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redqueen

(115,103 posts)
Wed May 28, 2014, 12:31 PM May 2014

What is 'misandry'?

Generally, "misandry" refers to the hatred and oppression of men on a genotypic basis.

However, dictionary definitions often fall short, so let's examine what these men have to say:

As sociologist Allan Johnson notes, "misandry" has no place in a male-identified, male-centered world. Moreover, Johnson states: “And it takes almost no criticism at all in order for men to feel "bashed," like it's "open season on men." In fact, just saying "male privilege" or "patriarchy" can start eyes rolling and evoke that exasperated sense of "Here we go again.” (Allan Johnson, “Privilege, power and difference,” p. 197)

"Accusations of male bashing and man hating work to discredit feminism because people often confuse men as individuals with men as a dominant and privileged category of people. Given the reality of women's oppression, male privilege, and some men's enforcement of both, it's hardly surprising that EVERY woman should have moments when she resents or even "hates" men.” (Allan Johnson, "The gender knot," p. 107)

“Both movements (white supremacists and male supremacists) attack women and people of color for playing the victim card because they see white men as the real victims. (Michael Kimmel, "Privilege: A reader," p. 325)

The slightest deviation from male and white centeredness is perceived as a profound loss of privilege. This is why with each tiny step that women and minorities take toward equality, the outcry of white and male supremacists about how "oppressed" white men are has been getting louder.

The conservative backlash is in overdrive to protect their illegitimate, unethical, hierarchal system of privilege. Many White heterosexual men feel "oppressed" and rave about the mythic "misandry."

203 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What is 'misandry'? (Original Post) redqueen May 2014 OP
See: your posting history. name not needed May 2014 #1
lol quinnox May 2014 #2
I'd rather people check out your posts... here and in the men's group. redqueen May 2014 #3
Post removed Post removed May 2014 #38
I didn't accuse him of anything. redqueen May 2014 #49
So you were just ReallyQuiet about it Major Nikon May 2014 #67
Ugh. Again with the stalker bullshit. redqueen May 2014 #69
It's like deja-vu all over again Major Nikon May 2014 #73
I post links to you defending Warren Farrell here, redqueen May 2014 #85
I could give a shit less about Warren Farrell Major Nikon May 2014 #98
Your posts in that thread, and many others since then, here on DU, speak for themselves. nt redqueen May 2014 #100
As do yours Major Nikon May 2014 #109
As a man, I have to say that is completely untrue. closeupready May 2014 #5
See this passage of the OP ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #37
right on schedule. niyad May 2014 #7
I wonder if you are aware gollygee May 2014 #24
Are you kidding? Warpy May 2014 #32
Thanks for proving redqueen's point, predictably. n/t chervilant May 2014 #25
thanks for proving that accusations of misandry are really not honest geek tragedy May 2014 #45
BOOM CFLDem May 2014 #53
Hey, what was the context of your PM to sea that included the c-word? redqueen May 2014 #64
This message was self-deleted by its author CFLDem May 2014 #70
Did it not dawn on you that feminists who are opposed to the normalization of misogynist slurs redqueen May 2014 #75
This message was self-deleted by its author CFLDem May 2014 #84
Knock off the act. No one's buying it. nt redqueen May 2014 #88
This message was self-deleted by its author CFLDem May 2014 #90
are you aware of how creepy you are acting right now? nt geek tragedy May 2014 #92
Post removed Post removed May 2014 #95
"rabid fempack" geek tragedy May 2014 #97
Oh my Dorian Gray May 2014 #114
It is, isn't it? CFLDem May 2014 #116
I meant your posts. Dorian Gray May 2014 #117
I know you did CFLDem May 2014 #118
This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger May 2014 #124
Too bad it's not permanent. The fear is strong in that one. Squinch May 2014 #125
no...just you noiretextatique May 2014 #187
troll and not a good one CreekDog Jun 2014 #200
It is creepy as hell. JTFrog May 2014 #136
BTW, sending PMs to adversaries is a tactic of intimidation...does not work with me noiretextatique May 2014 #194
I can't stand the poor men crowd. hrmjustin May 2014 #4
it is the same sort of mindset that allows xians to whine about how oppressed and niyad May 2014 #9
Good analogy! Raksha May 2014 #110
Well, yes and no. Warpy May 2014 #36
A swing and a miss ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #39
Partially correct Warpy May 2014 #76
Again ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #93
And importantly, they are not oppressed on the basis of their sex or ethnicity. nt redqueen May 2014 #41
Some can't seem to understand that race-based and class-based oppression are two different things. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #143
some people deny racism exists at all noiretextatique May 2014 #189
No shit. They're unable to see past the end of their own damn nose, as I've said before. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #192
denial is the chief privilege noiretextatique May 2014 #193
White males have lost SOME of their advantages. (Some, not all.) Women and people of color are now Squinch May 2014 #128
Mostly they lost one yardstick to justify social privilege, a much higher paycheck Warpy May 2014 #134
Oh, I'm sure it's a real thing. dawg May 2014 #6
There's also the question of how much power these hypothetical misandrists might have to el_bryanto May 2014 #13
I refer you and Dawg, both ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #42
You are so right on target. nt redqueen May 2014 #51
I realize they think they are ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #55
Why not unbite it and post an OP describing these? spooky3 May 2014 #172
I predict this OP will be filled with examples sufrommich May 2014 #8
without a doubt. niyad May 2014 #10
+2 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #144
there is another thread where this is proved repeatedly noiretextatique May 2014 #188
k and r and watching the usual suspects. niyad May 2014 #11
It's almost to the point now that I'm just embarrassed for them. redqueen May 2014 #16
What is 'obsession' snooper2 May 2014 #12
OK, this guy is officially a badass and handled it... TreasonousBastard May 2014 #21
Habaneros? We call them Yucatan Killers Warpy Jun 2014 #201
Ask msanthrope. randome May 2014 #14
You rang? nt msanthrope May 2014 #31
True misandry is probably fairly rare tkmorris May 2014 #15
Bingo! tea and oranges May 2014 #27
Taking a possibly expanded understanding of misandry dickthegrouch May 2014 #82
What you're describing is misogyny, in a nutshell. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #145
I think this would be a good addition to the forum rules. bloom May 2014 #17
Hmm. davidthegnome May 2014 #30
Banning the popcorn smiley. Phlem May 2014 #50
Who is advocating for banning the popcorn smiley??? nt msanthrope May 2014 #121
Misandry is... excringency May 2014 #18
"...an immense band-aid used by weak minds to cover their butt-hurt." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #146
misandry geek tragedy May 2014 #19
Fail n/t Gore1FL May 2014 #28
cries of 'misandry'=cries of 'reverse racism' geek tragedy May 2014 #29
Toss in "teh gay mafia iz opressing us", typically by fundamentalist bullwinkle428 May 2014 #40
isn't it amazing how it's conservative Christian, heterosexual, white men geek tragedy May 2014 #43
Don't sell yourself short. Gore1FL May 2014 #59
I'm not pretending to be a victim of anyone's purported bias against me. geek tragedy May 2014 #63
Fail n/t Gore1FL May 2014 #79
Fail n/t Gore1FL May 2014 #58
sorry, I don't belong to the ranks of self-pitying men geek tragedy May 2014 #60
Fail n/t Gore1FL May 2014 #78
One-word posts are not very convincing, by and large. And "fail" isn't really an argument. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #148
The person I responded to failed quite a bit in this thread. That's a fact, not an argument. n/t Gore1FL May 2014 #156
Actually, claiming someone has 'failed' in ia debate is an argument geek tragedy May 2014 #164
Fail n/t Gore1FL May 2014 #174
thank you for your standard level of thoughtfulness and intelligent discourse on gender. geek tragedy May 2014 #175
because I said so noiretextatique May 2014 #196
Not an argument, and observation. Gore1FL May 2014 #197
but... noiretextatique May 2014 #198
"However, dictionary definitions often fall short ..." oldhippie May 2014 #20
Thanks for proving redqueen's point, predictably. chervilant May 2014 #34
You're welcome ...... oldhippie May 2014 #133
Color me not surprised... n/t chervilant May 2014 #140
Why the defensiveness? What exactly do you have to lose? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #149
Time. nt oldhippie May 2014 #170
Oh, my. The very heart of the matter. We're going there. Zorra May 2014 #22
Good thing there is none of that on DU RobertEarl May 2014 #23
I'm Ok Wth This ProfessorGAC May 2014 #26
Why ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #46
Just An Opinion ProfessorGAC May 2014 #52
That's just it ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #74
Then You're Picking Nits, Too ProfessorGAC May 2014 #142
If you consider pointing out status quo supportive statements ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #147
It's not just one person redefining a term. redqueen May 2014 #81
I Agreed With The Concept ProfessorGAC May 2014 #141
Because people (not you) often use supposed small objections to subtly chip away at someone's nomorenomore08 May 2014 #150
I guess I'm just not getting what this means: redqueen May 2014 #160
largely a myth. And definitely not a problem. n/t librechik May 2014 #33
Thank You, redqueen tea and oranges May 2014 #35
And there is a reason for that ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #48
I seriously doubt that the vast majority of men trekbiker May 2014 #44
Hmmm ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #54
Very true Major Nikon May 2014 #62
As courts have done throughout history ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #77
I certainly understand that view. And I don't blame anyone (of any gender) who wishes to eschew nomorenomore08 May 2014 #151
I'm not anti-marriage, I'm just anti-marriage licensing Major Nikon May 2014 #157
I get that. And anything involving excessive bureaucracy tends to be a not-so-good thing. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #162
No fault divorce? Really? redqueen May 2014 #61
"Only 15 percent of cases go to court, and, of those, half involve domestic abuse." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #152
My pleasure. redqueen May 2014 #186
LMAO. Help, help, I'm being oppressed by no-fault divorce. geek tragedy May 2014 #65
Holy fucking shit! redqueen May 2014 #68
that's just from the first month's worth of posts. geek tragedy May 2014 #72
Check this beauty out : geek tragedy May 2014 #80
I call them handmaidens of the patriarchy. nt redqueen May 2014 #91
My copy of "The Handmaid's Tale" just arrived in the mail yesterday. Raksha May 2014 #120
Yikes! I guess I always knew there were female misogynists, but that's a new low. Raksha May 2014 #119
"Does it make her feel more important or what?" nomorenomore08 May 2014 #154
I had no idea that no-fault divorce was an issue, but I did a little googling gollygee May 2014 #71
the misogynists are not doing their apologists any favors geek tragedy May 2014 #86
Republicans have a problem with it too. redqueen May 2014 #94
It's an issue of "A woman can leave me and I can't make her suffer for it". JoeyT May 2014 #104
Outside of DU'niverse many men, and women probably could care less. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #87
Damn, that's quite a blog. IronLionZion May 2014 #115
Sounds like a page ripped directly from the "MRA Ten Commandments"! bullwinkle428 May 2014 #161
K & R x 1000 KauaiK May 2014 #47
We're In 90% Agreement cer7711 May 2014 #56
It's the name of my boat Capt. Obvious May 2014 #57
The unmarried Andry daughter, but she prefers to be addressed as Ms. Andry ... 11 Bravo May 2014 #66
coffee, spit......... Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #89
This guy. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #83
Hot Button Time Scott6113 May 2014 #96
MIRT!!!!! geek tragedy May 2014 #99
I can't prove it. Scott6113 May 2014 #111
Ah, and so of course it was believable to you that a woman would sit geek tragedy May 2014 #112
Your Choice Scott6113 May 2014 #131
You said you weren't there, but you're embellishing the details constantly. geek tragedy May 2014 #132
Not embellishing Scott6113 May 2014 #138
here is how I know your story is bullshit. geek tragedy May 2014 #139
I think she did it just enough to turn it red. Scott6113 May 2014 #163
Right... F4lconF16 May 2014 #177
Yes and yes Scott6113 May 2014 #178
funny how you concede that women have it worse than men and then geek tragedy May 2014 #185
I just have to use this. redqueen May 2014 #101
ROFL gollygee May 2014 #102
Oh lord yes. Starry Messenger May 2014 #103
Check yourself Scott6113 May 2014 #123
Ha ha ha ha ha!!! bravenak May 2014 #155
Flowchart. bravenak May 2014 #158
Nother graphic. bravenak May 2014 #159
Make my point, please Scott6113 May 2014 #179
You had a point? bravenak May 2014 #181
No lie, no joke, just showing what people can do Scott6113 May 2014 #182
I am going to tell you something that i hope doesn't offend you. bravenak May 2014 #183
Amen CFLDem May 2014 #105
Does that include PM'ing them gender slurs? Squinch May 2014 #129
"Hot Button" is right trekbiker May 2014 #106
The male perspective is welcome. The misogynists' perspective shouldn't geek tragedy May 2014 #113
Complaining about no-fault divorce would seem to be self-defeating, in his case, wouldn't it? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #166
I'm assuming something quite different about any abuse that would have happened in this chap's geek tragedy May 2014 #167
No way for me to know that. But I wouldn't discount the possibility, to be sure. n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #169
Home of the shrill? chervilant May 2014 #180
"Calling feminists "shrill" is an example of misogyny...) " opiate69 May 2014 #190
Serious answer: the gender expectations are part of patriarchy IronLionZion May 2014 #108
+1 nomorenomore08 May 2014 #168
Thanks IronLionZion May 2014 #171
I'm just another dude with an opinion. But I try to be as understanding and compassionate nomorenomore08 May 2014 #173
Firstly MIRT, we've got a live one intaglio May 2014 #127
K & R and thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, redqueen! Raksha May 2014 #107
Re: banning the popcorn smiley. If there is one thing I would take a strong stand for quinnox May 2014 #122
Finally!! bravenak May 2014 #153
Something to talk about instead of gun control. nt valerief May 2014 #126
They are trying to pretend there is equality treestar May 2014 #130
Misandry does exist Prophet 451 May 2014 #135
kind of explains why some are so desperate to believe privilege doesn't exist! bettyellen May 2014 #137
BTW I do agree Scott6113 May 2014 #165
I wish they would answer the question I keep asking. Jamastiene May 2014 #176
I'll try flashbang May 2014 #184
Very good explanation. Jamastiene May 2014 #191
scarcity mentality...privilege...selfish...narcissism...entitlement noiretextatique May 2014 #195
In addition to the answers above, I'd like to mention access to women's bodies. redqueen May 2014 #199
Is misandry a real phenomenon? Sure The Traveler Jun 2014 #202
Nobody's trying to "make you feel" anything. Stop being so narcissistic. nt redqueen Jun 2014 #203

Response to redqueen (Reply #3)

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
69. Ugh. Again with the stalker bullshit.
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:24 PM
May 2014

Your posts in this thread, and many others since then, tell me all I need to know about you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002894783

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
85. I post links to you defending Warren Farrell here,
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:36 PM
May 2014

and you post links to some offsite nonsense.

Yes, you and the rest of the obsessive stalker club put on quite the show.

Hey, when was the last time that you insisted that "the no means no meme is bullshit "? Here, on DU.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
98. I could give a shit less about Warren Farrell
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:54 PM
May 2014

You were taking his words out of context and I added the context. It's that simple really. If you don't like having your disingenuous comments amended for clarity, then don't make disingenuous comments. Pretty simple stuff really.

If you don't like the data and conclusions that two academic feminists came up with, you should take it up with them. I've noticed you seem to only have a problem with it when I repeat it, and have yet to say one word condemning what they had to say about it, or even so much as acknowledge they studied it at all. Very telling that someone wouldn't even want to discuss their favorite topic studied by no less than two feminists. But to answer your question directly, I reckon it was around the same time your TERF buddies were having the TERF pow-wow over at duckies to hate on the transgender because you guys couldn't do it here anymore after they got the boot. If you think I'm afraid of my comments, you're quite wrong. I have them in my journal for everyone who wants to can review quite easily. Unlike you I stand behind what I say rather than running away from it and pretending it never happened, as if anyone is really going to believe you.

Just sayin'

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
109. As do yours
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:29 PM
May 2014

I wasn't the one who brought up Warren Farrell in the first place. You seem to rant about him obsessively and if I dare make one comment correcting your obvious misrepresentations, you have a cow and stalk me endlessly about it for years accusing me of "defending" just because I make a bullshit call. Then you interject said misrepresentations in situations which have absolutely not one iota of relevance all the while actually having the gal to act as if I'm the one stalking you.

And what exactly do every single one of your accusations about Farrell (or me for that matter) amount to? Turns out, pretty much a bucket of warm spit. Anyone who cares to set their wiki to Farrell will find absolutely none of the allegations you've made about him, and it's not as if others who are better than you haven't tried to put them there. You can view the wiki history page and see that once one iota of reason and accountability are injected, those accusations fall like the house of cards they always were. In fact, no-shit real anti-feminists like Phyllis Schlafly are critical of Farrell which can also be found right on the wiki page.

I do agree with you completely here. Mine and your posts do speak for themselves, and anyone who cares to look can find out that really the best you have is misrepresenting other people's viewpoint for what can only be imagined as some game to score rhetorical points. And when your actual comments are laid out in context, without misrepresentation, you just pretend they never happened rather than apologizing to those you've hurt.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
5. As a man, I have to say that is completely untrue.
Wed May 28, 2014, 12:35 PM
May 2014

There are some (a handful) of members here that I would say are reflexively manhating. Redqueen is definitely not one of them, not at all.

K&R for a good discussion topic.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
37. See this passage of the OP ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:30 PM
May 2014
As sociologist Allan Johnson notes, "misandry" has no place in a male-identified, male-centered world. Moreover, Johnson states: “And it takes almost no criticism at all in order for men to feel "bashed," like it's "open season on men." In fact, just saying "male privilege" or "patriarchy" can start eyes rolling and evoke that exasperated sense of "Here we go again.” (Allan Johnson, “Privilege, power and difference,” p. 197)

"Accusations of male bashing and man hating work to discredit feminism because people often confuse men as individuals with men as a dominant and privileged category of people. Given the reality of women's oppression, male privilege, and some men's enforcement of both, it's hardly surprising that EVERY woman should have moments when she resents or even "hates" men.” (Allan Johnson, "The gender knot," p. 107)


Even when a poster's display, is followed by the obligatory, "Whatttt? I was just kidding!"

Warpy

(111,286 posts)
32. Are you kidding?
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:27 PM
May 2014

Insight makes people realize that trying to shut women down is a bad thing. Some men lack it completely. All they know is that some woman has voiced an opinion and no woman is entitled to have one of those.

And no, they are never aware.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
45. thanks for proving that accusations of misandry are really not honest
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:45 PM
May 2014

and are meant to score points against feminists and feminism, not to point to a real problem facing men.

Of course, you can prove that your pathetic little accusation was meant honestly by producing comments from that poster demonstrating hatred of men as a group.

Response to redqueen (Reply #64)

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
75. Did it not dawn on you that feminists who are opposed to the normalization of misogynist slurs
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:28 PM
May 2014

just might not appreciate men sending PMs saying how it's cool with them that misogynist slurs are socially acceptable?

Really?

Cause I think you are actually very aware of that being a near certainty.

Response to redqueen (Reply #75)

Response to redqueen (Reply #88)

Response to geek tragedy (Reply #92)

Response to CFLDem (Reply #118)

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
136. It is creepy as hell.
Wed May 28, 2014, 06:02 PM
May 2014

Some time away might be good for your perspective. I doubt it, but crazier things have happened.



noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
194. BTW, sending PMs to adversaries is a tactic of intimidation...does not work with me
Thu May 29, 2014, 03:00 PM
May 2014

Also can be construed as harassment. You probably should stop trying to contact posters in this thread privately. Nice job, though. You and a few others have perfectly demonstrated exactly what the OP is about

niyad

(113,433 posts)
9. it is the same sort of mindset that allows xians to whine about how oppressed and
Wed May 28, 2014, 12:39 PM
May 2014

persecuted THEY are.

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
110. Good analogy!
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:33 PM
May 2014

As a Jew who likes to frequent interfaith discussion boards I hear plenty of the "persecuted Christian" bullshit. It gets more barf-inducing with each repetition.

Warpy

(111,286 posts)
36. Well, yes and no.
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:30 PM
May 2014

White males as a group have been oppressed over the last 40 years by having their manufacturing and farming jobs disappear and their wages severely depressed. The only reason women are now earning 77% of what men do instead of 59% is because men have lost so much purchasing power over the last 40 years of wage depression.

White males are definitely being oppressed but it's not by women. It's by other white males.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
39. A swing and a miss ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:37 PM
May 2014

White males as a group are NOT oppressed, as the class necessarily includes those "other white males."

A more accurate, but still off base, statement would be, "Working class people, including working class white males, have been oppressed over the last 400+ years."

Warpy

(111,286 posts)
76. Partially correct
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:28 PM
May 2014

but wage depression has disproportionately hit white males. Other groups didn't have that far to fall and have taken less of a cut as a percentage of earnings before liberals went out of power.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
143. Some can't seem to understand that race-based and class-based oppression are two different things.
Wed May 28, 2014, 08:47 PM
May 2014

Must be that extreme binary thinking I'm always complaining about.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
189. some people deny racism exists at all
Thu May 29, 2014, 12:23 PM
May 2014

And claim it is all about class. Hint: these folk are not people of color.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
193. denial is the chief privilege
Thu May 29, 2014, 02:54 PM
May 2014

Of privilege. I remember when Bill Cosby made his stupid remarks about (some) black people. Some people actually lectured ME about going to school and getting a job and stop blaming the white man, etc. it happened right here on DU. Alert, you say? HA! Didn't do much good. I got them to shut by posting my credentials: BA and MA, both from private colleges, and asking for their. CRICKETS!

Squinch

(50,957 posts)
128. White males have lost SOME of their advantages. (Some, not all.) Women and people of color are now
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:50 PM
May 2014

"allowed" to compete with them in the workplace.

What white men see as oppression occurring over the last 40 years is simply a condition in which the advantages they hold over other groups are somewhat fewer. They still have those advantages, but they are fewer.

That's not called oppression. That's called holding a deck that is stacked slightly less in your favor.

Warpy

(111,286 posts)
134. Mostly they lost one yardstick to justify social privilege, a much higher paycheck
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:43 PM
May 2014

that was nearly double what everybody else was paid. They're still trying to cling grimly to the social privilege, but it's going fast.

dawg

(10,624 posts)
6. Oh, I'm sure it's a real thing.
Wed May 28, 2014, 12:37 PM
May 2014

There are probably some bitter women out there who hate all men and are prejudiced against them.

But it's still one of those man-bites-dog things that rarely ever happens. Certainly, it's nowhere near the misogyny prevalent in our society today.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
13. There's also the question of how much power these hypothetical misandrists might have to
Wed May 28, 2014, 12:42 PM
May 2014

create problems. Many misogynists or male chauvanists are in a position to impose their positions on other and do a far amount of harm, and that's before you get the unthinking assumption of many white males that they way they like things is the way things ought to be.

Where as misandrists or female chauvanists have relatively little power in society - almost no power really.

Bryant

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
42. I refer you and Dawg, both ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:40 PM
May 2014

to this passage of the OP:

"Accusations of male bashing and man hating work to discredit feminism because people often confuse men as individuals with men as a dominant and privileged category of people.


As it is relevant to both of your comments.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
55. I realize they think they are ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:58 PM
May 2014

saying the same thing, as those they are siding with, but they are missing a huge point.

BTW ... I am so biting my tongue on this topic, as there are so many comparisons to the white privilege threads.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
188. there is another thread where this is proved repeatedly
Thu May 29, 2014, 12:18 PM
May 2014

And one particularly clueless poster who hijacked the thread.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
21. OK, this guy is officially a badass and handled it...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:07 PM
May 2014

a lot better than I did when I chewed on a habanero.

I ended up on the floor without having to be kicked in the balls.

Warpy

(111,286 posts)
201. Habaneros? We call them Yucatan Killers
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 01:23 AM
Jun 2014

A tiny slice will make a whole pot of chili too hot for people who aren't used to chile peppers. Two slices make it almost hot enough for me. Three slices are about right.

Then I'm stuck with half a habanero and no place to use it.

I usually use jalapenos for taste and serranos for heat. I'll leave the habaneros to the show offs.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
14. Ask msanthrope.
Wed May 28, 2014, 12:44 PM
May 2014

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

tkmorris

(11,138 posts)
15. True misandry is probably fairly rare
Wed May 28, 2014, 12:44 PM
May 2014

Funny thing though, I happen to think true misogyny is rarer than a lot of people think. I think what most often is labeled misogyny is usually rather a profound lack of respect shown by some men towards women. They seem incapable of considering them as equals.

tea and oranges

(396 posts)
27. Bingo!
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:19 PM
May 2014

Seems like textbook def of misogyny to me:

...a profound lack of respect shown by some men towards women. They seem incapable of considering them as equals.

dickthegrouch

(3,176 posts)
82. Taking a possibly expanded understanding of misandry
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:34 PM
May 2014

It becomes clear that the very existence of (mostly male) armed forces is an all-too common (and forgotten) form of misandry, mostly perpetrated by men.

I know I am ignoring that women have increasingly become part of the armed forces over the last 50 years.

Men have classically started wars, funded wars, created armies, trained them to peaks of fitness (and attractiveness), and then sent them to die horribly. What could be more man-hating than that?



nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
145. What you're describing is misogyny, in a nutshell.
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:00 PM
May 2014

I think some make the mistake of leaning too hard on the literal dictionary definition.

Think of homophobes saying "What homophobia? I'm not afraid of teh gheys!"

Please note that I'm not calling you (or anyone else) a bigot here. Just trying to draw an analogy.

bloom

(11,635 posts)
17. I think this would be a good addition to the forum rules.
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:00 PM
May 2014

It is a concept that should be understood by anyone who considers themselves to be progressive.

If you don't understand it, you should make an effort to change that.

People should understand that we are all part of a culture that favors men throughout our education and in the media. If you merely take what you learned/learn for granted, then you will not have a very comprehensive viewpoint of the world. (That can, of course, apply to women, as well).

For instance, the way (at least back in my youth) women were excluded from history, by and large - with a couple exceptions such as Florence Nightengale. I am still adding to my knowledge of amazing women and I feel like I was robbed of a reasonable vision of my gender.

Notice how the day that women received the right to vote is not celebrated, just the day that white men demanded that right.

Consider movies - so many with the token woman. Women as arm candy and rewards, not as people. I hardly watch mainstream movies anymore - fortunately, there are independent movies and foreign movies that have more of a clue about this. Then, of course there is the world of advertisements. And all of the patriarchal religions.

If you continue to be a clueless man, spend some time imagining you are a woman, perhaps try to write from the viewpoint of a woman. You will be a better person for it. Read Ms. mag online, and other resources that are from the point of view of feminist women.

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)
30. Hmm.
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:24 PM
May 2014

What exactly are you proposing should be added to the forum rules? That there be no complaints of misandry? That it is essentially a thing which does not exist? I'm just a clueless man - help me out here.

Phlem

(6,323 posts)
50. Banning the popcorn smiley.
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:51 PM
May 2014

But I see here it legally exists when typed out.

Yes, I'm being serious.

Could be construed as disrespect. I use it as a "I can't wait to see the posts" but I can see how it could be misconstrued as disrespect.

-p

excringency

(105 posts)
18. Misandry is...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:02 PM
May 2014

... A.) a rationalization that attempts to justify, vindicate, and evade one's responsibility as a cog in the dominant patriarchy, B.) an alibi to mitigates one's failings, C.) an immense band-aid used by weak minds to cover their butt-hurt.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
146. "...an immense band-aid used by weak minds to cover their butt-hurt."
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:03 PM
May 2014

You have a way with words, I must say. And I love your sigline too.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
29. cries of 'misandry'=cries of 'reverse racism'
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:23 PM
May 2014

large degree of overlap between the complainers of both ephemeral 'problems'

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
43. isn't it amazing how it's conservative Christian, heterosexual, white men
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:42 PM
May 2014

who manage to nail themselves to the cross of self-proclaimed victimhood with the greatest of ease?

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
59. Don't sell yourself short.
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:02 PM
May 2014

you are at least as good at it as conservative Christian, heterosexual, white men.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
63. I'm not pretending to be a victim of anyone's purported bias against me.
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:04 PM
May 2014

I'm not whining about reverse racism, or misandry, or having my religious freedom oppressed by gay marriage.

That's something only you and yours do.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
60. sorry, I don't belong to the ranks of self-pitying men
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:03 PM
May 2014

who pretend to be victims of misandry much like Megyn Kelly and Fox News tried to pretend that white people were the victims of the New Black Panther Party.

So, it's a success for me.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
164. Actually, claiming someone has 'failed' in ia debate is an argument
Wed May 28, 2014, 10:02 PM
May 2014

since it's based on a subjective evaluation and opinion rather than empirically-demonstrable fact, unlike say the failure of floor joists or beams in a structure.

You have provided no criteria by which to ascertain how one is supposed to succeed and fail in this discussion.

If the metric is whether one has failed or succeeded in agreeing with you and your crowd, well then failure is the goal of every enlightened person here on the subject of gender.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
175. thank you for your standard level of thoughtfulness and intelligent discourse on gender.
Wed May 28, 2014, 11:09 PM
May 2014

go ahead and type fail again, or maybe just say it to yourself as you're the only one who believes it.

toodles.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
34. Thanks for proving redqueen's point, predictably.
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:28 PM
May 2014

Please, watch "The Bro Code." Try to understand white male privilege, without getting defensive as though you are being personally attacked.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
149. Why the defensiveness? What exactly do you have to lose?
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:05 PM
May 2014

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm asking you in all honesty, as a fellow man.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
22. Oh, my. The very heart of the matter. We're going there.
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:11 PM
May 2014

"The slightest deviation from male and white centeredness is perceived as a profound loss of privilege. This is why with each tiny step that women and minorities take toward equality, the outcry of white and male supremacists about how "oppressed" white men are has been getting louder.

The conservative backlash is in overdrive to protect their illegitimate, unethical, hierarchal system."



Bravo, redqueen.



 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
23. Good thing there is none of that on DU
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:15 PM
May 2014

Men here are highly respected.

There is no misandry here.

In fact DU is just full of love for each other; as we struggle against the machine.

ProfessorGAC

(65,082 posts)
26. I'm Ok Wth This
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:18 PM
May 2014

The only nit i have to pick is:
I don't care for people deciding for others what a definition is when there's already a definition.

The sentiment is hard to argue, and to me it's just a word. I've never experienced it, but i'm sure there are people who hate men for just being men.

No skin off my back though. I seriously doubt it will ever affect me like the opposite word being debated here for a couple weeks affects its target.
GAC

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
46. Why ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:48 PM
May 2014
The only nit i have to pick is:
I don't care for people deciding for others what a definition is when there's already a definition.


As a "Professor" (in an academic area, I presume), are you resistant to the evolution of terms, that comes with a better understanding of the subject matter, in your field of study?

ProfessorGAC

(65,082 posts)
52. Just An Opinion
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:52 PM
May 2014

I said i agree with the sentiment. And, if you see this as an evolutionary affect, ok. I see it as one person redefining the term.

I also said it was just a nit.

And yes and no; for years i taught organic chemistry. I don't anymore. The screenname is an artifcact of the early days of the internet where we all got email addresses at the school and it was ProfessorXXX@ etc. The XXX's were people's initials.

You sure you actually read what i wrote? You jump on the nit and miss the fact that my post title says i'm ok with it.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
74. That's just it ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:28 PM
May 2014

It's NOT just one person redefining the term ... the redefinition is the state of the study.

Yes ... I read your entire post and I apologize if I offended, it's just I see so many using the "Redefining of the term" argument (whether as a "nit" or an active objection) that I have to speak up and correct the inaccuracy.

It is this uncorrected inaccuracy, that allows the argument to persist as legitimate, whether you, personally, are okay with the term or not.

ProfessorGAC

(65,082 posts)
142. Then You're Picking Nits, Too
Wed May 28, 2014, 08:25 PM
May 2014

What's the difference?

Oh, i already know the answer, but it's not one you'd admit to.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
147. If you consider pointing out status quo supportive statements ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:04 PM
May 2014

in a thread attempting to expose the need to change the status quo, "picking a nit", then yes ... the nit be picked.

Oh, i already know the answer, but it's not one you'd admit to.


Please share then.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
81. It's not just one person redefining a term.
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:32 PM
May 2014

I did provide two sources. I could find dozens more.

Sociology is a well developed field of study and this concept isn't new.

ProfessorGAC

(65,082 posts)
141. I Agreed With The Concept
Wed May 28, 2014, 08:24 PM
May 2014

Are you so wrapped up in your position that you can't stand minor scrutiny? My post was titled "I'm Ok With This"
Why is that so hard to get?
I just don't agree with the defintion of the term in favorable terms to the person making the defintion. I disagree with that tactic when conservatives do it too. I've been saying that here for years.
At least i'm being consistent.
And, all that being said, again i'm agreeing with the sentiment. Misandry is NEVER going to affect me, so it's just a word to me. It has no meaning to my life and it never has, so i'm ok with the idea that it's not really the oppostite of misogyny. I get that.
I'm agreeing with you and your picking on the nit i picked. When did agreement in concept stop being an alliance?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
150. Because people (not you) often use supposed small objections to subtly chip away at someone's
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:11 PM
May 2014

argument. "I agree with you, but..." is frequently an underhanded way of undermining a given idea.

But I agree that you yourself don't deserve to be tarred with that brush.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
160. I guess I'm just not getting what this means:
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:42 PM
May 2014
I just don't agree with the defintion of the term in favorable terms to the person making the defintion.




The only part of your post that I had any issue with was this:

I see it as one person redefining the term.


I guess my attempt to clarify that is somehow a big enough problem for you to get upset about.

tea and oranges

(396 posts)
35. Thank You, redqueen
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:29 PM
May 2014

The perception of victimhood by privileged classes is more than tiresome. It seems the more privilege they have, the louder they yell about their persecution.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
48. And there is a reason for that ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:50 PM
May 2014

the larger the privilege, the larger the perceived loss, when/if equality is ever realized.

 

trekbiker

(768 posts)
44. I seriously doubt that the vast majority of men
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:42 PM
May 2014

know or even care what the word "mysandry" means. We generally dont even think about it.

what do a LOT of men care about?

the fucked up family court system
no fault divorce
lifetime alimony

I personally know many men that will not be able to retire because of these things. They will work till they drop. They are slaves to the system.

http://judgybitch.com/2013/09/17/what-would-happen-if-no-men-showed-up-for-work-today/

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
54. Hmmm ...
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:53 PM
May 2014


I suspect that this will not go well; but, why is "no fault divorce" a matter of concern?

If she/he don't want you no more ... she/he don't want you no more.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
62. Very true
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:03 PM
May 2014

However, given that reality, and the flip-side of it, why even have marriage contracts in the first place?

All it seems to do is present the opportunity for the government to deny that contract, often on an arbitrary and capricious basis, and enrich lawyers when it comes time for dissolution. The whole idea seems to have outlived its usefulness and if they didn't exist today, I doubt anyone would invent them.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
151. I certainly understand that view. And I don't blame anyone (of any gender) who wishes to eschew
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:17 PM
May 2014

marriage. Sure, I might get married myself someday, if I meet the right woman. But regardless, I see where you're coming from.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
162. I get that. And anything involving excessive bureaucracy tends to be a not-so-good thing.
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:55 PM
May 2014

Which is not a libertarian or "small government" argument, but simply an argument against over-complication, and waste of time and resources, if that makes sense.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
61. No fault divorce? Really?
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:03 PM
May 2014

Really?

As for family court, this is my go-to reference

For instance, divorcing parents are usually able to work out custody agreements on their own. Only 15 percent of cases go to court, and, of those, half involve domestic abuse. Tragically, even in those instances, mothers don’t always have the upper hand. A common family-court defense of fathers whose children testify that they are abusive is something called “Parental Alienation Syndrome,” “a medically unrecognized diagnosis that suggests mothers have poisoned their children into making false accusations against their fathers.” Joyce tells the story of Genia Shockome, a woman who spent 30 days in jail and whose husband was awarded full custody of their children, despite the fact that his abuse had left her with post-traumatic stress disorder. Incredibly, Shockome’s story doesn’t end there: After criticizing the judge’s decision in print, her attorney was slapped with a five-year suspension.

http://www.salon.com/2009/11/05/mens_rights/


There is SO MUCH more out there detailing why this issue is not exactly the way it has been presented by MRAs.

Alimony goes both ways.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
152. "Only 15 percent of cases go to court, and, of those, half involve domestic abuse."
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:18 PM
May 2014

Thank you for that. Helps put things in perspective.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
186. My pleasure.
Thu May 29, 2014, 11:50 AM
May 2014

It is critical that we depend on facts and not stories from people about how unfair things were forty years ago in family courts.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
65. LMAO. Help, help, I'm being oppressed by no-fault divorce.
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:10 PM
May 2014

The misogynists and rightwingers are decloaking left and right on this one.

P.S. judgybitch.com is a woman-hating misogynist hate site, thanks for outing yourself

Here's a sample:

The number one reason you should not bully or harangue your husband about housework is that it is EMASCULATING. Are you a feminist? You might as well stop reading right now then, since emasculating men is the whole point of feminism. You gals WANT a kitchen bitch, and good luck with that. But for women who are interested in a happy, loving relationship with a man who acts like a man, there is nothing more emasculating that being ordered by your wife to scrub the bathtub.


more:

Ladies, there is a difference between flirting and cockteasing. One makes you fun and sassy, the other makes you a cunt, so stop doing it!

.......

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
68. Holy fucking shit!
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:21 PM
May 2014

I bristled at the URL for that site, but with so many feminists 'reclaiming' the word I figured he was throwing one of those at me.

Fuh king hell

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
72. that's just from the first month's worth of posts.
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:26 PM
May 2014

the author of that blog is proof that there are female misogynists

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
80. Check this beauty out :
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:32 PM
May 2014
http://judgybitch.com/2012/12/31/new-years-resolutions-from-judgy-bitch-for-everyone-else-of-course-im-damn-near-perfect-what-do-i-need-resolutions-for/

Stop being so goddam fat. Seriously, just stop it. It’s gross and ugly and it’s making you very, very unhappy and it’s a choice. The choice isn’t so much about what you put in your mouth, it’s about what and whom you care about, and how well you understand your own drive and your own desires.

...

Learn how to cook Seriously, it’s not that hard. Get a cookbook and get at ‘er. A key part of controlling your own weight will be to cook your own food. Ladies, there is nothing, and I mean nothing that will convey love and care quite like a good meal. There is no excuse for the “tee-hee aren’t I a useless twat in the kitchen” cultural trope that women think men find adorable.

...

Don’t get a divorce. Unless you don’t have kids, in which case do whatever the fuck you want. But if you have children, divorce should be off the table except in cases of severe and extreme abuse. Divorce will not make you happy, and it will destroy your children. You will teach them that there are NO obligations, NO responsibilities and NO moral lines that should not be crossed. You will fail in your most basic responsibility as a parent if you destroy your children’s family. Whatever the issue is that you are facing, find some way to deal with it that doesn’t include divorce. A sexless marriage? That is what prostitutes are for. He doesn’t pay attention to you? Surround yourself with friends who DO. He doesn’t share your interests? Find some friends who DO. He doesn’t help out enough around the house? Hire someone or lower your standards. There is always a way. All predicated on the assumption that you will act like a fucking grown-up and not get in fights or altercations with your spouse in front of your children, or at any time, really.

...

Single ladies, stop being sluts! Married ladies, please carry on! Very few men like sluts. If you’re the sort of lady who doesn’t give a shit what men think or what they like, then please carry on, this doesn’t apply to you. I’m speaking to women who DO like men, who WANT to have a man who loves them and lives for them, forever. Ladies, you have been lied to. Being a slut, sampling a lot of dicks with no commitment and no affection, and letting men use you is NOT empowering. It does not give you power. It reduces your power in the sexual marketplace, which already skewed heavily in favor of men, thanks to slut culture. If you are serious about finding a partner and a husband and a best friend who will walk through life with you, then you need to learn how to compete with sluts. Here’s how:

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
120. My copy of "The Handmaid's Tale" just arrived in the mail yesterday.
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:17 PM
May 2014

The timing couldn't be better, although I had no way of knowing that when I ordered it.

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
119. Yikes! I guess I always knew there were female misogynists, but that's a new low.
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:14 PM
May 2014

What does a woman get out of running down other women like that? Does it make her feel more important or what?

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
154. "Does it make her feel more important or what?"
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:22 PM
May 2014

Within certain circles, yes, it does. These women are the Clarence Thomases of the MRA "movement."

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
71. I had no idea that no-fault divorce was an issue, but I did a little googling
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:25 PM
May 2014

including "misandry" and what site came up?

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/family-courts/defending-marriage/

Yes, at A Voice For Men, it appears opposing no-fault divorce is a big issue.

This is a new one for me. I'm trying to think if my MRA brother ever mentioned no-fault divorce to me but I'll have to casually mention it when I can and see what happens.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
86. the misogynists are not doing their apologists any favors
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:36 PM
May 2014

by being so brazen about outing themselves.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
104. It's an issue of "A woman can leave me and I can't make her suffer for it".
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:14 PM
May 2014

Apparently removing that "right" means you hate men.

cer7711

(502 posts)
56. We're In 90% Agreement
Wed May 28, 2014, 01:59 PM
May 2014

However, to simply hand-wave away all anti-men comments/workplace behavior/double standards as "mythical" violates my sense of reality, semantic logic and life-lived experience.

But don't listen to me; I'm a man. A self-identifying feminist white male. (GASP!)

Here what Dr. Peggy Drexler has to say on the subject:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peggy-drexler/who-says-women-arent-sexi_b_3331315.html

Scott6113

(56 posts)
96. Hot Button Time
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:49 PM
May 2014

As a male survivor of an abusive marriage, I need to say that there is nothing more isolating that the invalidation of the suffering I experienced just because it doesn't fit gender role expectations. In fact, there are women who use the expectation that they are often the abused to their advantage.

I know of one man who was jailed because his wife calmly held her hand over a lit gas stove, burning her hand, called the cops and said her husband held it over the stove. His story was summarily rejected. She knew what she was doing. She was a borderline.

I'll never excuse prejudice, bigotry or hatred of any group just because they aren't generally perceived as victims. They can be victimized more easily because people don't expect it.

Let us not judge anyone due to the color of their skin, but the content of their character, to paraphrase MLK. Let us likewise not judge due to the kind of reproductive equipment a person happens to have.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
99. MIRT!!!!!
Wed May 28, 2014, 02:54 PM
May 2014
I know of one man who was jailed because his wife calmly held her hand over a lit gas stove, burning her hand, called the cops and said her husband held it over the stove. His story was summarily rejected. She knew what she was doing. She was a borderline.


I'll take "urban myths popular amongst seething misogynist trolls for $800 Alex!"

Scott6113

(56 posts)
111. I can't prove it.
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:35 PM
May 2014

Because it was disclosed to me in confidence. But, do you really think the female gender is incapable of evil? I mean Mata Hari? Tokyo Rose? Susan Smith? Aileen Wuornos?

You can say that their numbers dwarf the number of depraved males, but that's a corollary to my point. When we attribute characteristics to groups, it can get used to the advantage of the diabolical. If women are generally perceived as gentle, nurturing, and good, it provides cover to those who aren't. I mean, Father Geoghan would never have done half what he did if he were not a priest. He would have been caught much earlier. Just that, in the 60s, we actually revered priests.

If you think my story is a myth, try and prove it. No more likely than the opposite. I trust my confidante. You don't have to. But to not admit the possibility is willful blindness.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
112. Ah, and so of course it was believable to you that a woman would sit
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:39 PM
May 2014

there and hold her hand over an open flame while chewing gum and reading the morning paper.

Your story is not credible.

Scott6113

(56 posts)
131. Your Choice
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:00 PM
May 2014

If you've never known anyone who was perfectly willing to damage him/herself simply to get revenge, to make you look like the culprit you're lucky. I have not been so lucky.

The woman was perfectly calm. She was even smiling. To her it was a show of strength, of victory.

Again, you're lucky.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
132. You said you weren't there, but you're embellishing the details constantly.
Wed May 28, 2014, 05:05 PM
May 2014

Your story is bullshit, a fable, a myth, a lie.

Perfectly calm while the flesh in her hand was being roasted like a piece of meat on a BBQ grill?

Sounds like you were there, which makes one wonder what your role really was.

Get out of here with that shit. No, just get out of here.

'Men' like you who go around trying to portray domestic violence victims as a bunch of fakers make me sick to my stomach.

Repulsive.

Scott6113

(56 posts)
138. Not embellishing
Wed May 28, 2014, 06:45 PM
May 2014

Just bringing out details.
Where is your hostility coming from?
First you say it never happened, they you wonder if I was there. Which is it?
Of course people with mental problems act out in dysfunctional ways.
Mental illness crosses every kind of group, every kind of person.
I never said that domestic violence victims are fakers. Perhaps this point is too subtle for you.
Let me try again.
Conventional wisdom has it that wives are more often physically harmed than husbands. Certainly the reported statistics support that. I suspect that it is actually true. Upper body strength is a gender difference. I know that women can train and be much stronger than the average man. I'm just talking averages here. Women in my experience are more articulate, and men act out more often, though that too is a generalization.
And what do the social service and police functions proceed on? They perceive a situation according to their experience.
That leaves room for someone to work the police's prejudices to their favor, if they are diabolical.

It does stretch the mind to imagine a scenario that does not fit stereotypes. If you don't want your mind stretched, I understand. Few do.

I remember a radio interview about domestic violence with a state director of social services. She said it goes in every direction: grown daughter against mother, elder abuse, she has seen it all. If you think wife beating is the only thing going on, I would like to disillusion you.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
139. here is how I know your story is bullshit.
Wed May 28, 2014, 06:53 PM
May 2014

if your finger touches hot water, your spinal cord reflexes will zip the hand away before your brain will process it.

if one barbecues their hand over an open flame like a sirloin steak, it would take extreme concentration and complete discipline to hold the hand there while the flesh sizzled, the subcutaneous fat melted, and the smell filled the room.

the idea that a woman would sit there with her hand over the flame, smiling, calm, to be able to claim a false act of domestic violence, is horseshit.

If that is what it takes to convince police that there has been an act of domestic violence, then the system is stacked against women

Scott6113

(56 posts)
163. I think she did it just enough to turn it red.
Wed May 28, 2014, 10:01 PM
May 2014

Not 3rd degree burns. Yes, she'd have to fight reflexes. I suspect the smile was more of a grimace, but that's what he said. Smile. Human beings are quite amazing. Think of the fakirs who lie on beds of nails, or the people who fire walk.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
177. Right...
Thu May 29, 2014, 03:42 AM
May 2014

The fakirs who rely on basic physics. Force downwards on a single nail drives it through the skin. Force downwards on a thousand nails makes the pressure 1/1000th less on each nail. There's videos of people on a board of nails with another on top getting sledgehammered. Look it up. As for firewalkers, they move quickly enough that their skin doesn't burn. The coals are also specially prepared so they don't burn their feet. It's not magic.

I think my point is this: your story is full of holes. Your level of knowledge about this supposed incident is constantly changing, and complete crap as far as the burn goes. Maybe I'm wrong. Prove it to me and I'll apologize.

For now, I'm going to assume you're one of the typical people who distract and deflect from the real problems at hand. Yes, there are men abused in our legal system, and yes, there are men being harmed elsewhere. But there are things far worse and with simply staggering frequency happening to women, everywhere. There are massive cultural and other blocks women have to overcome. To come and try to deflect from that, to try and tell women that their systematic suffering is somehow equivalent to that of relatively few men?

I'm calling bullshit.

With perserverance and lot of work, we'll be able to fix a lot of society's gender problems. But people like you deflect and minimize. They block progress. They hurt people, if indirectly. And I can't stand it.

Scott6113

(56 posts)
178. Yes and yes
Thu May 29, 2014, 06:56 AM
May 2014

We disagree less than you might think. The big picture shows that women have it worse than men. I wasn't trying to say otherwise. I was trying to say that when we look at generalities, particulars get lost. Acting as though outliers do not exist creates injustice.

I remember in the 70s there was a billboard up near Fenway Park in Boston. It showed a glowering Ayatollah Khomeini with the caption: Fight Back: Drive 55. And I thought, ah, so we have been given permission to hate the Arab, the Muslim. It was no longer politically correct to tell n-word jokes, Pollack jokes, etc., but a certain kind of person always needs a scapegoat, an other, a stranger, someone different to blame.

That's what's wrong. And there are lots of women who make nasty comments about men as a group. They're angry, they defame, they denigrate. Defamation leads to dehumanization, then real harm. I've met female divorce lawyers who had a bad relationship, and for the rest of their lives were hell-bent on making all men pay. It is not OK. Somehow they think feminism gives them the right to think of men the way blacks were considered 75 years ago. Are they the majority? No.

No it is not equivalent to what women have suffered. Two wrongs don't make a right, however. There is a better way, a higher way. If women displace men in social position, and treat men as they were treated, where is the progress in that?

Wouldn't it be better to correct sexism and all that goes with it like lesser pay without the old winner-loser paradigm?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
185. funny how you concede that women have it worse than men and then
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:49 AM
May 2014

proceed, once that's out of the way, to write several paragraphs about how women are hateful persecutrices of men.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
102. ROFL
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:09 PM
May 2014

I might have to put that in another thread I just saw. Or save it for the next time MLK's message is deliberately misinterpreted and misused to excuse racism.

Scott6113

(56 posts)
123. Check yourself
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:26 PM
May 2014

Would you think it as funny if the woman had a chair thrown at her so hard it knocked her over for making an obnoxious comment? If not why not? Is violence against men funny? Is violence against anyone funny?

You can find your own bias by a simple gender swap.

Scott6113

(56 posts)
179. Make my point, please
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:03 AM
May 2014

You really are making my point. It is not OK to take anyone who merely questions some aspects of feminism and consider violence against them funny, ridicule them, and call them equivalent to Rush Limbaugh, the most sexist person around.

Does bona fide misandry exist? Yes. Is the term misused so the privileged can cry victim, yes. Is it as big a problem as sexism? Far from it. Should we railroad over small problems to fix big ones? Doesn't seem optimal.

Above all, it is not OK to hate.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
181. You had a point?
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:24 AM
May 2014

I thought this was just a game you were playing. After the weird lie about a woman holding her hand over a flame calmly while she burned just to get back at a man for 'something', i knew you could not be serious. I mean, really? I have been burned by a water heater on my back and i jumped five feet and screamed bloody murder, that was before i passed out from shock. So, if you want to have a bit of fun, i figured i'd play along for a second.

Are you ready to admit you made that story up or that the person who told you that was lying?
Or at least admit it was a joke?

Scott6113

(56 posts)
182. No lie, no joke, just showing what people can do
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:23 AM
May 2014

Like I said. I know it to be true but can't offer proof, so you can think what you want. Of course if you are surprised by pain reflexes take over. There's a devout Christian Scientist woman who does office work for a Dentist I had before he went on disability. When she needs a filling she refuses novocaine. She says she can control her mind and does not feel the pain, so she claims. I'm skeptical, but I do believe the Dentist that she gets work done without novocaine.

The point of the story is that if you only work with generalities, there are always situations that don't fit.

Putin in Abhazia had his own people killed in a way that he could blame the insurgents as a pretext for invasion. That's the way evil thinks.

Divorce Courts almost always award custody to the mother. There are some women who are unfit to be mothers. The fathers sometimes stay in awful marriages to protect the children, for fear they cannot prove the abuse in divorce court, and divorce will mean the children stay with the abuser without protection. Maybe they could prove it, but it is an uphill battle at best, and they're not willing to take the chance. They're in a special kind of hell. That's how operating on prejudice leads to injustice.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
183. I am going to tell you something that i hope doesn't offend you.
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:28 AM
May 2014

These are talking points used by misogynistic groups. If you need proof i will pm you links to research. I do not respond to these types of talking points because they are used for foul purposes like demonizing women and denying misogyny. That is why you are getting a negative reaction, we have heard different versions of the same story and yours has extraordinary claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Or at least quite a bit of proof, not just an extraordinary anecdote.
Your story does not make physical sense or logical sense.

 

trekbiker

(768 posts)
106. "Hot Button" is right
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:23 PM
May 2014

This is DU, home of the shrill. Dont expect any sympathy for the male perspective here.

I barely escaped a similar situation with a borderline woman. Luckily the damage was minimal even though the stress was incredible. It was a real eye opener. I still to this day cant talk about it with my sister or mother, they have no understanding at all and still believe that womans bullshit. Time is a healer thank god.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
113. The male perspective is welcome. The misogynists' perspective shouldn't
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:42 PM
May 2014

be,

Given your description of this place as "home of the shrill" and your citation of woman-hating websites to back up your material, I have to say that it still means your perpsective is still not welcome here.

Also, if you "barely escaped a similar situation witha borderline woman" why were you whining about no-fault divorce in another thread (something only rightwing knuckledraggers and seething old school misogynists complain about):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5012928

what do a LOT of men care about?

the fucked up family court system
no fault divorce
lifetime alimony

I personally know many men that will not be able to retire because of these things. They will work till they drop. They are slaves to the system.



nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
166. Complaining about no-fault divorce would seem to be self-defeating, in his case, wouldn't it?
Wed May 28, 2014, 10:08 PM
May 2014

Assuming he was abused by a mentally ill woman, which certainly does happen, but is hardly as ubiquitous as the MRA types like to imply.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
167. I'm assuming something quite different about any abuse that would have happened in this chap's
Wed May 28, 2014, 10:10 PM
May 2014

past relationships, given his citation to anti-women hate sites and extreme rightwing views on divorce and his description of DU as "home of the shrill."

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
180. Home of the shrill?
Thu May 29, 2014, 07:08 AM
May 2014

Are you angry at all women, or just your abuser?

And: "Dont expect any sympathy for the male perspective here."

Really? Do you honestly believe that? If so, why are you a member of this forum?

(Calling feminists "shrill" is an example of misogyny...)

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
190. "Calling feminists "shrill" is an example of misogyny...) "
Thu May 29, 2014, 12:30 PM
May 2014

And calling people butt buddies is an example of homophobia.

IronLionZion

(45,465 posts)
108. Serious answer: the gender expectations are part of patriarchy
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:27 PM
May 2014

I'm a survivor of an abusive sociopath. It's not because of feminism, or equal opportunities, protections, and pay. It's because she seriously failed at human decency 101. Some deranged individuals just want to hurt people.



nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
168. +1
Wed May 28, 2014, 10:11 PM
May 2014

Of course there are far too many male DV victims - and I am genuinely sorry about what happened to you - but blaming that on "feminism" (even implicitly) is so far beyond disingenuous it scarcely deserves a response.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
173. I'm just another dude with an opinion. But I try to be as understanding and compassionate
Wed May 28, 2014, 11:00 PM
May 2014

as possible, or so I'd like to think. My occasional abrasiveness notwithstanding.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
127. Firstly MIRT, we've got a live one
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:49 PM
May 2014

Secondly this has flock all to do with misandry

Thirdly, I wonder who was doing the abusing in your marriage (if it existed)

Fourthly, that tale of false accusation has as much believability as the old "Honestly, officer, she tripped and fell downstairs!"

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
107. K & R and thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, redqueen!
Wed May 28, 2014, 03:23 PM
May 2014

Re "The slightest deviation from male and white centeredness is perceived as a profound loss of privilege. This is why with each tiny step that women and minorities take toward equality, the outcry of white and male supremacists about how "oppressed" white men are has been getting louder."

Does this EVER need to be said! And the louder and clearer and more often, the better.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
122. Re: banning the popcorn smiley. If there is one thing I would take a strong stand for
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:26 PM
May 2014

it would be for keeping the popcorn smiley.

I am truly outraged by even the mere suggestion!

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
153. Finally!!
Wed May 28, 2014, 09:21 PM
May 2014

Somebody gets it.

Banning the rofl smiley is also a problem. It can get you a hide. I don't know why.
Have some of mine, it's better.(because i'm a woman j/k)

treestar

(82,383 posts)
130. They are trying to pretend there is equality
Wed May 28, 2014, 04:56 PM
May 2014

So that every misogyny story must have a matching misandry story.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
135. Misandry does exist
Wed May 28, 2014, 06:02 PM
May 2014

but is pretty rare. I hang on a lot on "Fundies Say The Darnedest Things" and we occasionally have quotes submitted from whackadoodle extreme feminists that qualify as misandry. It's pretty rare though.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
137. kind of explains why some are so desperate to believe privilege doesn't exist!
Wed May 28, 2014, 06:08 PM
May 2014

Because if they don't hide it, maybe it will be taken away!

"The slightest deviation from male and white centeredness is perceived as a profound loss of ..... privilege."

Great OP- thank you!

Scott6113

(56 posts)
165. BTW I do agree
Wed May 28, 2014, 10:06 PM
May 2014

That men claiming oppression just because their level of privilege is diminished is obnoxious. It should be ridiculed. The point I was trying to make is that there is such a thing a male abuse. Just because it is more rare than other forms doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So this crying wolf about being a victim just because you're less of a victor makes it all the more difficult to use the term properly, and to treat it as an actual problem. Not as big as others, perhaps, but still there, still valid.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
176. I wish they would answer the question I keep asking.
Wed May 28, 2014, 11:25 PM
May 2014

Why is it that if a nonwhite nonmale group of people get rights, so many MRAs feel that they have to give their rights up for that to happen? It is not as if there are a limited number of rights to go around. There is no reason why everyone cannot have equal rights.

flashbang

(18 posts)
184. I'll try
Thu May 29, 2014, 09:42 AM
May 2014

...because the concept of water finding its level eludes them?

Some water molecules have brains. These brains think, while in the Clouds, "I shall always be a cloud, above those
waters down there. Me and my bro's just a floatin' around."

Then the hydrologic cycle kicks in.

"Oh. Well, at least I'm landing in the top of a mountain."

As they trickle to the expansive ocean ahead, they ride next to other water types. Some don't speak cloud boys language anymore.
Other have no memory of cloudiness. But they all speak of equality in a vast ocean, then taking another turn, maybe at a great height.
Cloud boy doesn't like this one bit. He's used to Above. He was made for Above. But he senses that his own desire is not as relevant to the other waters as he thinks it should be. He doesn't want to 'blend' into some big ocean where he's not unique. So he cries and cries.

In fact, he becomes so annoying that the Sun, sitting Above, hears him, contemplates his return to the top of the cycle, and burns him up for good.

His presence is not missed. He is not mourned.


So listen little cloud boys, 'the circle of life' might frighten you but fighting it just makes you sound childish and petty. People aren't going to stand aside so you can dominate the playground forever. The other children want a turn too.

And the Adults are not asking YOU to go down so much as RISING TO your 'level'. Got it? Cause I ain't got anymore dumb stories to explain basic chit you should've wrapped your head around when you turned 18. Denying the system is set up by and for white males is beyond cognitive dissonance. It's just a tantrum.






noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
195. scarcity mentality...privilege...selfish...narcissism...entitlement
Thu May 29, 2014, 03:03 PM
May 2014

Over-inflated sense of self-importance...sense of supetiority...and a deep sense of inferiority. just my guesses

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
199. In addition to the answers above, I'd like to mention access to women's bodies.
Fri May 30, 2014, 01:24 PM
May 2014

The reason some men get sucked into it is they enjoy sexual objectification and do not want to lose that perk.

 

The Traveler

(5,632 posts)
202. Is misandry a real phenomenon? Sure
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 03:19 AM
Jun 2014

At the age of 58 I have run into real, honest to gawd misandry 2, maybe 3 times. In that same period I have known hundreds of feminists. That would include my own mother and three sisters, who were certainly not guilty of misandry.

My point is that misandry is real, and if you look hard enough for it you will certainly find it operating somewhere. It is not influential, and it does not represent the views or feelings of the vast majority of women who are active in the effort to secure women's rights. Nor do I think you are afflicted with that particular issue, as others in this thread have implied. I find that absurd, actually.

Accusing feminists of misandry is a familiar conservative canard. Pretending that white male privilege does not operate in our society is silly, but equally familiar. And while I am white, and I am male, and I certainly feel pressured, neither women nor people of color bear any responsibility for my difficulties. Nor are my difficulties made worse by their achievement of equality. The effort to make me feel otherwise about it is real, though, and essential to those who have an interest in taking my eyes off the real problems, and the set of people who are really causing them.

Trav

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