HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » because apparently some p...

Thu May 29, 2014, 02:57 PM

 

because apparently some people think this is up for debate

Based on a discussion with someone who claims the majority of the site agrees with him

simple question:

is it true, accurate, and right to say that "'no' means 'no'" or is this meme untrue, false bullshit.

And, yes, this is being debated, here, and has been for some time.
30 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
"no" always means "no"--it does not matter what the woman or man 'means' when they say 'no'
28 (93%)
the 'no means no' meme is bullshit--sometimes 'no' means 'yes'
2 (7%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

106 replies, 10786 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 106 replies Author Time Post
Reply because apparently some people think this is up for debate (Original post)
geek tragedy May 2014 OP
uppityperson May 2014 #1
Lurks Often May 2014 #2
seabeyond May 2014 #29
Lurks Often May 2014 #51
seabeyond May 2014 #54
Lurks Often May 2014 #57
seabeyond May 2014 #62
redqueen May 2014 #61
redqueen May 2014 #3
geek tragedy May 2014 #6
redqueen May 2014 #7
1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #26
geek tragedy May 2014 #36
thucythucy May 2014 #85
freshwest May 2014 #75
1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #76
freshwest May 2014 #77
gollygee May 2014 #4
closeupready May 2014 #5
geek tragedy May 2014 #8
closeupready May 2014 #9
geek tragedy May 2014 #11
Electric Monk May 2014 #12
geek tragedy May 2014 #16
Jim Lane May 2014 #102
geek tragedy May 2014 #103
Jim Lane May 2014 #104
Spider Jerusalem May 2014 #18
etherealtruth May 2014 #69
1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #28
bravenak May 2014 #81
William769 May 2014 #10
geek tragedy May 2014 #15
William769 May 2014 #17
seabeyond May 2014 #33
William769 May 2014 #40
seabeyond May 2014 #45
el_bryanto May 2014 #20
geek tragedy May 2014 #22
el_bryanto May 2014 #25
geek tragedy May 2014 #31
el_bryanto May 2014 #37
geek tragedy May 2014 #39
gollygee May 2014 #23
geek tragedy May 2014 #24
m-lekktor May 2014 #43
geek tragedy May 2014 #44
redqueen May 2014 #30
geek tragedy May 2014 #32
redqueen May 2014 #38
redqueen May 2014 #34
gollygee May 2014 #35
redqueen May 2014 #41
geek tragedy May 2014 #42
randys1 May 2014 #47
abakan May 2014 #84
uppityperson May 2014 #55
Sissyk May 2014 #63
uppityperson May 2014 #65
Sissyk May 2014 #67
geek tragedy May 2014 #66
uppityperson May 2014 #68
uppityperson May 2014 #71
geek tragedy May 2014 #72
uppityperson May 2014 #73
Donald Ian Rankin May 2014 #13
redqueen May 2014 #19
seabeyond May 2014 #14
uppityperson May 2014 #56
redqueen May 2014 #21
randys1 May 2014 #49
uppityperson May 2014 #58
freshwest May 2014 #74
ismnotwasm May 2014 #83
Louisiana1976 May 2014 #27
Gravitycollapse May 2014 #46
geek tragedy May 2014 #48
redqueen May 2014 #50
geek tragedy May 2014 #52
Gravitycollapse May 2014 #53
LadyHawkAZ May 2014 #60
one_voice May 2014 #88
Sissyk May 2014 #59
Iggo May 2014 #64
etherealtruth May 2014 #70
dickthegrouch May 2014 #78
MadrasT May 2014 #79
arcane1 May 2014 #82
Hosnon May 2014 #80
geek tragedy May 2014 #91
Trajan May 2014 #86
geek tragedy May 2014 #87
Trajan May 2014 #89
geek tragedy May 2014 #90
Nye Bevan May 2014 #94
dickthegrouch May 2014 #100
Jamastiene May 2014 #92
geek tragedy May 2014 #93
Jamastiene May 2014 #95
geek tragedy May 2014 #96
redqueen May 2014 #99
davidthegnome May 2014 #97
geek tragedy May 2014 #98
redqueen May 2014 #101
KamaAina May 2014 #105
geek tragedy May 2014 #106

Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:13 PM

1. kick to mark

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:17 PM

2. Correct 99.99% of the time

 

There are a small number of people in the bondage/submission lifestyle, that while in "scene" no doesn't mean no.

And yes I suppose I am being difficult since it doesn't really apply to the what the OP meant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurks Often (Reply #2)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:17 PM

29. actually. you are wrong. no does mean no. even if playing a game, there is a safe word... for no

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to seabeyond (Reply #29)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:42 PM

51. And now we're arguing semantics

 

Yes in bondage/submission play there is a safe word which when used means play stops and they are no longer in "scene", but it is not the actual word "No"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurks Often (Reply #51)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:48 PM

54. we are not starting with me. but. that is a fact. no does indeed mean no. even playing a game.

 

regardless what the word is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to seabeyond (Reply #54)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:51 PM

57. I essentially agreed with you

 

and you still want to argue. Have a nice day

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurks Often (Reply #57)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:54 PM

62. since it was an "essentially" i was not totally clear. and i was reiterating.

 

Have a nice day

i will. right back at you. making my Thursday, my Friday and ready to start a weekend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurks Often (Reply #51)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:53 PM

61. You're the one playing semantics. No means no. If certain people want to substitute a different word

for no, that doesn't suddenly change the basic concept being discussed here.

When a partner signals using words OR ACTIONS that they are not enjoying the experience, there is no grey area involved. There is no doubt at all.

No (or the substitute word for no ) means no.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:18 PM

3. Goddess, did he really say most here agree with him?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #3)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:22 PM

6. yes

 

I'm sure you two think you're smarter than your fellow DUers and they are in a lockbox with no access to the information in question with all of their critical thinking skills removed. I can assure you this is not the case, so for your own sake if nothing else you should stop pretending it is. Or don't. I can always use the chuckle.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:24 PM

7. Aha... See, I couldn't make heads or tails of that sentence.

In a lockbox?



Anyway no, I'm sure very few people agree with him that "the no means no meme is bullshit".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:13 PM

26. Please post a link to the thread ...

 

I need context ... Well, no I really don't; it's more like not being able to look away from what one knows is a horrific accident.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #26)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:21 PM

36. will pm you the link nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #36)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:18 PM

85. When you get the chance please PM me as well. Nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #26)

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:49 PM

75. I've noticed most of those posters come out late at night. Must feel lonely or bored...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to freshwest (Reply #75)

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:52 PM

76. Or the bars have all closed ...

 

and find themselves in the midst of another sexless night.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #76)

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:57 PM

77. Well, that was my first thought, too, but I didn't want to be accused of being a man-hating '___.'

Since I love 'em. But that talk makes it past Juries at DU now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:19 PM

4. Wow. How did I miss that.

I thought I'd seen all the threads about this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:20 PM

5. Um ... wat?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to closeupready (Reply #5)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:24 PM

8. earlier today was debating someone

 

who has gone on the record with the exact quote "the no means no meme is bullshit" and was defending that claim today

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:33 PM

9. That's what I was afraid of - people on this board these days

 

really can make this board suck. It's becoming too right-wing for me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to closeupready (Reply #9)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:42 PM

11. this person is a host of two groups/forums and has over 14K posts nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:43 PM

12. Ah, so this is a thinly veiled callout thread. Why not include a link too while you're at it? nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Electric Monk (Reply #12)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:55 PM

16. the person claimed I was insulting the intelligence of

 

DUers by disagreeing with him.

I'm sure you two think you're smarter than your fellow DUers and they are in a lockbox with no access to the information in question with all of their critical thinking skills removed. I can assure you this is not the case, so for your own sake if nothing else you should stop pretending it is. Or don't. I can always use the chuckle.


This is just to take the temperature to see who is actually more inline with community standards



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #16)

Fri May 30, 2014, 01:42 PM

102. If your purpose is "to see who is actually more inline with community standards" then I'm with you

 

I nevertheless passed on the poll because there are different interpretations of "'No' means 'no'" and I don't want to be understood as endorsing all of them. For example, although it's clear that "No" means one may not proceed with doing something that requires consent, I don't agree with some people here that "No" also means that one may never continue the conversation to seek to obtain consent. Of course, that in turn doesn't mean that one may always in all circumstances continue the conversation.

In short, there's just too much nuance for me to feel comfortable choosing between a blanket unqualified endorsement and a dismissal as "bullshit".

In the context in which it most often arises, however, "'No' means 'no'" is correct, so you're entitled to count me as being on your side for purposes of assessing community sentiment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jim Lane (Reply #102)

Fri May 30, 2014, 01:53 PM

103. I myself don't think no necessarily means discussion over.

 

just like yes doesn't mean the matter is settled either.

people are free to change their minds, and consent is a state of mind, but 'no' does mean 'no further' until that no is withdrawn

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #103)

Fri May 30, 2014, 02:43 PM

104. I agree with your interpretation, but not everyone here does.

 

I'm tempted to start a poll that would explore some of the nuances I mentioned. Unfortunately, however, in the current state of DU, I have to conclude that such a poll would generate more heat than light.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:02 PM

18. The "host" coupled with the quote gave me a good idea who you meant...and...

account currently flagged for review. (Whether over this or some of his other recent comments, one can only guess.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #18)

Thu May 29, 2014, 06:24 PM

69. Sadly, I knew exactly who had said that (without actually reading it)

If I can identify a poster simply by sick content it has got to be bad

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to closeupready (Reply #9)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:17 PM

28. No ...

 

I (and Bravenak) hold that honor because I/we insist on talking about/pointing out privilege. A Duer told me/us that directly.

But I worked hard to gain that distinction and will not/do not take being stripped of that, lightly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #28)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:07 PM

81. Badge of honor.nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:35 PM

10. Un fucking believable!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to William769 (Reply #10)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:52 PM

15. was a debate over this quote from an author:

 

While the label “date rape” has helped women articulate the most dramatic aspect of dating from women’s perspective, men have no labels to help them articulate the most traumatic aspects of dating from their perspective. Now, of course, the most traumatic aspect is the possibility of being accused of date rape by a woman to whom he thought he was making love. If men did label the worst aspects of the traditional male role, though, they might label them “date robbery,” “date rejection,” “date responsibility,” “date fraud,” and “date lying.” The worst aspect of dating from the perspective of many men is how dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom – the social custom of him taking money out of his pocket, giving it to her, and calling it a date. To a young man, the worst dates feel like being robbed and rejected. Boys risk death to avoid rejection (e.g., by joining the Army) Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape If a man ignoring a woman’s verbal “no” is committing date rape, then a woman who says “no” with her verbal language but “yes” with her body language is committing date fraud. And a woman who continues to be sexual even after she says “no” is committing date lying.

Do women still do this? Two feminists found the answer is yes. Nearly 40 percent of college women acknowledged they had said “no” to sex even “when they meant yes.” In my own work with over 150,000 men and women – about half of whom are single – the answer is also yes. Almost all single women acknowledge they have agreed to go back to a guy’s place “just to talk” but were nevertheless responsive to his first kiss. Almost all acknowledge they’ve recently said something like “That’s far enough for now,” even as her lips are still kissing and her tongue is still touching his. We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting. Somehow, women’s romance novels are not titled He Stopped When I Said “No”. They are, though, titled Sweet Savage Love, in which the woman rejects the hand of her gentler lover who saves her from the rapist and marries the man who repeatedly and savagely rapes her. It is this “marry the rapist” theme that not only turned Sweet Savage Love into a best-seller but also into one of women’s most enduring romance novels. It is important that a woman’s “noes” be respected and her “yeses” be respected. And it is also important when her nonverbal “yeses” (tongues still touching) conflict with those verbal “noes” that the man not be put in jail for choosing the “yes” over the “no.” He might just be trying to become her fantasy.


the person was defending the author and his claims, I was calling the author a rape apologist misogynist swine.

the author is very popular in one particular group here, btw, you'll never guess which one

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #15)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:59 PM

17. There are a couple to choose from.

What part of no is not understood? How can there be a fucking misunderstanding? I'll stop here before I gey myself into trouble.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to William769 (Reply #17)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:19 PM

33. I'll stop here before I get myself into trouble.

 

awesome control you have

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to seabeyond (Reply #33)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:24 PM

40. Years and years of dealing with assholes

Have taught me when to strike and when to just wait for that right moment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to William769 (Reply #40)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:29 PM

45. .......

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #15)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:04 PM

20. there is a potentially interesting discussion of the interesection of art (particularly cinema) and

gender; but I suspect that this discussion wasn't that. Particularly if he's arguing that no sometimes means yes within this context.

A lot of romance movies are about someone trying to turn a "no" into a "yes." But that ranges from more or less completely innocent sequences of romantic courtship up to, well, The Fountainhead or rape porn.

Bryant

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to el_bryanto (Reply #20)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:05 PM

22. sure, but that's not inconsistent with 'no means no'

 

when a person starts talking about "a man shouldn't go to jail" a certain line has been crossed

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #22)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:09 PM

25. Nods - I guess I'm thinking along those lines because of Andrew O'Herir's article

about this earlier this week, from Salon.

One or two or five movies in which a Seth Rogen or Jon Favreau type wins the devotion of a young woman who resembles a Victoria’s Secret model might be winsome romances, but any regular moviegoer recognizes the pattern, which we see repeated by the dozen. Rodger’s disturbing final video expressed what Hornaday calls “the toxic double helix of insecurity and entitlement that comprises Hollywood’s DNA,” a symbolic universe “whose escapist fantasies so often revolve around vigilantism and sexual wish-fulfillment.” Rodger felt himself barred from the latter fantasy, so he indulged in the former.

So I'm not the world's greatest fan of Romance movies but I've enjoyed them off and on over the years (along with Musicals) but there certainly are some issues with them as well.

Bryant

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to el_bryanto (Reply #25)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:18 PM

31. Rogen and Favreau are probably bad examples

 

their real-life wives are as conventionally attractive, if not more, than their on-screen wives

if one wants to know why that dynamic of the schlubby guy with the gorgeous wife exists in screenplays so often, look at who writes screenplays

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #31)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:21 PM

37. yep - well like i say there's a longer discussion to be had here

About the relationship of movies/TV to mythology - what role do they play in helping us make sense of a chaotic world? And is that a beneficial or negative role (almost certainly both)?

Bryant

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to geek tragedy (Reply #15)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:08 PM

23. "Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape." ??????

Wait, hold it. Does that mean this author thinks that buying someone dinner and having her not want sex is equivalent to rape?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #23)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:09 PM

24. yes, outside of MRA misogynist circles this author is reviled. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #24)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:26 PM

43. sounds like Warren Farrell

that guy is a fucking creep.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to m-lekktor (Reply #43)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:27 PM

44. ding ding ding!

 

Warren Farrell has his fans at DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #23)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:17 PM

30. Yes. A few people here used to go on and on about how the president asked him to

head a new Department of Men and Boys or something.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #30)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:19 PM

32. a claim that was found only at the person's eponymous website nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #32)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:22 PM

38. Surely it's true! If you can't trust a rape and pedophilia apologist then who can you trust?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #23)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:19 PM

34. I think his comments about "family sex" (his euphemism for incest) are even worse. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #34)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:20 PM

35. Ack!!

Luckily, this is not an author with whom I am acquainted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #35)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:24 PM

41. I heard of him when someone posted an OP about his book - The Myth of Male Power.

It was an eye-opening day for sure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #35)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:25 PM

42. do a google search for: date rape date fraud exciting

 

(yeah, I know)

there will be a name that appears.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #23)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:33 PM

47. I was reading that too and this person is sick and demented, surely hope NOBODY on this forum

and I mean NOT ONE, agrees with that bullshit

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gollygee (Reply #23)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:15 PM

84. Don't Pay! If you think dinner means more than dinner.

It does not mean if you give me food, I have a debt to you I must pay for by allowing you use my body, whether I want to or not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #15)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:50 PM

55. "We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud,we called it excitin"?

Last edited Thu May 29, 2014, 05:22 PM - Edit history (1)

w.t.f.

"He might just be trying to become her fantasy."

Talk it out first, find out if it is her "fantasy" to be raped before ignoring what she says and assuming you know better "because".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uppityperson (Reply #55)

Thu May 29, 2014, 05:04 PM

63. uppity, can you pm me with a link where that comes from?

I'd really like to read it before passing judgement.

I don't mean that you haven't because you obviously are posting what you read. Plus, I know you better than that. lol!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sissyk (Reply #63)

Thu May 29, 2014, 05:15 PM

65. I had it, closed it, let me see what I can find. Dang, can't find it. eta

I did a search on what was upthread in this post, got the original somewhere.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025020015#post15

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uppityperson (Reply #65)

Thu May 29, 2014, 05:43 PM

67. Thanks, uppity!

I appreciate it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to geek tragedy (Reply #66)

Thu May 29, 2014, 06:10 PM

68. ugh. It reminds me of an ex who warned me about what to expect, re-entering the dating scene

From your link
When a woman agrees to a date, she does not make a choice to be sexual, but she does make a choice to explore sexual possibilities. The woman makes no such choice with a stranger or an acquaintance. (


If I went to a movie with a man, I had agreed to have sex with him.
If I went to supper with a man, I had agreed to have sex with him.
If I had coffee with a man and paid for only my coffee, sex was optional, but if I paid for him, I agreed to have sex.

It was appalling hearing this from someone I'd spent a lot of time with, but verified my decision to make him an ex. I laughed in his face and told him he was the one missing the point of movie (to watch a movie together), supper (to have a meal together) or coffee (to socialize with each other while drinking coffee).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #15)

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:15 PM

71. was that from July 2012 post as search gave me a post by him then with this in it, or more recent?

If it was from that 2 years ago post, I would also like to see more recent opinions if possible. Thank you.

As far as the author that wrote what you have excerpted, YUCK!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uppityperson (Reply #71)

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:16 PM

72. will pm you.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #72)

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:17 PM

73. thanks. I am willing to give people a chance to update opinions and appreciate seeing them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:45 PM

13. "No means no" is easy. What "yes" means is sometimes easy, but sometimes hard. N.T.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #13)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:03 PM

19. Well said. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 03:46 PM

14. no means no. and if a yes cause she is cowardly and cannot walk beyond the societal structures that

 

shame her and her sexuality when she is really wanting it. enough nos meaning no will convince her more than anything to bravely say... i want.

problem solved.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to seabeyond (Reply #14)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:50 PM

56. yup. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:05 PM

21. Oh, look who else says no sometimes means yes:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #21)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:35 PM

49. What ridiculous site is that, I feel dirty now

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #21)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:51 PM

58. Women RESPECT being raped. good god

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #21)

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:46 PM

74. Oh, lookee! He's got a book! And a website! And he lives abroad! What cool beans! PM?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #21)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:10 PM

83. Ew

Yet somehow, when it’s all said and done, the woman is invariably happy that I didn’t listen to a single word of protest she uttered; that I barreled through her resistance nonchalantly and drove the ball to the basket. Women RESPECT this sexual insistence even if they aren’t acutely aware of it.


Sounds like rape to me. What a piece of shit

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:16 PM

27. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:32 PM

46. It is an irrelevant question, really...

What should be asked is not whether the person meant no but whether the person said no. When someone says no, you stop. You don't try and interpret an underlying meaning. Even in the one in a billion chance the person says no but means yes, you stop. And if they get mad, which again is incredibly unlikely, you explain to them the importance of being honest in that situation.

I realize this may be semantic. But I just don't want someone strolling in here trying to argue that some women just like the fight or something disgusting like that. It is not a matter of interpretation. Never try and interpret a no.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #46)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:33 PM

48. exactly, there is no interpretation to be done when a no has been spoken nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #46)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:36 PM

50. But do continually reevaluate apparent consent.

Sometimes people might actually be afraid to say no.

If they become hesitant, if they aren't participating fully, if they pull back at all, stop and talk. Ask if they're ok, if they want to continue, if they enjoy what is happening.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #50)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:43 PM

52. which is excellent advice to avoid being a selfish, lousy lover

 

even aside from consent issues

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #50)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:44 PM

53. Absolutely. You put it perfectly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #46)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:52 PM

60. Yep. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #46)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:00 PM

88. This..

What should be asked is not whether the person meant no but whether the person said no. When someone says no, you stop. You don't try and interpret an underlying meaning. Even in the one in a billion chance the person says no but means yes, you stop


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 04:52 PM

59. Well, I ASSUME you mean the one member that picked option 2?

I haven't seen a single member that doesn't think "no means no". Could you give us a hint at least to the thread so we can look it up and strongly disagree with them?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 05:06 PM

64. No always means Stop.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 06:28 PM

70. Oh for Pete's sake NO means NO

It doesn't mean "yes", it doesn't mean "maybe" .... I am completely disgusted by this

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 07:59 PM

78. If 'no' always meant 'no', we'd never ask a second time

How long one waits to ask again, or how one behaves on receiving the no answer is critical.

We ALL of us ask the question multiple ways or see if the answer might really be 'maybe' rather than 'no' before giving up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #78)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:02 PM

79. "Maybe" is not good enough.

Enthusiastic "yes" should be the criteria for every sexual encounter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #78)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:08 PM

82. Speak for yourself.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:04 PM

80. Posting this poll is flame bait.

It's like complaining that people don't use the qualifer "not all" when talking about men.

Unless you have evidence that this is actually (and even remotely) a question on DU...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hosnon (Reply #80)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:05 PM

91. several people have endorsed the work of an author who has made that claim.

 

this author is very popular in a certain user group at DU.

including the person who was insisting that I was insulting the intelligence of DUers by stating that said author was a rape apologist pig.

do a site search for "warren farrell" throw in terms like "date rape date fraud exciting family sex man nonverbal yeses not jail


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:32 PM

86. This question presumes an act had been perpetrated

 

No always means no, but it doesn't mean you can't keep asking the question ...

It's up to the parties involved to determine when merely ASKING the question has exceeded their own limits of tolerance ...

No always means no ... but minds can be changed ...

Until YES has been clearly uttered, then no sexual act may commence ... That doesn't mean the door for charming persuasion has been closed ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trajan (Reply #86)

Thu May 29, 2014, 08:59 PM

87. of course. no means no until the person says yes.

 

but, there is a difference between no not now and no get the fuck away from me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #87)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:02 PM

89. That option ...

 

... was not in the poll ....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trajan (Reply #89)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:04 PM

90. both are subsumed under "no means no" nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trajan (Reply #86)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:49 PM

94. The word "YES" does not always have to be "clearly uttered".

Certainly, no means no. But I think most of us understand that there are many, many ways to give consent nonverbally.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trajan (Reply #86)

Fri May 30, 2014, 12:26 PM

100. Thanks, that's what I was trying to convey /nt

Last edited Fri May 30, 2014, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:40 PM

92. In another thread, I just saw someone actually post that if anything bad happens

to a woman, it was basically her fault. That her victim-hood was self made if she didn't walk on eggshells, basically. Someone got misandried apparently?

The amount of bullshit here just keeps getting deeper and deeper. We are up to our necks in misogynists here lately.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jamastiene (Reply #92)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:44 PM

93. really? sure it wasn't snark?

 

not that it's not believable, given the shit we read here

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #93)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:58 PM

95. Yes, I'm sure it wasn't snark.

It was awful.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jamastiene (Reply #95)

Thu May 29, 2014, 09:59 PM

96. we'lll see if the other misogynist pigs are over at discussionist or whether they're

 

here to bail their fellow swine out

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jamastiene (Reply #92)

Thu May 29, 2014, 10:18 PM

99. Wow. And a jury voted to leave it. I'd like to see the results.

there are ways to safe guard yourself if you dont feel safe walking home get a cab afraid someone might spike your punch dont go out/leave without a friend. afraid to be alone in a room with someone you just met why would you do that anyway. fundamentalists tell their men crap well you know not to date a fundamentalist man. these victim scenarios you describe are self made

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu May 29, 2014, 10:04 PM

97. Okay.

I'd like to see a thread where this poster is arguing that point. Do you have a link?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidthegnome (Reply #97)

Thu May 29, 2014, 10:12 PM

98. do a site/google search for this phrase:

 

"the no means no meme is bullshit"

the exact phrase from the poll

that viewpoint has advocates in a very unsurprising group

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidthegnome (Reply #97)

Fri May 30, 2014, 01:07 PM

101. Did you find it yet? Got anything else to say? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Fri May 30, 2014, 02:45 PM

105. Um, you two, you do realize that we can see who you are

 

with the Show Usernames function, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KamaAina (Reply #105)

Fri May 30, 2014, 03:02 PM

106. "the no means no meme is bullshit" = a direct quote from a DUer nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread