Let me tell you about Men

[RobertEarl]

Since I are one.

Men are raised to be competitive. To be the winner. To do what ever it takes to be the 'King-of-the-Hill'. We treat each other sometimes as slaves. We lust to be heroes. We join armies.

This should come as no surprise to anyone. It has been this way for centuries. The only way to really change things is to begin with your son, your neighborhood, your friends.

It is too late for most men above the age of 30, they probably won't want to lose what they have won so far. They have followed their education and they are as Kings.

That's just the way it is.

[zappaman]

1. heh.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. We fought the Revolutionary War for a reason ... we were tired of Kings.

[unblock]

4. not really. we were tired of being ruled by what we came to feel was someone else's king.

there were some who wanted the new america to have its own king.

independence was the first priority; a representative democratic republic was the second.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. OK, I stand corrected.

[tkmorris]

3. Don't try to speak for men. Seriously, just don't

[RobertEarl]

7. Just history

Just factual. Not speaking for men, just about men. I see women do it all the time. Why shouldn't I?

[tkmorris]

19. There is opinion, and there is fact

The thingies in your OP are not facts.

[RobertEarl]

26. Yes they are facts

You wouldn't believe some of the things do to other men.

War is just the most obvious and deadly.

[seabeyond]

5. i too was raised to be competitive. to be a winner. hence, our head butting going on to be ruler

of the hill.

point being. competitiveness is no more yours, and a winner is no more yours, as sexual desire is no more yours.

and THIS is what you men are having issue with giving up ownership of. but the thing? it is an illusion to even kinda believe that you can have ownership over words like competitive, winner, sexual desire or any number of other characteristics that you see as yours.

and THAT is just the way it really... is.

[RobertEarl]

10. Hey, boys will be boys

They are raised that way. It is expected of them. Then there are those who take it to extremes. And that causes problems. No one is perfect.

[seabeyond]

18. yes boys will be boys and let me tell you about the boys that i see, being boys.

they know how to be respectful, even in disagreement. they are very capable of control. they have an awesome gift in reading, and languages and arts. my boys being boys have learned a graceful competitiveness that allowes them to be winners without being asses, that they learned from their mother. girls, being allowed to be girls.

they love to think. explore, understand and grow. my boys, being boys get that emotion is a human characteristic and being boys, that have been allowed to be boys have been able to define their masculinity thru their own needs and wants instead of society telling them what it is to be a boy

i know all about boys being boys

but that really has nothing to do with my post to you. telling you. that girls being girls equally own competitive and win and sex. it is not only for the boys.

but, boys being boys, my boys get that.

[a kennedy]

24. and I always hated that statement.....boys will be boys, indeed.

I'm hoping that way of raising boys is slowly changing..... *keeping fingers crossed*

[snooper2]

6. Did you know that men are more affected by the Fukushima radiation?

[Whisp]

8. They are not as Kings, privileged in ways others are not, yes,

but when told they are Kings from birth and things don't work like they were told it should, - they resent their 'subjects' for not 'obeying' like the latest shooter.

This grooming of 'King from Birth' bullshit and is the root cause of a lot of bad stuff. It can be seen in so many ways - how boys and girls are treated differently, how girls shouldn't compete with men because that makes them unfeminine, and scores of other examples.

[RobertEarl]

15. Yep

Some men lose it when they can't live up to the expectations dumped on them from birth. We do raise our children unequally. Sometimes extremely unequally.

[1000words]

9. ...

[AtheistCrusader]

47. The Drumhead.

That was an EXCELLENT episode. What he was just about to say is very good stuff.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie, as wisdom and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today...

Admiral Nora Satie: How dare you! You who consort with Romulans, invoke my father's name to support your traitorous arguments. It is an offense to everything I hold dear. And to hear those words used to subvert the United Federation of Planets. My father was a great man! His name stands for integrity and principle. You dirty his name when you speak it! He loved the Federation. But you, Captain, corrupt it. You undermine our very way of life. I will expose you for what you are. I've brought down bigger men than you, Picard!

And with that little outburst, she destroyed her own authority.

It was modeled perfectly on McCarthyism, and the show trials before Congress, red scare, etc. Salted with anti-Japanese American fears from WWII/Internment.
It applies to much more though.

[Iggo]

12. Teach your children well.

[Brother Buzz]

13. You just keep thinkin' Butch. That's what you're good at.

[bemildred]

14. All of my life people (some of them women) have been telling me "You have to compete."

And all of my life I've been ignoring them.

[RobertEarl]

45. I did it for a long time

I was king of my little hill. No one worked harder, produced more, drank more or argued better. My old best friend and i would compete like crazy.

Old age, reality and love of all things has mellowed me and made life a whole lot more enjoyable.

[bemildred]

49. Oh I've been there, had minions, etc., it was hard to avoid if you want any control.

And sometimes, of course, you do. But I'm an introvert, and I found it annoying, so I would quit after a couple years. Nevertheless, I know what you mean. In fact, without a good front, you get bullied. I was bullied.

One of the things I like best about being old is the fires get tamped down, so it is easier to keep them on a leash.

[RobertEarl]

53. Yes

Elders should be highly respected. Like us. <grin>

We made it through the bs and have, dare i say - evolved?

Too bad no one wants to listen to us, eh? <big grin>

[uppityperson]

16. That is true of some men but "Men" as a whole? pshaw.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. That's just the way it is. ...

That's just the way it is
Some things'll never change
That's just the way it is
Ha, but don't you believe them

Said, 'Hey little boy you can't go
Where the others go
Cause you don't look like they do'
Said, 'Hey, old man how can you stand
To think that way
Did you really think about it
Before you made the rules?'
He said, 'Son

That's just the way it is
Some things'll never change
That's just the way it is'
Ha, but don't you believe them

Well, they passed a law in '64
To give those who ain't got, a little more
But it only goes so far
'Cause the law don't change another's man mind
When all it sees at the hiring lime
Is the line on the color bar

That's just the way it is
Some things'll never change
That's just the way it is

[flamin lib]

20. Men are defined by our job and how well we do it. Promotions, raises and awards for how well we do

define us. When, at 55, I lost my job and couldn't find another in the same industry "they", whoever they were, took away from me everything that I was, everything that gave me value as a man. After 11 years as a househusband, diaper changer, cook and house cleaner I am FINALLY becoming comfortable with my life role and the value I bring to my family.

There is something wrong with that.

Our daughters need to be raised stronger and more confident and our sons need to raised exactly the same. Who you are is who you are and nobody should be defined by anyone outside themselves.

[RobertEarl]

41. Good for you.

Even better for your family. You don't let society define you.

[dilby]

21. Is this Nurture or Nature though?

I think men are born that way and it goes against nature to try and change it. It's like asking a gay person to be straight just because you feel it's societies norm.

[seabeyond]

23. i think competitiveness is a character. not a gender. nt

[dilby]

25. I digress I think it's ingrained in males and is an evolutionary trait.

It's something that will have to bred out and I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

[seabeyond]

32. so, ingrained in men and what a fake, false, made up, characteristic simply adopted by

girls... ??? cause males own it?

i do not in any way get what you are saying.

again. being born aggressive and competitive. participating in a highly competitive sport for two decades with a whole lot of other agressively competitive girls and young women, i have to wonder wtf you are talking about.

[LanternWaste]

44. What objective evidence leads you to conclude that this trait is ingrained in one sex...

What objective evidence leads you to conclude that this trait is ingrained in one sex yet not the other... or is that merely an article of faith on your part?

[dawg]

48. The thing about evolutionary traits is this:

Boys pretty much get half of theirs ..... from their Mom.

[GeorgeGist]

22. Speak for yourself.

You sound like a chump.

[RobertEarl]

30. See?

George there desires to be 'King-of-the-hill' . Proved my point. Thanks George.

[seabeyond]

33. lol lol. you are funny. a bit of this is tongue in cheek. right? cause you made me giggle. and

really... i gotta let this competitive thing going, adn get on with my day...

that was cute.

[HERVEPA]

36. No he didn't

He just pointed out the obvious.

[Nye Bevan]

27. Every so often a DUer makes a post that reveals an awful lot about them (nt)

[white_wolf]

28. Speaking as a man...

I am beyond glad that I am nothing like you describe nor are my male friends. Frankly, the men you know sound like assholes and I wouldn't want a damn thing to do with them.

[RobertEarl]

38. Heh

Presumptuously, presumptuous, presumptions, are ugly. I'm rather good looking myself.

But what i find myself thinking is that maybe you have a level of misandry you should evaluate?

[Leme]

29. I Really , really really do not mean this

but as I was pondering your words and the listening to Nilsson.. it came to me.
-
In Christian philosophy, men have always had the last word. Amen.

[Leme]

34. Also , Sidney Poitier sings about it in Lillies of The Feild

hey...Men hey...men heeey men hey..men Hey men hey men

[Leme]

37. hey men !!!

&feature=kp

[Cali_Democrat]

31. ROFL. nt

[Union Scribe]

35. This should be a weekly column

"Let me tell you about..." with your host, RobertEarl. You could teach us all about a new (well, not really new) topic each week, cleverly using cliches are sweeping generalizations to drive home hard hitting truths like "boys will be boys."

[Warpy]

39. Women have been raising strong and sensitive sons for millennia

When the sons hit puberty, the larger male culture takes over and all Mom's effort flies out the window. Given another 10-20 years, some men will revert. Others will not. A very few of them will sustain it but find it dangerous to admit in a group of other men.

So please don't tell women how to raise good sons. Tell your brethren to stop undermining our work.

[RobertEarl]

42. I will advice women any way i want

Thank you.

As for advising men, i have been nearly all my life. But you know how men are, you tell them they are messed up and they want to punch you. I'm not a physical fighter. So i back away after landing some Truth in their ears. I don't have the need to be king-of-the-hill. I leave that to mothers for they are most capable. And make the best kings, er, queens.

[MineralMan]

40. Uff da! nt

[AtheistCrusader]

43. Meh.

I'm in my 30's. Don't count me out just yet. I recognize the value of treating everyone else as an equal, a level playing field, and I work toward that goal.

[seabeyond]

46. a study showed, higher testosterone, the more fair play a man was into.... isnt that the opposite of

what men assume.

my father was always the fair player, on the top wrung. highly respected and an excellent example for me.

even though i am just a girl.

[RobertEarl]

50. DU is good for that, eh?

We get to see and read all aspects of life that are but fleeting moments on the playing field, but seen on DU one can take time to reflect upon and cogitate.

DU has helped me make progress. The diversity here makes for an amazing education.

[dawg]

51. I don't know. I've always been the sensitive, slacker type myself.

I've never understood the other dogs who want to line up and chase that fake rabbit round and round the track. That's not for me.

But I was born lucky. I've always had enough luck, smarts and money to get by.

[Half-Century Man]

52. That is certainly an interesting take on things.

I can't give credit to the "men are raised to be competitive" thing. Some men are competitive, some are not. Some women are competitive, some are not. Some left handed persons are competitive, some are not. Persons raised to be complacent, or subservient are competitive, if only in their group. In the "nurture vs nature" context, competitiveness is genetic.

The various sub-cultures in our society which stress the male competitiveness meme, generally have a....questionable tradition of bigotry, racism, and outright violence. As our civilization advances we recognize that many of our long standing traditions are based in bullshit. That whole "Divine Right of Kings" and "God-Kings" crap, traditions which lasted for most of human history, gradually fell apart over the centuries. The competitiveness is a sexual characteristic is bullshit and needs to be recognized as such.

I'll go as far as to say, one of the root causes of male violence very well could be the dissonance of being trained to be competitive by your sub-culture and not having the genetic disposition to do so. Those individuals lacking the emotional or intellectual stability to deal with the reality gap of what is and what he was trained should be; could blame the one he was trained he was superior to for not playing along with the program. Thus justifying any level of violence to right the perceived wrong.






Reading this over, I think I sound pretentious. I think I'm right, but.......

[seabeyond]

54. and i was gonna say.... hey half. have i ever told you how much i enjoy your posts... nt

[Half-Century Man]

56. Thank you.

Coming from one I respect, that means a lot.

[RobertEarl]

55. It's partly capitalism

We are raised to be competitive because in this society's financial system the most competitive have the most capital, all other things being equal.

As for your understanding of the 'interesting take'; You have shown much wisdom.

[zappaman]

57. says the guy who likes to "check out chicks since i am quite single and available."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=279013

okey dokey!

[MineralMan]

59. Chicks?

Baby chickens? I don't get it. Do you check those at a library or what?

[zappaman]

60. Yes, I do believe you are right!

Or maybe he is talking about Jack Chick and his tracts?

[MineralMan]

61. Jack Chick. Is there more than one, hence "chicks?" or

did someone leave off the apostrophe and the thing possessed?

[zappaman]

62. I know he had kids

so perhaps he is referring to the "Chick family"?

[MineralMan]

63. Ah. There you go.

But why would you either be checking out Chicks or wanting them to check you out? Ewww...

[MineralMan]

58. Leave off the "n" in "Men" and what you say may be accurate.

Leave it as written and you are writing nonsense. Just saying.

[GeorgeGist]

64. I read in your profile ...

Watch my footprint on this blue-ball and check out chicks since i am quite single and available.

Any chance you're a fan of Roosh?

[Common Sense Party]

65. Balderdash and nonsense, in my opinion.

But you believe what you wanna believe. Whatever gets you through the night.

[RobertEarl]

66. Heh.

Just because men are raised by society to be a certain way doesn't mean they become that. But the richest and most powerful are the best competitors with a desire to win and become kings. That's how they got rich, duh.

[randys1]

67. Nah, many inherit their wealth and the ones who create wealth are usually criminals

[RobertEarl]

68. Eh?

"... the ones who create wealth are usually criminals."

Farmers, metal workers, and those types, are criminals?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZttt, try again.