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Sat May 24, 2014, 02:28 PM

Can any think of an instance when privatizing or deregulating something benefited the public?

I cannot think of one instance where a entity or business that was regulated and then privatized or deregulated benefited the general public.





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Reply Can any think of an instance when privatizing or deregulating something benefited the public? (Original post)
KauaiK May 2014 OP
GoneFishin May 2014 #1
Jenoch May 2014 #2
McCamy Taylor May 2014 #3
Algernon Moncrieff May 2014 #5
KauaiK May 2014 #7
Jenoch May 2014 #19
TransitJohn May 2014 #36
Jenoch May 2014 #37
bemildred May 2014 #42
backscatter712 May 2014 #43
Algernon Moncrieff May 2014 #4
KauaiK May 2014 #6
Algernon Moncrieff May 2014 #21
Major Nikon May 2014 #35
Algernon Moncrieff May 2014 #38
Major Nikon May 2014 #40
arely staircase May 2014 #8
Armstead May 2014 #15
AngryAmish May 2014 #9
Leme May 2014 #10
Name removed May 2014 #11
Leme May 2014 #12
TM99 May 2014 #13
Armstead May 2014 #16
TM99 May 2014 #23
Brother Buzz May 2014 #14
Rosa Luxemburg May 2014 #17
bemildred May 2014 #18
AnalystInParadise May 2014 #20
Exposethefrauds May 2014 #25
alarimer May 2014 #22
justgamma May 2014 #31
Chan790 May 2014 #33
pnwmom May 2014 #39
quadrature May 2014 #24
SamKnause May 2014 #26
Recursion May 2014 #27
BainsBane May 2014 #28
quaker bill May 2014 #29
jwirr May 2014 #30
joshcryer May 2014 #32
Jamastiene May 2014 #34
Skittles May 2014 #41

Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 02:42 PM

1. I know the private water and sewer facility servicing my place only charges $800 a year

and I get to keep the pipes connected to my house 24/7/365 even if I never use them.

So there's that.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 02:47 PM

2. Breaking up the Bell Telephone System seemed to have made telecommunications more competitive.

 

Deregulating the airlines seems to have put the inefficient airlines out of business. Back in the day, families could not afford to fly to destinations. Only the rich and business people mostly were able to afford to fly.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Sat May 24, 2014, 02:48 PM

3. That was breaking up a monopoly. Not the same thing as giving away something public owned.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #3)

Sat May 24, 2014, 02:59 PM

5. The OP said privatizing or deregulating something benefited the public

The breakup of the Bell System included accompanying deregulation regarding who could sell long distancee service.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:25 PM

7. Before the break up...you didn't have to BUY your device

It's was provided as part of the service.

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Response to KauaiK (Reply #7)

Sat May 24, 2014, 05:09 PM

19. Yeah, you had to rent the phone with a monthly charge.

 

It is much cheaper to buy the phone.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Sun May 25, 2014, 04:50 PM

36. Uh, what? Ma Bell was already private.

I don't understand your reply.

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #36)

Sun May 25, 2014, 04:52 PM

37. The breakup of Bell led to the deregulation

 

of telecommunications companies.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon May 26, 2014, 10:44 AM

42. I think it was better before they broke it up.

They should have nationalized it instead.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #2)

Mon May 26, 2014, 10:49 AM

43. That wasn't de-regulating. That was enforcing anti-monopoly laws.

Wouldn't it be nice if the anti-trust laws got enforced on occasion like they used to?

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 02:56 PM

4. Airline territories

Despite all of the consolidation among airlines, compeitive routes have made air travel between major cities much more affordable.

The old ICC had some really boneheaded rule. I cite "Smokey & the Bandit" as an easy to understand case-in-point. Restrictions on the sale of certain products in certain regions of the company were silly and served nobody's interest. Now, we don't have to take a Trans Am and a Semi to Texarkana to have Coors beer at a party in Atlanta.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #4)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:24 PM

6. BUT they stopped servicing small markets

AND pricing to smaller markets skyrocketed.

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Response to KauaiK (Reply #6)

Sat May 24, 2014, 09:27 PM

21. Greatest good for the greatest number

There are far more fliers in the big markets that benefited from lower fares than fliers in smaller markets who lost access to a quick trip to the airport.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #21)

Sun May 25, 2014, 04:49 PM

35. I'm not sure you can say that benefitted the greatest number of people

About half of airline travel is business related and when you increase the cost of doing business in less densely populated areas, you hamper economic growth in those areas.

It would be like saying we are going to only build roads in urban areas because that directly benefits more people. While that might be true the flaw in that method is readily apparent.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #35)

Sun May 25, 2014, 10:25 PM

38. Roads are different than air travel

Air travel isn't used to move items in bulk from less densely populated areas in the same way that motor ground transport and rail are. Even air freight parcels are generally shipped into major markets; sorted; and dispatched out of the major markets.

In terms of passenger travel, business travelers doing New-York to LA, New York to Miami, DC-NY-Bos shuttle, and travel to and from Dallas, Atlanta, and Chicago benefitted greatly in terms of lower cost.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #38)

Sun May 25, 2014, 11:46 PM

40. Obviously

But the cost of moving people still influences business decisions and the cost of doing business. If you have a business that relies heavily on business travel, you are going to pay a penalty for locating that business away from a major airline hub. That's why airlines were regulated in the first place and it's also why the Essential Air Service program exists. Having an airport in a community and air service is important for a number of reasons.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:28 PM

8. airlines? maybe?

I know how fucked up they are, but didn't flying used to be a more elitist means of transportation because of pricing?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #8)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:57 PM

15. Got better, now it's gettung wose..A familiar pattern

 

Things get deregulated or privatized there is a period of establishing new markets and adjusting and new competition. Terefore consumers matter and pricing and products are competitive.

But inevitably it backfires. New Monopolies form, and this time without the restraints of regulation.

And guess who gets screwed s a result?

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:29 PM

9. Carter's deregulation of trucking and rail.

 

Huge efficiencies gained.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:34 PM

10. I think they decided

 

just a few years ago.. to not regulate personal production of beer for personal use.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)


Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:36 PM

12. maybe

 

that legal documents or banking stuff could be signed in blue ink

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:44 PM

13. ARPANET

 

Thanks in part to Al Gore, the Internet arose out of the ashes of this strictly government inter-network.

Now, we may have come full circle, and it will be important to once more have government regulation at least as far as classification purposes, but the Internet thrives due to private enterprise and will continue to do so if properly regulated.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #13)

Sat May 24, 2014, 04:01 PM

16. Tht's not in the plan

 

They are trying to 1)Hand over the Internet to a Massive Monopoly (Comcast) leaving only some token competition remaining, maybe.
2) Take away the restraints that prevent them from offering choice of good delivery and service or shitty delivery and service based titlly on price.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #16)

Sun May 25, 2014, 02:41 AM

23. Agreed.

 

And, the FCC has not yet ruled out Net Neutrality completely.

I have watched the Internet develop from the beginning. We are on the brink of destruction, that is for sure.

But that still doesn't change the fact that it has been an example of positive privatization. Human beings are just greedy shits.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 03:46 PM

14. Ah, good olí trustworthy beer. My love for you will never die

In 1979, Carter deregulated the beer market, which was tightly controlled since the end of prohibition. As a result, craft beers and brewpubs were able to make a go of it without becoming bogged down in the hellacious bureaucratic red tape that totally favored the 'Big boys'.

And as Martha Stewart would say, 'It's a good thing'.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 04:02 PM

17. No

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 04:10 PM

18. No, not one.

I can think of times the government got out of the way when it was over-regulating, and supporting monopolies, and wasting money on useless shit, but I can't think of a time it did the public any good when the government said "Go for it boys!", and sold off public services for peanuts, no.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 05:12 PM

20. Defense Contracting

 

with the deregulation of this industry, it has opened the door to thousands of small veteran owned defense contracting firms to be able to compete with the big boys, raising salaries across the board, while increasing employment.

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Response to AnalystInParadise (Reply #20)

Sun May 25, 2014, 06:11 AM

25. The industry has not been deregulated at all what you are talking about is how Congress passed laws

 

and presidents have signed EO's requiring agencies to award more work to smaller companies and large companies (Boeing, Lockheed) to give large percentages of work to smaller subcontractors.

Lockheed still takes in 25%+ of the DoD Budget every year, now they just share more of it with subs and front companies.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 10:08 PM

22. Beer.

I'm not kidding. Up until the Carter administration (I think), people were not allowed to brew beer at home. As a result, American beer sucked. Well, a lot of it still sucks. Home-brewing eventually led to the craft beer industry, which I think has been a boon overall to those who enjoy it.

And I guess you could say the end of Prohibition. Prohibition led to organized crime and many, many deaths by poisoning because people drank denatured and adulterated alcohols. Seriously, read the Poisoner's Handbook by Deborah Blum.

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Response to alarimer (Reply #22)

Sun May 25, 2014, 01:54 PM

31. Liquor stores.

Used to be run by the state when I was young.

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Response to justgamma (Reply #31)

Sun May 25, 2014, 02:06 PM

33. Still are in many jurisdictions...never were in a lot of other jurisdictions.

 

It's entirely a consequence of where you live.

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Response to justgamma (Reply #31)

Sun May 25, 2014, 10:28 PM

39. They did that in WA state a couple years ago and prices have gone up.

Because they're paying taxes to the state AND charging customers for their profit.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 03:10 AM

24. Airlines and trucking ... nt

 

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 06:52 AM

26. When privatizing and

deregulating is enacted, it is not intended to benefit the public.

The intent is to benefit corporations, shareholders, CEO's, Wall Street, lobbyists, and inept corrupt politicians.

The history of privatization and deregulation is verifiable proof.

Governments think the public is stupid and uninformed.

Many are.

They are good at selling lies and deceit.

The answer to your question is no.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 07:07 AM

27. Not much in the US; we've never had many nationalized industries

I can think of more explicitly socialist countries (eg, India) where de-nationalization has been (at least from time to time) a good thing.

The whole terminology is kind of Orwellian: it's not like the US has ever been particularly nationalized. The closest thing was Bell Telephones (which was essentially funded by a mandated tax), and its breakup was the closest example of "good" privatization the US has seen (though it too was a mixed bag).

Mostly, "privatization" in the context of the US means oligarchization and removal of actual capitalist competition. (Yet another reminder that "real" capitalism isn't the enemy here...)

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 07:23 AM

28. I actually can

In Brazil, the state controlled industry so tightly it let in few imports. That policy (Import Substitution Industrialization) was useful for a few decades because it allowed Brazil's economy to industrialize. By the nineties, however. it resulted in an economy where goods were very expensive, wages low, and a manufacturing elite reaped enormous profits. That state controlled economy was not at all left-wing, as one might assume. In fact those policies were maintained throughout two decades of right-wing dictatorship. Opening up Brazilian markets to imported goods actually helped consumers, Brazil's middle class. It was not enough to increase the middle class. That would come in the 2000s under Lula, but it was part of that process.

One example of the insanity was the state controlled telephone system. There were so few phone lines, you had to wait years and pay a fortune to buy a line. You couldn't call the phone company and have service set up. People ended up renting phone lines from people who owned them. It was very expensive and subject to all kinds of abuse. As soon as cell phones became available, Brazilians quickly purchased them and freed themselves from having to lease phones from individuals, so cell phones were widespread there before they were in the US.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 07:52 AM

29. it will be quite rare

Things were made public or regulated for a reason. Generally gov't goes out of its way to do something like this because the public demands it, usually to resolve a problem with the deregulated and private system.

Once we return to the previous state, all the problems solved crop up again.

Beer on the other hand is a contrarian example. In that case regulation was imposed to benefit a small group of corporate breweries. Removing regulation allowed innovation and diversity in that case.

If a regulation has the predominant effect of concentrating corporate dominance, removing it will often (but not always) be beneficial. However, if the regulation has the predominant effect of protecting public health, safety and welfare, it should be left alone or strengthened.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 09:37 AM

30. In MN there is one I can think of but it is still controlled by the state. Years ago many of the

persons with developmental disabilities ended up in the institutions. Today they are mostly in community based services. These services include both private and public foster care homes. What helps here is that the state still maintains control of the homes when its social workers inspect the homes - usually 2 times a year for each client - and the most important control the state has is that it controls what the home gets paid and must provide for that payment.

What was really good in this situation was that it broke the system that was present in the state run institutions and brought the people into the community where they can function to their highest level.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 02:03 PM

32. National park P3's.

Can't think of anything else.

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 02:39 PM

34. Nope. n/t

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Response to KauaiK (Original post)

Mon May 26, 2014, 05:40 AM

41. no

the point of privatizing is to RIP OFF the public

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