:19 PM
May 2014

But I am not the one inventing terms/definition; then using that invented term/definition to "interpret" what the social scientists have said in such a way to further your opinion on this matter ... No, I rely on the work of social scientists; then, use their work, including their conclusions, to inform my thoughts.

Link to a single social scientist that holds your interpretation. I'd love to see where this "literal white privilege versus philosophical white privilege" idea comes from ... though I can already guess.

I'll wait.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
86. "But I am not the one inventing....." Nobody needed to. It was already there.
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:49 PM
May 2014
I'd love to see where this "literal white privilege versus philosophical white privilege" idea comes from ... though I can already guess.


The thing is, is that "white privilege" was originally supposed to be a philosophical thing; a "look from someone else's perspective" type of deal. However, though, as I've pointed out before, in more recent terms, the term was re-defined by some more radical individuals; as these folks told it, "white privilege" was now a tangible thing. According to this definition, white people somehow possessed actual above-the-norm type privileges.....while the disadvantaged were the real "norm". Which might actually have made some sense in, say, pre-Mandela (pre-1994) South Africa, in which blacks were the actual majority group but had no power at all.....but not so much in the U.S., where white folks had never been anything other than the majority(and never mind the barriers of class, religion, etc.).

Of course, to be truthful, there are probably those out there who can explain the truth of the matter better than I can.....so perhaps it'd be best for me to leave it to them, if any choose to come forward.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
93. So ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 01:13 PM
May 2014
The thing is, is that "white privilege" was originally supposed to be a philosophical thing; a "look from someone else's perspective" type of deal.


No link to these social scientists? I thought I knew the origins of the "literal versus philosophical white privilege" concept. Two questions though ... did you wipe and why didn't you flush?

However, though, as I've pointed out before, in more recent terms, the term was re-defined by some more radical individuals; as these folks told it, "white privilege" was now a tangible thing.


Radical individuals?

But I guess ... in a way, you have a point, academicians challenging the decades old dominant thought to reflect their decades of study, is by definition "radical."

According to this definition, white people somehow possessed actual above-the-norm type privileges.....while the disadvantaged were the real "norm". Which might actually have made some sense in, say, pre-Mandela (pre-1994) South Africa, in which blacks were the actual majority group but had no power at all.....but not so much in the U.S., where white folks had never been anything other than the majority(and never mind the barriers of class, religion, etc.).


"... disadvantaged were the real 'norm'."? Wow ... Did you read and/or think about what you wrote before you hit the "post my reply" button? That just demonstrates how deeply you misunderstand what social scientists (and those that understand them) have actually been saying.

Of course, to be truthful, there are probably those out there who can explain the truth of the matter better than I can.....so perhaps it'd be best for me to leave it to them, if any choose to come forward.


I completely agree ... these folks are called social scientists/academicians; but I doubt they agree with your interpretation of their works. So, you best hope they DON'T show up.

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
70. The term has been around for generations in different forms, I don't see how that changes the
Fri May 16, 2014, 10:13 AM
May 2014

... fact that it exist and is palliable

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
80. Some think all opinions/voices on a topic are of equal value ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:24 PM
May 2014

BTW ... Why won't Stephen Hawking accept or even answer my calls to debate my ideas on theoretical physics, specifically my concept of "alternative translated dark matter"? After all, I read a couple books on physics and divined the concept.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
82. Still waiting for ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:42 PM
May 2014

Your link to a single social scientist that holds your interpretation of white privilege. I'd love to see where this "literal white privilege versus philosophical white privilege" idea comes from ... though I can already guess.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
87. See post 86. Very basic explanation of the difference.
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:50 PM
May 2014

It may not be perfect, but it's at least a start.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
89. Here ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:50 PM
May 2014


I don't mind sharing ... but I think we need to lay out plans to get more popcorn and drink.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
52. Why don't you listen to what PoC ...
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:55 PM
May 2014

And other that acknowledge W/P, actually say; rather than what the deniers of W/P think they hear.

I suspect you will not see what you claim.

Kind of like the right saying that the left refer to PBO as "the one" ... or those who say they have heard Black people refer to white people as "honkey" or "whitey" (any time in the 21st century ... I think they hear their own words and think it's coming from PoC.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
26. "White privilege exists and those that deny it are as bad as climate change deniers...."............
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:41 PM
May 2014

Nice ad hominem there.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
29. there are none so blind...
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:49 PM
May 2014

as those who will not see....


but it seems you are in good company with BillO!

Perhaps you and he could go to Atlanta together and order Chicken and Waffles!

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
30. The BS alert didn't get far
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:52 PM
May 2014

On Thu May 15, 2014, 05:42 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

White privilege exists and those that deny it are as bad as climate change deniers....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4959070

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"White privilege exists and those that deny it are as bad as climate change deniers"? Really?

Last I checked, ad hominems were against CS here on DU.....

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu May 15, 2014, 05:46 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: NOT an ad hominem attack, LEAVE IT!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh good grief. Oh good grief. Oh good grief. - Charlie Brown now has tourettes syndrome, congratulations.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter needs to get a grip
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: silly alert
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ridiculous alert.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Number23

(24,544 posts)
65. Me too, gg!! Shall we collectively pick ourselves from off of the floor and retire to the fainting
Thu May 15, 2014, 10:01 PM
May 2014

couch where we'll at least be a bit more comfortable?

 

badtoworse

(5,957 posts)
4. What difference does it make what O'Reilly thinks?
Thu May 15, 2014, 04:25 PM
May 2014

Do you base you position on what other people think? Whatever merit the "white privilege" meme has should stand on its own.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
9. Looks like some DUers agree with O'Reilly
Thu May 15, 2014, 05:26 PM
May 2014
was invented for stuff like this.
They must be feeling proud about now. And Right, Dammit! lol
 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
10. Is that how we define ourselves?
Thu May 15, 2014, 05:42 PM
May 2014

By checking what every idiotic right-winger has to say and making sure we're opposite of that?

That may be among the most bone-headed things I've ever heard said in my entire life. Literally, literally identifying ourselves by what Republicans believe and say (and, even moreso, without comparing the reasons or nuance behind something).

, indeed.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
11. Indeed! White Priv does not exist except in imaginations!
Thu May 15, 2014, 05:49 PM
May 2014
x a googleplex

I challenge anyone who believes that to put on a hoodie, paint yourself other than white and go strolling around a gated community, or jogging near one.
 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
13. But that isn't what the posts said, now, is it?
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:00 PM
May 2014

The posts were a bunch of people talking about birds of a feather, know them by their kind, and all kinds of other lame insinuations that to share a single belief -- no matter what it is -- with a rightwinger is to be one.

I don't care if some people don't believe privilege exists at all; people are allowed to be wrong. The problem is when you get to the point that sharing any singular belief with someone else makes you just like them.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
14. What other things do you agree with O'Reilly on?
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:03 PM
May 2014

Me, probably nothing. Maybe if he had a hot cuppa coffee and spilled it on his GOP lap he'd yell: Hey, That's Hot! I might agree with that. Generally Republicans of this age are wrong about most everything.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
17. Please reread what I said.
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:18 PM
May 2014

I never once said I agreed with O'Reilly -at all- now, did I?

I agree that Republicans are -generally- wrong on most things. That doesn't mean I -measure- myself by whether or not something I -may- think aligns with something 'they' may think. That's what a cult does.

Edit: Overly antagonistic title. Changed, and my apologies.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
15. No
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:09 PM
May 2014

But the fact remains that it tends to be right wing conservatives who deny white privilege and even feel it's the straight white male who faces real discrimination.

Pointing out that some DUers are in agreement with the likes of O'Reilly, Stormfront, and Free Republic when it comes to white privilege is something that has to be done.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
16. Pointing it out seems fine.
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:14 PM
May 2014

It's when one goes the extra step and begins to -equate- the two that I get nervous (and I'm not accusing anyone directly). It's just one of those fine-line things that you (generic) have to watch out for.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
19. Perhaps you shouldn't listen to clips that contain him, then.
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:21 PM
May 2014

If you meant something else, have the courage to say it.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
20. I wasn't talking about clips, I was talking about his ideas that have infiltrated here.
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:24 PM
May 2014

all in the name of some insist is 'free speech' for fucks sake, like Skinner is The Government.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
23. I'll have to watch out for these people I suppose.
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:31 PM
May 2014

Thankfully I don't know of any right offhand, although I'm sure there are a handful or more that would love to point to me. But like I often say...people are allowed to be wrong.

But really, I don't see too many people outright denying the academic concept existing. I made a lengthy post on that topic just last night. Granted, I don't read all of the threads that closely once they hit over 50+ replies or so, so its entirely possible I've overlooked them on accident. I certainly haven't seen anyone saying they didn't believe in privilege because they couldn't tan. See, reasoning can make a huge difference.

Someone who says WP is a misnomer because it is only a small part of an intersectionality, and someone who says it doesn't -exist- because they can't tan are two entirely different things...apparently except for on DU.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
24. Don't waste your time trying to be nuanced or reasonable with this crowd.
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:35 PM
May 2014

They just want to burn the witches.

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
27. I've been tossed on my share of metaphorical fires...
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:41 PM
May 2014

...but I just can't help myself. If reason won't carry the day, then we as a people are doomed to return to the caves. But I do thank you for the kind words.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
31. Huh? You are a confused person, seems to me.
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:59 PM
May 2014

BillO is a pile of garbage.

He has brainwashed some good people that I know and knew in my life, I hate him for that.

Of course there is white privilege unlike any other privilege known to human kind.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
66. Don't waste your time trying to be nuanced and reasonable with that crowd
Thu May 15, 2014, 10:05 PM
May 2014

Some here enjoy deliberate blindness as if it were a fine cognac.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
83. Don't worry ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:44 PM
May 2014

you'll get past it ... you will eventually come to the point where you accept that some are NOT the good guy, on this topic.

On the bright side, you will only be tangentially affected.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
107. Part of my anger over this shit is that as a white guy
Fri May 16, 2014, 06:52 PM
May 2014

i am both angered by the way white people act plus I am not the one who can understand it the way I know you and others can

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
78. it has to be done?
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:01 PM
May 2014

Why?

Because it proves something?

Because people with SOME beliefs need to be stigmatized and ostracized and pilloried?

So are you trying to convince me that I have been wrong to support Democrats all these years? That I should leave this group and go hang out with other people who will be more in agreement with me?

Or just trying to convince the choir that they should shun some people?

Many people here are already convinced of this little truism - there are two kinds of people in this world, there are those who agree with me, and there are a$$holes.

I don't find such an attitude to be conducive to conviviality or progress either.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
85. For the 8,000th time ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:49 PM
May 2014

the fact that you *feel* "stigmatized and ostracized and pilloried", only shows that you are listening to the voices in your head (and those that feel equally stigmatized and ostracized and pilloried), rather than to what anyone is actually saying.

I think the biggest obstacle to growth is our standing in/refusal to get out of, our own way.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
90. " I think the biggest obstacle to growth is our standing in/refusal to get out of, our own way."
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:52 PM
May 2014

No offense, but you could really take some of your own advice once in a while.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
94. It is not "growth" ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 01:20 PM
May 2014

to cling to antiquated concepts; rather than accepting the work of the social scientists that are advancing the understanding of their field of study.

Here:

the fact that you *feel* "stigmatized and ostracized and pilloried", only shows that you are listening to the voices in your head (and those that feel equally stigmatized and ostracized and pilloried), rather than to what anyone is actually saying.


This will give you something to do, while you avoid posting anything that approaches academic support for you "literal versus philosophical white privilege" sophistry.
 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
95. You have no idea.....
Fri May 16, 2014, 01:40 PM
May 2014

In reference to this, btw:


the fact that you *feel* "stigmatized and ostracized and pilloried", only shows that you are listening to the voices in your head (and those that feel equally stigmatized and ostracized and pilloried), rather than to what anyone is actually saying.


Do you have any clue as to how ironic this is? Really?


This will give you something to do, while you avoid posting anything that approaches academic support for you "literal versus philosophical white privilege" sophistry.


 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
96. No, I have no idea as to the irony ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 01:48 PM
May 2014

Please explain it.

Can I expect the explanation before or after you post a link to a single social scientist that holds your interpretation. I'd love to see where this "literal white privilege versus philosophical white privilege" idea comes from.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
97. "I'd love to see where this......idea comes from" See post 86.
Fri May 16, 2014, 01:53 PM
May 2014

Not that you seem to really care much, of course(as can be seen). And frankly, given your past interactions with myself & others, I have reason to doubt you would change your mind even with the most detailed refutation anyone could offer. Which is your right, of course.........but I have just as much of a right to criticize and point out inaccuracies, etc. when I see them. So it's a two way street.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
100. I will be open to changing my mind on this topic ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 02:04 PM
May 2014

when you post a link to a single social scientist that holds your interpretation that the social scientists intended a "literal white privilege versus philosophical white privilege" distinction.

.........but I have just as much of a right to criticize and point out inaccuracies, etc. when I see them. So it's a two way street.


But when your criticisms and pointed out inaccuracies are based on antiquated understanding of the topic ... not so much. The Earth still is spherical, despite ships appearing to fall off the edge of the Earth and Climate Change is occurring, despite it snowing every winter.

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
71. Exposing it isn't doing the same thing over and over again because there are different people who'll
Fri May 16, 2014, 10:15 AM
May 2014

... it'll be exposed to.

Don't see the issue with talking about it and making it notable.


I do understand a subject can be beat to death on DU but there seems to be a faction of deniers


I think the discussion does more good than bad

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
39. It largely is.
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:10 PM
May 2014

Now it's all about semantics and the many differing perception of those semantics. In many cases, people are vehemently agreeing.

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
47. When I see people getting upset, it is about the nuance of the verbiage.
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:34 PM
May 2014

In any event, beating a dead horse is not the solution.

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
58. Tht is your opinion and may I humbly suggest you are incorrect.
Thu May 15, 2014, 08:31 PM
May 2014

We don't have to agree, but don't think that just because you haven't seen it, doesn't make what others say untrue.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
74. No, I'm afraid he's dead on. And it's not at all hard to see if your open your eyes, like I did. nt
Fri May 16, 2014, 11:33 AM
May 2014
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
98. I'm still waiting for him to post ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 01:53 PM
May 2014

a Link to a single social scientist that holds his interpretation that the social scientists intended a "literal white privilege versus philosophical white privilege" distinction.

AND, I'm still waiting for Stephen Hawking to accept, or even answer, my calls to debate my ideas on theoretical physics, specifically my concept of "alternative translated dark matter"? After all, I read a couple books on physics and divined the concept.

I guess, I'll get the responses on the same day ... the 12th of never.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
25. Bill O's just trolling us; he can't be "exempt" from something that doesn't tangibly exist.........
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:38 PM
May 2014

in the first place, anyway.

In all honesty, there a good number of liberals who've never even heard of the term "white privilege", anyway, including some People of Color and women, etc.


Of course if you go to Free Republic or Stormfront, I'm sure they also believe white privilege doesn't exist.


Oh, many of them do, Cali_Democrat. Believe me, I've done *plenty* of research on white supremacists. They believe they're specially privileged, alright; only they believe that said (imaginary!) "privilege" is a good thing given to them by God (or implied by law), and that these God-given beneficial privileges are being taken away by a Zionist/Communist/Satanist/etc. cabal of "anti-white" "Fabian socialists"......they may not use that language, of course, but that's what the core of their beliefs revolving around the supposed "dangers" to Western civilization are.

Stuckinthebush

(10,845 posts)
28. Wait....what?
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:45 PM
May 2014

I've not been looking at all these threads but we seriously do not have DUers who say that there is no such thing as White privilege do we?

Can't be. If so then that's just intensely uninformed.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
33. You have no idea how vigorously some deny it.....
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:04 PM
May 2014

pretty much 99% of them are White males though and they either are or know a poor White guy so White privilege cannot possibly exist!

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
45. Many DUers, in all likelihood, *don't* believe in "white privilege"......
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:30 PM
May 2014

at least not in the "literal" sense.....and in fact, some liberals in general have no idea what it is, either.

Only thing is, is that many of those who don't, really don't seem to have as much of a stake in making that known. And I'm okay with that.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
67. there is no "many DUer's" who think this...
Thu May 15, 2014, 11:36 PM
May 2014

its a small minority....much to your dismay. Most here disagree with you....

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
35. Class privilege exists.
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:07 PM
May 2014

It's most extreme expression is white class privilege. But the idea that whites have some obligation to blame themselves in an orgy of public remorse over it in order to be "authentic" liberals is not useful. It is odd that conservatives and liberals would conveniently begin trumpeting a divisive debate over it at the same time. Maybe, we can look forward to a 24/7 analysis of "White Privilege Fact or Fiction" coverage on MSM for a few weeks or until someone finally bleeds because of it.

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
44. Oh no it doesn't.
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:27 PM
May 2014

Some people are born into wealth. What do you expect from them. To worry about anothers inequality. They can't help it. It's just who they are.

What you want them to give up their money?

They work hard for that money. In many cases some are self made rich. They certainly don't have any privilege, they worked for everything they got. Why do they have to worry about about others experiences.

for those who may be sarcasm impaired.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
46. You can be genuinely concerned about inequality......
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:31 PM
May 2014

without believing in literal "privilege" of white people. It's not that hard. End of Message, End of Story.

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
59. Oh, you didn't like my sarcastic right wing response?
Thu May 15, 2014, 08:32 PM
May 2014

Well, neither do I.

You've added something new to the conversation here. What's your definition of "literal" privilege?

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
60. Privilege of all white people,
Thu May 15, 2014, 08:39 PM
May 2014

some white people, a few white people? The problem with the white privilege meme is that it equates an entire race of people with institutional racism, and that is nonsense. The hardest blows every struck against that system have been struck by Americans of every race, privileged and not. End of message. End of story.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
103. Where is that nonsense ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 02:31 PM
May 2014
The problem with the white privilege meme is that it equates an entire race of people with institutional racism, and that is nonsense.


If you acknowledge that institutional racism disadvantages an entire race of people; doesn't it follow that the entire race of people NOT disadvantaged are benefited?

The hardest blows every struck against that system have been struck by Americans of every race, privileged and not.


Very true. How does that argue against W/P?
 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
106. It does not follow
Fri May 16, 2014, 06:00 PM
May 2014

"If you acknowledge that institutional racism disadvantages an entire race of people; doesn't it follow that the entire race of people NOT disadvantaged are benefited?"

If all A's are B's then all C's cannot be B's i.e If all whites are privileged then all non-whites cannot be privileged.

I live in rural Appalachia. There are plenty of white people here who are as poor or poorer than any people in North America. The irony is that many of them think they are better than their non-white neighbors because they're white. They think they have more in common with the rich man who lives in the big house in the gated community down the road because he's white too, even though he wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. Whatever else that kind of delusional thinking is, it isn't privilege.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
108. Your logic construction is flawed, and does not reflect what I said ...
Fri May 16, 2014, 07:16 PM
May 2014

The proper construction would be: If all A's (white people) are B's (privileged), and B is a function of W (race), and C's (PoC) cannot be A's; then, C's cannot be B's.

At any rate ... you cannot believe in wealth privilege, right?

I live in rural Appalachia. There are plenty of white people here who are as poor or poorer than any people in North America. The irony is that many of them think they are better than their non-white neighbors because they're white. They think they have more in common with the rich man who lives in the big house in the gated community down the road because he's white too


And that poor white person would be correct ... when it comes to institutional racism; which IS what white privilege is all about ... every white person, rich or poor, is equally unaffected. But institutional racism does nothing to affect the relative position of that poor white person to that rich white person.

AND, there will be Blacks that (despite institutional racism), will achieve more wealth than a white person ... But that can only be seen as note-worthy from a white privilege frame where whites are supposed to achieve more wealth than Blacks.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
111. Your logic essentially
Fri May 16, 2014, 11:53 PM
May 2014

posits the same argument as mine. The quibble is more semantic than substantive. Institutional racism is prejudice backed by power. That institution cannot be overcome without the assistance from those who benefit from it. If the white privilege frame leads you to believe that all white people benefit from institutional racism then believe it. I don't. Progressive movements are successful when they unite, not when they divide. It is the rich who oppress the poor, not the white who oppresses the black. The white man living in a trailer park was not born a member of some malignant institutional collective because of who his parents were.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
115. No ..
Sun May 18, 2014, 04:57 PM
May 2014

Your construction attempts to deny privilege; whereas, mine, proves it.

But that said ... the divisiveness that you find is only possible when potential allies in the class battle seek to dismiss the interests of others by clinging to the racial status quo, which is white privilege.

If whites, in general, and " liberals", in particular, would reject all facets of the racial status quo, you would find powerful allies in PoC.

As it stands, your dismissiveness merely gives our mutual oppressors room to operate.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
54. Put simply: it's more lucrative
Thu May 15, 2014, 08:06 PM
May 2014

for Billo et al. to keep their viewers comfy inside a 1950s bubble. His job is to shut down the discussion and to convince his viewers that folks are crybabies and detractors for demanding a more level playing field. The average person knows that people, still to this day, get discriminated against due to factors outside of their control such as their color, their gender, their sexual orientation, or what their last name is. But to him and his RW talking head peers, it's far worse to retaliate against (and call out) discrimination than to be the perpetrator.

greendog

(3,127 posts)
55. I don't believe Bill O'Reilly exists.
Thu May 15, 2014, 08:08 PM
May 2014

I'm pretty sure he's some demented billionaire's ventriloquist dummy.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
92. At least he made something of himself with his white privilege even if he doesn't believe in it
Fri May 16, 2014, 12:55 PM
May 2014

Unlike those loser poor whites who played the game of life on the easy setting and still lost by the only way we have of keeping score in America, your investment portfolio.

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